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EU and US Reach Deal On Airline Data
gambit3 writes "According to the BBC, the EU and the US have struck a new deal for sharing airline passenger data. It will replace a deal struck down by the European Court of Justice in May, which allowed the US its own access to passenger data. Under the deal, the EU will 'push' the data — 34 pieces of information per passenger — to the US, replacing the current 'pull' system. The new deal will expire at the end of July 2007."
What are the 34 data items?
1101010001101
Why exactly is that much data needed?
Most forms request only a fraction of that amount. I don't even think I've provided that much information for credit card or loan applications.
Wasn't push technology a still-born concept in the mid 90s? I tried PointCast once, and only once. I'm glad push technology died. Push technology, or the uncontrollable incoming flow of content, just does not work on the Internet, thats what TV is for. What's that? I'm only vaguely on topic? Oh sorry... I guess I should be grateful they (the EU) aren't using more recently developed methods of data streaming. It could be worse, passenger data could be available as an RSS feed!
I hate printers.
Old system: US pulls 34 items of data about each passenger.
New system: EU pushes 34 items of data about each passenger.
Unless the data itself has dramatically changed, I really can't see any functional difference. So how is this any better?
Once the data leaves the hands of the EU, it is beyond the control of the EU. DHS can (and will, I'm sure) give it to anyone they want to. I have little reason to believe that won't include corporations that are willing to pay off the right people.
So, really, how is this any better than what the U.S. was demanding to begin with, other than the fact that the EU gets to decide ahead of time whose data gets sent to the U.S.? For ordinary people, it seems to me that this is no different. Only people with "special" standing within the EU (i.e., those who have special connections to the people who decide what data goes out) will be protected.
The actions of all governments with respect to the rights, liberties, and protections of the people have become so predictable that it's depressing. :-(
Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
We should just tell the US to go fuck themselves over the data and not travel there. If anything US airline security has been shown to be so poor we should be the one imposing the ridiculous restrictions on them coming here.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
US: Hey EU, we need to talk about your Pieces of Information
EU: Oh, is there a problem, I thought I was giving you the right number, 34 is the minimum right?
US: Oh, yes, 34 is the minimum number of pieces of information, if you just want to do the minimum
US: Look at Bulgaria over there, they give 54 pieces of information, don't you want to be like Bulgaria?
EU: Look, if you want 54 pieces of information, just make the minimum 54
US: I just want you to want to do more than the minimum
Sorry, I forget the actual script, that's off the top of my head.
In Soviet Russia^H^H^H^H EU airline reports YOU!
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
One saying "bend over" and the other one saying "please harder"?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
If the EU gets the same access to US databases im a ok with this. Somehow i suspect the US would never bend over and take it like that. Only the EU is so cowardly bent over for their new puppet lors.
HTTP/1.1 400
The U.S. will "twist" the information from the E.U. nipples, instead of "pulling" the information from the E.U. underwear.
A person who has a long history of checking in his baggage, but then not boarding on flights that later mysteriously blew up?
Brilliant!
FRA: STFU GTFO
Just some background info.
Europe and US has a huge difference in privacy rights. In Europe the individual owns his own data. In the US the entity (read corporation) owns whatever they can collect (And sell).
In Norway, for example, if you are unhappy with your credit rating, you just call them and tell them that they have to erase all data they have on you. (This will of course not result in a good score of course). Companies can not keep any information other than what is needed to complete a customer transaction. They can not sell it. The information belongs to you. A patchwork of laws are added to create "holes" in this "firewall" of privacy. Like credit reporting agencies
In the US, Corporations owns whatever they can get, and can sell it as they like. There is no "Privacy firewall" A patchwork of laws is applied in an attempt to plug the glaring errors in this system.
don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
No see, the US said "I'm just gonna take it from you and you're gonna like it," and the EU said, "You can't take it from me if I give it to you, you big stud!" and then wet slapping sounds were heard.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Funny, but I don't see terrorists these days showing up to the airport to buy a one way ticket in cash, ordering a Halal meal, and pre booking a tour of The White House and The Capitol.
IMHO they are demanding this data because they need to be seen to be doing something, and because the current US government has had a good deal of success with bullying tactics. So tell me: if I paid for my ticket with a credit card issued to an online gambling company, will I be arrested? Will I come under suspicion if one of the other members of the group I am travelling with is on the infamous "No Fly" list? Will the fact that I have dual citizenship and two passports, and that I use either passport depending on destination, raise flags? Let's say my visa was issued on one passport, but somehow the record shows the other one?
This is just an excuse for a massive fishing expedition, and I fully expect the information they get to be misused. The current US government has demonstrated repeatedly that it cannot be trusted, and will do whatever it wants to regardless of international agreements, common sense, or fair play.
It is too bad that the EU knuckled under on this. America can apply American law all it wants in America, but it has to get over this thinking that its laws supercede those of other sovereign nations.
Fly Austrian Airlines (www.aua.at), it got a special status and they only transmit 10 fields to the US. Apparently the small market share was sufficient to have them slip through the rake. Here is the Austrian press (sorry, it's in German): http://futurezone.orf.at/business/stories/141834/
Have fun.
"I plan on blowing up the plane."
FRA: STFU GTFO
Sorry, I don't have an account - but I am not an anonymous coward either, my name is Aaron, hi!
Lets look at this in a way that does not assume that just because America is getting this data that George Bush is reading it and laughing. Let's say someone is flying into New York from Paris with a one-way ticket bought in cash from a travel agent in Afghanistan, lets look closer at him. His flight history shows he flies into Syria and Lebanon regularly, he is 22 year old male, and he requested an aisle seat near the cockpit. Peronally I am glad they have this info, not so they can arrest him on the spot, but so the Air Marshall can keep a closer eye on him.
But what do I know, I am just a stupid American, I probably deserve to have a plane flown into my office building.
When governments collude, you and I lose rights.
Well, I guess that isn't news: whenever governments to anything, you and I lose rights.
[ home ]
One less clueless leftist tourist!
This looks very similar to "if you don't do it voluntarily, we'll force you".
- RG>
Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
"Under the deal, the EU will 'push' the data -- 34 pieces of information per passenger -- to the US, replacing the current 'pull' system."
So, basically; dont even bother asking for it, we will give it to you just like that.
Yup. Got to watch out for all those Sikh terrorists...
I see that you are not aware of the whole Air India Flight 182 bombing situation been going on since 1985. It was the most deadly terrorist attack involving aircraft until September 11, 2001. It is also the largest mass murder in Canadian history.
Place a Mohommed drawing on the floor in front of the door to the plane, so that you can't avoid stepping on it if you board the plane.
Make all the seats on the plane be leather... from pigs.
Anybody could be a terrorist. Profiling is useless and lazy.
Governments resort to this instead of the hard work of genuine intelligence gathering.
If governments are waiting for the information about passengers in a flight before actin, we are already at danger.
Good intelligence would mean a real dangerous person would not even manage to get a foot in the airport, perhaps not even manage to buy a ticket, before being busted.
Profiling of passengers is an exercise of hand waving to the peanut gallery.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
The alternative universe in which politicians move defies normal logic.
The only formal difference is that in Europe you have higer protection in regards how your personal data is used, but I am sure that if you don't allow that data to be used you will not fly.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
When you are working in big projects you flight often to the same place, and often you have to miss flights due to last minute plans.
Profiling does not work. It is hand weaving for the peanut gallery....
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I refuse to be submitted to the insulting handling of US immigration. Not even Vietnam immigration people were as nasty as US immigration are.
I could save money making stop overs in the US but I don't, I prefer to pay a bit more but to be treated with some respect and dignity.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I have been in places like Vietnam, Namibia, the Philippines and Indonesia (Suharto era) as well as many other more potable places. I have acquantices that have actually been to Burma (may their companies be shamed forevever).
I can confidently say that US immigration is unpolite, aggressive and downright racist.
As for security, it is similar to Europe now, but the US was the one that upgraded.
I remeber my first travel to the US and watched in horror in the way back as they allowed pretty much anybody and his dog to bid farewell to their friends and relatives in the boarding gates. This was in Houston, not in a small regional airport.... This was at a a time when in Mexico you would not be allowed into the plane with small items that could be dangerous (screwdrivers for example).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.