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Zune's Wireless Almost Totally Worthless
mikesd81 writes to mention an article at Engadget exploring what the Zune's wireless is good for. It turns out that, at least for now, that's not much. From the article: "You can search for and find other Zunes nearby. You can send songs / albums for the 3 x 3 trial. Songs past the three days / listens are deleted at next sync, but catalogued on your PC for record-keeping should you want to purchase them later. No word on whether Microsoft is going to keep track of which files are traded. You can send and receive image files for 'unlimited viewing.' (Oh, so copyrighted images aren't worth DRMing?) You can't: Connect to the internet, Download songs directly from the Zune store via WiFi, Sync to your computer via WiFi."
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Wouldn't an obvious business model be to sell music over the internet and allow people to buy/download music direct on their media player instead of needing a PC. This makes the device sellable to those without PCs. You can then do deals with wireless hotspot providers to offer your users wireless access like nintendo has done.
...before someone cracks the software. Look at all the trouble Apple went through to make getting songs off the iPod and onto a 'new' system impossible. Now there is software that allows you to pull files off it directly and in the original file structure. Give it time, and you'll find new software and firmwares that will allow us to not only bypass DRM but sync via wireless, etc. I love what hackers can do :)
Who knows, maybe we'll be able to use it as a network fileserver like the XBox ;)
For the major stakeholders, i.e. IP holders, it's quite useful. It's just useless to _people_.
I, for one, am happy and proud to be part of this next Microsoft step into the 'products that people actively try and avoid' space. Further initiatives are to include a portable game platform that makes the sound of a crying baby, and a new mouse that randomly fires blasts of deadly, mutagenic radiation, all the time, for no reason. Also Vista.
It's all a difference in philosophy. Old Microsoft was about _giving_ people what they wanted, in the hope that they would then _give_ money in return. They would send people out who would discover needs (like the need for a Euro sign character, which the planet's committees and standards groups never grasped the point of) and then fulfil those needs. This kinda sorta worked a bit, but it was a bit pedestrian. Since 2000, New Microsoft has been focusing on actively _taking_ money out of the marketplace and _avoiding_ giving value in return. The Zune is part of this -- see, it has complex and interesting features, but they're there to prevent you from extracting value from it. It's like when they suddenly started charging for the Office /
Basically, what MS understands that nobody else on the planet really grasps is that V + P = K, where:
V = value delivered to the rest of the world
P = profit for MS
K = some constant
See how decreasing V is just like increasing P? It's brilliant once you get it. So this Zune serves to drive V down just a little bit further. Next step? PROFIT!!!
When I say 'profit' I must admit I mean 'ever decreasing relevancy'. But that's because I'm not a technical visionary like Steve Ballmer.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
Anything that has DRM and fails is a good thing.
/., but those guys who gave us Bob and Clippy rule the PC landscape and are billionaires/millionaires.
What a delightfully ignorant statement. Actually you are totally wrong, DRM is here and for the short/medium term, it's here to stay. So when "yet another media player with DRM fails" it's actually BAD for the consumer because there is ONE media player with DRM out there that is succeeding. Your scenario ONLY works if a) that "other" DRM'ed player also fails b) some non-DRM player happens to succeed (but since it wouldn't be able to legally play a significant portion of the content that most people want to hear, it's hard to imagine this scenario occuring). So, what do we have then. Well we have no weakening of the dominant player, and therefore no weakening of consumer acceptance of DRM, but we also have 0/zip/zilch/nada competition for said player. What a bright beautiful world you paint. You know, it's no wonder that you have nothing better to do than post on
I'm not sure I would *want* to be able to purchase songs via the wifi connection on my Zune. After all; I lose it or one of my friends borrows it for a while, they could really rack up some charges on my account. Sure, you could require a password be entered on the Zune - but with what? The touch wheel? That seems pretty silly to me. Further, there is a complaint about not being able to sync to your PC via wifi. Well, since the majority of wifi networks aren't secure - or require long, difficult to enter wifi keys (again, how do you input a 128-bit, 40-character ASCII WEP key on your Zune - or worse, a WPA key at 64 characters!) Sure, you could set that up on your computer and it would program the wifi settings on the Zune during a sync, but that brings forth the question - who would want to sync via wifi? I don't know - if I'm going to be syncing my unit up, I probably just setup Zune Media Center with a few new files I downloaded... I'm at my PC anyway, what's the big deal about dropping the unit in the dock while I'm there and waiting for it to sync? Most wifi routers in use today are still 11Mbps, too - any idea how long it would take to sync a Zune with even 50 new songs via wifi? I hope you brought your AC adapter - it will be a while. It seems like people are just poking holes in this for the point of poking holes. I mean - internet browsing? Maybe if there's a demand, but already in the USA, most people have internet enabled cell phones with pretty decent screens - and very few take advantage of true internet browsing on their phones. Whatever happens when this is released will be interesting, but I just wish people would stop acting like "they could do it better" - if so, why haven't they - or Sandisk, or Samsung, or Creative...?
Yeah, it does sound a tad cripple-ware. I wonder how different the wifi features are compared to what the guys in the concept & R&D labs first built.
Why the hell would I want a WIFI enable device if I can't even connect it to an AP or AD-HOC it to my notebook, it makes it really useless.
My Phone has bluetooth on it, and I sync it with my notebook wirlessly to change my playlists or archive my messages, its fantastic and its really got me to use the MP3 player in it. I don't think ill need to by the Zune if it can't even do what my phone can.
What (to use everyone's favorite extreme example) if someone decides to "push" child porn pics on all neighbouring zunes? Can he be identified via a serial number or similar traceback mechanism? Is there any way to "agree" to a transfer or "deny" all but a select few?
What if someone uses a poisoned mp3-file (initially sounds like a very low volume, current pop hit, then abruptly cuts to full volume static or sheetmetal noise)? In most other P2P communities there is either a central oversight (torrents) or a user community rating system (like in eMule) to avoid such malicious behaviour - will Microsoft take responsibility?
Oh, and another thing: Can you imitate a zune using a WLAN access point and send out files this way? Certainly there is right now no software available to do that, but think of the opportunities in the future: stores sending targeted high-tech-ad-jingles or catalog pages to all zune owners in range; anarchists distributing (audio) versions of the anarchists cookbook or recipes for drugs or explosives; political offices sending the (audio) equivalent of leaflets to everyone passing by...
Sounds like a really great idea, if there's anything people want then that's more spam!
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People said the same thing about the first generation of Windows, and then the Xbox...
Now Windows is the dominant OS in both the desktop and server market.
The first Xbox was able to even displace the mighty Nintendo in the console market, and the 360 is doing gangbusters.
When will people learn to NEVER count Microsoft out of anything they get into. They may make a few mistakes along the way, but when they want to be in a market, they eventually succeed.
People also seem to forget how upgradable the OS and firmware is on the Zune as well... how soon before you CAN browse and wirelessly synch?
It would be a world that you could do EVERYTHING with your wrist watch, sunglasses or cellular "communication center". EVERYTHING including computing, music, video, communication, internet, reports, movies, games, networking and more.
Thanks to RIAA, MPAA, and other similar shit, we arent living in such a world.
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It's a second rate copy of the iPod and its online store is a second rate copy of the iTMS. It's got a couple of features over and above what the iPod / iTMS offer but it's not nearly as easy to use as the iPod / iTMS combination. It's like the typical Microsoft v1.0 product, a day late and a dollar short.
I just don't see how Microsoft can turn this one into a winner unless Apple drops the ball Sony style. They haven't been successful yet in leveraging their desktop dominance to drive customers away from the iTMS. You know they'll try with Vista but I don't think that will have much of an effect on consumer's portable music player of choice or their online music store of choice. People have already made their bed when it comes to purchasing DRM'd music online. People who have bought from Apple will stick with Apple unless they really drop the ball because of Apple's DRM. People that have gone with Microsoft DRM will stick with devices that can handle Microsoft DRM because they have to. So when you really think about it, the Zune is a bigger threat to companies that have patterned with Microsoft by supporting Microsoft's DRM than it is to Apple.
Look, I think Zune is going to be yet another iPod wannabee that falls by the wayside - but in what way, shape, or form is this news at all? Basically this is saying that Zune's wireless is going to work like... well, like the way Zune's wireless has been described to us ad nauseum.
What new tidbit of information was revealed here, exactly?
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Seems a little silly for me to be (apparently) the only one to notice this, but is it a big deal that you can't sync wirelessly with your computer. Compared to USB2 and Firewire, 802.11g is pathetic speed-wise. Ever try copying a bunch of files onto one of those old USB1 flash drives? Impossibly slow. Wireless (at least in its current popular implementation) is too slow to do full syncs. A song or two is fine and amazingly convenient, but don't think that you can suddenly transfer gigabytes in seconds. The device would run out of power even if you had sufficient patience. Don't hold your breath on Apple somehow magically inventing new wireless technologies, much less new wireless standards.
My feeling is that, as it stands, the sharing feature will not be very useful for music, but will be great for pictures. People around here share a lot of pictures, usually using cds or flash drives, which are both much less convenient than just sending them over WiFi (that is, if whole folders can be sent).
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Sounds diabolically clever to me. Short-distance short-time song sharing sounds to me like something that would really get used if you have friends who have Zunes.
A lot depends on just how that three-day limit works. If you give a song to a friend and it expires, can you give it to him/her again?
I think quite a lot of music might get sold on the basis of short-term trials when the music was, in fact, recommended by a friend.
I can also see a lot of social gratification in being the first kid on the block to have paid for and bought a hot new tune, and therefore being the one who's in the position of being able to give trial versions to everyone else. (If Microsoft is smart, you will be able to give fresh trials over and over. Then the kids who haven't bought the music need to repeatedly go to the kid who has, in order to get their new time-limited free copies.) All of this in turn provides powerful reinforcement for wanting to buy the tune and be the go-to kid.
Actually, you want to do it in a hurry. If kid A gives you a free trial version, and you can afford to buy it, you'd want to buy it quickly, so there are still kids whom A hasn't given it to yet—kids for whom you can be the wealthy song-dispensing patron.
Furthermore, if there are a fair number of Zunes in play in a social group, then the kids with iPods are excluded... they see the kids with Zunes trading tunes and they're out of it, even if the kids with Zunes are their personal friends.
And I don't think these kids are going to spend much time stripping DRM from their music or exploiting the analog hole or anything like that.
The big "if" is whether the Zune garners enough critical mass for any of this to happen. If only two kids in school have Zunes and neither of them is interested in being a social patron of the other, it isn't going to work.
Mind you, this isn't what I want from a "wireless" mp3 player. But that doesn't mean it won't be effective.
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- Ogg and mp3 "support DRM" by your definition: Fairplay is just a wrapper added to the audio format. ...and yes, I have played them after copying them off. I had a hard drive crash and rescued my music off of my iPod precisely that way. Virtually my entire library was once on my iPod and had to be copied back.
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The trouble with wifi, although it seems like a great idea, is that its slow, takes a lot of battery power, and you can't charge the device using it
Given all the things you mention are obvious to anyone technical, it doesn't seem like a great idea at all - does it? Why on earth did the designers include it when you know it also made the case that much larger?
I really can't figure this device out. Knowing how the Zune is an MS only device (Linux and Mac users need not apply), its seems likely to me the reason for zune is an "get locked into MS Windows/ Windows Media Player".
I'm with you there, it's like Microsoft had on the monopoly glasses for this one and only saw how Apple managed to keep people using iPods while missing the fact Apple didn't tie users to any given OS (even Linux users can make use of an iPod).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's not about immediate profit, it's about control. Someone is making money in a computer-related market, and Microsoft doesn't control it. They have no piece of the iTunes/iPod action, and apparently they don't like that. They'll be willing to lose money on the venture all the way up until they've established control, and then they'll rake users over the coals once users have been locked into the Microsoft platform.
That's what Microsoft is after these days-- an all inclusive end-to-end dominance on anything resembling a computer. Handhelds, MP3 players, servers, desktops, refrigerators, web browsers, e-mail, game consoles, etc. The result will be that, any emerging computer market, no matter what the market is, will need to go through Microsoft, and Microsoft will dominate it.
Microsoft is not in the business of providing consumer products or OEM software-- they're in the business of dominating markets and eliminating competition.
I disagree.
There is a fair amount of material that is not DRM'd.
If you look at the past of human history, you see societies that we know lots about, and societies we know little about.
The societies we know lots about wrote material down in not particularly difficult to translate media.
The societies we know little about wrote down little, and what they did write was indicperiable. They remain a mystery.
Phish, for example, will last for a long time, regardless of whether or not people like it. It's DRM free for copying, so it can remain alive forever.
Metallica, on the other hand, will vanish in the sands of history, because no one will bother with a player that can run the discs, and after the last encryption code vanishes, no one will bother to decrypt it, except as a potential academic product in the annals of some obscure journal.
We won't see the whole 20th century go into the darkness. We will see GPL code that lives in the future as library/museum type stuff, while Windows will only live on in pictures/videos.
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Right, so you could get an iPod which requires an adaptor, aftermarket stereo, or new car, or you could get a Zune which... requires exactly the same thing, but is wireless so it can't be recharged by the car at the same time. So again, how is it better?
In other words, if you cam make the assumption that you had a car stereo with Zune support (not just Wi-Fi; it needs the proper software too), you can just as easily make the assumption that you had a car stereo with iPod support. In fact, the latter is actually a more reasonable assumption, since at least it already exists.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Actually, as this is /., the headline should be "Odds being placed in Las Vegas as to whether the DRM removal hack for the Zune will arrive before the device".
The smartest people don't work making DRM schemes; the smartest people play at breaking DRM schemes.
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