Open Source Foes In Bed With Abramoff

Will Rodger writes, "Citizens Against Government Waste has said some highly critical things about open source software in the past. They've also pounced on supporters of the OpenDocument Format along the way. Alas, it seems their close ties to Jack Abramoff have drawn the (unfavorable) attention of Senate staff."

Comments

Vote the bums out

[BWJones]

"What is most important, however, is that this matter is kept discreet," Abramoff wrote to a colleague at the Preston, Gates & Ellis law firm. "We do not want the opponents to think that we are trying to buy the taxpayer movement."

This comment is perhaps the most telling in that it shows that Abramoff *knew* what he was doing was wrong and that this would not even pass the sniff test.

The groups are Norquist's Americans for Tax Reform; the Council of Republicans for Environmental Advocacy, which was co-founded by Norquist and Gale Norton before she became Secretary of the Interior; Citizens Against Government Waste; the National Center for Public Policy Research, which was a spinoff of the Heritage Foundation; and Toward Tradition, a religious group founded by Abramoff friend Rabbi Daniel Lapin.

This is the sort of incestuous behavior that the current Republican and NeoCon administration encourages. Of course the whako left is not immune from this sort of behavior either, but it seems to have reached a new high in the current political climate. So, regardless of your political leanings, please recognize that this is not the way to run a democratic (small "d") government and now is the time to clean house in next months elections. I'd love to see a complete overhaul of all sitting candidates in favor for new blood, Democrat *and* Republican who can hopefully work together in a more non-partisan way to actually do something rather than continuously position and campaign.

As an aside: How many days a week are our representatives and senators actually on the job in DC? What is their work week like? Anybody here know?

Re:Vote the bums out

[ScrewMaster]

I'd love to see a complete overhaul of all sitting candidates in favor for new blood, Democrat *and* Republican who can hopefully work together in a more non-partisan way to actually do something rather than continuously position and campaign.

To quote Lewis Black: "The only thing stupider than a Republican or a Democrat is when these little pricks work together."

Re:Vote the bums out

[illegalcortex]

Just because you don't agree with the JEWS (that's what you mean by neocon, right - you totally give yourself away there)

Speaking only for myself, I have heard and used the term for quite some time before I'd ever heard the whole jewish conspiracy angle. So there's at least ONE person out there who says neocon not because they're anti-semitic, but because they need some term to distinguish between old style conservatives and new style conservatives. I think such a term is needed, as I agree on many points with old style conservatives, but far fewer with the current incarnation.

Re:Vote the bums out

[Rei]

Well, I'll put it this way: when my uncle was in the US House, he was busy nonstop. I lived at his house during that time, and he made it home (to his new home which he had just built before he was elected, and which he loves) for 1-2 evenings a month. The rest of the time he was in a little apartment in DC or other places in work-related travel. He worked on things related to his job almost nonstop. Late in his term, he had a heart attack. His doctor gave him a choice: cut down on the stress, or die early. He didn't run again.

Also, I should add that you're stereotyping of all politicians as being the same is pretty silly and unjustified. It's hard for most people to realize that these are people -- all with their own individual beliefs, opinions, principles, and moral convictions.

Talking about trying to get people to get more accomplished is contrary the very design of our government, which tries to slow down legislative action. You don't *want* laws too change too quickly, or a short-term shift in the balance of power can lead to long-lasting negative rammifications. And, contrary to popular belief, "compromises" are not necessarily better than *either* side, let alone the particular side that one chooses to believe in. Should the north have "compromised" on the issue of slavery -- "Well, you can keep them as slaves, but they get days off"? Should we have compromised on ending Vietnam -- "Well, we'll take *half* of our troops and equipment from Vietnam"? Of course not.

People stick to their moral viewpoints because they believe that they're right and a compromise is bad. When they think that a compromise is in the best interests of the nation, they work toward it. It all depends on the situation.

Talking about trying to get people to get more accomplished is contrary the very design of our government, which tries to slow down legislative action. You don't *want* laws too change too quickly, or a short-term shift in the balance of power can lead to long-lasting negative rammifications. And, contrary to popular belief, "compromises" are not necessarily better than *either* side, let alone the particular side that one chooses to believe in. Should the north have "compromised" on the issue of slavery -- "Well, you can keep them as slaves, but they get days off."? Should we have compromised on ending Vietnam -- "Well, we'll take *half* of our troops and equipment from Vietnam."? Of course not.

People stick to their moral viewpoints because they believe that they're right and a compromise will work out poorly. When they think that a compromise is in the best interests of the nation, they work toward it. It all depends on the situation.

Re:Vote the bums out

[Marxist Hacker 42]

This is totally Democratic. There are thousands of organizations in DC representing all stripes of citizenry. They work to get people who agree with them elected and then work to help direct that policy after the elections.

Ok, so who is representing the guy who lives paycheck to paycheck and would be homeless (along with his wife and children) if his job got outsourced? I don't know of a single lobbyist who works for free, do you?

Re:Vote the bums out

[7Prime]

Bi-partisian-ism, is as bad for people as are oil companies who collaborate to fix gas prices. One of the basic principals of capatalism is that any system works best if all parties (be it corporate or political) are under the pressure of competition, and even better if that competition is fairly even, so that all parties are constantly having to look over their shoulder. What we have now is a bloated government caused by a severe imbalance of power, a political monopoly, of sorts, by the extreme right. Just as bad as a monopoly, however, is the consistant agreement between parties. Way too much blood has already been spilt under the cliched and dubious banner of "bipartisanship". No, what we need are strong leaders who will fight for their convictions, but who are willing to play by the rules set by the US consitution. THAT'S how a good system works. Some of the most prosperous periods in US history were caused by a balance of power... the 90's being one of them. Both Clinton and the Congress were at their best when they were at odds with each other... that was a fine example of our system of checks and balances in operation.

The term "bipartisan" is simply a catch phrase, used, usually by the far right, as a way of trying to move the public perception of the "center" over to their side. It's a Rovian tactic, it's anti-capitalist, it's tacky, and most of all, it's not even an idea that we really want. What we need is compromise under the pressure of heated debate... NOT Bipartisanship.

Re:Vote the bums out

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Of course, my point is that as long as money is considered free speech, it doesn't matter who is in power- those who are rich will be able to afford lobbyists, those who are middle class or poor won't; and union dues don't change that. Neither does voting- Democrats and Republicans are purchased just about equally- all choices on the ballot have been bought and paid for.

Re:Vote the bums out

[Rei]

If you can't argue with him, just shut up, eh?

Aha -- this isn't actually about what the parent wrote after all! It's because the parent's username, MBraynard, suggest's that he's SWEDISH. You think that all SWEDES are inferior scum, don't try to hide it by couching your words. Take your anti-nordicism elsewhere!

(/sarcasm)

Re:Vote the bums out

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Parent should be modded up- this is the way things are supposed to work.

However, I don't know how long ago your uncle served in the US House, but the events of the last 15 years, particularily the last 5, have basically proven to me that if anybody is in Congress due to their conscience they made it there because their conscience conviently fits in with the multinational corporate cabal that pays for our campaigns through lobbyists.

Re:Vote the bums out

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Only 3 out of every 100 American workers currently belongs to a union- and companies like Wal*Mart work very hard to close any retail store that tries to form one. So that is not an adequate answer.

Re:Vote the bums out

[oohshiny]

NeoCon actually has a very old etymology going back to around 1921

The fact that the term was used first in 1921 doesn't tell you anything about what it means today. Today, it's a useful, descriptive term that is used both by conservatives and by their opponents. Whatever political baggage it has today has been created by the neo-conservatives and their heritage from Reagan onwards.

and has no basis other than political.

Yes, indeed: we're using political terminology to describe political concepts.

But you apparently subscribe to the typical neo-conservative view that "we're right, and everybody else is wrong and trying to get in our way with politics".

Re:Vote the bums out

[sheldon]

Neocon doesn't mean Jew.

Re:Vote the bums out

[Marxist Hacker 42]

So what you're saying is that most choices can't be broken down simply to two different solutions?

No, what I'm saying is that we're really only presented with ONE solution for any given problem- vote in the guy who was bought and paid for by the corporations. It doesn't matter what party you vote for, the option is still the same.

Welcome to pretty much every democracy outside of the USA :)

If we had more than one solution, it would be welcome to DEMOCRACY.

All of them?

[Mendak Jemuna]

All of them?

Must be a big bed.

Re:All of them?

[Tackhead]

> All of them?
>
>Must be a big bed.

It went well until everyone decided to do introductions and handshakes.

"Foley, Jack Abramoff."

Then things got weird.

Citizens Against Govt Waste

[ackthpt]

I've often wondered about this group. They remind me of something my college accounting prof. warned us about. (He's a CMA-Certified Management Accountant, outside the classroom.) Bean counters should never be put in charge of a business, long-term. They tend to focus too much on the money aspect rather than if the long-term is better served by a few extra expenses, e.g. getting a tetanus shot for $ rather than fighting the disease later for $$$$$.

CAGW has struck me as being too pennywise in the past. Not that they haven't had some good points, but their focus is often too narrow.

Looks like this kind of irony is something they could use, if they chose to, as a learning experience.

Re:Citizens Against Govt Waste

[Mateo_LeFou]

I don't know if "kooks" is quite fair, but they do seem to rail about inflammatory issues, rather than issues that really affect the national economy.

example: I did the math, and I think "pork barrel" spending amounted to about 1% of the national budget ($23B of 2 or so trillion). Pork is bad on principle, of course, but if you think that's the biggest waste in America's federal budget you're just parroting something you heard on talk radio.

More info about what exactly they said...

[KingSkippus]

If you're like me, you're probably wondering, "The who said what about what?"

Wikipedia to the rescue.

Read on past the Linux stuff. This is the same group that took money from Phillip Morris and then (can you imagine?) complained that the Department of Health and Human Services report on the dangers of smokeless tobacco was a waste of taxpayer money. Go figure.

Abramoff also in bed with software patent trolls

[linefeed0]

This is a repost of a comment I have made previously, but I think the connection is important. Jack Abramoff took money to lobby on behalf of a company, eLottery, whose business model basically depends on software and business method patents in order to raise the cash they need to spend on lobbyists. Without the patents, there would at best be a trade association for such companies in a competitive market, probably more open in its dealings with government as well.

An article several months ago in the Washington Post described more about how Jack Abramoff took money to influence congressional proceedings. In this case, it was to scuttle a bill that would have prohibited state lotteries from going online. As with his work with Indian casinos, Abramoff pulled strings to get otherwise anti-gambling members of Congress to vote against a law prohibiting companies like eLottery from conducting lotteries over the Internet.

Oh, did I say "companies like"? Oops, no, just eLottery. They seem to have some patents "broadly covering Internet retailing of state lottery tickets". In other words, software patents, or actually business model patents (legalized monopolies) disguised as them. Of course, those patents let them raise capital from investors eager to profit from that legalized monopoly. Where did that capital go? Right into lobbyists' pockets.

CAGW once ran a hit piece on me

[touretzky]

Citizens Against Government Waste once ran a hit piece on me, prompted by the Church of Scientology. (What I don't know is whether the Scientologists actually paid them cash to do it, or merely supplied the material.) They ran this piece without ever attempting to contact me or Carnegie Mellon University to verify their facts, or ask for a comment. They also didn't have the guts to post the URL for the web site they were complaining about, which concerned the Sherman Austin free speech case. As far as I can tell,they're just a bunch of clowns pretending to guard the people's interests while cynically pursuing their own -- much like the rest of Washington.

Re:CAGW once ran a hit piece on me

[touretzky]

The cagw.org article you linked to, nowhere mentions Scientology.

Of course not. These people aren't stupid. But at the time the article came out, Scientology was conducting a defamation campaign against me that included, among other things, anonymous faxes to various media outlets, most of whom were too smart to take the bait. But CAGW was eager to cooperate -- and very sloppy in their "reporting". Failing to contact me or the university for a response is simply inexcusable, but it's what one would expect with a deliberate hit-piece.

Told 'ya so! I wrote about this half a year ago.

[Bruce Perens]

In my Open Source State of the Union given at the Boston LinuxWorld Expo, on April 5, I mentioned the Abramoff connection. It's interesting to see more documentation.

Bruce

Jack Abramoff?

[Shishberg]

Who's Abram?

Are They Really *Evil*?

[Doc Ruby]

Abramoff's other business with Dennis Hastert (R-IL) included a child slavery industry in Saipan, the Northern Marianas Islands US territory (near the Phillipines). Sex slavery and manufacturing slavery (child and adult). Hastert was simultaneously covering up for Mark Foley (R-FL) while Foley was molesting House pages. Interestingly, ABC News' Brian Ross broke both stories, but hasn't yet connected them.

Abramoff raised money to elect Republicans, Hastert controlled those House Republicans (and through their majority, the House). Together they made laws for the past 6+ years.

Now they're revealed to be in league to suppress open source. Are these Republicans really evil, or does it just require corrupt politicians to give evildoers the advantage they need to win? Is there a difference?

Abramoff a real piece of work

[Anonymous Coward]

I recently watched this Moyers special on pbs about Abramoff and DeLay. Definitely worth a viewing.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/moyersonamerica/capitol/ index.html

Corrupted Windows Filing System

[Doc Ruby]

'"What is most important, however, is that this matter is kept discreet," Abramoff wrote to a colleague at the Preston, Gates & Ellis law firm. "We do not want the opponents to think that we are trying to buy the taxpayer movement."'

Preston Gates & Ellis: 'The "Gates" in the firm's name is William H. Gates, Sr., father of Microsoft founder Bill Gates.'

Abramoff's gang of Republicans took control of the entire elected government in 2001.

"The DOJ, now under the administration of U.S. President George W. Bush, announced on September 6, 2001 that it was no longer seeking to break up Microsoft and would instead seek a lesser antitrust penalty."

Re:Absolute Power

[Pig Hogger]

Publically financed elections would save lots of money. Politicians would have to convince the voters to vote for them by words and actions instead of their fund-raising prowess. They would no longer be indebted to big money interests, but to each voter equally. They would not have to spend half their lives chasing the big money and instead could spend it talking to and working for their constituents.

In Canada, political parties receive money according to the number of votes they received at the last election.

During elections, only political parties can run advertising, and each advertisement, down to each poster and pamhplet has to be accounted for.

There are also talks of absolutely prohibiting croporate political donations, like it has been the case in Québec for nearly 30 years.

Canada always have had 3 parties (conservatives, liberals, new-democrats [labour]), which makes for a more balanced parliament, even more so for the last 2-3 years where minority governments have been elected.

Re:Not to say it's wrong, mind you...

[Doc Ruby]

That article at the Daily Kos to which I linked itself links, in it's third sentence, to the ABC News transcript of 5/24/99 documenting Brian Ross investigating Abramoff's slavery biz in Saipan. But the Daily Kos article was written by someone who's been covering the abuses in the islands for a long time. It includes copies of Preston, Gates lobbyist conspiracies to protect the Marianas abuses. And compiles lots of other cited evidence into a good picture of the racket Abramoff's Republicans, including Delay and Hastert, were running in their "Conservative Paradise", making a travesty of American borders, Chinese trade, and other "Conservative" values. Read it and judge for yourself. That's the power of the Web. Google the facts presented in DKos, and make your own decision.

So instead of seeing a Daily Kos link and caving in to Republican "shoot the messenger" copouts, just click it and see all the facts and logic painting this picture. Not that you are copping out, but others reading this thread have to fight off several layers of Republican media brainwashing. We're just here to help.

Re:Not to say it's wrong, mind you...

[Beryllium Sphere(tm)]

http://www.american.edu/TED/saipan.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05/09/real.delay/
http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/sweatshops /saipan/abc040100.html
http://www.msmagazine.com/spring2006/paradise_full .asp

Re:..and the sheeple will follow the next batch

[Deagol]

I love how people like you seem believe that only THIS batch of politicians is bad and if we change for others, it will change.

To concentration of power in the same boys' club is the problem. Turn things upside-down, and mix things up a little -- like the whole Tower of Babel thing.

The new blood in the House and Senate may very well be as potentially corrupt (some day) as the current batch of incumbants. However, the incumbants (many have been around for seemingly forever -- see my Utah's Orrin Hatch as an example) have spent years acquiring power and connections.

Throwing out the baby with the bath water this election would bring the government to a screeching halt, which is just what we need.

My voting philosophy in 2004 was: 1) Vote 3rd party if there is such a candidate; 2) Vote Democrat if between Democrat vs Republican; 3) If between candidates of the same party, vote out the incumbant. I'll do the same this election

Re:Abramoff also in bed with software patent troll

[fermion]

My concern here is that we are getting away from judging this man based on his terrorist type behavior, that of subversion of the democratic process, and instead judging him based on the fact that his clients are people that many would tend not to agree with. This is clearly not a useful direction. I don't care is Abramoff was working to fund a guaranteed cure for cancer. The ends does not justify the means, and subversion of legitimate democratic processes are never acceptable.

Let's be clear here. To me the issue is not that he was working with patent mongers, or war mongers, or closed source fundamentalists, or that he worked with the devil incarnate Rove. The issue is that we are allowed our democracy to be subverted by fear, greed, and ignorance, and all we can do it sit back and watch our little tv, and go to our little pro government rallies, and uncritically consume the propaganda that is fed to us by whatever political machine is our favorite. Would we be having this conversation if Abromoff were best friends with RMS?

Re:Absolute Power

[lawpoop]

"There are also talks of absolutely prohibiting croporate political donations,"

There may be talk, but for decades now, the Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that corporations are legal persons, and enjoy all the constitutional protections afforded to persons. So, if we ever passed a law that forbade corporate political donations, the Supreme Court would strike it down as unconstitutional. And corporations would certainly bring it all the way up to the Supreme Court.

The only way to fix this clusterfack is a constitutional amendment removing corporations' personhood.

Re:Absolute Power

[Rayonic]

In Canada, political parties receive money according to the number of votes they received at the last election.

So it supports the incumbent party the most, is what you're saying. Sadly, that's what most "clean election" laws end up doing.

During elections, only political parties can run advertising, and each advertisement, down to each poster and pamhplet has to be accounted for.

Another good one, it means groups like labor unions, the ACLU, and the NRA can't run issue-specific ads. This is especially bad since there are often other law-related measures on the ballot other than who gets elected.

There are also talks of absolutely prohibiting croporate political donations, like it has been the case in Québec for nearly 30 years.

Sounds good on the surface, but individual executives and shareholders can still donate big bucks (and get around donation limit laws).

Re:Absolute Power

[Shotgun]

But we have a Constitution that says a rich man can spend his money to say anything he likes.

My solution is to get away from trying to eliminate free speech, and start trying to promote it. The citizens still own the airwaves. Appoint a date each year in which all broadcasters must transmit the "Official Debates". Everyone on the ballot will be invited, though not required to participate. Each candidate will be allowed to enter a question(s) for the debate, and everyone in the debate will be given equal time to answer ("I choose not to answer" being a valid answer).

Now, voters can decide to listen to the "Official Debates" and hear from all the candidates, and all the issues (people will run independant just to raise issues, which I believe to be a valid endeavor). Or they can listen to the idiotic commercials. I believe only half the people are of below average intelligence.