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What If Apple Made A Cell Phone And No One Cared?
PreacherTom writes "Prudential Equity Group analyst Jesse Tortora penned a note saying that Apple is readying a music phone — and a separate, combination video and music phone. He expects Apple to introduce the devices in January at Macworld, a conference for Mac enthusiasts where the company typically debuts new products. At least one of the phones will offer Wi-Fi connectivity and both will become available in the March quarter of 2007 ... but will anyone care?"
Yes. People will care.
Next?
I detect no bias in the above submission, none.
www.GrenadeHop.com
If you build it, they will come. If it's white - shiny metal, or has a click wheel, the people will buy it for the cool-factor alone. As long as they don't break quickly, and they can fit them to play MP3s, and add maybe one or two features like a laser pointer, or built in toothbrush, the cell phone market will never be the same.
Oh You POS
Excuse me, Mr. Analyst, but I suspect you're underestimating Apple.
I think if Apple actually has something in that line coming out it'll surprise you. Yet another music phone isn't radical enough for Steve Jobs, battery life or whatever aside, besides, the ROKR was ho-hum which should say something about what people really want. I wouldn't be suprised to see something clever like combination unit, which merges a cell phone with an iPod, either could be used independently, probably partnering with someone like Motorola to make the phone part to spread the risk (assuming Motorola is willing to give it another shot.) Perhaps it'll also do VoIP in some clever way. Preemptively dropping Apple's shares on such speculation seems a bit rash.
In any event, the iPod is getting on in years, celebrating it's 5th birthday, still going strong, but always needs some little tweak (like the slim and tiny nano) to keep in interesting and trendy. I agree with the analysts regarding an integrated unit with battery concerns and such, since most people do keep a separate mp3 player even when their phone will play tunes. I've got a phone which will play music, but I'd rather not be having to recharge my battery every day. The most likely place for me to listen to tunes is in the vehicle and it'll have a CD/sat. radio with USB to handle that. Taking on a commodity market would be fitting oneself for an albatross.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Apple, who produced one of the most talked-about piece of consumer electronics in the last 10 years, gets ready to combine it with a phone, probably THE most talked-about piece of consumer electronics in the past 10 years.
Why would anyone care?
there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
The fact that a story was written about it asking if anyone would care PROVES that someone would care; otherwise we wouldn't bother reading a story about something no one cared about.
Duh.
Click on those ads, people. Cuz that's the only reason this story was even published.
An iPod that is a phone *will* get attention.
Microsoft might. I think a smart strategy for Apple would be to rumor technology they know is a bad idea then watch Microsoft spend billions to play catch up with nonexistent products. It's kind of how Reagan collapsed the Soviet Union.
Analysts fail to realize the Apple puts a tremendous amount of thought into their designs. The author cites a statistic that most people with MP3 players also have music-capable phones, but doesn't mention that none of those music phones have the Scroll Wheel. That is what makes the iPod, not the iTMS, iTunes or the stylish design...the scroll wheel is the reason why the iPod is a success. The iPhone will have one as well. "Limited appeal" my ass; The author obviously doesn't understand the appeal of current Apple products, otherwise he wouldn't be questioning their move into the handset market. This is going to be an exciting year if Apple realizes the iPhone; the average iPod owner recognizes Apple's ingenious user interface and mobile phones' general lack of one.
It doesn't matter how wonderful the phone is.
If Apple lets Verizon Wireless (my CSP) or Cingular cripple it (and that's about the only way the Cellular Service Providers will sell it) then it will be just as useless as every other phone out there.
And so, I won't care.
Lots of phones out there that have great specs as announced by the manufactures. And then the phone is crippled in software by the cell service companies, and it's a piece of trash that no one wants. Or, you can buy the uncrippled version for $499 (still with a 2-year contract).
I don't think even Steve Jobs could convince Verizon not to cripple a phone so that it will only accept music through the Verizon cellular data network. Because a phone that isn't so crippled won't need an over-priced data plan, and will lose Verizon profits that they are convinced they deserve.
Sorry, no.
Part of the joy of Apple products that the they control the entire experience. Part of that is that (with some notable exceptions) ongoing costs and hassles are minimized. I have an iPod. I love it. It works great with the iTunes Music Store. You don't *have* to use the iTMS, though. You won't have that option with a Verizon-crippled cellphone.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is... Oops. Frank, I've got your sig again! Where's mine?
I don't really care about iPods, but that doesn't sound bad at all. Innovative, no - but maybe it will be competitive or slightly better than other products. Why such the negative attitude?
Maybe someone's planning a reverse Pump-and-Dump? Predict an impending blunder for Apple, watch shares drop, buy shares, wait for Apple to roll out something as addictive to conspicuous consumers as sugar to an 8 year old and then sell when the stock price skies.
Maybe not, maybe he's just having a bad day and his pissant boss told him he had to write something and this is what they came up with.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
No Newton user would sell their Newton.
[UID-HeinzIntel]
Because if Apple makes it then people will actually be able to figure out how to use the stupid thing. Every non-techie person I know uses their phone for making calls and maybe as an alarm clock. Phone user interfaces are so horrible that even the more technically inclined usually have to work at making them, well, work as designed.
With regards to people worrying about Cingular, Verizon, etc. crippling them - I would bet that Apple set themselves up as their own virtual carrier like Virgin did (leasing airtime from Cingular / T-Mobile if they want global compatibility, or from Sprint and Verizon if they want decent broadband speed - not to turn this into a GSM/CDMA flame-war). This way they can have their iTunes store on the phone as well...
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Apple products do not appeal to the masses because Apple sells its products at a premium.
Last I checked, the iPod was an Apple product-- if their is any other DAP on the market with such broad appeal, I'm pretty much unaware of it. Not that I'm a fanboy, but come on, they own that market.
Along the same lines, why buy an Apple cell phone when you can buy a Nokia phone for less money?
Why would anyone buy an iPod when the can get better and cheaper DAPs from Creative and Sandisk? Marketing, mass appeal, and a loyal fan base. To suggest that an Apple cell phone wouldn't sell is pretty short sighted.
Which Dell model, exactly, can you purchase with OS X? Assuming the answer is "none", I think your characterization of the Dell system as "equivalent" is a bit misplaced.
I don't think Nokia makes a phone that seemlessly connects with iTunes, or handles video from iTunes.
There are oodles of people with existing iTunes libraries (some iPod owners, some not) for whom an iTunes phone is a major selling point. Now, if you want to say "why by an Apple phone if a Motorola phone is cheaper", well, do we know that an Apple phone will be cheaper than an otherwise-similarly-equipped Apple-licensed Motorola iTunes phone?
Frankly, it looks like these 'analysts' have only one common thread: Apple is making a big mistake.
The reasons keep changing, but apparently Apple is going to be crushed by . Sell your Apple stock before it's too late!
Considering the number of analysts who really don't get Apple, the article isn't much of a suprise.
The article even quotes an analyst who thinks Apple's next big thing is selling an Apple computer with Windows preloaded. Here's a hint: Apple is not out to become the next Dell. Apple has their own OS, and its users generally buy Apple to get that OS.
There have been rumors of an Apple phone (not a Motorola or other phone that uses iTunes) for years now. I have difficulty believing that the same company that changed its entire product line from PowerPC to Intel chips in just over a year would take several years to develop a telephone.
I don't mean to discount the complexity of modern phones, of course, but Apple has wireless technology in its Airport lineup, and has embedded experience from the iPod. They have the pieces.
Frankly, it just doesn't add up that Apple would try to enter an extremely competitive market where the margins are so thin.
Let's look at the history of the analyst's wisdom:
1.) Apple has to enter the mobile phone market, or it will be destroyed. (ie. smart phones will replace iPods, and Apple is going to get left behind)
2.) Apple is readying a phone, but it'll be late to market and Apple doesn't know what it's doing.
- Two (that I know of) phones that play iTunes are released; neither are from Apple.
3.) Admit reality, and recognize the faults with theory #1
- According to TFA, playing music isn't something most consumers care about in a phone.
4.) Find a new 'mistake' for Apple: That they must still be readying the iPhone, and it will be a colossal failure.
-- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
You mean like the Mac Pro that costs $1,000 less than the equivalent Dell, doesn't require cash shelled out for antivirus, firewall, and antispyware software, and runs Mac OS X?
Because it's likely the Apple phone won't suck like today's phones do?
These were easy questions, got any others?
"Sufferin' succotash."
And Apple did their best to cripple the hell out of it. The "iTunes" software on it would only allow 100 songs to be sync'd, even though the phone was capable of holding far more and the phone's audio player would play as many as you want. I don't even know why Moto or Apple bothered with that. I think S.J. knew it was a dumb idea because they introduced the iPod Nano immediately after they introduced the ROKR at whatever keynote that was. Moto was pissed because the Nano totally blew it away buzz wise. I can only hope S.J. did iTunes on Moto to get an easy "in" with the folks at Cingular so that the iPhone will have a home as soon as it's released.
Exactly. In the US, there is no market for a mobile 'phone with WiFi because the customers are the networks. There might be a market for a 'phone that just did WiFi (no GSM, or whatever), because the customers would be individuals. Market it as an iPod/Phone, and people will expect to pay iPod price. With iTMS integration, Apple could even potentially subsidise it based on future music store sales.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
People WILL buy Apple's products even if it contained top-notch technology, because they make it easy to use.
This is coming from a guy who hates OS-X & all Apple products, but for other reasons.
The main reason why I see this will sell like crazy in the gulf (Kuwait, UAE, KSA), is because of the huge marketing it gets here. The most basic way that iPods were being sold like nuts in Kuwait is that Virgin Megastores were the first to introduce them. And, in Kuwait, if you want to sell something, you put it in an expensive store AND EVERYBODY will buy!!! Seriously, Virgin sells iPods for almost double the price: Where an iPod would worth 60 K.D. ($180 roughly), Virgin sells it at 110-130 K.D. !! And yes, people are STILL buying, even at such high rates.
I really don't understand why rivals like SanDisk target places like Kuwait, where people are stupid enough to pay too much. (If people bought it online and got it shipped to Kuwait, it would still be cheaper than Virgin)
Mod points are a dangerous tool. Abuse them wisely.
I personally think the article title has it about right. People don't generally care about the brand of cell phone, they care about the service plan offered with it. Why do you think most phones are constructed so poorly they're basically disposable? If the chinsy little motorola iTunes phones didn't take off, why would a phone that has a full blown iPod be received any better? Phones are almost always a utility first, and a source of entertainment last.
If Apple really wants to enter the cell phone business, they should focus on service, rather than hardware, and open the service to compatible brands/models with the processing power to utilize whatever services they plan to offer. One possible use for an Apple-based cellular service, would be to merge ichat support into it. That way, a cell phone could contact a user with VOIP by their ichat/aim user id... or an ichat/aim user could double click on a user to automatically dial their cell phone and initiate an audio chat with that person when the call is answered.
But if Apple goes on to use a closed system with only links to iTMS, I can't see how such a product would succeed. They'd have more luck simply giving the 6G iPod a built in wifi adapter to access itunes music store directly, when it's in range of an open network.
8==8 Bones 8==8
yeah, the play button... I only put music on it that I want to play... makes finding it 100% success.
That's a retarded response and you know it. Put your whole library on it. Then play all the "rock" songs on shuffle. Then, locate that song titled "Aeroplane" where you can't remember the artist name. The iPod goes a long way toward making your music library just as manageable on the go as it is on your computer.
iPods are far more than a status symbol. I always thought I wouldn't be one of those guys, and I am. I broke down and bought a 60GB one. Let me put this in perspective though. I am a huge music fan. I buy 2-3 cds a month on average and generally goto a concert every month if there's anyone around worth seeing. I love it a lot, and listen to music all day in lab. I never liked using the all in one digital jukebox thing itunes was, and used xmms for years. I had my music organized by artist and just put on the directory I wanted to hear.
Then I bought a mac. I started using iTunes, I went through and reencoded my music as I realized oggs were a waste of my time. iTunes just made all the things I did easy. After a while i thought about getting an iPod too. however I had already ripped over 20GB of music to my hdd and I had gotten nowhere near done with my music collection. I looked around at audio players, and I looked at integrating one with my car. I may have been able to save $20-$30 by getting some no name brand, however most of the other major players at the time weren't offering 60GB players. Kind of sold me on an iPod. The fact that I could hook it up to my car ($95 stereo, $75 adapter and done) made it even better.
The question to me isn't "do i need 60 GB of music with me at all times?" The answer is obviously no. That would take me a month to listen to. It's not that I need it, however when I'm about to go somewhere or whatever I don't want to go "oh shit what do I want to listen to... let me throw this on my mp3 player". Instead I grab my ipod and choose something I want to hear. Or I go on a car trip, and decide to listen to a different band.. no problem, I have it loaded on here. When you have a music collection of over 300 cds it's wonderful to listen to whatever you want, whenever you want. You might call me lazy for not being willing to reload it every time. Sure I am. I also value my time, and don't want to waste it.
Now with that all said, one of the biggest motivaters for getting an iPod was so I wouldn't have to keep so much music on my laptop (instead I kept it on my file server) so I could listen to music in lab. I know it's an expensive external hard drive, but when I'm driving anywhere, or walking or biking, or whatever I definately don't regret it.
Was my iPod expensive? Sure I paid a good chunk of change for it. Do i worry about my battery? no, if it dies I order a kit online for $40 to replace it. Is an iPod for you? No, you obviously don't find it worthwhile, however for those of us who do, it is naive of you to think we buy them only as a status symbol. Maybe some people buy the nanos or shuffles just to have an apple ipod, but most of us who buy the big ones are doing it for ease of use and convenience
Phil
Phil Schiller made a comment a little while back - "we think the camera is on the wrong side of the phone". I think you are going to see some category-busting features like videoconferencing.
"The world is a construct of forceful imagination. Those who don't know walk around in the reailties of those who do"
My interest is a little peaked, but they made no mention of details.
"Peaked", as best fits this sentence, means "having reached its climax; waning". As in, "Her interest in me peaked after I walked to my 1983 VW Diesel Rabbit".
Perhaps what you meant was "piqued"? The meaning here would be "provoked or aroused".
It's not just that spelling makes you look stupid in written communications - in cases such as this, it can actually cause your message to be strongly mis-interpreted!
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
I think iTunes the player - not the store - is still a competitive advantage. It's an extremely powerful and logical music database app and it's, IMHO, the slickest, easiest, rip, mix, burn, sync tool available for MP3 players going. A good example is the finesse with which it treats podcasts. It syncs both ways so that podcasts you have listened to all the way through - either on the iPod or in iTunes - are deleted from either ( if you choose that in preferences ). Also, Smart Playlists are hella cool.
"The world is a construct of forceful imagination. Those who don't know walk around in the reailties of those who do"
Because apple has made a bundle of money on the two things phones still desperately need:
1)Usability - Apple is very good at creating user friendly interfaces
2)Simple, streamlined design - Something which very few phones have these days
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
The real reason why the cell phone/Ipod hybrid will fail to materialize soon, is that mp3s played on cellphones sound like crap, IMHO.
It doesn't take too much market research to tell you that people hate the way ringtones sound. Not to mention that some people find that people blaring songs on their Ipod is the '06 equivelent of blasting music on a boombox.
How many people are going to carry around earbuds to listen to music? Where do the earbuds go when you have to answer the phone? You can't expect people to listen to a 5 minute song and relax while holding the phone up to their ears right? Or do you now need two bluetooth ear pieces? I think the whole idea is silly.
I'm going to guess you're in the US. What relevance does this have?
You're not qualified to judge "today's phones" if you live in the US. You're behind the times, in most cases a /long way/ behind the times. Two way cellular video calling? The rest of the world has had it for /years/. Broadband speeds, a la EV-DO and beyond? Again, the world has had it for years. 3G? Years.
Have you seen the interface on something /new/, like a Nokia N92? Clue: Nokia and other manufacturers don't overly "care" about the US market. They have to re-engineer the software for their phones for TDMA and all such crap, and given that the rest of the world tends to have a far higher penetration of cellular devices, it's a lower priority. I've seen people boasting about their "new top of the line" phone which, if you go to the .au site of the manufacturer is flagged way down in "Discontinued Products".
That being said, we'll address the other issue. Your complete lack of actual 'evidence' for your opinion. I'll be the first to admit Apple knows UI. Guess what? Building a next generation cellular phone is a bit more than "stick a UI on a two way radio". It's playing massive catchup to companies with 20 years of knowledge building these devices. Nokia used to (still does) make /toilet paper/. They engineered their way into their place now with the expenditure of TENS OF BILLIONS of dollars. And you, you think Jobs will click his fingers and those magic Apple phones will just piss all over Nokia, Motorola, Ericsson, Samsung, etc. I'm impressed at your optimism.
Right, so an iPod isn't the best player for you. But my point was that it is the best player for some other people, and they have valid reasons for choosing it!
I have no problem with you using a portable CD player if you want; why are you so bent out of shape about other people using iPods? It's none of your concern anyway, so you're just being a meddlesome bigot!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
And I'm fairly sure you're wrong, because I am a counterexample.
I'm a Mac (and Linux) user, and I like iTunes. I like its method of organization, I like the Party Shuffle, and I especially like Smart playlists. The only thing I don't like is its integration with iTMS (I hate DRM), so I just don't use that feature.
Now, when I decided to get a DAP, I had two options: get an iPod, which would automatically sync with my iTunes library and support my Smart Playlists, or get some other DAP that wouldn't. Guess which I chose!
In fact, you know what? Being a geek, I probably would have otherwise preferred one of those other players with the radio tuner and the cryptic interface and whatnot, but iTunes integration actually trumped all those other considerations. So yes, working with iTunes wasn't just on my priority list, it was indeed at the top of it!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz