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Why Torvalds is Sitting out the GPLv3 Process

lisah writes "Linus Torvalds has a lot of reasons for not wanting to participate in drafting the third version of the GNU General Public License (GPL): He doesn't like meetings, says committees don't make sense, has philosophical differences with the Free Software Foundation, and seems to be generally distrustful of the whole drafting process. Though Torvalds prefers the GPLv2, he says if others prefer the GPLv3, they ought to support it because 'it's not like it kills and eats small children for breakfast, and must never be allowed.'" Linux.com and Slashdot are both owned by OSTG.

9 of 365 comments (clear)

  1. The GPL3 process is not closed by pieterh · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If you want to contribute to the GPLv3, you can. The FFII, for example, proposed some changes that would clarify the GPLv3 with respect to patent law in Europe (the current draft is too US-biased).

    Torvalds doesn't need to contribute, but I'm glad he's moved to a more neutral stance. The GPLv2 is old and out of date and though it still works today, will start to crumble in a few years.

    In every new project my firm does, we end up adding our own conditions onto the GPL3 (for instance for patents) and it'd be far better to have these defined as standard.

    It's good to be critical of processes that aren't clear, and it's entirely possible that the FSF won't be able to produce a worthy successor to GPLv2, which is an incredibly important document in the history of software, but we should give them the benefit of the doubt.

    1. Re:The GPL3 process is not closed by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Funny
      Please explain how a license can "crumble".

      The original GPLv2 was, in fact, printed on a giant cookie.
    2. Re:The GPL3 process is not closed by mrchaotica · · Score: 5, Insightful

      More and more people will start exploiting the loopholes in GPL v.2 (e.g. apps as web servies, so they're not technically "distributed" to the users, TiVo-esque locking of hardware to use only the company's version of the program, etc.).

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    3. Re:The GPL3 process is not closed by mrchaotica · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The GPL was designed by the Free Software Foundation, and they made it very clear what they intended (in the GNU manifesto, etc.). By that standard, the loopholes are bugs.

      In other words, the FSF's opinion is the only one that matters because it's their license. If you don't like it, use a different one or make your own. And if you already chose to use it (with the "...or later" clause), you had ample oppertunity to understand what you were getting into before you did it.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  2. I'm holding out by stox · · Score: 5, Funny

    for the kills small children and eats them for lunch license. Dinner would be OK, too, but not breakfast.

    --
    "To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
  3. A simpler explanation by El+Cubano · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Torvalds may not like the GPLv3. However, I think that is orthogonal to why he is sitting out the process. At heart, the man is an engineer/coder. How many people work as software engineers/programmers/code monkeys/whatever and jump at the shot to sit in the "politcal" meetings? Seriously. As a general rule, engineers and programmers would rather be engineering and programming. They don't care so much about marketing. They don't care so much about the political undercurrents of the organization. They just want to do their job well.

  4. Two Cases by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Please explain how a license can "crumble".
    Two situations. First, one can have the ability to see and modify source code, but not run the program. Case in point, hardware that will only run signed binaries. Sure, you can look at the source code for your CCTV system, TiVo, etc, but you will never be able to upgrade your own devices code without the hardware keys from the vendor.

    Second, ability to run the program, but not see the source code. Case in point, Google. It is beyond question that Google are using all kinds of GPL applications, from the kernel to webservers to highly modified filesystem drivers. All of it GPLed and none of the code available for you to see, despite the fact that Google allow you to use all these services online, you'll never see a line of the modified code.

    Both these cases violate not the letter of the GPLv2 licence, but the spirit of it. That spirit being the ability to run the program, modify the source, and run the changed program. This is happening on small scales today. It could soon be happening on a huge scale, and that would undermine the whole FOSS community. GPLv3 will be needed in the future.
    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
  5. What's actually going on here "spin-free" by browncs · · Score: 5, Interesting
    1. RMS and the FSF (which are one and the same for all practical purposes) talk
      about "free software". What they are truly fundamentally about is
      creating a comprehensive category of software which is completely free from
      corporate/business control, and which individual users can completely control in
      all aspects as they wish.

      His fundamental motivation is an anti-corporation, pro-individual/community
      point of view. The fact that the mechanism for enabling his version of
      "free software" is the GPL and a common pool of open source is
      secondary. If he could have gotten a global law enforced that all corporations
      must release all their source code freely on the Internet, that's what he would
      have done, instead of GNU and GPL.

      RMS is an absolutist on this point. He truly sees this as good vs. evil, and as
      a belief system about which there can be no question.

      To help understand this, http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID =9350
      read this interview.

      This is where the insistence that DRM and "Trusted Computing" and
      software patents must be abolished comes from. These are all tools that
      corporations use to protect their property. RMS does not believe they should
      have property like this... that it should all be made available to users with no
      control by corporations.

    2. Linux is also licensed under the GPL (v2), but comes from a completely
      different motivation than RMS. Torvalds simply believes the open-source
      development model is the most effective way to create excellent software.
      Torvalds is just fine with corporations and businesses using Linux for profit,
      even if that means "controlling" some aspects of its use. He
      certainly has opinions on DRM, patents, and "Trusted Computing", but
      he's not going to let those get in the way of Linux development.

    3. So now starts the struggle for control of "what is the meaning of free
      software". RMS is clearly trying to re-establish his vision of the
      principles involved by pushing through GPL v3, because he's seen GPL v2 used in
      ways that offend his principles deeply. Is it too late? Has the FOSS movement
      taken off to an extent that he no longer controls it? Stay tuned.
  6. Re:So what does Linus really want? by killjoe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Linus just doesn't care all that much. He hasn't learned the proper lesson from the bitkeeper incident yet apparently.

    --
    evil is as evil does