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NASA Administrator Mike Griffin to visit China
Maggie McKee writes "China has repeatedly extended a hand to the US to work together in space, but for military and political reasons the US has always refused. Now, New Scientist Space reports that NASA chief Mike Griffin and other bigwigs are about to head to China for a meet-and-greet. But Griffin says: 'This is a get-acquainted session, and it is nothing more, and to characterise it as anything more would be to create expectations that would be possibly embarrassing to us or embarrassing to China.'"
And with the other hand, they're trying to steal the blueprints.
"Anything tastes good if you deep fry it."
And which space agency haven't? The US wouldn't had a rocket program if it hadn't "stolen" some Nazi scientists.
From the article:
Despite the fact that China has repeatedly asked to participate in the International Space Station, the US has always refused. Some have argued this is because of a reluctance to share technologies that might be co-opted for military purposes, but others say it is simply down to politics, with space the last bastion of Cold War thinking.
If so, I wonder if it's really the US that blackballs the Chinese. The country with the most to fear from China is actually Russia. They share an enormous common border. On the Russian side you've got endless empty taiga, natural resources galore...a paltry 140 million citizens...on the Chinese side, a billion hungry peasants. What's the Chinese for Lebensraum, I wonder?
Me, I'm totally OK with a strictly competitive stance vis-a-vis the Chinese in space. Much more gets done in that brisk atmosphere than in the suffocating 'cooperation in space' fug through which the ISS drifts, poor thing.
Shouldn't what is apparently a published piece of scientific work use the apostrophe correctly to indicate ownership? (top of page 4, pdf in TFA).
"Just because you're eloquent doesn't mean you aren't a fucking crackpot." -Wavebreak
..... oh wait.... :)
The US wouldn't had a rocket program if it hadn't "stolen" some Nazi scientists.
Yeah, because I'm sure they just had to be kidnapped and dragged over here; the alternative of ending up in some Soviet gulag, breaking big rocks into small rocks, being as enticing as it is.
Von Braun probably just stole a train and hauled ass towards the Western Front for a shits and giggles.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Yeah, but I was thinking Merv Griffin, not Michael.
bada-boom
The revolution will NOT be televised.
'Stolen' is such a harsh word. It would be more accurate to say that the US gained the spoils from defeating an unjust enemy. Stolen is what the Nazis did to property and people of France, Poland, Northern Africa, etc. Stolen is the half a million lives the US had to pay to defeat the Axis powers. To say that the US didn't have a right to take the mindpower of an enemy that was planning to use those minds to destroy the civilized world is a mischaracterization at best.
No! They're small! And they're sneaky!!! And they've got those beady little eyes!!
DON'T TRUST THE YELLOW MAN!!!!!
----
I'm guessing that the US has mostly ignored a partnership because it's probably not a good idea to share technology that could help make better missiles that could help attack North America. But now that they've obviously come a long way and have matured the technology on their own, it's probably a better idea to start making friends with them.
Or maybe it's a matter of keep your friends close and your enemies closer... that way we could get a better view on what kind of technology they really have over there.
You've got to take a really long-term view on the US-China relationship. In 50 years they will likely be either our most powerful partner or our most feared enemy (or maybe both).
We need to stop refusing to do (non-military) things with China. I think it's retarded that we can't share in scientific efforts with anyone who owns half our national debt. Hey China, you should tell us to pay up for being such jerks.
I'd rather be a well known drunk than an anonymous alcoholic.
That's not really China, it's actually a movie set in the middle of the desert...
Haven't you heard? All of Space is the sovereign territory of the US -of- Fuckin' A! Uncle Sam'll be damned if he gonna let any slope get his yellow hands on a piece of that pie.
to characterise it as anything more would be to create expectations that would be possibly embarrassing to us or embarrassing to China
America will fail because it can't separate politics from science.
Exactly like it can't separate politics from religion.
That's more "embarrasing" than the scientific progress that could result from this meeting.
China might have an "evil" administration. But for the love of god... First look at that shit you'd vote for.
... was wondering if this could be related to this other Slashdot article.
i think this is neat.
They just want to compare their fireworks to the Chinese.
Once China announced that they were going to the moon, it turned into one. First for presitage, but the real answer is history and land space. There are only several places on the moon which have 24x7 sun; the poles. If anybody wants to create a base, they pretty much must be at the poles to have CHEAP energy. In addition, it is only at the poles that there is a chance of ice. If a glacier of ice can be found, then it is possible to live much cheaper there. All in all, this is a land grab. Whoever gets there second will start complaigning to the UN, but nothing will happen.
Once Bush is gone, the next president will almost certainly change the direction from the ares I/V and CEV, to Ares V and a moon lander. The reason is that we will have cheap access for small items and the BA-330. All that will be needed is a large capacity rocket and a lander to create the bases.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
First China.... and then to the moon!!!!
Well, I'm for space exploration, but not for a new space race.
A "Space Race" is about national prestige. We've been there, done that as far as the moon is concerned. Furthermore, if we head for manned missions to Mars, we must remember we're being judged on a sliding scale. It should be no surprise that we can do that, which means from the point of view of national prestige, we can only lose.
What I'd like to see is a new effort towards establishing international technological prestige, but in a differnt area: biology and biotechnology.
Put together a rogue's gallery of "most wanted" diseases:
(1) Influenza
(2) The common cold
(3) HIV
(4) Malaria
(5) TB
(6) Alzheimer's
(7) Arthritis
And say that within ten years at least one of these will be eradicated and in twenty years a majority of them will be.
This selection of diseases either have daily impact in most American's lives, or massive economic/social impact, or both. They were chosen to represent challenges in several areas of biology as well.
Malaria is a bit of a special case in that it is not something that Americans by in large have to worry about. But together with HIV and TB, it has a stupendous worldwide impact on economic development, and thus political stability. A healthy third world is a third world which will have stability in economics, population and politics. It will be less a source of extremism and more of a trading partner.
Another alternative would be a national program around developing new sources of energy and more efficient methods of transporting energy that create a broader market for those sources. For example, a national program to develop the next generation electrical grid could by itself jump start the development of more diverse energy sources.
An "energy" race would have several important benefits over a "health" race. First, the initial components of the strategy would more feasible and less costly. Second, the economic benefits would be spread across the economy, with relatively little delay for the economy to restructure itself (you can't train an army of biologists overnight).
One downside is that it would do less, I think, for national prestige. Also, the public has not absorbed the message that energy prices in the twenty-first century are volatile, and that we are vulnerable to flucations in price. They're only happy because gas prices have fallen somewhat from last summer.
Overall, as I said, I favor continued space exploration. But outer space is not the only "space" (in a mathematical sense) that needs exploration. Nor does free handed investment in space exploration offer as much in the way of practical economic and political benefits. Furthermore, failure in a space race, even modest failure on an ambitious program, entails considerable risk to national prestige, because of the "expectations game".
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Nice, but we did almost nothing. The Soviets did most of the work and we just came in to mop up.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
What benefit could the US expect from cooperation from China? Would it shrink the trade deficit, raise the value of the yuan, moderate the brutal Chinese regime? Will they provide money or advanced space technology? Most space technology is duel use, so why educate them? The US is rightly cautious.
an ill wind that blows no good
But only Nixon could go to China!
Tracy Johnson
Old fashioned text games hosted below:
http://empire.openmpe.com/
BT
Naw... I have to be dreaming. The U.S. owes an apology to the "father of Chinese rocketry," who was a key contributor to rocketry in the U.S. before he was deported.
The reason China was able to rapidly build a missile program and later a space program is because the United States deported a JPL founder in the mid-1950s as a result of the McCarthy era. Tsien Hsue-Shen was one of the key developers of missile technology for the U.S. Army, and was sent to Germany on behalf of the Army to interview von Braun and others to assess the state of their weapons technology. He even made the cover of Time magazine for his technical achivements. He was, in effect, right hand man to famed CalTech aerodynamicist Theodore von Karman. Then he was accused of being a Communist spy, his security clearance revoked, and he was kept in a state of professional limbo for five years before being deported to China (or rather traded for American pilots shot down in North Korea). When he arrived in China, he was welcomed with open arms, and started the Chinese missile program, developing it completely from scratch. He later went on to put the first Chinese satellite in orbit. Today, Tsien is still a hero in China. All this courtesy of the Immigration and Naturalization Service.
Tsien is apparantly still alive, close to 100 years old, but confined to bed. He has never received an apology from the U.S. government and has therefore refused to receive government officials. But he has received non-government visitors from the U.S., particularly from his alma mater, CalTech, which gave rise to JPL. He taught there, did research there, helped form JPL with von Karman and others. The CalTech community never believed he was a spy, and fought to prove him innocent.
If someone representing the U.S. government were to deliver an apology, it really would be nice if it were the head of the U.S. space program. Mike Griffin is, like Tsien was, an aerospace engineer pressed into government service. I'm sure Griffin knew about Tsien long before this trip, and probably has been briefed on his current condition.
False staement. Funny how many America haters forget history. You do realize that USA sent tons and tons of supplies to the USSR went Hitler was going east. The USSR would have fallen if it wasn't for our help.
Besides, D-Day was almost nothing?
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK
The vast majority of the US work was in the Eastern front with Japan. And yes, D-Day was almost nothing.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Only about 10% of the American war effort went to fight Japan. The US spent more money on Italian war refugees than on fighting Japan.
Maybe you're forgetting the strategic bombing campaign, North Africa, and Italy?
It is funny how people are so quick to denounce USA that they praise USSR as being the savior of Europe. USSR helped, a lot, but it was the factories of USA that beat Hitler and Japan through direct involment and supporting those who were in the War before USA joined. We sent tons of stuff to England as well as USSR.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK
Ever heard of a thing called the Lend-Lease act?
Read about it here.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK
hmmm. in a 6 year war, we fought 5 years of it, starting just 6 months after Russia's entry (after they had made a treaty with Hitler to ignore what germany was doing). We provided a large amount of war supplies as well as sending our troops into the pacific, Africa, and Europe whereas Russia simply defended their country (poorly i might add), and nothing else. And you still call our involvement nothing? I am trying to figure out which you are: a neo-con that likes re-writing history or simply an idiot.