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Writing a Good Technical Resume?

SuperMallen asks: "As a newly minted hiring manager, I've spent the last few weeks plowing through the large pile of resumes for one of my open positions. The varying formatting and quality of the resumes has stunned me. People do everything from a short list of jobs and positions to essays on each and every project they ever thought about in a job. Everyone seems to subscribe to the 'here's a giant pile of technologies I'm familiar with at the top' school, but I usually ignore this and go straight for their past work history and glean from there. Surely the Slashdot community can help point out what makes for good formatting and content in a technical resume. I'd love to also see some good sample resumes people have used in the past, and any good websites or book recommendations on how to write these effectively, so we can all spend less time reading and writing bad ones."

137 comments

  1. Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Write "Karma on /.: karma_value"

    1. Re:Hmm by ditto999999999999999 · · Score: 1

      I would find that attractive.

    2. Re:Hmm by hdparm · · Score: 3, Funny

      Heh. I actually did this. Response was mixed - from complete ignorance (recruitment agents) to positive surprise by some (tech) hiring people. I fell of a chair when one email reply started with:

      Hi, Karma Whore :-)

    3. Re:Hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hey,
      i dont have the knowledge so i will ask. (google didnt seem to have a good repsonse) what does "Karma on /.: karma_value" imply?

      thanks!

  2. I know your pain. by onion2k · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've had occasion to read through stacks of Curriculum Vitea (I'm English) in my job. It's truly a soul destroying task. I don't have any links to samples but experience has taught me one universal truth: Long lists of skills mean nothing. People put everything they've ever heard of. It comes to the interview and it goes along the lines of "You know Perl well? No, but I walked past the Camel book in a library once.". If there isn't any mention of using the skill then the chances are the candidate hasn't ever used it professionally. I've updated my CV to put jobs and key projects with a description of the skills used in each first now.

    1. Re:I know your pain. by WasterDave · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've had occasion to read through stacks of Curriculum Vitea (I'm English)
      Then lern to spel propper. It's "vitae".
      Long lists of skills mean nothing
      You know that. I know that. The candidates know that. Unfortunately the droid at the employment agency doesn't. They are given a list of buzzwords to match and a pile of CV's. Any CV's that match the buzzwords get their addresses tippexed out and are faxed through to you. Daft, innit?

      Dave

      --
      I write a blog now, you should be afraid.
    2. Re:I know your pain. by cperciva · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've had occasion to read through stacks of Curriculum Vitea (I'm English)
      Then lern to spel propper. It's "vitae".

      Also, it's "Curricula Vitae", not "Curriculum Vitae", unless he was reading a CV which arrived in multiple volumes.
    3. Re:I know your pain. by WasterDave · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oh, very nice. "+1 - Well aimed pedantry" ... or is that the thing involving sheep and Wellingtons?

      Dave

      --
      I write a blog now, you should be afraid.
    4. Re:I know your pain. by hdparm · · Score: 1

      Well, he said "English" - word in question is Latin. Just a typo, probably. As to the buzzwords problem - I don't think that's as bad as it used to be. Employers have finally figured that this was such a huge waste of everybody's time. At least in NZ, major job site mostly contains straight forward job ads, with clearly listed requirements.

    5. Re:I know your pain. by MattBurke · · Score: 2, Informative

      Indeed. I've lost count of the amount of times I've had to do one-off CVs for agencies with stupid stuff anyone familiar with the work would take for granted like "pc hardware" and "vi" listed in the huge list of acronyms at the top (there only for the sake of matching on agencies searches).

      The worst thing about dealing with agencies is their tendancy to treat skills as objects - 'you've "got" linux and bind but you haven't "got" vi so I won't put you forward for this role' - ARRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!

    6. Re:I know your pain. by KDan · · Score: 1

      One of the main things I look for in a technical CV is evidence of technical work *outside* of the office. I've found that someone more junior but who plays with techhnology as a hobby will be significantly more performant than someone who is apparently more experienced but only does it as a day job.

      Daniel

      --
      Carpe Diem
    7. Re:I know your pain. by Cassini2 · · Score: 1

      When hiring a minimal work experience, projects outside of school and work is often a strong indicator of talent. It also really reduces the list of applicants.

      Often, the students that like technology enough to play are the students that you want in a technology project. Engineers need to want to do the work; they need to like the field. If you can find an applicant that likes the material, then that is the person you want to hire. These people will be motivated employees.

      On the other hand, it is also depressing to go through a list of 3rd year software engineering students and realize that none of them have ever coded anything significant for fun. You really want to find the exception that has wrote a Windows program in C++ (or anything else) before. I get really sceptical when I hear students talk about Eiffel, Scheme, and Haskell programming ability. Those are good training languages, but have you ever coded anything real? I want the student that has coded a real program. A program written for fun. A program that was not a compulsory part of a mandatory course.

    8. Re:I know your pain. by Mouse42 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Long lists of skills mean nothing
      You know that. I know that. The candidates know that. Unfortunately the droid at the employment agency doesn't. They are given a list of buzzwords to match and a pile of CV's. Any CV's that match the buzzwords get their addresses tippexed out and are faxed through to you. Daft, innit?

      Yes, very true. Due to this, I usually modify my resume for each job. I first evaluate the company, and try to surmise who will be reading my resume, and then modify it to fit.

      If I'm being hired/interviewed by someone who has barely a grasp on what I'd be doing, I dumb it down a lot, and focus more on end accomplishments and buzzwords. If I'm being hired/interviewed by someone who could do my job if they had the time, then I gear it as if I'm talking to a peer, and focus more on process and techniques.

    9. Re:I know your pain. by itwerx · · Score: 1

      Oh, very nice. "+1 - Well aimed pedantry" ... or is that the thing involving sheep and Wellingtons?

      Heh, cute! Wish I had mod points to give you a +1 Funny. :)

    10. Re:I know your pain. by dasunt · · Score: 1

      The list of skills is more beneficial when the hiring process is composed of non-technical people.

      Technical people will look at the resume and (hopefully) look at the experience to see what skills the potential employee has.

      Non-technical people will look at the skill list and check off skills they believe they need.

    11. Re:I know your pain. by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Perhaps there should be two sets of listings on the resumé, titled "Buzzwords" and "Skills I Actually Have."

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    12. Re:I know your pain. by garnetlion · · Score: 1

      Oh my god, are either of you hiring? Because seriously, most of my experience on my resume was done for my own amusement. I've got academic experience too, but somehow I don't think "Some bullshit assignment involving pointers, and maybe some templates or something." looks real impressive on a resume.

    13. Re:I know your pain. by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 1

      It's nice to be able to do this, but it gets old after you've done that for the 300th time without much in the way of results.

      I have a somewhat lengthy list of skills on my somewhat dated resume (I really should update it), but I don't put anything on there that I don't know relatively well, and I've had the strangest items on that list result in promising job interviews.

      --
      Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
      The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
    14. Re:I know your pain. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately many managers put too much emphasis on the language, system, or tools used by the candidates. In my opinion it's better to look for person who has track record. Being familiar with a computer language helps in short term, but a smart guy should be able to learn one easily.

    15. Re:I know your pain. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a contractor in the UK, and as any contractor knows, there are two people you have to get through to get a job - the employer is the second one. Most contract work is found through agencies, and the agents find people to call or email by doing keyword searches through their C.V. databases. If they key in "T-SQL", because that's what the employer listed as one of the job requirements, and your C.V. has paragraphs about your prowess with SQL, and Microsoft SQL Server, but doesn't mention "T-SQL", then the employer will never get to see the C.V.

    16. Re:I know your pain. by dodobh · · Score: 1

      So if someone puts: *Wrote Perl6 interpreter in Haskell*, that wouldn't be considered?

      --
      I can throw myself at the ground, and miss.
    17. Re:I know your pain. by Cassini2 · · Score: 1

      It would differentiate you from the pile. I would still be looking for something in a "real" programming language, like C, C++, VB, C#, or something Web Related (HTML, Python). I would be wondering why you wrote something in Haskell? You better have a reason for picking a language widely used neither on a Windows Platform, nor on an AS/400 platform, nor on a Linux platform.

    18. Re:I know your pain. by mgblst · · Score: 1

      I think you really need to focus on one area, and pursue that. That was my big breakthrough - don't go after everything, in the hope of catching anything (it is not like looking for women on a Friday night!), but send out a couple of well researching applications.

    19. Re:I know your pain. by Senzei · · Score: 1
      You know that. I know that. The candidates know that. Unfortunately the droid at the employment agency doesn't. They are given a list of buzzwords to match and a pile of CV's. Any CV's that match the buzzwords get their addresses tippexed out and are faxed through to you. Daft, innit?
      I have at times seriously considered putting a list of every acronym and technology that might remotely be related to what I am applying for at the top of the resume under the heading "Buzzword Bingo". I think if I ever get on a team reviewing applications I will submit one like that just to see the response it gets.
      --
      Slashdot: Where anecdotes and generalizations can be freely substituted for facts, logic, or intelligence
    20. Re:I know your pain. by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 1

      I ended up breaking my resume up into five base versions (Unisys mainframe, IBM mainframe/COBOL, UNIX programming, PC hardware/software support, and a generic application programmer resume), each concentrating on a particular set of technologies and/or basic types of experience that were somewhat related to each area.

      That saved me quite a bit of effort when customizing things later on to fit a given position.

      When one has been working in the technical arena for a while, especially if one has help multiple positions during that time, the chances are fairly good that you're going to be experienced in more than one area, so I disagree that you want to concentrate on just one thing.

      You *do* need to find a way to focus your efforts, of course, but that isn't the same thing.

      --
      Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
      The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
    21. Re:I know your pain. by irishdaze · · Score: 1

      PLEASE find a reason to post the response/s you get on /.

      --
      -- Dedicated Cthulhu cultist since 1982 A.C.E.
    22. Re:I know your pain. by budgenator · · Score: 1

      You young grasshopper has been seriously trolled, and forever when I see your UID on slashdot I'll chuckle to myself and think "what a clueless PHB "; you Kung-Fu is weak! The only working interpreter for the unrelaesed Perl 6 is the interpreter written in Haskel. Secondly why in the world would you include VB in with C, C++ and C#. Thirdy why pair HTML and Python ones a programming language the other is a markup language, people who are good with one are usually mediocure at best with the other. Lastly "widely used" in the same context as AS/400 is really an oxymoron.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    23. Re:I know your pain. by Cassini2 · · Score: 1

      Agreed.

      > Lastly "widely used" in the same context as AS/400 is really an oxymoron.

      That's what I always thought, until I ran into an evil cult of AS/400 priests, and really regretted it. They were phenominally impressed with this new language called "VisualBasic". After that, my career sort of went to hell, and hasn't recovered its coolness since. On the otherhand, I have caught on to a wierd kind of employer speak which seems to sell things.

      Shoot me soon.

  3. Specify the format by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, first of all you should realise that every applicant is just trying to please you. So if they write the CV in a certain way, they do it because they expect you to like it that way. How do they know? Well, they go by the few clues that they have, the most important ones being the job announcement and the company website.

    > People do everything from a short list of jobs and positions to essays on each and every project they ever thought about in a job.

    If you think that the variety makes it difficult to compary CVs, you can specify a certain structure. The easiest way to do that is a web front end for entering the CV information, with some guidelines on how many details to give. Just look at the CV generator at monster to get the idea. For applicants that can be a pain (unless you use e.g. monster), so you may lose some, but if it makes your work easier, it might be worth it.

    > Surely the Slashdot community can help point out what makes for good formatting and content in a technical resume.

    That depends on what you are looking for. I like to see a clear (and appropriate) structure, because structure is so important in IT. Many HR people look for fonts and spelling etc, but I always found that a bit superficial. Instead have a look for good command of the english language, which is not at all too common :-).

    Oh, and BTW: all these requirements also apply to the job ad. You get what you deserve. So if your job ad is a huge unformated pile of bullshit bingo and TLAs, don't complain about the declining quality of resumes!

    1. Re:Specify the format by cervo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think it would be cool if the world had a standard XML resume format. Companies could have applications and using the XML tags each company could only view the information they want. Also each company could reformat the resume so that whatever they want to see is emphasized and those details they do not care about are hidden. A nice web front end with AJAX and all that web 2.0 stuff would probably sell many higher vice presidents (unfortunately).

      But a killer app would be a WYSIWYG resume builder that puts it into an XML format and the WYSIWYG resume reader that lets you pick what you want to read. It would make life even easier to submit the resume to monster too. Instead of rebuilding your resume 5 or 6 different times for each job site, you could build one and submit it over and over again (minimizing the chance of typos/etc.).

      The variety problem would be solved because companies could put it into whatever format they want.

      I agree with you 150% on job ads, I've seen many with typos/misspellings/wrong words/more years of experience in a technology then the technology has existed (I loved 5 years .NET a year after .NET came out). Other ads are vague or just totally wrong. A job interview and the ad are part of a two way process. As much as a company wants to screen me out and interview me I want to do the reverse.

    2. Re:Specify the format by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Train your HR people then. If you have a correctly formatted CV, they are blocked by the lameness filter there. None of them know technology enough to let a technical resume minus the junk pass.

    3. Re:Specify the format by mrmtampa · · Score: 2, Informative

      The HR-XML Consortium http://www.hr-xml.org/ has developed a whole suite of human resources dtd's and schemas. Monster and Dice are using them. My resume is built using the JobPositionSeeker-v1.0.dtd. It contains all the usual segments and includes a skills table which I print as the last page of my printed copy. I created xslt scripts for producing html and text versions. It makes it easy to keep current (but I don't).

      --
      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet (I, v, 166-167)
    4. Re:Specify the format by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      If you think that the variety makes it difficult to compary CVs, you can specify a certain structure. [...] For applicants that can be a pain (unless you use e.g. monster), so you may lose some, but if it makes your work easier, it might be worth it.

      It might be, but IME it almost certainly isn't. I had this discussion just the other day, funnily enough, while talking to a recruiter I'd linked up with a friend looking for a job. I was explaining that the friend had decided not to bother applying, because the recruiter used an extensive, poorly formatted, and difficult to edit application form, which would require a silly amount of time to fill in. The candidate could have spent the same amount of time tailoring their already good CV and writing covering letters for three or four other vacancies that were at least as appealing.

      Many HR people look for fonts and spelling etc, but I always found that a bit superficial. Instead have a look for good command of the english language, which is not at all too common :-).

      It is indeed a relatively rare skill, and an underestimated one in technical jobs. That would be "the English language", BTW. :-)

      Having said that, I think good presentation skills are also underestimated. Other things being roughly equal, I'd probably give a little bonus to a candidate who had taken the time to present their CV in a structured, easily readable format, simply because if they do that with a document like a CV, I think they're more likely to consider it when they're writing formal documents (or code, for that matter) as well.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    5. Re:Specify the format by SimHacker · · Score: 1

      Of course a nicely formatted resume could mean that they paid someone to do it for them, just like they paid someone to do all their homework and write all their papers through college. But at least they know how to delegate!

      -Don

      --
      Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
  4. How is entry-level situation for other ppl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Graduated last December with B.S. in computer science. Began job-hunting at the beginning of summer. Sent my entry-level resume (no professional experience, but "fluent" in several programming languages and very few bad programming habits, mindful of good practices for robust code, etc -- I'm not an expert or guru programmer, but I'm certainly not bad) to what must have been at least 50 or 60 companies. No response from any of them, even up to now after much waiting. Still sending my resume to at least 3 or 4 companies a week, more if I'm lucky, as I chance discover them.

    Is this absolutely normal and nothing to worry about? Is this profound difficulty something that EVERY entry-level graduate programmer looking for work encounters? Or is this highly unusual, and perhaps indicative that my resume causes people who say "blah" when they read it and that I need to fix something in it? True, I had a sub-3.0 GPA and no extracirricular activities (I was and am very shy -- I'm working on this, believe me) and no previous jobs, but hey, gotta start somewhere right?

    1. Re:How is entry-level situation for other ppl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I recommend you try submitting your resume to mcdonalds. You're not going to get a job without proper initiative. I've no degree, but I seemed to obtain a job as network administrator in alaska. The problem wasn't the candidates, the reason I was hired because I can sell myself. I might not be the most knowledable on every platform, but I've saved the company I work at thousands of dollars. I've done a spectacular job at my current location. I'm hired on fulltime salary overtime exempt and they allow me to do what I want when all my tasks for the day are done. My resume was certainly not the best, but I did sale myself well.

      Basically, you'll go nowhere. Start practicing on flipping those burgers now! :D

    2. Re:How is entry-level situation for other ppl? by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      My experience is that finding a new, decent, job takes around seven months. I've done it several times and that is the average time it takes from the time I start looking until I start the job. I've not noticed learning new skills or getting job experience as speeding the process up that much. The most useful thing is to make contacts. I'd suggest starting some personal company utilizing your skills and join your local chamber of commerce and actually attend events and be social. It's rough if you're shy but the personal skills are important for you career. You may get hired by Ma & Pa's Kettle Shop instead of IBM but it'll give you some valid work experience and a paycheck. Learn some new skills too. Knowing the tech stuff is great but if you also understand business and other useful stuff you'll be a lot more useful to future employers.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    3. Re:How is entry-level situation for other ppl? by Lewisham · · Score: 2, Informative

      I graduated with a First Class Masters, so I am not *exactly* in the same position as you. I managed to find a job, as did most of my friends, quite quickly. However, your carpet-bomb approach has come up with jack, and you should have found a job by now. I am expecting you are doing something wrong.

      First place to start is the resume. Is it eye-catching? If it's not, it's in the trash. You can Google for resumes, and some people have good-looking ones (especially graphic designers, but don't use graphics in yours!). Don't fall into the trap of copying other people's structure either. I suggest a Personal Profile, bullet-point list of achievements, and then your education at the bottom (your degree isn't too hot, you've got it, but they're looking for what you learnt from it, and that's what you are giving further up)

      Does it tell them who you are? You have no work experience, which really hurts you, but what did you do at school? Think about what they are looking for. Have you been a team leader? Give an example when you had to communicate something effectively (written or verbal). Do you have teamwork experience? These are the things that your degree isn't necessarily going to prove you have, and separate the wheat from the chaff. You need to let them know.

      The second place to look is who are you sending it to? Is it targetted? If you just send a CV to IBM, it's going in the bin. Don't just send it with a cover letter and cross your fingers. Actually apply to a position that exists. You'll need to apply for a position where you are suitable. You probably aren't going to get a graduate job with the big companies, look smaller. Look for grad programs, sure, but also look for small-time positions at universities, IT support for schools or small businesses.

      The third thing to look at is definitely that experience problem. Get a job, doing *anything*. Even retail will help, show you can manage your time effectively, communicate with customers to help find what they want (requirements elicitation is a great way of wording that!) There is no job which will not help you resume (apart from stripper). I would suggest looking at recruitment agencies; there are usually temp programming jobs in cities that need a Java or .NET guy for a month or two to help out with a project; and they generally aren't that picky (if you were a stunning recruit, you would already be in full-time employment!)

      I hope this helps. I also hope this seems very obvious to you, and this is what you have been doing already ;) Good luck! Persistence is the key! (and it really seems you have that in bucket-loads!)

    4. Re:How is entry-level situation for other ppl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you sell yourself to interviewers who don't even call you? Are you supposed to call them a few days after you send your resume, even if they haven't contacted you? Clue me in here, because your advice as it stands now is pretty useless and vague.

      I'd rather not bullshit my resume, if that's what you're implying I should do. If I don't know AJAX, I'm not going to claim I know AJAX. If I contributed my part to a team project, I'm not going to claim I alone did the whole project. Et cetera, you get the point. I don't know much, but I do know people who read resumes are trained and experienced enough to smell bullshit when presented to them.

    5. Re:How is entry-level situation for other ppl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sub-3.0 GPA and No experience are the two things that are really hurting your chances to find work. Consider getting a temp, low-paid technical job, and removing your GPA from the resume altogether.

      Apply to several temp agencies (all the ones you can find within an hour's drive!); you are very likely to stack up some nice work experience; this could turn out to be your foot in the door.

      Contact some of your professors from college (the ones that know and like you), since companies often contact them directly looking for applicants. See if your family knows anybody in the industry to get your started.

      Get off your ass: no slashdot until you find a job. While you sit and wait, redouble your efforts (5-10 resumes a day!). Instead, try to learn a new skill; focus on one of the skills in constant demand.

    6. Re:How is entry-level situation for other ppl? by gangien · · Score: 1

      it took me 3 months to get my first in person interview, and they ended up hiring me. I started my search end of april last year. Not sure if that helps.. btw only 3-4 per week? I think you need to up the quota :)

      BTW i had a 2.4x GPA. One thing i did do, was outside projects though. All of the 9 people who interviewed me, asked me about the MUD i worked on.

    7. Re:How is entry-level situation for other ppl? by Cyphertube · · Score: 2, Informative

      To add on to the advice:

      When dealing with recruitment agencies, you need to be persistent. It's a two-way street. You need to follow-up with them. The go-getter who calls is going to stick in their head more than the the stack of CVs on their desk. If they don't have your CV in front of them when you call, offer to e-mail it straight away.

      The other part is that you need to be selective about the recruitment agency as well. Make sure they are good. Ask if you can talk to others who have worked for them. You don't want to get bound to some crappy company. And companies vary from region to region, so make sure you find out from someone local what the rep is, not from another part of the country.

      I hounded my recruiter for weeks and weeks. And he got me a job, partly because I kept up with him, kept my skills fresh in his mind, and reminded him that I could do jobs he was thinking would be boring for me.

      --
      Linux - because it doesn't leave that Steve Ballmer aftertaste.
    8. Re:How is entry-level situation for other ppl? by hal2814 · · Score: 1

      Why did you begin job hunting so long after graduation? That's the first thing I'd notice. As an HR deparment, I'd think you either couldn't land a job in that time or were already fired once and haven't dislosed it. There's nothing you can do about it now but that's something to think about.

      Did you send 50 or 60 different resumes to these 50 or 60 different companies? You should always tailor your resume to each and every company. Make sure you don't waste resume space on things they don't care about. If the job listing doesn't mention C#, the don't waste HR's time by putting C# on your resume for them. And do a cover letter for each and every resume you send out. Make sure that letter focuses first on how you can be an asset to them and secondly on how much you would like to work with them.

      Then call them. Call them early in the process and call them every time they say you should hear back from them. This is so important because you can get feedback on why they're not persuing you as a candidate. If you hear the same reasons over and over, you know that you need to fix something.

      How sub-3.0 is you GPA? Surely you're not putting the GPA on your resume at under 3.0?

      If your shyness is getting in the way of effectively job hunting, then you my need to consult a doctor. I had a friend in that situation and the doctor prescribed him an antidepressant to get him through the anxiety he experienced due to his shyness (there's a term for that and I forget what it is).

    9. Re:How is entry-level situation for other ppl? by Metasquares · · Score: 1

      I recently graduated from college (B.S. CS, Math minor) myself. My experience has been the exact opposite of yours: People are finding me and offering me jobs - I haven't actually applied for one since three years ago. It's come to the point where I'm turning them down (mostly because I'm currently doing a Ph. D. full-time, but I'm assuming you have no desire to do that - you'd honestly have a hard time getting in anyway with a sub-3.0 GPA).

      Unfortunately, I also did the opposite of what you did in college (though I'm probably just as shy as you are) - I got involved with lots of extracurriculars (being president of an honor society, in particular, resonates very well with employers) and graduated first in my class. I also built up a relevant work history while in high school and college. If you go back for a master's degree at any point, try to do things differently - it's important.

      From my experience, the statistic companies are most interested in when hiring college graduates is the GPA. This can be frustrating regardless of what your GPA is (if it's very high, they ignore the rest of your resume; if it's low or absent, it becomes a focus of the interview). If your major GPA is higher than your general GPA, you can try listing that. Lacking a good GPA, you're going to need to compensate with something else - work experience, hobbies, or, in general, some sort of demonstration that you know what you're doing in the field. If you did some sort of research while in college, you can try listing that, even if you have no intentions of pursuing an academic career - publications demonstrate uncommon expertise in a small area of a field, which can perhaps make up somewhat for a poor GPA.

      Next, skills and experience: if you list a skill on your resume, list some way that you've demonstrated that skill, even if it's a hobby. Nothing says you can do a job better than having done something similar already, so build a portfolio of your work. I expect that you at least work on technical projects as a hobby, or else what are you doing in this field in the first place?

      To summarize: you want to demonstrate to an employer that you have the skills and experience necessary to successfully perform a job for that employer. Merely listing the skill isn't enough; you have to prove, in one way or another, that you have the knowledge, intellectual strength, passion for the field, and work ethic to work on these sorts of projects. If your academic record does not demonstrate any of these qualities, you must find another way to do so if you expect anyone to hire you.

    10. Re:How is entry-level situation for other ppl? by BDZ · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is some good advice in this thread and you should take it to heart.

      I can think of a few other things. For one, do you have email addresses of old classmates, profs and school friends? Are you in touch with them all? If not, consider starting to contact them even if you haven't seen them in well over a year. Drop them a line to see how they are and what they are up to and mention that you are in the job market and would truly appreciate hearing of any openings they may know of.

      Do you live near a decent market? If not, would you consider moving? Being willing to relocate might open new opportunities for you.

      By all means, follow up! I can't stress that enough. If you see a job listing and send in your resume and cover letter (you do fine tune each to the job and company right? Research is easy with companies having a web presence and being unemployed you should have the spare time.) follow up a few days later. An email is the most basic, better if you are able to pinpoint an actual person, better than that is to call them. I know you said you are shy, but forcing yourself to do this is well worth it. Just call the main switchboard and ask to speak with someone in HR. If they ask why say it's to follow up on a job application. Believe me, this small bit of initative will make you stand out from the mass of emailed resumes.

      Is your resume on the job boards? At least once a week (better once a day) go into your account and "update" your resume. When employers and consulting agencies do a candidate search the responses are listed by freshness. At least that is what my sister who is a headhunter has told me.

      Again, I know you said you are shy (and I can empathize with that), but you might want to force yourself to take the steps to get involved with a developer community. Many technologies have regional/local user groups. Could be a good way to meet new people and maybe learn of an opening somewhere.

      You haven't said where your talents/skills lie, but I bet you could find ways of putting them to use which would help you build a portfolio showing you can code. Whether it's volunteering to help a local non-profit on their website, soliciting local businesses for consulting work, hobby projects which you can reference in your cover letters (and pointing to source code on your website), etc. You need to show a prospective employer that you can "do".

      Once you get an interview, whether it is a phone interview or a face-to-face one make sure to follow up immediately with a "thank you for your time" email. It used to be a thank you card was the norm, but email seems to be very acceptable now and it is immdediate. Also reiterate in it briefly why you want the job, how excited you are about the possibility of working there, etc. You can also use this as an opportunity to point out something that you forgot in the interview. Again, a little extra effort and initiative helps you stand out. Personally, this and being very enthusiastic in the interview, have probably led to more job offers than anything else.

      Finally, just to reiterate what others have said -- look into getting into a consulting group. It'll get you job experience and help you build up a network. Once you can put some work experience on your resume your educational background (and that GPA) will not be the thing a prospective employer will focus in on. They'll see that you can hold a job, know how to work, and can produce results.

      Good luck to you!

    11. Re:How is entry-level situation for other ppl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the anonymous from alaska..

      I see where you are.. hmm. Well I don't know in your situation. I show off my work which I've done, and have excellent references. You need to call back the company you applied, even if the recieving person is HR*shrug*. My recommendations is to do some small personal projects, and show them off in your resume. Study hard as possible in your wanted job which usually requires certain knowledge(cisco, sonicwallvpn, solutions on saving money). Getting the job is not difficult, you have to be the one saying, "I'm better than all the other applicants, hire me!". A good resume is not enough to get you hired.

      1. Good resume
      2. Some programming projects, even if they are small
      3. References
      4. show good practices, people like good management, documentation, communication skills(very important)

    12. Re:How is entry-level situation for other ppl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know this probably isn't any consolation, but I'm in mostly the same boat...
      Only my 2005 degree is Physics, not CS, and I've been programming for fun and profit in 7+ languages for almost 10 years, *including* while I was in school, and at verifiable jobs which are listed on my resume! I wouldn't say I had no extracurricular activities; I was merely the President of an academic student organization and also held a research position (which was actually 2 positions)... I took extra training in anything I could get my hands on... My home network is top-notch, I have servers and websites and projects galore... And all of this is mentioned on my resume.

      And I'm in the same boat you're in. I've been unemployed for 8 months now, and my savings ran out 3 months ago. Good Luck.

    13. Re:How is entry-level situation for other ppl? by Belgand · · Score: 1

      I understand exactly where you're coming from. I graduated in Spring 2004 with degrees in Biology and Microbiology (CS minor stymied by one necessary course not being offered). While I was in school I spent three semesters doing undergraduate research that directly relates to my research interests (molecular genetics) and after I graduated my research advisor went on to take a position as assistant dean. I spent a year working at a crappy local call center because my girlfriend was finishing school and there's little to no work in this area. Eventually it got to be too much and I quit putting my time into searching for a job full-time. That was a year ago and in that time I've had exactly one job interview out of only two places that have even responded to my applications.

      Scientific research isn't really an area where you can just work on projects in your spare time or learn new skills at home. Personally I worry that part of my problem is a mix of not having experience and a lack of good references: I've been long out of contact with my professors and even then there was only really one that would have given me a reference. At my previous job the rate of turn-over is so high that there isn't anyone there who could act as a reference and the one former boss who liked me no longer has any valid contact information.

      My girlfriend and I are moving next month and hoping that that helps us find jobs, but honestly it seems like the entry-level job market is particularly terrible right now with what would normally be an entry-level job seemingly wanting a degree of experience that counters the idea of it being "entry-level".

    14. Re:How is entry-level situation for other ppl? by masdog · · Score: 1

      I know the feeling. I graduated at the same time, but I was hunting for jobs 6 months before I graduated. And while I tend to be a little shy as well, I made an effort in college to correct this. I joined a fraternity, where I held leadership positions. I joined the campus newspaper. I worked in the school IT department for two years, and I had a few other jobs (not all listed on my resume as it would balloon it to a 3rd page and aren't relevant to the IT world). And I started a photography company to provide images to my college for a year. I didn't have the best GPA either, but I made something out of my college experience.

      But I still haven't found a more permanent position yet. One recruiter screwed me over. Another recruiter with a long term position led me to get fired from a temporary (one-month) job I had taken because of their interview schedule. I've done some consulting (which didn't work too well because the client wouldn't communicate the information I needed to do the job).

      My resume starts with my education, and then I include my relevant work experience, specifically my IT jobs. I then have a technical skills "appendix" that lists my technical skills by how proficient I am with them. I have an extra-curricular activities section, and an accomplishments section that mentions when I was employee of the month in my jobs and that I have published a short story.

    15. Re:How is entry-level situation for other ppl? by 22_9_3_11_25 · · Score: 1

      Volunteer as much as you can, offer your programming skills to local agencies, churches etc. Volunteer fixing up computers or doing tech support for local non profits. Also, you have to really want a job before you will be offered one, the last place I worked would get hundreds of resumes for any opening.

    16. Re:How is entry-level situation for other ppl? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am about 4 years out of school now, and as such now have a significant role in choosing who fills our entry level positions (interviewing, resume parsing, etc). Send me a copy of your resume ke vs tev @ gmale.xom ( I think you can figure out the real domain) and I can tell you if there is anything obviously wrong.

      -K

    17. Re:How is entry-level situation for other ppl? by brettdavis4 · · Score: 1

      When I got out of school, I had some problems during the interview process. My shyness was hurting me in the interview process. The best way to break this problem is schedule as many interviews as possible. Schedule interviews with companies that you do not want to work for. The more interviews you do, the more comfortable you will become at them.

  5. Insist on XML, that'l sort em out... by PaulHurleyUK · · Score: 3, Informative
    Insist on all CV's being submitted as XML data files, then you can sort them out easily ... http://xmlresume.sourceforge.net/

    Paul.
    --
    Paul Hurley, Completely Pointless

    1. Re:Insist on XML, that'l sort em out... by MikeFM · · Score: 4, Funny

      Never found an employer that actually accepted that format - unfortunately.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    2. Re:Insist on XML, that'l sort em out... by nazsco · · Score: 1

      For those, use XLST

  6. Depends upon the field by cperciva · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The ideal resume structure depends upon the job for which one is applying. A resume I recently used was slightly under 200 lines of (up to) 78 characters of ASCII text; its sections were "Education" (2 degrees, 5 lines), "Scholarships" (3 entries, 3 lines), "Awards" (5 entries, 5 lines), "Employment" (3 entries, 8 lines), "Research" (8 entries, 60 lines), "Other activities" (10 entries, 20 lines), "Publications" (10 entries, 25 lines), "Software written" (3 entries, 15 lines), and "Grep bait" (3 lines). Obviously, this was heavily weighted towards pointing out my research abilities; this makes sense, since I was applying for a job doing research.

    If I had been applying for a position as a programmer, I would probably have swapped the positions and lengths of the "Software written" and "Research" sections. If I was applying for a scholarship, I would have listed more of the awards I've received. If I was applying for a job at a company which didn't have a reputation for applying computers to the task of filtering resumes, I would have omitted the "Grep bait" section.

    It's not rocket science: Decide what job you want, decide what you would like to see on a resume if you were hiring someone for that job, and then write that resume.

    1. Re:Depends upon the field by BruceCage · · Score: 1

      That's sound advice, from what I've noticed structure plays a very important role in creating a solid resume. When I applied for a summer internship I set up a resume by comparing sections used in resumes I found Googling, eventually it contained the following three sections: "Objective", "Education" and "Skills" (e.g. Operating Systems, Databases, Programming Languages, Methodologies). If you do have any previous working experience (unlike me) you should obviously list that too.

      I based my resume on the following resumes:

      --
      Perfect is the enemy of done.
  7. filters suck by MikeFM · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The problem with resumes these days, IMO, is that you have to both make a resume that'll get through the automated filters many companies use and still be grabbing to the human that eventually will read it. Filters throw out anything without the right keywords so you have to cram your resume with lots of keywords. Obviously, like web pages that are stuffed with keywords, this leads to resumes that are long and ugly. Then you feel your resume is to long and repetitive so you feel the need to trim out details in your work and education history.

    I always feel the need to explain not only what I know but also how well I know it and how recently I've used it. This is helpful I think but leads to a resume that some people throw out as simply being to verbose.

    Then my girlfriend says my resume is ugly so she wants to spend a lot of time picking the right fonts, paper, etc despite the fact that the nicer looking version is actually harder to read. I hate resumes. Why don't we use one of the available XML-based formats for passing around resumes.

    --
    At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    1. Re:filters suck by ditto999999999999999 · · Score: 1

      Amen

    2. Re:filters suck by amelith · · Score: 1

      > The problem with resumes these days, IMO, is that you have to both make a resume that'll get through the
      > automated filters many companies use and still be grabbing to the human that eventually will read it.

      This is an important point and if I'd had some points I'd have modded you up.

      I'd also mention that your CV will be read by lots of people e.g. recruitment agents whose knowledge of what the tech buzzwords mean is very similar to the automated filters. These people are gatekeepers between you and the potential employers HR department, which might well have been outsourced itself and have a similar level of knowledge. Getting a job isn't as simple as it used to be, it seems to be much harder to get your CV onto the right person's desk.

      I've had mostly poor experiences with the big recruitment sites. Networking and contacts combined with targetted direct applications seem to be the way to go. Well, it worked for me anyway.

    3. Re:filters suck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Luckily, that doesn't mean that you should put every single buzz-word for every single technology that you know in there. If a place is looking to fill a certain type of technical position, take a look at the "buzz words" that they use in their ad or find out more about the position through other ways. Then, slightly modify your resume to include the words that they use.

  8. My Psychology Professor by rolfwind · · Score: 1

    taught me that short and to the point works, under 2 pages, is preferred. Incidentally, my English professor shares this same attitude about good writing (using the book "On Writing Well" by Zinsser).

    My experience bore this out. Of course, a resume is only to get a foot in the door. You can use (or prospective future employees) can bypass that step and use contacts to land an interview.

    1. Re:My Psychology Professor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last time I changed jobs (earlier this year), I had a 5 or 6-page CV summarising my skills, previous roles & projects, qualifications and certifications. The recruitment agency that was handling the job (Snr Software Engineer) I applied for told me in no uncertain terms that it was too short. They did not want to see summaries, they wanted to see full prose descriptions of what I had been working on in the past. I got explicitly told that the common "keep it short" advice is pure BS as far as they're concerned. If you have 20 years experience, they want to see a 20 page CV, I believe one of the comments were.

      I ended up rewriting mine into a 9-page CV with a LOT more detail about my involvement in previous projects. And I got the job.

      Of course, if you are able to include sufficient detail and still keep it short, that might be the best of both worlds. However:
      a) That isn't easy to do. In fact it's damn hard. CVs are about the most difficult thing to write if you ask me (and I'm an at-times writer).
      b) Even if you do succeed, not everyone will like it. It's all about targeting your audience properly. Perhaps even make a phonecall to the recruiter before you submit the CV and ask about what length/format they prefer.

      Anyway, I just wanted to say that "short isn't always" best, as I've found out...

    2. Re:My Psychology Professor by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      Yep, that's the best policy if you're looking for a 'generic' resume, which fits the bill for most scenarios. A good job to fit your skills, however, should require a targetted resume.

      In general, though, a CV is essentially a big business card.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    3. Re:My Psychology Professor by Jonny+do+good · · Score: 1
      My experience bore this out. Of course, a resume is only to get a foot in the door. You can use (or prospective future employees) can bypass that step and use contacts to land an interview.

      I agree, contacts are the number 1 way to land a job. However, I disagree with your thought on 2 pages or less on length. If the resume is for academia I would recommend whatever length it takes to list the skills and responsibilities you have. For almost any other job a one-page resume is the best. From my experiences evaluating potential employees, anything over 1 page goes to the bottom of the pile and only gets looked at if the one-page resumes are not good enough/extensive enough to find a good interview pool. If I have received a flood of resumes the two+ pagers get thrown in a folder to be thrown away.

      The number one rule of resume writing is to highlight what you have done in your past (particularly your recent past) that will translate into benefits for the potential employer. Stay away from words like responsible and use action words such as implemented.

      Personally I only list the last three-four jobs, my degrees, awards/accomplishments that I feel are worth listing and applicable to the situation. Awards and accomplishments have a limited life span and shouldn't really be used for more than about 5-10 years. Previous experience is a bit trickier, I have several versions of my resume that I keep around with different experiences. As a returning grad student my work experience changes depending on which job I am looking to land. For example I am not positive about the field I wish to go into, either consulting or project management. For the consulting resume I use previous experiences that highlight my ability to work with the customer, and my ability to perform a wide variety of technical as well as business related tasks. For the project management resume I highlight previous management experiences in an IT role, project management skills/experience, change management experience, and my technical expertise in an IT environment. I use the same jobs and titles, just different experiences depending on the role I am looking for.

  9. Blame HR departments and Agents by Athanasius · · Score: 1

    In my experience you can't just write one CV/Resume. You always have to tailor it. Try to submit one that company A loved in the past to Agency/Company B and they'll complain it shows "too much of X, and not enough of Y". Tweak it to their specs and the next lot will complain it has "too much Y", then the next will say "where's the Z section?", and you'll go and add that in, to which the next will say "Sorry, because you included Y and Z it's too long, we only check the front page" (which is the reason for that brief listing of skillsets people use).

    Like others have said, the only way to be sure the applications will be amenable to you looking over them quickly, and later in detail, is to have CV/Resumes submitted directly to yourself and pre-specify the format you expect.

    What's needed is an ISO (eek!) standard CV format, and for all agencies and HR depts to accept it without whining.

  10. My ex was a headhunter... by ozmanjusri · · Score: 5, Insightful
    She helped me put my resume together, and it's never let me down. The format is:

    Identification & contact details. (address, phone etc)
    Date (so they know the resume is current)

    Summary blurb. (Use this as your "hook" if you have anything to brag about.
    "On our last project I was instrumental in our team's successful cure for cancer, elimination of world hunger and the establishment of Unreal Tournament as the nation's premier sporting event."

    Bullet point listing of key competencies.

    * Brain surgery
    * Microsurgery
    * Lisp coder
    etc

    One or two paragraph summary of experience, most recent first.

    August 2005 - Current:
    Crowd controller for Rammstein.
    Acting as a human buffer to crazed fans, I successfully protected the band from encroachment and injury on 37 separate occasions. A strong commitment to workplace safety was demonstrated by my use of a rubber-shielded baton, while my leather and vinyl attire coordinated well with the band's homo-industrial stage antics.

    July 2004 - August 2005:
    Speech Writer for Tourettes' Debating Team.
    etc

    The key is to get ALL of this up to a couple of your most recent gigs on one page. That'll give the reviewer a good chance to assess you and shortlist you without having to wade through reams of paper, so keep it al brief and to the point.

    Once you've got that part done, you an start listing other experience and qualifications on the following pages, then finish up with references. As well as a list of names and contact info, it's a good idea to include a couple of juicy quotes from referees.

    References
    "T Person was the most effective human speed-bump this company has ever employed. His great bulk would have been enough to stop a rocket propelled tank."

    Good luck...

    --
    "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    1. Re:My ex was a headhunter... by Alex · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As someone who sees a lot of CVs and has hired a lot of staff, I couldn't agree more with this.

      Keep the summary short and concise - a few lines ideally.

      Give more details about recent jobs than old jobs (I'm more interested in your recent experience, than your job as a barman when you were 18).

      A good piece of advice I heard a few years ago - if you've got the experience - focus on the experience (ie if you are sysadmin, wanting another sysadmin job - focus on what sysadmin stuff you know), if you haven't got the experience - focus on the skills (ie if you are helpdesk dude - applying for a sysadmin job - focus on what transferable skills you've got - maybe how good you are at solving complex problems).

      Personally I think quotes from referees is a bit cheesey - but each to their own. If you think a bit about what references are - would you really want to hire someone who couldn't fake a set of references ?

      Fitting it all onto less pages by taking out all the white space and using a smaller font is cheating, and has a side affect of makeing your CV harder to read. If your CV is hard to read - there is a risk that people won't, most hiring managers will be faced by a pile of CVs you want yours to be the one that stands out, being well presented and easy to read is at least as important as the skills on the CV.

      And last of all leave out anything you do that could be considered wierd (by the most narrowminded person). Ultimate Frisbee / caving / climbing / extreme ironing - ok, role playing games with wired names - probably not.

      good luck,

      Alex

      PS - Don't come back with "its my skills that are important not my CV", presenting information in a concise easy to read format is an important skill.

    2. Re:My ex was a headhunter... by tyldis · · Score: 2, Informative

      Recently hired someone...

      12 applicants and 2 of those did as the ad instructed (written and snailmailed application, without diplomas and crap, only a cover letter and a CV).
      Most had a messy CV which I have a hard time reading and comparing with others.
      One hadn't updated his since 2001.
      The worst one was almost 60 pages long and included a huge essay detailing his life. Most pages were just 'diplomas' from every course or training he ever attended. It seemed as if he asked everyone who ever taught him ANYHING to also make some kind of 'proof' for that knowledge. Needless to say, I simply threw it out without even looking at his details.

      I want a CV/resume like parent is suggesting plus a SHORT letter, max 1 page with:
        * Who you are
        * What you currently do
        * Why you want to change employer
        * Why you suit this job
        * What your goals are

      I also want applicants to be honest. Telle me of potential weak spots you have, and tell me how you want to tackle them.
      Applicants with minor faults look more honest than those perfect candidates. And claiming to have a skill you don't have only makes you nervous and will piss me off when I expect you to be able to do something. If I know I need to hold your hand for a while I will happily do so if you were honest about it.

      I don't want to see your diplomas until I ask for them or invite you in for an interview.

    3. Re:My ex was a headhunter... by syrinx · · Score: 1

      I want a CV/resume like parent is suggesting plus a SHORT letter, max 1 page with:
          * Who you are
          * What you currently do
          * Why you want to change employer
          * Why you suit this job
      * What your goals are


      I don't know.. I agree with you mostly, but when I look at resumes I pretty much completely ignore whatever they've put down as their "goal" -- everyone knows the real goal is "to get your company to exchange your currency for my services", I don't really care if they're able to BS something else.

      --
      Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
    4. Re:My ex was a headhunter... by honkycat · · Score: 1
      Fitting it all onto less pages by taking out all the white space and using a smaller font is cheating, and has a side affect of makeing your CV harder to read. If your CV is hard to read - there is a risk that people won't, most hiring managers will be faced by a pile of CVs you want yours to be the one that stands out, being well presented and easy to read is at least as important as the skills on the CV.

      This bears repeating. One of the worst resumes I've ever seen was from a guy who might well have been fairly good. He had a lot of experience, certainly. I never found out either because we didn't actually interview him or because I left the company before we did, I don't recall which.

      Anyway, his resume looked as though he maintained it as a text file and after each job or project, he just added a paragraph to the top of the file. He'd been doing this for probably 20 years, so he had about 4 pages of it, all printed in 10 point font (might have been monospace, don't recall). There were no breaks or other formatting other than a newline at the end of each paragraph - not a blank line between them, mind you, just a newline short of the page margin if the paragraph didn't stretch all the way across the page. He might have used blanks between sections, I don't recall. Headings were in the same font as everything else.

      I actually spent a few minutes trying to read it and I seriously couldn't. The (lack of) formatting was so awful that the solid wall of text made it impossible to concentrate on the words.

      Don't do this. Format cleanly, and keep it concise. Your resume is worthless if no one reads it.
    5. Re:My ex was a headhunter... by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      Leave off references. They might keep your resume on file (depending on how many applicants they get, etc.) and more often than not seem to not check references in my experience. Maintain your reference list seperately, so that if they really want to check them, they can - and not all companies even ask for referneces when hiring. Just denote that references are available upon personal request.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    6. Re:My ex was a headhunter... by budgenator · · Score: 1

      I want a CV/resume like parent is suggesting plus a SHORT letter, max 1 page with
      Seems to me that your asking for a CV, then are expecting to recieve a resume; it was my understanding that a CV was a much longer detailed document. "Curricula vitae (CVs) provide a detailed statement of your qualifications. They are only used in certain positions and industries in the US, although the CV is the default choice in the UK and Commonwealth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9sum%C3%A9_serv ice I'm not sure why anyone would even want a traditional CV unless the profession typically does a lot of publishing or continuing education, and then not until the applicant is in a more advanced stage of the hiring process. In most professions that using a CV would be appropriate for, the professionals would find being asked for one by menial HR vampire to be demeaning.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    7. Re:My ex was a headhunter... by tyldis · · Score: 1

      In Norway there really is no difference between a CV or a resume. In one page you summarize your education and skills.
      The skill of understanding what matters and what doesn't is at least something I expect from anyone applying for a senior position.

      There might obviously be different cultures in different countries, on top of personal preferences of the reviewer. However, this format has landed me top jobs since the day I graduated and I have never been a day without employment. I think the application itself is one of the reasons, simply because it's small size stands out.

  11. Here's a good model by 91degrees · · Score: 1

    Just do something like this Aleksey Vayner.

    (Yeah. I know its old news by now. Still makes melaugh)

  12. CPAN is the only resume you need for Perl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I write Perl, and I work writing Perl.

    And ever since I got to about 4 or 5 CPAN modules released, I haven't needed a resume at all since.

    Generally it's just enough to say "My CPAN id is $foo".

    It also works in reverse as well, in situations where I've been hiring or interviewing Perl people, my first question tends to be "Do you have a CPAN id?".

    If so, you can immediately go see what standard they work to when they expect their peers to read their code.

    If not, they general apologize or mumble something about always meaning to, and we go into why not. Often it's valid reasons, and all is fine.

    If they don't know what a CPAN id is, well then they almost certainly aren't getting the job :)

    1. Re:CPAN is the only resume you need for Perl by CaptainZapp · · Score: 1
      That was a bit like interviewing the Sybase "expert" with four years Sybase experience (provided by an agent, of course) who mumbled something about tempdb when I asked him to describe a couple of system tables. The interview ended in a "we call you, don't call us", of course.

      Depending on the job and the application you must not necessarily be the product wizard, but if your resumee states four years of Sybase experience you better heard about sysobjects, sysdatabases and another couple of systems tables and are able to describe their functionality.

      What I was looking for was consistency within the resumee and with what the applicant claims to be. Everybody can learn and I met damn good applicants who weren't quite an expert on the product yet. But if somebody claims that he has four years experience, he better makes sure that he can back them up in the technical interview.

      --
      ich bin der musikant

      mit taschenrechner in der hand

      kraftwerk

    2. Re:CPAN is the only resume you need for Perl by Mouse42 · · Score: 1
      And ever since I got to about 4 or 5 CPAN modules released, I haven't needed a resume at all since.

      {sigh} I wish it was like that all the time. I figure my work speaks for itself, right? I am a web designer, and I thought the quality, quantity, dates, and clientbase should successfully demonstrate my skills, so my resume gives a list and explaination of my knowledgebase, along with a list of website links and notable description for each.

      Invariably, I am asked for my previous employers. Eh? Look at the websites, my previous employers are right there.

    3. Re:CPAN is the only resume you need for Perl by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      If they don't know what a CPAN id is, well then they almost certainly aren't getting the job :)

      I have no idea what a CPAN id is. I'm guessing from context that it's what you use if you're submitting a module to CPAN.

      I've also spent countless hours over the last several years using Perl to write the kind of automation scripts it was designed for, countless more using it as a CGI back-end to link web sites with databases, and obviously a fair amount of time looking up and using CPAN modules in relation to both.

      Does this mean I shouldn't be hired for a job that requires Perl, then?

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    4. Re:CPAN is the only resume you need for Perl by DrZaius · · Score: 1

      A CPAN id is your username for uploading stuff onto CPAN.

      I would say it depends on the level and expectations of the job. As a senior perl programmer, I probably wouldn't hire you because you're not involved in the culture of perl. You do know what CPAN is and were able to take a decent guess on what a CPAN id is, so I probably would hire you.

      --
      -- DrZaius - Minister of Sciences and Protector of the Faith
    5. Re:CPAN is the only resume you need for Perl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I probably wouldn't hire you because you're not involved in the cult of perl.
      Fixed it for you.
  13. One Page by pipingguy · · Score: 1

    Make it one page with a short work history (past 5 years only) with dates, places and company names. In the opening blurb, condense your professional interests, accomplishments and goals into a short paragraph.

    Graphically organize this information so that it is easy to digest at a glance, bolding important words as appropriate for the situation. Be honest and do not embellish or pad your experience, education or knowledge.

    Since blinky LEDs and tiny batteries are cheap these days, you could always attach a few to those envelopes going to the places you *really* want to work for.

    1. Re:One Page by GoofyBoy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can't tell if you are joking or not, but forget about the
      "keep it to one-page advice".

      If you can only fill in one page, then keep it to one page.

      If you need 10 pages, fill 10 pages, but try to put the really good and recent stuff on the first page.

      Think long and hard if you want to work for a company that rejects you based solely on the number of pages you submit.

      --
      The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
    2. Re:One Page by pipingguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I disagree. If I'm looking at a stack of resumes and I'm busy (i.e., not a HR professional) I'll not likely pick up one that weighs a lot. A heavy CV usually indicates too much information (possibly padding) and someone who cannot (for ego reasons or whatever) summarize their own experience and qualifications.

      Put a web link or note mentioning extra information instead. If the interviewer is interersted s/he'll call you for more details.

    3. Re:One Page by GoofyBoy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >If I'm looking at a stack of resumes and I'm busy (i.e., not a HR professional) I'll not likely pick up one that weighs a lot.

      Your job is to find the right person for the job. Again its not clear how the weight of a resume has anything to do with this. Do you also filter by the orientation of the staple on the resume?
      For me, do I really want to work for you if my coworkers were chosen by this arbitrary method? What does it say about your skills as a manager?

      "Hi! I have no technical skills, no experience I can share, but I work here because I lucked out because I have a one page resume. Good thing too, because I would have lost to at least three other more qualified people but they never even got looked at because they had a hefty five page resume. Nice to meet you."

      >A heavy CV usually indicates too much information (possibly padding) and someone who cannot (for ego reasons or whatever) summarize their own experience and qualifications.

      I can do both of those things, pad and fail to summerize, with a one or two page resume.

      >Put a web link or note mentioning extra information instead.

      You can't be bothered to turn the page of a document right in front of you, yet you find it ok to ask a person to go to an computer and type in a potentially long/complex text (URL)?

      --
      The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
    4. Re:One Page by QuestorTapes · · Score: 1

      > If you can only fill in one page, then keep it to one page.
      > If you need 10 pages, fill 10 pages, but try to put the really
      > good and recent stuff on the first page.

      Have to disagree. Not that one page is a firm rule, but ten pages is excessive. The main purpose of the resume (at least in the US) is to get an interview or call. Ten pages of detail doesn't help you do that. Pare the older/less relevant stuff down to a series of short summaries, and add "ask me for more details". If you're in the ballpark, they'll ask. This is particularly useful when companies put every cool catchphrase they've ever heard of on the list of qualifications.

      Bring the ten pages of detail to the interview.

      > Think long and hard if you want to work for a company that
      > rejects you based solely on the number of pages you submit.

      I don't know of any that reject people for sending too long a resume; but I know -many- that give the big, honking ten page resumes to Sally from HR to pare down to the "relevant" ones, and Sally isn't usually the sharpest tool in the shed. Sometimes Sally doesn't forward the resume because "I don't think he speaks English very well; his resume says stuff about Perl and awk and sed, and I think he's been sick; I saw something about Mono on his resume?"

    5. Re:One Page by honkycat · · Score: 1

      It's a VERY rare thing that an applicant actually has a legitimate reason to fill 10 pages of a resume, excepting cases where an employer specifically asks for a detailed job history. A couple pages is more than enough space to give general information about skills and objectives and give some detail for the most recent / relevant jobs. A resume is not a life story, it's a sales pitch. Submitting a 10 page tome indicates either unfamiliarity with the purpose of a resume (really, if you've GOT 10 pages worth of jobs, you should be past this point) or an inability to edit ones work to a specific target.

      If I were hiring, I probably wouldn't outright disregard a resume based on its length, but it's sure not going to be an advantage. If the first page doesn't look VERY promising, it's going to go in the trash, especially if I've got other promising applicants who do a more concise job presenting themselves.

    6. Re:One Page by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1
      Make it one page with a short work history (past 5 years only)

      Why just the past five years? Stuff I did in 2000 might be quite relevant to some need an employer has, or might get a foot in the door through networking ("Hey, Joe! Says this guy worked at XYZ corp in 1999. You used to work there, you know him?").

      BTW, I'm not in the market but get a fair number of calls each month from recruiters. My resume's format must be ok.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
  14. Boy am I going to watch this thread... by Merovign · · Score: 1

    I have an oddball background (some people have it worse). I've tried about 9 different formats and I always get a 50/50 love-hate response. That part's probably normal and I'm being paranoid. :)

    I always find that, on forms like Monster's, there's always one or two required fields I can't correctly/honestly fill in the way they want it. I tend to find the automated formats "unflattering," but there you are.

    It's a hot job market, though. Sometimes it doesn't seem that way, but that's because it's a very competetive one as well.

    1. Re:Boy am I going to watch this thread... by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1
      I have an oddball background
      Well, if you provide more details, maybe somebody can help you overcome your resume difficulties.

      Different people take different tracks in life. I don't know anybody who isn't an "oddball" in some way, shape, or form. Besides, you can always take your oddballedness and use it to stand out from the crowds of people who are applying for the same position.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    2. Re:Boy am I going to watch this thread... by Merovign · · Score: 1

      I rework my resume on an ongoing basis. Actually I've had positive responses so far from those who have bothered to reply, but not a new job yet. :)

      My only question is, is it normal these days to have three interviews and then send a dear John letter? I get a lot of that. Very positive, right up to the letter.

    3. Re:Boy am I going to watch this thread... by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1
      Well, the interviews are part of the selection process, so it is perfectly natural that you might land an interview but no job offer. I mean, somebody's got to interview and not get the offer, right?

      Now, I don't know you. I wasn't at any of your interviews. So I can't say for certain. But I'm going to guess that you are doing something wrong in your interviews. That's what happened to me. I got a ton of interviews when I was looking for my first job, but no offers. Finally, I had a recruiter offer to give me feedback on my interviews and why I wasn't selected. She had great feedback, and I've been much better at interviews ever since.

      I would give you two pieces of advice. First, ask your contact at the company if he/she would feel comfortable offering you any feedback about why the company selected another candidate. Secondly, find someone who is a family member or a friend or a friend of a friend or whatever who does a lot of interviews and hiring. Do a mock interview with this person and get feedback at the end.

      Hope this helps.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
  15. Interview matters by blwrd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm not in position of actually hiring people, but every now and then I've been asked to interview the employee candidates. The managers then base their decision (more or less) on my opinion. In the (hopefully clearly structured) resume, the candidate claims to have knowledge on specific technical areas, let it be programming environments, languages, databases or whatever.

    My job as a interviewer is to determine how truthful the resume is. This is done by discussing the competence areas with rather low level technical terms. Asking whether the candidate can explain terms like semaphore, mutex, process, thread, iteration, recursion, and so on, tells a lot about persons technical skills. Way more than "Java Programming, level 4", in the resume.

    So if the person can fluently discuss with technical terms, he probably also knows the stuff he's talking about. Conclusion? A compact, well structured resume may get you to the interview, but IMHO it's the interview that eventually matters.

  16. LaTeX by A-Rex · · Score: 2, Informative

    You probably want to find or make a good LaTeX/TeX template and use that. Every computer science master student does that here at least, and the companies loves it.

  17. They may be required to suck by mdarksbane · · Score: 1

    I recently graduated, and my school's job placement program required resumes in a very particular format - which looked like crap. However, I guess it does standardize things a bit when they send off fifty of them to a company that asks for "everyone in CS with a 3.4 or higher gpa".

    I think the best way to get better resumes is to in your job posting either give a format or give specific items you'd like to see. I knew when I wrote mine that it had to get past a million filters - so even if I only spent a couple days and one project writing Java, I had to get it on there somehow - if only to get past the HR department into a real interview, where I knew I could convince people that I knew how to code.

    If you only care about job experience, say that. Or if you want sample code.

    My current employer glanced at my resume to get me an interview, but then didn't even want to see my references. They just gave me a coding assignment and two days to do it. I've honestly started thinking that might be the best way, for just a straight introductory to middle-of-the-road coding job. If they aren't don't want the job enough to do the assignment, why hire them? And how else can you tell what their code is like?

  18. That list of skills is why you see the resume by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Most recruiters, job engines, etc wouldn't even forward you the resume if it didn't match certain keywords. So people that want to get their resume in front of someone have to put every conceivable keyword on there, in the hopes that their resume will at least get to some decisionmaker. You can safely ignore that list, it's an unfortunate consequence of trying to get hired in today's market. A classically formatted resume will never get past the computer filters.

    --
    stuff |
    1. Re:That list of skills is why you see the resume by mrzaph0d · · Score: 1

      yep, when i started looking for my last job, i noticed i wasn't getting many calls at all. i decided to rewrite it with name brands of the technology i worked with instead, and the calls started coming in.

      the funniest though was the question "how's your TCP/IP?"

      --
      this is just a placeholder till i send back my real sig from the future.
    2. Re:That list of skills is why you see the resume by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 1

      the funniest though was the question "how's your TCP/IP?"

      And if you want the job, you say your TCP/IP is awesome. Eventually you'll get to a real person who knows things.. and if you don't, then you just got a sinecure (job title and pay with no duties -- score!). That means you can play Tetris all day and no one can fire you, because no one can say what exactly you're meant to be doing.

      --
      stuff |
  19. Show some love by fishdan · · Score: 1

    One question I always ask in interviews -- "Tell me about some code that you wrote that wasn't for work or school." As an example, I wrote "voting fraud" program to You need to show that you'll be a great employee because you love the job. If you're going for an IT position, you should be proud of your home network. If you're a coder, you should talk about the program/package that you wrote just for fun. Whatever you do, on your resume have examples of how you do it for the love of it -- Write about your MythTV, write about your web site, write about your spam filter implementation ....write about SOMETHING that shows you're in the field because you LOVE it, not because you're looking for a job.

    --
    Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm
    1. Re:Show some love by pci · · Score: 1

      While I understand why you want to inquire about how much they love IT; personally I would never base my hiring for a position on the size of a candiates home network or what other projects they code for on the side.

      My reasons are this:
        - For some people IT is just a job, just like working at Mcdonalds with a better paycheck and a different skill set.
        - Anybody can build a home network now, for under $1500 I can buy two new computers and a switch.

    2. Re:Show some love by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must be kidding - you wouldn't care about whether the applicant enjoys coding (as represented by the hobby) or sees it as a grind to get a paycheck (as represented by zero IT outside work)?

      People that do [subject] as a hobby are far more interested in [subject] and much more likely to understand it and make [subject] really dance.

      I've worked with doctors who only 'doctor' in work hours, and doctors that spend personal time chasing up interesting and new medical developments. It's pretty easy to tell which doctors I have more faith in.

  20. How is someone to grow in their career? by cervo · · Score: 1

    In a lot of cases, people know languages/technologies very well that they do not use at their job. Basically, if you follow the procedure of only accepting technologies used on in the job history, once someone gets their first job that will define them for the rest of their career. Most computer science (and even other subjects that require programming) college graduates used C++ or Java while at college (in the past 10 or so years). In addition to using it for many years at school, they also use it on their own. Nevertheless, their job may be using VB/C#/something else.

    Another good example is Linux. A lot of us use it at home but at our jobs we are stuck using Windows or some proprietary UNIX. Nevertheless when my last job got a Linux server to experiment I was there to install Linux, recompile the kernel with what we needed, and to show everyone how to navigate around the box. Now using your technique if I was applying for a job at some company using Linux I would have been screened out.

    Another example I can think of is Ruby. There are many Ruby fanatics who use it all the time at home but just cannot use it at work. If you were looking for a Ruby programmer a lot of these people who use Ruby like crazy at home would be excluded because it is not in their work history.

    Also, no matter what technology there is, your company will eventually probably switch technologies. Do you want to keep hiring people every time your company switches technologies? Probably you need someone who can grow and learn whatever technology they want. Also, even if you do not plan to switch technologies (which sounds questionable to me), the new employee will have to learn your system. I think the technical skills list provides a good basis for talking about what the candidate knows. If you see many technologies not interested in their work interest it may express a willingness and desire to learn new things. I think the best thing you could do (and I had a company do this) is to give a small assignment to all you candidates in whatever technology you are most interested in and see who succeeds.

    I had a financial company do this to me one time (in a language J that me, and most of the people being hired, did not use). The task was ultimately easy but because it was a language that most people don't use it took time to use the language reference to look up the task. Ultimately, it narrowed the field of applications from hundreds (1.5-3 hundred I forget) to a handful for the interview (if only I didn't get lost finding the building I would probably have been working there).

    This becomes even more important as you use less popular technologies. But also, if you hire people and they are only permitted to work with things in their past work history, the job is going to be boring. Personally if I don't learn anything new at all at a job, I'm going to be looking to leave.

  21. Advice: The top is important too by Metasquares · · Score: 1

    Even if employers may ignore the skills at the top, those skills will do a lot to get your resume found by search engines. If you end up near the top of a results list for some common search term and your resume is suitably impressive, people are, at some point or another, going to contact you with job offers. This is obviously a good position to be in. Never be a supplicant if you can avoid it.

    As for what to put on it, a short paragraph about each job is pretty standard. Obviously, you want to highlight your strongest points. If you have an excellent academic record, it may help to include more detail in the education section. Similarly, if you have lots of work experience, make sure that the resume gives an accurate representation of that experience. If you have good records in both, balance it based on what sort of job you're looking for.

  22. Mod Parent Up by Cassini2 · · Score: 1

    Agreed

  23. Biggest Resume Mistake by Cassini2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The biggest resume mistake that I have ever seen is when everyone in some college / university program takes a course where *EVERYONE* has to format the resume exactly the same way. The result is that the entire classes resumes look almost identical.

    After I read the first two of those resumes, every single one of them gets weeded out.

    You really need to do something on the first page that clearly gives me a reason to hire you. When reading through a stack of resumes, I am looking for a reason to hire you. Why are you better than everyone else? If you can't give me a reason to hire you in the first page, then you are out. I am not reading the second page.

    Incidentally, I went to one of these photostat resume courses once. I did a resume on blue paper. I was held up as an example of the worst possible resume you could write. That resume netted me a job interview with a prestigious high-tech company at the time.

    Lesson: avoid having the exact same resume format/content that your classmates have.

  24. Yep, the skills list is for databases by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

    The parent is spot on. In today's recruitment business, there may be as many as three filters before you even get to the guys who are technically knowledgeable: a recruitment agency/job board if you use one, the HR database at the company you're applying for, and the HR weenie who's pulling out things that pass their automated filters to pass to the technical guys. Exactly none of these steps is likely to involve anyone technically competent who understands what the buzzwords and abbreviations mean. Java is the same as Javascript, right? But there's no way someone with five years' experience working with Linux, Apache, MySQL and Perl is going to be of any use doing a job that uses PostgreSQL and PHP.

    Of course the skills list is of limited value to the technical reviewers/interviewers. In fact, it's of no value at all unless the candidate has attached some sort of meaningful experience/skill level indicators to each entry. But to get that far with most large organisations or if agencies are involved, you've got to play the database game. That's yet another reason I prefer working for smaller companies, where the CVs that aren't obvious recycling fodder generally go straight to the technical guys who are doing the interviews.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    1. Re:Yep, the skills list is for databases by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1
      Perfect example is my current position: I'm basically on contract to provision, deploy and migrate a dozen or so complex web sites to a new ISP and hosting setup. Content of sites? Unchanged. Design? Unchanged. Implementation of firewalls? Check. Load balancing? Check. Server hardening? Check. DB server configuration (with DBA)? Check.

      Sample questions from agency re this specific position:

      • So we're looking for someone who is good with HTML.
      • What about CSS? Are you comfortable with CSS?
      • Have you used Dreamweaver?

      Ye fuckin' Gods! How did these guys so up this racket so soundly?

  25. "Things I do for fun" resume section by davidwr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For some jobs, I add a 3-4 line "Things I do for fun" section to my resume, highlighting relevant technical and non-technical hobbies and volunteer work not listed elsewhere.

    It just might get me the interview if I'm on the bubble, and it may help me know which hiring managers see me as a person not just as a skill set.

    The key is keeping it relevant and short, and remembering that the entire section is expendable if space is an issue.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  26. Re:I know your pain. (not exactly) by gosand · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Long lists of skills mean nothing.

    Hmm, well, not exactly. If you only put down the skills that you have that are your best, you may miss opportunities. I have gone over many resumes, interviewed a lot of people in my day (probably 50) and have been a hiring manager. I like seeing a list of their skills grouped by their level of understanding of the subject. If using Linux is a must-have skill, but I don't need a guru, I might be willing to look at someone who has a decent understanding of it. I have talked to people who said "yes, I have used Unix". My next question is always "What shell do you use?" If I get a blank stare, I already got my answer. But it is much easier for someone to learn MORE about Unix than to have never used it at all. I don't have a problem with people putting everything they've ever used on their resume, as long as they qualify it. Oh, and aren't stupid about it... listing all the versions of Windows you have ever used is silly. I put on mine "MS Windows - 3.11 through XP" That covers it.

    Yes, that can maybe be gleaned from job descriptions and whatnot, but things like programming knowlege can't always. I have a CS degree, and used to do programming. But I have been involved in QA and testing for my whole career of 13 years. I still have the various languages I am familiar with on my resume, with the caveat that my experience with them is fairly low. Of course, I still get people asking me about programming jobs, probably because they don't even READ my resume and probably have someone keyword matching on it.

    I can tell you, finding technical QA people is difficult, so I make sure to point out on my resume that I do have a technical background. It makes a big difference when interacting with the programming team to have a CS degree. I can read Java and pretty much figure out what is going on, but I wouldn't want to have to write anything in it. I know enough to leave that to the experts. But if my job involved writing some Java, it wouldn't be too far of a leap for me.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  27. Get a temporary job and do volunteer work by davidwr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I assume you are looking for any paycheck that pays the bills and uses your skills, and that you aren't expecting $50,000 to start. You won't get it with your history.

    After you've been employed 2-5 years GPA becomes less important.

    Get a job, any job, even if it's not in IT. You need to pay the bills and get some "employment" experience. Best would be one that has a decent-sized IT dept, preferably one in the same building you are in.

    In your spare time, do volunteer work that can boost your resume. Teach kids how to use computers or better yet, teach them how to code. Design web pages for charities. Write some code and publish it. Coach a kid's sports team - that shows leadership and management skills. The list goes on.

    Meet people. Join your local ACM or IEEE professional chapter if there is one. Join your college alumni association.

    If you have the luxury, pick a job that will lead to internal or external connections. If you work as a bank teller then get transferred to corporate, you can have lunch with some IT guys. In 3 or 4 years, they may hire you.

    Another option is to go for the low-wage IT hire. Go to your state's employment office and look for IT jobs. SOME, not all mind you, but SOME, of those companies are looking for cheap labor and won't mind a sub-3 GPA at all, if you are willing to work for under the industry norm.

    From reading your post, your biggest obstacle to getting a paycheck isn't your low GPA, but your past and possibly present shyness. If it's a current problem, join Toastmasters or a similar organization, they can help in that department.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  28. Know Thy Target by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Some employers and agencies like 1-page resumes.
    Some like no more than 2 pages.
    Some like you to use their application or their format.
    Others want your whole life story.

    Some require keywords to get past the filters.
    Others find keywords a waste of time.

    Some want 65-character-wide ASCII.
    Others want a specific version of Microsoft Word.
    Still others want PostScript or PDF.

    Some want paper, others want fax, others want email, with or without attachments.

    Some want references and salary history with your resume, others don't.

    Know your target and customize accordingly.

    Remember, getting a job is a job in itself.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  29. Goals are important by davidwr · · Score: 1

    A hypothetical college grad wanted a job that would lead to leadership roles within a couple of years. His stated objective:

    To be technical team lead within 24 months

    This tells me several things:

    This guy doesn't want to merely sling code his whole life, he wants to lead.
    I should look elsewhere if I know my company can't do this, because he won't be happy and will likely leave.
    I SHOULD consider this guy even if he doesn't meet all my other requirements, PROVIDED his resume demonstrates leadership, because in 2 years we'll need more team leads.

    All of this is useful communication between the hiring manager and the prospective employee, makes for a more productive interview, and prevents interviews that won't lead to an offer anyways.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Goals are important by tyldis · · Score: 1

      I think most employers are reasonable and do not only want the one with the best skills, but also want someone who fit the organization. The more information you provide the more likely you are to find a job that makes you happy and which you want to keep for a while.

      I hired the one who had skills over a certain threshold and who I believe will stick around for many years. Skills kan be developed, but replacing people every 1-2 years is hard.

  30. I would love to work at McDonalds for $50,000/year by davidwr · · Score: 1

    For some people IT is just a job, just like working at Mcdonalds with a better paycheck and a different skill set.

    I love the challenge of tech work, but I love the fast-paced nature of retail also.

    Give me $50,000/year to hand out burgers and frys and I could be happy. Of course in my spare time I'd be slinging code :).

    Substitute other relatively-low-paying jobs like teaching, less-skilled nursing, some less-skilled skilled trades, for McDonalds and there are probably a number of happy computer programmers who would switch for the same paycheck.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  31. Only one job? by MT628496 · · Score: 1

    I work at our school on the network staff, we deployed a new network wireless network over the summer, and I'd say I'm pretty good at linux administration. I do things like install big brother network monitor for my machines in my dorm room, just because I can and take my CS assignments and make huge projects out of the basic labs and when 11 pages came out of the printer, I told my boss that there were 3, doing some development work for the school, etc. Basically, I'm really enthusiastic. I don't think I'd be able to be a coder all day, I think sysadmin/netadmin is in my future. I'm currently working on cisco certifications and trying to learn as much about systems management as possible. However, because I spend so much time with this job, I don't really have any other outside research to speak of, or any other jobs. I'm a sophomore in college now and have held this position since halfway through freshman year. It is mine until I graduate. Does only having one job and no outside research or awards and such to speak of a hurt my chances? Do certifications help at all? I'm trying to figure out what I can do now to make myself stand out later.

    1. Re:Only one job? by dodobh · · Score: 1

      I suggest that you go for as broad a spectrum of skills as possible. Any good administrator should be able to write code, debug applications, set up a network...

      These aren't separate skills, they are part of a spectrum. If you do things right, don't worry about the first job you get. I suggest trying for a small shop where you get to be the jack of all trades. Take it for the first couple of years. Then with _that_ experience, go for a bigger company.

      While you are at it, join your local LUG (or other IT group(s)). If you answer questions regularly and politely, you will have a history on that list. Also, you might be able to find work on that list itself.

      --
      I can throw myself at the ground, and miss.
  32. Get the resumé to the hiring manager by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    That's the biggest part of it, in my opinion. My general approach has been to tailor my resumé to the people who will make the final decision, rather than the people who do the initial filtering. As a result, when it does get to the hiring manager, what they see is an accurate and concise description of my qualifications and abilities.

    As a result of that, I've generally gotten very little response from companies that have to go through significant filters in HR, but excellent responses the other way - the hiring managers who see it know much more about me before the first interview. Ultimately that saves them time if I'm not right for the job, and it gives them a lot more confidence once they've gotten to 'should we hire him?'

    On the other side of things, I just did a quick pass of resumés I've seen lately, and I can see two clear trends in them. One is "gotta pass the filter" and one is "I'm good: hire me." The former may indeed pass HR filters, but it leaves us scratching our heads. "Wait, what is this guy good at?" We generally don't see enough in them to pursue it any further. The latter are more helpful, and we're much more likely to interview their authors.

  33. I put my resume in XML by josepha48 · · Score: 2, Informative
    I used the format described at http://sourceforge.net/projects/xmlresume, which seems to be down right now or not accessable.

    I found that you should have a section called 'technical skills' to list all your skills. You can call it skill proficiency, but only if you are proficient in ALL the skills. I switched the name when I got burned in an interview at yahoo, because I put mysql and was expected to be a f'n DBA in mysql, and expected to know all date time datatypes. I'm a developer who has worked with mysql, but have always had dba's that dealt with that crap!

    I have also found that using 1 sentance bullet points, which in the xmlresume format they call 'achievements' I think, at least that is what I am using. each line says clearly how you used technology X. Also I think you should use 'active voice' I think it is called ( or is it passiv, I forget ), like 'I created blah blah using C/Java, blah, which resulted in more sales of the product.

    --

    Only 'flamers' flame!
    Does slashdot hate my posts?

    1. Re:I put my resume in XML by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A "DBA in MySql" is an oxymoron. If I ever saw a resume with that, it would go directly to the shredder just so it wouldn't insult my trashcan.

  34. Writing bad Perl code is the job security you need by SimHacker · · Score: 2

    Every Perl programmer knows the way to job security is to write piles of horrible undecipherable code, so your current employer will be afraid to fire you because they can't find anyone to take over the mess. The only reason anyone hires new Perl programmers any more these days, is to take over the horrible mess left by their previous Perl programmer who got hit by a bus. Anyone hiring Perl programmers to write new code is crazy.

    -Don

    --
    Take a look and feel free: http://www.PieMenu.com
  35. Cha ching. by Travoltus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That's why I made our company post resume format requirements in our job listings. We also warn the applicant that we'll be calling in 2nd interviewees to prove their knowledge in person.

    The number of incoming resume's shrank by 83% and now we mostly have qualified applicants. The problem now is choosing which one has the coolest sounding Mumbai or Hyberadad address.

    (Just kidding on the address thing.....)

    --
    --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
    1. Re:Cha ching. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The number of incoming resume's shrank by 83% and now we mostly have qualified applicants.

      Interesting. I see the desire for more qualified applicants; I would not have expected the desire for fewer applicants for an open position. Seeing the carpet-bomb approach that many companies take to advertise positions (even when they don't exist), it seems that they should only expect the same approach from potential employees.

      On an aside: I received a mass-printed "thanks for your resume" postcard in the mail last week, from a company I applied to last month. Even this level of courtesy seems to be going the way of the Dodo from companies these days.

    2. Re:Cha ching. by Travoltus · · Score: 1

      Lots of applicants are like me; if I see a requirement for 5 years of Cell programming experience by 2006, I'm just not even going to waste my time. (Not that we ask for that, but still!)

      Your post is well said, though; I'd like to see an in-house application form online which will tell the applicant what we want, and then give them a battery of staff-written questions that will challenge them to show what they really know. Each staff member would add two questions a week to the rotation.

      That's what I want...

      --
      --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
  36. this is what i do: by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

    Basically, this is how my resume looks:

    Education

    This section just has the schooling and special certs I've got, with the dates of accomplishment and any other pertinent information (GPA, magna cum laude, etc), in table form.

    Experience

    This is a list of past/current employers and the dates of employment/contract, listed with what the job entailed. If you've got a lot, just list the most significant ones and note that you've done so to give a better picture of your overall experience (letting them know that additional information will be made available upon request).

    Skills

    Conceise, organized groups of technology skills - basically, buzz words. I add and remove skills as they become outdated/ill-used, and taylor the list for each application. Again, note there are other minor skills not included for breivity's sake - they don't care if you're able to configure and set up apache or what have you if you're being hired for a development position, but they'll probably be interested in experience in kernel development or apache module creation. Make it buzz-word compliant.

    Interests

    Build stock cars for a hobby? Involved in a competitive sport? Published a book? List them very briefly. Demonstrate cross-competency and personality - useless for screening, but if you get past the entry HR shmuck to a real interview, then chances are it'll be more personally beneficial than not having it. They can tell in synopsis that you're not just a coder/administrator/whatever and are knowledgeable outside your realm of expertise. Obviously it'll be more useful for certain types of jobs than others, so use discretion.

    I try and keep it to a single page with multiple columns per section, with a right-face section header, and a 10pt font. ... of course, as this works for me, I'm probably shooting myself in the foot by giving advice on the matter to duplicate it. :P

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
  37. HTML by phliar · · Score: 1

    Yes, LaTeX is nice, and in a past life I wouldn't have expected anything else. (Academia -- paper CVs being handed around is how things were done.)

    Now, though, I really don't want to have to keep track of any more paper, my desk is already piled high. Nothing beats a simple URL sent in email. (HTML attached to email (not HTML email!) is second.) And just plain HTML, no flash/backgrounds/blink/... Don't set fonts and sizes, let the reader's browser select the fonts to use. (Nothing pisses me off more than having to read a 3-pt font because yor platform and mine are different. Dark blue text on a black background would just complete the disaster.) Only use plain markup: H[1-6], blockquote, dl/ul/ol, em, b, p, etc. Don't use tables for page layout.

    Experience should be the first section, because that's what I'll use for an idea of your skills. One paragraph for each job, with an outline of responsibilities and tools used. Try to be brief -- no need for the entire saga, that will get covered in a phone screen or interview. Try to get all the important information on the first page.

    --
    Unlimited growth == Cancer.
  38. The one-track resume. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmmm, how to write a good technical resume? Well you know you're at slashdot when the focus is on all things technical. How about, how to write a good resume for all kinds of jobs? Say for artistic, managerial, sales, or even physical labour? That way you can go beyound whatever comes along (unless IT is ALL you ever plan to do) and get a career.

  39. Re:Writing bad Perl code is the job security you n by Simon80 · · Score: 1

    Hahaha, mod parent funny!

  40. Pump up all the Open Source projects you worked on by wonkavader · · Score: 1

    Your resume should hit hard on all the open source projects you contributed to. The fact that an employer can look at a website with an interesting or useful project and see (or at least imagine) your name in the list of contributers is a MASSIVE help in getting that first job.

    Include all your contributions, no matter how small.

  41. Importance of GPA after working for a few years by Osurak · · Score: 1

    For all you hiring managers, how important is the inclusion of a college undergraduate GPA after the applicant has been in the workforce for a few years? It seems that the value of that measure would decline over time, and be replaced by descriptions of whats actually been accomplished in the jobs held since graduation.

  42. the liberal arts are a lie by mrgah · · Score: 1
    Honestly it seems like the entry-level job market is particularly terrible right now with what would normally be an entry-level job seemingly wanting a degree of experience that counters the idea of it being "entry-level".

    I totally agree with this. When I graduated in 2005 from a reputable liberal arts school (in Greek and Latin), I decided to take a couple of years off before going back to grad school. My hope was to establish myself in some sort of career, so that I had a backup plan when I got out of grad school. (if you think the job market in IT is tough, it has nothing on being a professor in the humanities)

    I'm not going to pretend I did everything perfectly the first time around, but my resume and interviewing skills really aren't that bad. From academics alone, I think it was clear that I'm intelligent, dedicated and hard-working. All I hoped for was a toehold, at any the many jobs I applied for-- just a chance to get in there and prove myself... and nothing.

    I finally gave up and got a job as an administrative assistant for a year, and that was pretty soul-crushing. But over the summer I taught a camp for middle school kids, and remembered that kids are more fun than answering phones. Now I'm substitute teaching, and, provided I get accepted somewhere, I'll be starting grad school next fall.

    Furthermore, I've managed to put together a portfolio of tech projects, and have a much better idea how to conduct a job search. In the event that I get out of grad school and can't find an academic position, I think I'll have a much better chance of getting a decent job.

    I'd advise any slashdottieri who are considering going to a liberal arts school/majoring in the humanities is that you should think hard about that decision. My liberal arts/humanities friends are for the most part poor and miserable, whereas my friends who majored in CS/engineering/whatever are rich and reasonably happy.

    It's important to be tough-minded and pragmatic at every stage of the game, and it's never a bad idea to have a second option.

    Professors and liberal arts/humanities boosters will tell you that being liberally educated trains you to do whatever you want to, and that the skills you gain (thinking critically, communicating) will be an advantage in any job. They may have a point, and I suspect that it's at the entry-level that the liberally educated have the hardest time. But that transition is a bitch.

    So think hard about double majoring.

    1. Re:the liberal arts are a lie by Belgand · · Score: 1

      Not always the case. A friend of mine graduated with a degree in engineering (EE, IIRC) and spent about 2-3 years or so working at Costco before he was finally able to wrangle his way into an engineering job. His wife majored in history and worked as a bank teller during college. While her degree languishes largely unused she's been able to obtain a pretty good job at a mortgage company.

  43. filtering by staple position ... by pbhj · · Score: 1

    >>> Do you also filter by the orientation of the staple on the resume?

    I would. If the staple(s) are on the wrong edge, or opposite edges away from the vertices, your candidate lacks attention to detail OR is a moron.

    The filtering would however be Bayesian.

    >>> You can't be bothered to turn the page of a document right in front of you

    As the applicant it's your job to summarise your skills and experience. If you provide a good summary then providing a link to further information seems a good idea. A good summary will make me want to know more. However, the link may be your downfall as an alternative way to get more information is to invite you for interview.

  44. Resume = Marketing Brochure by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1
    The Resume is a marketing brochure that is supposed to get you an interview. Very few companies want to see a full biography when they ask for a resume.

    The rule with marketing brochures is to know your audience. If it is customary in your industry to send novellas in place of resumes, by all means go for it. You must be in academia where you put every frickin' paper you published ever in the history of your life and your ancestors' lives. But for most corporate jobs, you are hurting your chances by submitting a 10-pager. Them's the breaks.

    I realize that in your ideal world, hiring managers wouldn't be busy and wouldn't be deluged with resumes for each open need. But the fact of the matter is that they are both of these things, and as a result, the time they can spend per resume is short. Marketing is about making a sale, not about living in your idealized world. Ignore your customers at your own peril.

    --
    They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
  45. My Story by Cytlid · · Score: 1

    I can't believe I missed this story!

      Anyhow, I hate to quote another site, but I had read this really good article from eweek about tech resumes. It was awesome. It was such a good article, I could have sworn it was covered here. 10 Ways to Tweak your Tech Resume.

      So here's the short version of my story. I liked my job as an admin at an ISP in NY. We decided to sell our house and move down south to SC. I knew getting a job wasn't going to be a huge problem, but my resume needed help. All my friends were harrassing me about it, in fact. (That and the fact I was going to be moving 800 miles away).

      I saw this article and read through it thoroughly. My resume was looking rather dated. So I threw the entire thing out and started from scratch. I didn't use a template, picked fonts I thought were appealing, and it was bascially me in writing in less than 2 pages. I took about 20 skills I had (actually "clumped" them together) and made a quick chart of what I was good at (and not so good at). And this information was very objective, as if someone other than myself was writing it. It was more like a report card.

    So first I had my profile, who I was and what I was trying to accomplish. Next was my skills matrix. Follwed by my experience and job history. Then a brief description of training, certificates and school (as well as accomplishments). That was it. I quickly got a good job and started three days after I moved here. Of course, I went ballistic posting my resume on all the job sites. Needless to say I got a ton of hits, mostly from recruiters. I still get them today.

    Driving a 27' truck with a car carrier behind it 800 miles... well that was another story. Let's just say I have a new respect for professional truck drivers.

    --
    FLR
  46. Re:Writing bad Perl code is the job security you n by alienmole · · Score: 1

    That works until they find someone bloody-minded enough to rewrite the Perl program. I've done that, with a Perl program consisting of about 10,000 lines total, which behaved almost randomly because of how badly it was written (originally by a high school student). That conversion was one of the most lucrative short-term contracts I've ever had, although it was also one of the most painful to do - that Perl code was *horrible*, and there was no detailed specification other than the code itself.

  47. Joel's advice on sorting resumes by gwyrdd+benyw · · Score: 1
    I'm surprised no one has linked to Joel on Software yet. Our pal Joel has written some good stuff on sorting resumes as an employer, and what job applicants can do to get your resume read.

    --

    I adblock all animated gifs.
    Blessed be the prime numbered slashdotters