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Magnetic Ring Could Launch Satellites, Weapons

MattSparkes writes, "A new study funded by the US Air Force has suggested a cheaper method of sending satellites (possibly missile weapons) into orbit. A 2-km-wide ring of superconducting magnets would contain and propel a payload, accelerating it over a period of hours, before suddenly flinging the satellite into space at 23 times the speed of sound. The satellites would be engineered to withstand the g-forces encountered (2,000 g), and be cased in an aerodynamic shell. A two-year study has been commisioned and will begin within a few weeks at LaunchPoint Technologies in Goleta, California." New Scientist points out that if such a launch ring were built, it would instantly become "one of the most important targets on the planet."

36 of 612 comments (clear)

  1. "Moon is a Harsh Mistress" anybody?? by Churla · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Am I the only one seeing the parallel?

    --
    I'm a fiscal conservative, it's a pity we don't have a political party anymore
    1. Re:"Moon is a Harsh Mistress" anybody?? by Bob-taro · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Just fill the passenger compartment (and passenger's lungs) with an 02 saturated liquid and accelleration ceases to be an issue.
      Sounds good at first, but look what happens in a lab centrifuge -- you'd probably wind up with all your tissues separated into layers of equal density (with the "O2 saturated liquid" somewhere in the middle)!
      --
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    2. Re:"Moon is a Harsh Mistress" anybody?? by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Informative

      Peak for shuttle launch is 3Gs, and for Apollo reentry, exceeded 7Gs (source paper with cited sources). For a launch abort on the Apollo design, stress would have exceeded 16Gs, and this was deemed uncomfortable, but survivable (albeit with an assumed inability to operate controls during the process). (source LBJ Space Center.)

      So limiting it to 2Gs of total stress is very arbitrary and unnecessary.

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    3. Re:"Moon is a Harsh Mistress" anybody?? by doctor_nation · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I was at a presentation last week by the guys in this article.

      The track design is based on particle colliders, so the entire thing is evacuated. Part of it is a rough vacuum and part is a hard vaccum (the actual track). The rough vacuum is because they have to limit thermal transfer to their super-cooled superconducting magnets.

      The acceleration is actually not linear- it's radial. Going around a 2km track at 10km/s has some hefty acceleration associated with it. When ejected into the atmosphere, the projectile shouldn't immediately slow a great deal, although it will lose a lot of momentum before leaving the atmosphere. The design is a very long and skinny cone, to reduce thermal heating and drag force.

      The best thing about this design for a launcher is that it doesn't require a lot of instantaneous power, unlike a linear accelerator. You can accelerate slowly.

      Also, did anyone else immediately think of Xenogears when they saw this?

    4. Re:"Moon is a Harsh Mistress" anybody?? by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Only if your bouyancy is zero and there are no external forces acting on your system. Take blood cells in blood for example: put the blood in a centrafuge and spin it up to speed. The blood cells end up in the bottom of the test tube. That would be you in the launch ring. Except at many thousand Gs, you would look more like the blood cells in the bottom of the test tube than like you.

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    5. Re:"Moon is a Harsh Mistress" anybody?? by Rei · · Score: 4, Informative

      I was reminded of Gerald Bull, one of the great "mad scientists" of our day, and Project HARP. :) Check out the plume leaving the barrel of their research gun. That had to be quite something to see in person.

      Of modern ballistic launch mechanisms, there are lots of neat options ranging from light gas guns to ram accelerators. I also find the concept of ballistically-launched scramjets to be pretty nifty. :)

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    6. Re:"Moon is a Harsh Mistress" anybody?? by WhiplashII · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The gaseous explosion doesn't happen, fortunately. During the Appolo program, a guy in a vaccuum chamber fell down and shattered his face mask - he was very suddenly exposed to total vaccuum. He was consious for a few seconds (say 5-10), and then passed out. It took them another few seconds to bring the chamber back up to atmospheric (say about 20-30 seconds). He was resuscitated, and had no long term injuries from the experience.

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  2. Lost in space by nizo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If the launch rate reached 3000 launches per year, they calculate that would drop to $189 per kilogram. Today, it costs more than 100 times that to send payloads into space.

    However, Epstein says he cannot imagine a demand for that many launches in the foreseeable future.


    Space burials (presumably of cremated remains). At $200 each (plus cremation) I am sure they could sell a few thousand of these per year. Now if they could only figure out a way to allow living people to withstand 2000g of acceleration, space tourism might actually be affordable.

    1. Re:Lost in space by mypalmike · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I can't see any drawbacks in dumping nuclear waste into space.

      Indeed. Also, accelerating it in a 2km circle over several hours to 23 times the speed of sound is not fraught with peril.

      --
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    2. Re:Lost in space by megaditto · · Score: 5, Informative

      You are confusing pressure with acceleration. These are not the same.

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    3. Re:Lost in space by Jerf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nuclear waste is dangerous, but it's not magically dangerous. If we send it up in sufficiently small loads, scattering one across what is probably an isolated area isn't going to be the end of the world. We can clean it up; it doesn't magically contaminate everything it touches for ever and ever with no ability to clean it up. It's just a hazardous material.

      Plus, the containers are already going to have to be strong just to survive normal stresses. I wouldn't be surprised that they already will be specced to survive most catastrophic releases.

      I say this because it's important that people not think that radioactive waste is so magically dangerous that we always need to add "just one more layer" of protection before we're somehow 100% from the radioactivity bogeyman, and thus never take advantage of one of the better energy sources we have. It's an engineering problem, nothing more.

      Ultimately, this point is moot, because the general public already does see radioactivity as magically dangerous and the magical thinkers are going to put themselves into the situation where they'd rather have the (magically dangerous) waste with them on the planet, but out of sight, rather than actually removed from our living space, but briefly and highly-visibly in the air. ... There's a reason I keep coming back to the word "magical". Nothing makes even normally rational, scientifically-minded people unhinge their minds like adding the word "radioactive" to the discussion.

    4. Re:Lost in space by Alef · · Score: 4, Insightful
      At $200 each (plus cremation) I am sure they could sell a few thousand of these per year.

      Well, a few thousand cremated bodies would probably fit inside one single launch, so you would need millions to get that price. Because I seriously doubt the $189/kg figure assumes 1 kg payload/launch.

  3. How cool is that? Intercontinental catapults by patrixmyth · · Score: 5, Funny

    We could fling refrigerators at North Korea! How's that missile testing going, Kim, did we mention we can launch frigidaire's into orbit? I'd prefer launching cows in homage to Monty Python and the Holy Grail, but at 2000g, that would probably equate to throwing hamburger.

    --
    "Don't you know you're going to shock the monkey?"- Peter Gabriel
  4. Mass drivers RULE! by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yes!

    As for it being a target, fuck that. Full steam ahead.

    If we're not driving payloads into space at Mach 23 within 10 years, the terrorists have already won. Or something.

  5. "one of the most important targets on the planet" by k4_pacific · · Score: 5, Funny

    If this ring is going to be "one of the most important targets on the planet", maybe they should build it as a series of concentric rings instead of a single ring. Perhaps havethe rings use alternating colors.

    --
    Unknown host pong.
  6. Gauss Vs. Glue by good+soldier+svejk · · Score: 4, Funny
    That sounds like a big Gauss Gun, AKA rail gun to me. The Germans tried to build long range artillery and anti-aircraft artillery on on this principle during WWII. Makes sense I suppose, as Carl Gauss was German. Of course, it was quickly superceded by their deadly LePage Glue Gun Technology.

    "Yossarian sidled up drunkenly to Colonel Korn at the officers' club one night to kid with him about the new Lepage gun that the Germans had moved in.

    What Lepage gun?" Colonel Korn inquired with curiosity.

    "The new three-hundred-and-forty-four-millimeter Lepage glue gun," Yossarian answered. "It glues a whole formation of planes together in mid-air."

    - Catch-22, Joseph Heller
    "
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  7. First deployment should be.... by dave-tx · · Score: 4, Funny

    Suggestion for the first test: Enter it in next year's Punkin Chunkin' contest!

    --

    >> "What would the robut do? Frame someone!"

  8. one ring to launch them all by m0llusk · · Score: 5, Funny
    One ring to launch them all,
    one ring to fling them.
    One ring to send them into space,
    and into that darkness bring them.
  9. Here: by jbeaupre · · Score: 4, Informative
    --
    The world is made by those who show up for the job.
  10. A few points by argStyopa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First the FUD:
    New Scientist points out that if such a launch ring were built, it would instantly become "one of the most important targets on the planet.
    What a moronic comment.

    You have a STATIC launcher.
    It can toss things into ballistic trajectories.
    One at a time.
    With a warm-up of TENS OF HOURS.

    I don't know if New Scientist realized this, but we have launch technologies that are
    a) less vulnerable
    b) more accurate
    c) mobile
    and
    d) a little quicker to fire than that.

    On another note, and not that this will mollify the crowd that fears a weapon in every technology, but in regards to the difficulty of punching something through the atmosphere at Mach 23, I seem to recall SDI experiments where a high-power laser was used to heat a 'track' through the atmosphere (in that case, to fire a particle beam weapon down the track with less atmospheric attenuation ). Couldn't a similar idea significantly reduce the air resistance for this sort of a projectile?

    --
    -Styopa
  11. Not a rail gun. by MoralHazard · · Score: 4, Informative

    Your lapse is forgivable, but only because the proliferation of terms like "Gauss gun", "rail gun", and "mass driver" in SF has overwhelmed their usage as technical terminology. But the point is, THIS IS NOT A RAIL GUN.

    A rail gun is a parallel, non-touching pair of conductive rails, joined at the back-end by a partial circuit capable of generating an extremely high current flow (amps) of electicity in a very, very short time. A conductive projectile is injected into the gap between the rails (so that it touches both rails at once), which completes the circuit. As current flows from one rail to the other, through the projectile, it generates a powerful magnetic field. The Lorentz force causes the projectile to be pushed toward the far end of the rails--the magnitude of the force depends on the current flow.

    Rail guns can achieve extremely high velocities, far higher than conventional explosive-charge guns. The velocity of a firearm projectile is limited by the velocity of the expanding explosive gasses that propel it out of the barrel; the gas velocity is in turn limited by the speed of sound in the gas medium, which has a physical upper limit for any type of explosive. Rail guns don't suffer from this limitation.

    I have seen references to a 'Gauss gun' which consists of a series of solenoids stationed along a tube barrel, timed to trigger so that a ferrous metal projectile will be pulled faster and faster down the barrel by each of the solenoids in turn. I don't know how valid this terminology is, though.

  12. Arrrgh! by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 4, Funny

    "My pacemaker!"

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
  13. Most important target.... by PHAEDRU5 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You mean, like Vandenberg, and Cape Kennedy, and...

    Anywhere the capability exists to put a payload into orbit is a target.

    That "most important target" bit was a simple piece of scaremongering.

    --
    668: Neighbour of the Beast
  14. It's not for people or sensitive electronics by LotsOfPhil · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What about using this thing to shoot water/food/structural materials into space? That is where the savings really come into play. If there is to be a moon base, all the water has to be shipped up there. People need lots of water, so cutting the cost per kilogram to 1% of current levels is a very big deal.

    --
    This post climbed Mt. Washington.
  15. a_c = - \omega^2 r by Kadin2048 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Except that the proposed design accelerates the payload around in a circle -- using magnets arranged inside a torus -- not a long straight runway. I doubt a linear runway would be practical; it would just be too long. The advantage of a torus is you can keep using the same magnets to accelerate the payload, over and over, until you've reached sufficient speed to let it fly.

    Unless the circle was ridiculously large (probably the size of a continent or better), you're not going to be able to get up to escape velocity before you'd (as a human being) would be crushed by the effects of the centripetal acceleration.

    I'm not going to do the math right now, but I'm pretty confident that of the 6,000 Gs they're quoting, most of them are in the radial direction and not in the tangential, so that even if you brought the payload up to speed slowly, you'd still be crushed. It would be just like being in a centrifuge.

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    1. Re:a_c = - \omega^2 r by radtea · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm not going to do the math right now,

      The speed of sound at sea level is 330 m/s, and a = v*2/r, so at 23*330 = 7590 m/s you would need r ~ 600 km to get a under 10 g.

      Of course, there's going to be a bit of bump when the capsule hits the atmosphere, and there's also the bit of a trick about getting the thing oriented so the capsule if flung upward...

      As a satelite launcher this sounds like a great technology, although I'm not sure who would be "targeting" it or for what purpose...advertisers, maybe? Painting thier logos on it or something? Or some guy hiding in a cave someplace that we're supposed to be all afear'd of?

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    2. Re:a_c = - \omega^2 r by MConlon · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Of course, there's going to be a bit of bump when the capsule hits the atmosphere, and there's also the bit of a trick about getting the thing oriented so the capsule if flung upward...

      You don't need to fling the capsule upwards, you need to fling it horizontally such that it doesn't hit anything. To get into orbit you do not go "up", you go sideways as fast as you can. The advantages of being high up are:

      1. the atmosphere is thinner which means there is less aerodynamic drag on your vehicle, and
      2. there are less things to hit.

      Being "in orbit" is essentially falling without ever hitting the ground.

      MJC
    3. Re:a_c = - \omega^2 r by radtea · · Score: 4, Informative

      The advantages of being high up are... ...negligable. Realistically, you can only get a few kilometers up, unless you're proposing to build it in the Himalayas. It is well known from other mass-driver studies that the aerodynamic advantage of hitting 80 bar at Mach 23 are no big improvement over hitting 100 bar at Mach 23.

      The reason why I mentioned pointing it up is that there is a big advantage to passing through the atmosphere as quickly as possible. Firing a capsule out normal to the local vertical will result in minutes being spent in getting to the top of the atmosphere, by which time you will have lost most of the initial velocity, to say nothing of broken all the windows for kilometers around. If you do the math, it takes about 13 seconds to travel 100 km at Mach 23 (just under 8 km/s). So a 30 degree incline nearly doubles that (you get some benefit from the curvature of the Earth) and things get rapidly worse from there on.

      As the whole point of my calculation was to show how big the thing would have to be to keep the acceleration below 10 g there is no way a 30 degree incline is going to happen--you've have to have a curve so long that the top of it really would be above a significant fraction of the atmosphere.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
  16. Ablative coating by maddogsparky · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The reason that most meteors don't hit the ground is because they are so small. The one that do hit the ground and are found right away often have FROST on them since they were so cold in space. As for exploding into a million pieces, meteors aren't designed for reentry.

    Any compentent aeroshell engineer could design a case that would protect the payload (such as a capsule covered with the stuff they use for ablatively cooling rocket nozzles). The big concern usually with burning through airframes isn't that we don't have materials that can withstand the heat and friction; it is that those materials typically aren't very light-weight or are too expensive.

    Besides, once the track is set up, it should be easy to try out new aeroshell designs! One of the stumbling blocks right now is trying to accellerate a test article to high enough speeds. Very often, they stick a test article on a sounding rocket that sends back data during re-entry.

    And yes, IAARS.

    --
    science is a religion
  17. Bad math? by Bender0x7D1 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Am I crazy, or did they get the math wrong in the article?

    The acceleration equation for circular motion is: a = v^2 / r

    We are given:

    Velocity: 10 kilometers/s

    Width of ring = 2 kilometers, so radius = 1 kilometer

    So:
    v = 10,000 m/s
    r = 1,000 m

    a = (10,000 m/s * 10,000 m/s) / (1,000 meters) = 100,000 m/s^2

    The acceleration due to gravity is about 10 m/s^2

    This gives: (100,000 m/s^2) / (10 m/s^2) = 10,000 g

    So it seems that their 2,000 g is way off. Even if we use 2 km for the radius it is still 5,000 g.

    --
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    1. Re:Bad math? by doctor_nation · · Score: 5, Informative

      Your math is correct. I have an abstract from a presentation these guys gave last week and it lists the radial force at 20 MN (that's mega-Newtons) for a 200 kg projectile = 10,000 G. They don't list the acceleration in G anywhere so it's probably a New Scientist math error.

  18. Re:Why not reduce acceleration? by truthsearch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A few reasons... the ring is kilometers long. Angling it at 30 degrees would force you to build it deep into the ground, high into the air, or both. But more importantly you'd only have one launch trajectory. By having one ring and a mobile launch tunnel you have 360 degrees to choose from (ideally). The ability to change launch direction is probably more important than the complications it adds to the launch physics.

  19. Fuel and Water by WindBourne · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The long-term expensive part about space is not sending equipment up. It is the costs of fuel, water, air, and food i.e. consumables. Fuel and Water can all withstand the high Gs. If this works, the first thing that would make sense is to send all of these up. At that point, you can make the ring pay for a large part of its costs. From there, sats. can be developed that can withstand those forces.

    The down fall is that the privatization world will probably be a bit upset about this.

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  20. Re:Sounds Good, except by NoData · · Score: 5, Informative
    I know there's a relationship between bird migration and magnetic fields, too, as a lot of them blindly smack into the brick walls at a local MRI center.


    Cute, but you gotta be kidding. I work with a 3T research MRI magnetic. Both the machine and the facility are heavily shielded, and the field drop-off is very steep. While the isocenter of the bore is at 3 Tesla (30,000 Gauss), the 5 Gauss line is only a few meters (about 5 in the axial direction, 3 in the radial direction) from the isocenter. By comparison, a kitchen magnet is maybe 100-250 Gauss.
  21. New ad campaign by Comboman · · Score: 4, Funny
    It could be made more economical by making it dual use. Build it between two important land sites. Then it can also be used for cargo.

    Federal Express, when it absolutely, positively has to be there at 23 times the speed of sound *

    * Disclaimer: 23 X speed of sound service available between limited destinations. May be subject to 2000g so please wrap delicate items approprately.

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  22. Fast dead mass is still REALLY useful if its cheap by Big_Breaker · · Score: 4, Informative

    This ring could fling mass up to a skyhook to recharge its orbit. Imagine a LEO skyhook that catches dozens of dead weight shots from this gun and uses that momentum to promote its orbit to a highly eccentric one. Then the satellite can exchange this orbit potential with a target at its low altitude point through a tether or skyhook style method. The target could be a large satellite in LEO or even a suborbital payload. Once the potential is transfered the target can have its orbit promoted to GEO or other significant altitude.

    This method saves a lot of reaction mass in a heavy lifter because you can aim for a high alitutde but a suborbital trajectory. IE it's easier to shoot straight up than curve towards an orbital path at sufficient speed. For instance the X prize is all about sub-orbital. LEO is much harder and GEO is even harder still.