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Linux Taking Over Schools in India

slashchris84 writes to mention a BusinessWeek article about the growing role of Linux in the classrooms of India. In a country with a long history of corporate problems and financial issues, the inexpensive and flexible nature of open source software is gaining a lot of ground. From the article: "Two years ago, New Delhi said the best way to improve computer literacy in India was to adopt open source software in schools. Although Kerala is the first to introduce such a program statewide, 18 of India's 28 states either are using Linux or have pilot projects for its use in various government departments and schools. The education ministries in most states, and in Delhi the federal ministries of defense, transport, communication, and health, are all using the software on server computers"

15 of 84 comments (clear)

  1. Tempered Enthusiasm by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    from the penguins-in-strange-places dept.

    Hey, Zonk, what's strange about Linux in education and government? Or is it India you find strange? New to the adoption of Linux by India topic are you?

    The education ministries in most states, and in Delhi the federal ministries of defense, transport, communication, and health, are all using the software on server computers"

    Also worth pointing out that this statement says "are all using the software on server computers", but doesn't say "all servers are using the software."

    So it's like, "I see a tip of an ice berg, but I don't know how big it really is."

    With 4,000 students and just 21 computers, the Cotton Hill Girls High School...
    The school is one of 2,600 in the state of Kerala making the shift. That means each of the state's 1.5 million high school students will grow accustomed to working not in the Windows environment familiar to computer users worldwide, but in Linux.

    So that's, what? (21/4100) * 1,500,000 ~= 7,682 computers?

    Not like it's going to make Microsoft sweat, but the comment from a student "Windows, never heard of it" might.

    It sounds good, but it's not like Microsoft is going to suffer a lot for this.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Tempered Enthusiasm by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful
      So that's, what? (21/4100) * 1,500,000 ~= 7,682 computers? Not like it's going to make Microsoft sweat, but the comment from a student "Windows, never heard of it" might.

      Everyone knows that Apple gained what power it had from its influence in education. Microsoft learned this lesson from them, and since has been giving knockout educational pricing to schools.

      Microsoft was already as concerned as they were going to be when the Indians announced they were going Open Source. A statement like that girl's is only confirmation.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Tempered Enthusiasm by truthsearch · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When the government of India suggested a major push into open source to help the country support its own IT a few years ago Bill Gates immedately made a special trip to India to meet with officials. Microsoft is definitely afraid a small shift in such a large country will turn into a major loss.

    3. Re:Tempered Enthusiasm by smittyoneeach · · Score: 5, Insightful
      It sounds good, but it's not like Microsoft is going to suffer a lot for this.
      Violently disagree.
      FOSS is to the Information Age as the printing press was the the Enlightenment.
      The realization in the public, business, and private sectors that we really don't need to fork over sizeable money for the Same Fscking Codebase They've Been Reselling For Years[1] is truly liberating, and could well lead to increased innovation, as more eloquently detailed by Moglen: http://www.redhat.com/magazine/020jun06/features/v ideo_moglen/

      [1] Albeit with some UI botox
      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
  2. It's not just India... by TheDarkener · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's only a matter of time until most schools realise the full potential of open source software, let alone things like LTSP. It just makes sense to use things like this in an educational environment. Reduced cost, reduced administration, more portability between students...

    And given that the students will "know" Linux after they're out of school, it's only a matter of time until it starts populating in the business world.

    First there was Apple in education...And then Microsoft. Microsoft is shafting the educational system with their inflated licensing costs, and trust me, educators aren't standing for it any more.

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    1. Re:It's not just India... by joe+155 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I must say I'd love that to be true - But I fear it isn't. I posted on my university blog criticising the University about pretty much only using MS software and only offering support/education for people in MS products. I got verious replies (including one from a woman about how women don't know how to use computers and aren't capable of learning, and linux is too hard) but the one which stuck out most was a couple from IT staff, one claimed that Free Software wouldn't be cheaper to use because they would need to change their procedures and way of running (which would have a cost) and MS sells them pretty cheap licences... I fear that they'll be able to use their monopoly to keep themselves as a de facto standard so people only know that.

      The second reply was saying that they couldn't roll out updates through out the network with free software in the same way that they could MS and they couldn't control it with the same level of precision that they could with MS products... I didn't get why (and suspected that it was untrue) but because I've never been a sys admin I guess I had to defer to their knowledge. If this is untrue I'm worried because they've started to believe MS's propaganda, if it's true I'm worried that open source is missing something

      --
      *''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
    2. Re:It's not just India... by sobachatina · · Score: 2, Informative
      they couldn't control it with the same level of precision that they could with MS products

      Actually I'm sure this statement is true. They probably can't.

      It would be false if they said it was impossible. What I like about Linux is how much more control and "precision" it gives me.

    3. Re:It's not just India... by TheDarkener · · Score: 3, Informative

      ...one claimed that Free Software wouldn't be cheaper to use because they would need to change their procedures and way of running (which would have a cost)

      Sure, but wouldn't upgrading to Vista as well? The fruit is worth the work of the harvest. ...MS sells them pretty cheap licences

      Cheap in relation to...? I met with the principal and director of technology for a pretty big school district yesterday and one of his main motivations for moving to Linux and LTSP was because Microsoft has decided to start charging them anually for licenses. ...they couldn't roll out updates through out the network with free software in the same way that they could MS and they couldn't control it with the same level of precision that they could with MS products

      LTSP updates the terminal server. The terminal server is what all thin clients run off of, so they are "automatically" updated when the server is (with a couple of rare occasions when you must update the chroot environment, but that is a one-stop simple procedure as well). Also, control is done through the terminal server. If you have multiple terminal servers for multiple sites and you're worried about updating them all at once, then there are things like Zenworks (though I'm not sure how it works with LTSP servers) and others I'm sure.

      I administrate a ~13 node LTSP setup for a non-profit after school hangout for kids. Before I came around (about a year ago), their hardware was running with Windows 95/98, and was riddled with illegal software, viruses and spyware. The machines were unusable and they were begging me to help.

      So, I sold them a cheap dual processor server and a bunch of PXE bootable NICs for their computers, and had an Edubuntu network running for them in a few weeks.

      They haven't had any major problems since. It just works. Now tell me that THIS kind of thing costs more than administrating Windows boxes.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    4. Re:It's not just India... by naelurec · · Score: 2, Informative
      they would need to change their procedures and way of running

      That is true. Admins that only know the Windows/Microsoft way of doing things would need to be removed and unix/linux admins would need to take their place.

      The second reply was saying that they couldn't roll out updates through out the network with free software in the same way that they could MS and they couldn't control it with the same level of precision that they could with MS products

      As others have said, they are looking at rolling out a Unix infrastructure that resembles a Windows network. Ideally most systems would be running as thin clients with a central server cluster. You update the software at the master server, it populates the cluster and all of the thin clients run software from there. It is a much less intensive administrative overhead, reduces the need for admins/IT to go computer-to-computer (Thin clients are more reliable, if one dies, unplug it and plug in another one..) and all administrative tasks are centralized.

      I provide technical consulting to a school that rolled out a thin client configuration across 150 computers (elementary school). There are 4 backend servers (for future expansion). The network just umm.. works. Upgrading software only happens at the master server, and everything rolls out nice. We can have multiple versions of software (if necessary) without having to deal with conflicts as on Windows. We don't have to ghost or create disk images. If a user has a problem, because they are ultimately running on the server, it is a piece-of-cake to see exactly what is on their screen and assist them from anywhere (remotely, from the front office, where-ever). There are no emergencies. The backend servers provide redunancy so if one happens to fail -- no problem. If a software upgrade fails, we only need to rollback at the master -- no need to jump around to various computers.

      Furthermore -- centralization makes backups a breeze .. there is no need for antivirus/spyware software on each of the computers (simplified), user accounts are true "underprivleged" without needing to do registry hacks to make software run.. information is centralized so if updates need to be made, a simple shell script usually suffices -- not to mention significantly less equipment to monitor and have spare parts on-hand in the event of hardware failure. Then there is the upgrade factor -- when we need more power -- we can add another server or upgrade the existing few servers we have.. no need to buy hundreds of standalone computers, ghost, migrate desktops, etc.

      The only major issue is legacy (windows) software that doesn't have a *nix port or equivilant. Those end up being run via terminal server which is adequate but not nearly as integrated as we would like.
  3. it'd be great to run these on Mon, Tue, or Wed by Locutus · · Score: 2

    This is a well known tactic for the IT press since viewership is far lower on Thu and Fri and almost zero on weekends. When we start seeing THESE kinds of articles published during "prime time", then we'll know that Linux and open source has arrived and the press is not worried about 'exciting' a particular advertiser.

    Seeing this in printed form would be a good indicator also.
    IMO.

    LoB

    --
    "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
  4. The Strange Place is Businessweek. by twitter · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hey, Zonk, what's strange about Linux in education and government? Or is it India you find strange? New to the adoption of Linux by India topic are you?

    Ah, such a beautiful troll. It accuses Zonk of racism and implicitly calls Linux second rate. Best of all, it's completely wrong. Oh, but there's more, a defense of the Mighty Morphing M$ Monopoly. It could only be better by invoking religion, BSD and abortion.

    it's going to make Microsoft sweat, but the comment from a student "Windows, never heard of it" might. It sounds good, but it's not like Microsoft is going to suffer a lot for this.

    It sounds good and it is good. M$ is going to lose mind share because they can't both make a profit and "give away" software everwhere it's too expensive. They don't have the man power to decide, much less do the install. They can dangle a few machines in a few prominent places, but the needs and demands far exceed their ability to control it all. People are going keep installing free software and using it. The advantages are obvious and show, especially next to the crippled versions they insultingly have created for those who can't afford US prices. All of India is going to enter the information age and they are going to do it without the price, complexity and insult that non free software has to offer.

    The only thing strange about this article is that BusinessWeek noticed it. What's not strange is that they rattle off a bunch of M$ FUD about "service trouble" and "it's all on the server" to conclude, "Linux will be knocking Windows off the desktop anytime soon." BusinessWeek is slowly understanding free software, but they are not ready for publication yet.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  5. IDC says 21% annual revenue growth through 2010 by Locutus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That means it'll cost businesses( in 2010 ) $19.9 Million for Linux. They also say that businesses, etc already pay $200 Million annually for Microsoft Windows software but leave 2010 number out.

    No wonder Indian schools are looking to Linux, they'll save huge sums of money this way and at the same time, be building a workforce capable of supporting this shift.

    Who knows, in 2010, we may be seeing only IDC numbers on revenue from services around Linux and OSS.

    It sure seems strange that these kinds of numbers always seem to be equated with how much money Microsoft makes or how big their market is when infact, it's all about how much it's costing businesses. After all, they are not talking about services and are all about software sales.

    When US companies 'see the light' and realize these numbers are leaving THEIR pockets, they might be willing to look toward Linux on the desktop too.

    LoB

    --
    "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
  6. Re:Linux taking over schools? by Technician · · Score: 2, Funny

    When I first read the headline I envisioned a hostile takeover by giant laptops with tuxeyes running fullscreen for laser shooting purposes. This is cool too though, I guess.

    Not quite the same, but it reminds me of the Penguin Computing from a few years ago. I Godzilla size Tux invading the Redmond campus saying "Good evening Mr. Gates, I'll be your server tonight!".

    http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www. humor-day.com/funny_pictures/572.jpg&imgrefurl=htt p://humor-day.com/pictureviewer.php%3Fid%3D572&h=7 68&w=1024&sz=129&hl=en&start=6&tbnid=kF5uhRnfeMec4 M:&tbnh=112&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgood%2Beve ning%2Bmr%2Bgates%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%2 6sa%3DG

    DL it and use it as your desktop wallpaper.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  7. Re:Don't get too excited... QWZX by humphrm · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There is another angle, though. Maybe you dismiss it, but to some India is one of the hottest technical development centers in the world. And this is a country that highly values education and generally does a better job of providing it to even it's poorest constituents than the "Developed Countries". Having just returned from Hyderabad, I witnessed kids crawling out of what could only be described by a Westerner as a mud hut, with a sparkling clean and pressed school uniform on, ready to go to school. In America, these kids would probably not qualify for most public schools because they don't have an address.

    Then, they go on to higher education... and guess what schools are being built fast in India? Technical schools. Lots of them.

    My point is, your "backwater" country is doing a better job of educating it's masses than most western countries, and the tools that these kids learn today will shape technology tomorrow.

    --
    -- "In order to have power, I must be taken seriously." -Mojo Jojo
  8. Re:never heard of it? by grcumb · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I'd wager that this kid is from some remote village that's still marvelling at the can opener. Kids with computers at home want to play games and that means Windows.

    I'll ignore the condescension for a moment to correct your 'Windows is the computer' assumption.

    I work in the developing world in a place where computers are about at the same level of uptake as they were in the US in the early to mid 1990s. More and more people are getting them, and exposure is increasing. From my observation, the only people who care about Windows are those who know nothing else. And that refers mostly to donors, volunteers, expat advisors and a few functionaries who have been trained overseas.

    Almost everyone else has exactly the same reaction as that little girl: "Windows? never heard of it." This is true even if they're using Windows on their computer. They don't care about brand names, they just want to do their thing.

    And by the way, of the roughly 450 youth who come and use one of the computer centres I administer, the most popular pastime is reading and writing email, followed by web browsing. Games come further down the list. Thing is, they can play games any time. Outside. With their friends. Email and the web? Their time for that is limited.

    --
    Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.