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Can Sony Convince the World?
Gamasutra's regular feature asking a question of the game development community is back. This week's question cuts to the heart of the reporting from the Tokyo Game Show: Can Sony Convince Us it is Still Dominant?. From the article: "All that Sony needs to do is stop acting so arrogant. People can forgive any number of faults if the company generally acts responsible for their mistakes. When the PSP came out and people complained about the square buttons getting stuck and not being as responsive as the other buttons, Sony said 'There may be people that complain about its usability, but that's something which users and game software developers will have to adapt to.' We have to adapt to their broken button... Comedic at best. When everyone said the price of the PS3 was rather high, Sony told everyone that 'people will buy it no matter what.' What do they say about PCs? 'The PlayStation 3 is a computer. We do not need the PC.' - Dave Fried, The Collective"
That would require Sony to still be dominant. In the videogame market, it was observed some time ago that both Microsoft and Sony expected everyone to buy a Wii. After the sluggishness of the disc format wars and our good old friend the DRM CD fiasco, I don't think too many people who keep up on the PR are fond of them. The PS3's Linuxishness might pay off with the OSS crowd, though. Also, they lack innovativeness. :O
I think it is POSSIBLE for them to pull their act together. Are they going to do it? I have no clue. I have honestly never seen a company seemingly TRYING to hamstring themselfs before this.
They have tacken 2 steps i nthe proper directions:
1) The inclussion of HDMI on all PS3s is a very good idea in my mind. You now have a BluRay player for $500 that is not crippled. The expanded HD does not seem like that much of a wory. The loss of WiFi? Mehh. No card reader? I dono, does it really do much? (I honestly don't remember).
Now they just need to make the price not suck AS much, right?
2) Droping the price of the core system in Japan.
They caught on that the Japanese didn't like the price, and mabey they will catch on that Americans (and the rest of the world) don't like $500 as a price point either.
Though, I will admit that $500 is almost an acceptable budget for a system to me, however that is b/c I am ussed to dropping $500+ when ever I upgrade my computer...
Note: I will never buy a PS3 untill the price comes down to around the $200 range. I will buy a Wii, but that is b/c it seems like it is honestly inovative. the PS3 is a replacement for my computer as a gaming platform? I will pass, you can pry my trackball from my cold dead hands.
Do Or Do Not, There Is No Spoon, There Is Only Zuul. Everything in the above post is probably opinion.
You gave it your best shot for the past year with your Sony and PS3 tirades, FUD, snide commentaries.
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All realtime PS3 titles:
http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748483/vids_1.
http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=2628
http://www.level5.co.jp/products/shirokishi/index
http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748488/vids_1.
http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748480/vids_1.
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/733/733921p1.html
The PS3 is just over a month away from hitting the shelves in the US and Japan. Both pricepoint versions now have HDMI standard.
Give the console world a rest and let all of us enjoy the next month in peace. If that means you have to go throw yourself on your bed and have a good cry, please do so. It's time to move on Zonk.
Seriously... come on guys. I personally plan to wait until all 3 consoles are out for a while, then see if one (or maybe more) have the games, and features I want. Maybe Sony will give me what I want, and I'll be willing to pay them for it - maybe they won't.
MS has failed to impress me with the 360 and their game line up thus far. To be honest though I am hopeful / excited about the Wii, but you never know it might turn out to be a turd. Point is there is so much smoke and mirrors, and hype around console launches it's stupid to speculate and get all worked up about every half baked press release and "insider speculation".
Can Sony Convince the World?
No.
I'll admit I'm biased, but since it's the entire world we're talking about....
I have nothing to say.
TFA is quite right - Sony execs have been too full of themselves for too long, and it's hurt them again and again. My favorite arrogant Sony moment was a rather infamous interview that Sony did in boot magazine about how Vaio systems were about to conquer the desktop market, because Sony had realized that Moore's law needed to "be thrown out the window" and consumers really just needed high-margin, overdesigned PCs that did what big manufacturing companies like Sony wanted them too. The new Vaio desktops were then launched, immediately bombed, and within a month of the magazine hitting the stands Sony had publicly announced that it was going to be scaling back its desktop line and being just another PC manufacturer, instead of conquering the world with the Vaio concept.
"When everyone said the price of the PS3 was rather high, Sony told everyone that 'people will buy it no matter what."
Well, the price is the price... Sony clearly doesn't want to lose money on the console like Microsoft does with the XBOX.
While there's some valid points here, Sony not bending over backwards every which way for the customer doesn't mean that they're "arrogant," but rather that they for some reason choose to make the PS3 a profitable venture.
People want Playstations. That is it. Look at the sales number difference between the Ps2, and the Xbox. The Xbox is superior to the PS2 in every way, but it still sells FAR less than the PS2. People buy brands, and I think that is far more true today, than it was in the past. The PS3 could still be screwed up, but I don't ever want to underestimate the stupidity of the average consumer.
The Playstation 3 will certainly have a number of exclusive games. It will simply not have the number of exclusive games that the Playstation 2 had. Previously, if a developer wanted to make a game for a single console, PS2 was the optimal one. There are 100 million PS2s out there and less than half that number of Xboxes and Gamecubes combined. Look at the number of games which were only released on the PS2. It made a lot of sense because there was a very large install base.
With the very high price of the PS3 (which Sony appears to be cutting before launch), a lot of developers will hedge their bets with a dual release on the PS3 AND Xbox 360. The Wii's unique controller scheme will prevent direct ports, but the low cost of development should mean more third party developer interest. Now Sony will have to pay for exclusivity, opposed to having the default console.
Even if Sony cuts the price of the PS3 quickly, a lot of the damage has already been done. Many developers who would have created PS3 exclusive games have started Xbox 360 development in parallel. There are a lot of games that will be produced for the Wii on the chance that it takes the dominant position in Japan away from the Playstation brand.
Does anyone honestly believe that there will be 100 million PS3s out there in 2012 and only 50 million Xbox 360s and Wiis combined?
I think understanding their history is important. The arrogance didn't come from no-where. Each of these is a survivor from a very uncertain start and emerged victorious after bruising competition. This rather naturally makes the managers somewhat self-satisfied and complacent. And sows the seeds of their subsequent demise.
In a sense, all victories are Pyrrhic.
Joe Gamer doesn't care about E3 press releases, or some interview at the (insert city) Game Show. He knows his PS2 kicks ass and he heard from a buddy that the PS3 is coming out this year.
"Woah! I gotta get that!" he says...
That is what the average gamer is thinking. Sony is proving themselves to be arrogant and is completely shooting themselves in the foot...but maybe not to thier detriment.
The PS3 will sell out at lauch. There is no question Sony will sell a ton of systems - but I think it is overdelivering the goods. I feel the same way about Xbox, but at least they aren't shoving HD-DVD down everyone's throat.
The Wii is going to be the best choice for right now - the PS3 or Xbox are the right choice in about - oh, $300 worth of price drops...which should take enough time to ensure that most folks have some kind of high-def tv.
Yeah, some people want PlayStations, others want games only available on the PS2 (Square-Enix games for example), and some others also have an investment that's worthless without replacing their PS2... It seems that the PS2 sales numbers are quite misleading due to the fact that so many current PS2 purchases are people replacing their broken PS2s, not "new" users. If you've invested a few hundred (or thousand) dollars in your PS2 and it doesn't work anymore, as much as you may not want to purchase a same name replacement due to your experience, you've already spent so much on the games and peripherals that it's not worth it to switch. Of the 11 people I know who purchased a PS2 at launch, 8 of them have had to replace their systems over the past 3 years. For the average consumer there is definitely a good amount of brand purchasing though, look at the iPod or RAZR (or an ungodly number of other products). I definitely agree there. But, for every PS2 owner I know, I also know an XBOX owner... and to tell you the truth a good number of those people own both actually. ;)
ART on dA
Actually, both Peter Moore of Microsoft and Phil Harrison of Sony had various words of praise for the Wii. Peter's was more like an endorsement than Phil's, but if everyone buys the Wii as their second console, then it is the #1 player over all.
Most sensible people would have to be disappointed with Sony's recent shenanigans, obv. But given that they're launching just before Christmahanukkwanza, with a relatively small number of units, the alternative would be to hand the profit over to the eBay scalpers. When serious volumes are available next year, they'll drop in price quickly for sure. Anyone who doesn't wait till then is either rich or desperate.
"Be light, stinging, insolent and melancholy"
Yes, I want a PlayStation, but I still believe I'll be getting far more out of the Wii. I've got the 360, and I'm going to get the PS3. I don't want to miss out on any games that will remain exclusive to any console, that's the only reason. I'll still be playing the Wii for 90% of the games, and the other two for whatever Final Fantasy or Gran Turismo or GTA exclusive games they have, and that's it. If I was only planning on getting one console, it would most definitely be the Wii. I'd probably still want a PlayStation, but not as much as I want a Wii.
Twinstiq, game news
Sony's dropping the price of the PS3 to $410 six months AFTER they should have dropped it to $399 is a day late and a dollar short.
They've already lost not just mindshare - of hardcore and midcore gamers - they've lost Developer mindspace, as many have already rejigged their games to make sure they now are releasing Wii games.
They still have games that cost $10 extra than what a Wii game does.
They still have an overly FPS and Sports focus that gives them no growth areas, while the Wii is expanding into uncharted territory and even importing Japanese and Chinese games into Euro and US markets.
They still have the DRM and Blu-Ray mentality that just makes everyone want to do something else - anything else - to avoid them.
So, no, they can't convince the world.
Will they break even? No. They've already lost a lot on this, and they know it - had to scale back shipments as a result. They may even make number 1 in Japan - due to loyalty factors of Japanese gamers, but they are more likely to place number 2 or hold neck and neck with Nintendo.
They've damaged their ability in both Europe and the US to do better than number 2.
And, unlike Microsoft, they don't have billions of US dollars in free cash sitting around to bleed out for decades to come.
I doubt they're dead, but they're not going to win this platform round - the best they can hope for is a stalemate and aim for a turnaround in late 2007 and 2008.
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I think you've hit on Sony's real problem: I don't care about any of the games being released now. Can the PS3 survive long enough for the games I actually want to play to make it out on it?
I agree, the problem is that there's nothing there to excite us. All the exciting games are either Nintendo Wii or they're cross-platform and thus mean we can play Sim: Island on the Wii and Spore on the Wii just as easily as on the PS3.
Trying to keep the cool Japanese games out of the Euro and US markets is the problem - not a good strategy. Pointing out that one is dropping the price in Japan while not dropping it in the US and Europe just makes us madder.
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Sony's arrogance is a problem, but I think its history precedes it. After the PS2 launch, there were many, many reports of problems with the PS2, and I don't believe they ever got DVD playback down pat. Even outside of the PS2, Sony has done a lot of things in the past year or two that turn (knowledgable) consumers off from Sony products- the rootkit fiasco has made me very anti-Sony products, to the point that I've passed up things that were exactly as I needed just because they were made by Sony. So, in my case, and others I have talked to, the decision to skip the PS3 was made before the real details were even announced.
This time around, people are going to be wary about buying a $500 system that could break as easily as the PS2 did, and so far BluRay has not taken the world by storm like the DVD did, so having an included player isn't as much of an enticement.
Sony not only has to tone down (and maybe even apologize) for the arrogance, but they will need to make amends for their previous stunts, as well, before the informed consumer will welcome them back into their home.
Are we asking the Slashdot crowd or the world?
The PS2 is still outselling the XBox 360. The PS2 still held an extremely dominating lead over Microsoft and Nintendo combined, even though both had arguably superior hardware. Nintendo was cheaper and Microsoft had Live. Still Sony dominated.
Sony is promising a Live-like service, but allowing to play multiplayer online for free. They will have the best hardware. They will have a huge launch in Japan. They have tons and tons of third-party support. They still have plenty of huge exclusive franchises.
The Slashdot crowd speaks daily of Sony's evils. Yet it is Nintendo, not Sony who cut back on the features of their console launch. Wii is $50 more expensive than promised, and still doesn't have DVD support. One of it's biggest features is the ability to purchase again titles we've already purchased multiple times before. Nintendo promised region-free, and then canned that.
Sony in comparison, is going region-free and said they will support Linux and homebrew development. $500 for a PS3 with BluRay, a HDD, HDMI, more processing power, native 1080p and free online pay vs. a $400 XBox with no high-def movie player, no HDMI, weaker processing power, upscaling, and paying for online play? Suddenly, the price does seem considerably more reasonable. Over the course of the console's life, you'll pay the extra $100 in XBox Live fees.
I think Microsoft and Nintendo will offer heavy competition, but especially now that Sony is offering HDMI on the low-end system, and is talking about dropping their price, I have little doubt that they will once again dominate this generation.
Mind you, I buy each console, and I'm no fanboi. But the facts are that Sony has been EXTREMELY dominant, and despite the elite geek crowd turning their nose up at Sony, the masses still seem to love them. Conversely, you hear alot on the Net about Nintendo love, but other than handhelds, their home console division has steadily declined ever since the days of the NES. The opinions you read about online do not necessarily represent the actual masses.
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NT
All I mainly play aside from the few games on my Mac (Diablo 2 and Starcraft) and my Nintendo DS (Tetris DS, Animal Crossing: Wild World, Metroid Pinball, etc) is Zelda and Metroid. Only Nintendo can offer me that. I'm getting a Wii for sure (already pre-ordered), the only thing I have to choose is the color (I'm thinking black, like my Gamecube, though my Nintendo DS is white...).
Dead or Alive Xtreme 2 (Xbox 360) looks promising (nice, uh, graphics...) and so far no announced title for the PS3 appeals to me. As someone once said, "the greatest computer in the world is useless without software to run on it". The same goes for game consoles. As for the whole "HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray" or even Wii vs Xbox360/PS3, I don't plan on upgrading my 36" CRT TV for at least 3-4 years (if not more) so HD is not a concern for me.
"Trying to keep the cool Japanese games out of the Euro and US markets is the problem"
From what's been said the PS3 games aren't going to be restricted by region, so you should be able to order Japanese games and play them in EU or NA.
From what's been said the PS3 games aren't going to be restricted by region, so you should be able to order Japanese games and play them in EU or NA.
...
Should be and are is not the same. Sure, if Sony got it's act together and realized why Nintendo was eating Sony's shorts, they could get a clue stick and kill their region-encoded games they've been pushing, and not be so DRM-heavy, but the reality is they rely on region-encoding far more than Nintendo is planning to be.
Nintendo got a ride on the non-DRM clue train and decided that there were vast untapped markets in the US for formerly Japan-only games - Sony is watching the clue train go by, but showing no signs of jumping on board. They're too high and mighty to do that
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Awsome.
being the Nintendo fanboy I am I am happy to actualy see this to be true!
Viva La Revo^H^H^H^HWii!
Do Or Do Not, There Is No Spoon, There Is Only Zuul. Everything in the above post is probably opinion.
Not sure what exactly you are trying to say - guessing you are a rabbit frothing at the mouth fan boy.
It has been said over and over there will be NO region restrictions on games with the PS3. I don't recall hearing anything about region restrictions being on, or off for the Wii. Either way we aren't going to know until November what either system really delivers so why don't was save the out of the ass speculation until then.
2 parter, read both or skip to the one that applies to you (if it does).
...the PS3 will still be a major player this coming generation.
Doom a Gloomers about the PS3, you're wrong. Sony's arrogant, sure. Sony's PR is equatable to trying to talk kindly about Bill Gates in the 90s. The steps and mistakes they've been making are well documented here on Slashdot, and they are doing a whole lot of sucking. However, here's a revelation for you...
You can throw your prophecies of doom left and right, but it's pointless. We may not like Sony and their shenanigans, but barring you personally tracking down and proselytizing every Joe and Jill Gamer it's not going to make a difference. They won't have all this Anti-Sony momentum when they walk into Gamestop, they'll just have money and choices.
Nintendo screwed up a lot of things with the Nintendo 64. They were arrogant, they didn't have many games, and they lost almost all the third party support there was. They still captured a large amount of market share. Sony's in a similar boat. Sure their price is insane, sure they're down to shooting the bloody stumps they have for legs with their PR, sure there'll only be 500000 consoles at launch, but ultimately they're still going to capture a significant amount of market share. It's not going to be like this past generation where it was ubiquitous, but you're not going to see PS3s lying around in stores this Christmas.
In short, you're wrong. Sony isn't about to collapse. Microsoft and Nintendo can't have victory parties yet.
To those of you already celebrating Sony's eminent victory, prepare yourselves for a fall because you're wrong too. Sony isn't going to dominate this generation like they did the last two. It's just not happening. People are primed about the Wii, people are still buying Xbox 360s, and Sony is making an ass of themselves. There's very little they're doing that is conducive to remaining dominant.
You can cite induction all you like, but that's a silly argument for Sony continuing to dominate. Atari cited it back when the video game industry completely collapsed. Nintendo cited it before they lost the majority of their market share to Sony, and now Sony and you are citing it in the face of the toughest competition yet, with the worst showing they've ever offered.
Whether you like it or not, the Xbox 360 has already sold 6 million consoles. That's about a fourth to a third of what they sold the entire past generation, and that's without Halo. They've got their foothold this generation and they're not going anywhere. When you talk to your hardcore gamer friends, the Wii may be laughed at, but talk to Joe Gamer and you'd be surprised. These people have been waving their controllers around since the 80s (and perhaps haven't since then), and are looking forward to doing it again and actually having it WORK!
In short, you're not going to have 100% marketshare. In fact, you'll be lucky if you grab 50% market share. The whole deal is such that this may be the first three way tie the video game industry will see. If you're not ready to accept that each console has merit, you're in for a rude awakening.
To summarize both, Sony is neither ascending to heaven or descending into hell this generation.
Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
All that Sony needs to do is stop acting so arrogant.
Do you really think that a couple of gamer conventions (even as large as they are) are really going to bring down one of the largest, if not the largest, electronic entertainment companies?
The media really needs to get over themselves and understand their place in the world. They're the ones being arrogant.
This is like the Mel Gibson episode... Sure, we all think it's wrong, we think that Gibson needs to (at least) get a hold of himself but really... how many people do you really think are going to boycott the next Gibson effort? It's laughable how a few talking heads think that they choose who lives and who dies in the entertainment world. This is really no different.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Wii is not region-free.
... because they have RIIIIIIIIDGE Raaaaacerrrrr!!!!
I thought the target demographic for gamers had long since switched to 18 to 23 years old, and that game players were getting to be a pretty old lot. [citation]. Yeah, kids are important, but they don't matter as much as they used to.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
First of all, I agree that no matter what the Slashdot and extreme-gamer crowd think, Sony is still going to do awfully well this console generation. I am by no means a Sony fanboi either when I say this.
That said, you talk about their "Live-like service", but it's a bit disconcerting that we haven't heard much more about this. I think a lot of gamers were hoping to hear more about this mythical service, aside from some shaky-cam videos and screenshots, in a more official setting. TGS would have been it. If it weren't for the Japanese PS3 Core price-drop, and the inclusion of HDMI in all models, the lack of online-service details might have been the talk of the town/blogosphere.
-- jchenx
It's going to have to, because the world has shown itself incapable of convincing Sony.
Can anybody say 3DO or Jaguar?
The launch titles dont match up with Wii, the graphics dont seem much better than a 360, and theres no guarantee that bluray actually will be the next DVD rather than HD-DVD... So whats the point?
I mean, perhaps in a few years when I can find one at a pawn shop because some fool who overspends bought one when it was released... But Id prefer to save the extra $300 and invest in current generation games and maybe a Wii.
Zonk couldn't make this stuff up if he wanted to. Did Zonk make Kutaragi say stupid crap? Did Zonk force Sony to price the PS3 at 600 bucks? Did Zonk personally buy every DS in order to make sure that the PSP sold less? Did Zonk plant the Rootkit in the Sony CDs? Did Zonk personally program GT HD? Did Zonk switch Sony's controller with one that mimics some of the functionality of the Wii controller? Did Zonk write the script to the RIIIDGE RAAAAACER/giant crabs from Japan's history presentations?
Don't kill the messenger.
Most gamers want games and value, not brand alone. Sure, the Playstation brand is strong, but if it's the only thing you got, you ain't got enough. The PSP showed that.