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Munich Finally Starts to Embrace Linux

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the finally-taking-the-next-step dept.

sankyuu writes "After years of rumor and vacillation over fear of patents, the city of Munich has decided to trickle in its first 100 linux terminals. The floodgates are scheduled to fling open by 2008, when 80% of government PCs should be running Linux."

22 of 154 comments (clear)

  1. holy not cost effective, batman! by larry+bagina · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The current projected costs are 35 Million Euros (up from 30 Million) to convert 14,000 computers.

    2,500 Euros per computer.

    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    1. Re:holy not cost effective, batman! by dk-software-engineer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I wonder what it would cost to upgrade to Windows Vista, and the next Windows after that.

    2. Re:holy not cost effective, batman! by headkase · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They're taking a big one-time hit although. Once they've rewritten/replaced all their software and migrated their data the cost to add new units will be significantly lower.

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      Shh.
    3. Re:holy not cost effective, batman! by TeknoHog · · Score: 4, Informative

      Even if the costs are same, it's better for Europeans for the money to stay in local economy, than to be flushed away to Redmond. But I'm probably just forgetting all the jobs that will be created by Vista ;)

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    4. Re:holy not cost effective, batman! by ozmanjusri · · Score: 4, Insightful
      They're taking a big one-time hit although.

      I wonder how many of the custom apps they're building on Linux will also be open source, and therefore available to the next government looking to switch. It could be that Munich is taking a _really_ big hit, but each organisation which follows the same path will find it progressively easier to switch.

      I've often thought that commercial software vendors are taking an immense risk in not porting to Linux, thereby allowing the whole FOSS application stack on the platform to be developed without commercial-grade competition.

      This sort of migration could start a cascade effect, where each successful adoption catalyses the next, and there are damn few commercial software houses prepared to take advantage of that.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    5. Re:holy not cost effective, batman! by GreatBunzinni · · Score: 3, Interesting
      You obviously missed the part where they are paying this money to IBM, so your point was?

      The point is that the government and the state institutions are the motor behind the adoptions in the private sector and personal use. By adopting open source solutions, Munich is incentivating the creation and growth of a local market for training, supplying and managing open source solutions. And having in mind that quite a few open source is produced in Germany (KDE, for example) then it is obvious that the people of Germany have a lot to win with that migration.

      One other aspect to have in mind is that the money which Munich is paying isn't just for installing new software. Munich is paying the price for not being dependent on a certain platforms (windows) and certain software. It's like a drug addict paying for detox treatment. There are quite a few places that certain software was adopted and subsequently their business was built around it. Now, those solutions will have to be rethought and redone, which costs time and money to accomplish. Nevertheless, it does indeed pay off and pays off well.

      On a side note, isn't it funny how the exact same FUD directed towards Ernie Ball's migration to Free/Open Source software is being used against Munich? And once again the FUDers will realize that the migration process, although it isn't always smooth, not only is perfectly possible but also ver positive for the organizations which adopt it.

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    6. Re:holy not cost effective, batman! by Yvanhoe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You can hire some guy to "correct this nasty bug in XXX OSS software". You can't hire some guy to correct this problem in IE or in Windows. It is technically more difficult, and legally questionable. That is what is meant when someone talks about independance in the OSS community.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
  2. Behind the scenes... by freemywrld · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They fail to mention how many government servers have been running linux behind-the-scenes for years. Changes are, at least a handful. I realize the excitement of this is in bringing Linux to the desktop, but people aren't always aware of its presence, even when quietly surrounded by it. Now I don't have any facts on Munich's server architecture, so I could very well be wrong.

    Snarkiness aside, I think this is a cool project. It'll be interesting to see who else follows Munich's lead, and what ol' Ballmer aims to do about it. Maybe he'll chuck a chair (doh.. there's that snarkiness again... time for me to creep back into my hidey hole).

    --
    Support a true independent artist - Leila Lopez
    1. Re:Behind the scenes... by pimpimpim · · Score: 4, Informative
      I checked this news out yesterday, and read on the german project website that they already used linux on their servers since 1995. The idea to change came when it was apparent that windows NT would be stopped and new MS software would require them to start a contract forcing them to renew this contract constantly. Then, if I remember correctly, the major tested if his wife could manage to work on openoffice, which turned out pretty nicely.

      With the major and of course a majority in the city council backing this, they started a very gradual and careful way to change, with a halt since 2004 because they needed a risk analysis in the case that software patents would be installed EU-wide. The cost risk turned out to be pretty small, as for every patent there can be a workaround eventually, linux is based on code that is already known since the 60s, and some other reasons. In the mean time they made sure they had automated software install systems working, and other practical issues resolved. The big news now is that they will actually start with the first linux machines for office employees. First ones will be for office work that requires interchangeable software (word processor, etc), then more complicated office work will follow.

      --
      molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
  3. Mayor's PC among the first by rainer_d · · Score: 4, Informative

    It should be noted that Mayor Christian Ude's PC is slated to be among the first batch of systems to run the Debian-based Linux-desktop Munich will be using.

    --
    Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
  4. additional info by Andreas+Schaefer · · Score: 5, Informative

    the standard configuration will be Debian GNU/Linux 3.1, KDE 3.5 and OpenOffice 2.
    however, the main reason for the delays and the slow roll-out are that a lot of custom applications had to be ported and for some existing client/server apps interfaces had to be created from scratch.

    cheers from Munich,
    Andreas

  5. They Tried by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 4, Funny

    They tried. They gave them every chance to come up with a better operating system. They even delayed the switch to Linux by many years to give them a chance. Even now, they're giving them until 2008 to get at least some share of the cake.

    But Microsoft just couldn't get Longhorn ready in time.

    --
    Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
  6. Meanwhile, on the other side of the Rhine... by boule75 · · Score: 5, Informative
    ... some more (French, sorry) 400,000 PCs are to swith to Open Office in 2007 in the oublic sector, folowing a successfull move in the Gendarmerie (rural police, 90,000 PCs). - A summary here or in the official French annouce.

    Some Open Source headways in Europe, indeed, can clearly be seen in EU site.

    Quite heartening indeed! Maybe the big conservative companies will finaly notice this trend. I am sure Microsoft did.

    --
    I am not Remy Mouton, unfortunately: http://remy.mouton.free.fr/art/
  7. Re:Just curious by rainer_d · · Score: 4, Informative

    > Why Debian?

    See here:

    http://www.muenchen.de/Rathaus/dir/limux/english/1 47197/index.html

    OK?

    --
    Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
  8. Costs: €0.00 by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They're taking a big one-time hit although. Once they've rewritten/replaced all their software and migrated their data the cost to add new units will be significantly lower.

    I agree with you and I don't understand why so many people assume that a migration from a Windows infrastructure to an OSS one will cost €0.00? If Munich is going ahead and doing this in the first place they might want to make some fundamental changes to their IT infrastructure since they will be ripping the guts out it anyway. Take for example the proposition of replacing dumb Windows PCs that just stand around all day giving users access to a single application (Why pay a Windows XP license for every one of those PCs?) with Linux based thin clients. In this case they might be factoring the replacement of some quantities of computer equipment and infrastructure changes into that figure of €30 million. Then of course there are the costs of testing the whole system, the costs of writing custom software to aid in the migration of entire data bases, websites and other applications previously hosted on Windows 2003+MSSQL+IIS to open source platforms, porting custom made GUI applications/clients to Linux or replacing them with new webapps. I can see why the costs would go up but in the long run I agree with you that their costs should go down as a result of this measure if they handle the project properly which, admittedly, is asking a lot of a German bureaucracy. I would really like to see a financial breakdown and progress report of this project when they are done, this project is really interesting due to it's scale.

    --
    Only to idiots, are orders laws.
    -- Henning von Tresckow
  9. Re:Linux urinals? by marcello_dl · · Score: 3, Funny
    Heh. Misread that summary as "Linux urinals". I was wondering what sort of benefit Linux could bring to the porcelain pots
    "Welcome to UrinalXP!
    Your ToiletFlush(tm); license has expired. Please supply your Credit card details using morse code on the ToiletFlush(tm); button. The ToiletDoor(pat.pend.) will stay shut for safety reasons until you comply."
    --
    ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
  10. Re:Just curious by rainer_d · · Score: 3, Informative

    sigh.

    that site has general information about the Linux-Project and a link to this site:
    http://www.ssrc.org/wiki/POSA/index.php?title=LiMu x%E2%80%94Free_Software_for_Munich

    --
    Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
  11. Octoberfest by hey · · Score: 4, Funny

    Probably won't be doing much migrating next month.

  12. Can I be the first to suggest... by tygerstripes · · Score: 3, Funny

    Munix?

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    Meta will eat itself
  13. Chairs of Mass Destruction by db32 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I hope the Germans have a better missile defense system than we do. Intercontinental Ballmer Missiles (ICBM) incoming!

    --
    The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
  14. Re:The headline is mis-leading! by Chaffar · · Score: 4, Informative
    From my understanding (reading other posts in the thread) it's KDE 3.5 on Debian. Why they didn't go with Ubuntu+Gnome, I don't know.
    Because KDE is a (mostly)German project, whereas GNOME is distinctly American. According to Wikipedia: German non-profit organization (KDE e.V.) owns the trademark on "KDE", and KDE conferences often take place in Germany.
  15. Re:The headline is mis-leading! by segedunum · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Because KDE is a (mostly)German project, whereas GNOME is distinctly American.
    It's perceived as being a German project, but with the number of people who are not Germans involved and on KDE eV it isn't any longer.

    Besides, I'm uncomfortable with that as an explanation. I'd like to see a comparison of what they need from a desktop environment, what worked in one and didn't work in the other, what users needs and what admins need, and make a reasoned comparison on that.