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Microsoft Explains the Lumines Live! Mess
1up has up a discussion with Microsoft's Greg Canessa, Group Manager for Xbox Live Arcade. There, he attempts to explain what's the deal with Lumines Live!. Specifically, why are they charging us an arm and a leg for a rerelease of an already well-sold portable title? "That's actually done by the developer. As a platform, we provide a list of available price tiers. And we work very closely, of course, with the developer. We provide suggestions and it is a consultation between the two companies, but ultimately it is up to the developer to set the price." I'm looking at you, Q!.
So sure, Q! got greedy... but the gatekeepers let it happen. And the ultimate reflection is on the publisher and service provider. Microsoft.
Q replies: What have I got to do with any of this, you ridiculous mortal? I was on the other side of the Universe playing 3-D star-cluster checkers with the Squire of Gothos. I do enjoy taking his pieces and watching them go nova. But if you really want me to do something about this, I suppose I could. Just make sure Jean-Luc doesn't hear about this. I can't abide his pedantry.
funny that you have apple > all in your comment. God why the fuck do I even continue to read Slashdot.
look at how he plays with the words, his answer to every one of those questions is "It's a complete game, you can buy more levels" I've played it already, and it is not the complete game. I could see it as making sense if they decided you get v and w game modes if you buy the base package, and if you buy the addon pack you get game modes x y and z. They actually give you multiplayer and one single player mode, then one level of the other modes, which on completion tell you to buy more if you want to continue playing.
Personally, I think that's absolutely wrong. They should say something more along the lines of "Congratulations! You've won! If you want additional challenges buy the next package!" For some reason, it seems better if you're told there is more to play if you want, not that you must buy more to finish the game. This is a problem in semantics, that is all. Q! comes off as greedy in this deal, and Microsoft comes off as ignorant, it truly is a pity. I was going to buy Lumines Live until I found out about this, hopefully our wallets will let Microsoft and Q! know that this is unacceptable.
disclaimer: I've been known to store numbers in my ass for which to dig out when quantities are required.
... before it gets better
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6160388.html
So, what you're saying is that we're supposed to think that everyone's out to make us (the consumers) happy and realize that Microsoft and the Developers are all really generous and caring organizations, and that we should just collectively shut our yap? Oh, wow, gee, I never looked at it like that before! How could I have been so out of touch all these years. Wait...
FUCK YOU!
Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
Phase 2: Developer wants to make money, so price drops
Phase 3: Consumer Benefits, Developer Profits!!!
Yay economics 101!
.. that Microsoft are now allowing companies to release buggy games and patch them via Live. Don't believe me? Microsoft's policy on X-Box 1 was that no patches were allowed. Hence, games had to be near perfect. What few minor bugs there were were hardly show stoppers. Then they relaxed their policy and with X-Box 360, there have been titles that erased your save, nuked your hi-score and more. I didn't buy a 360 so I could deal with the same kind of release-then-patch crap I got on the PC.
Ultimately, it is the developer that sets the price... but only after lots of consultation and suggestion from Microsoft? How much of a cut does MS get from each sale? Does that cut change depending on what the price of the software is?
If Microsoft is actively influence the developers and making more money when developers raise the prices and/or split software into multiple pieces, then yes, we are justified in blaming MS for being too greedy.
It looks to me like MS got caught with their hand in the cookie jar, and is now trying to find a scapegoat to pin the blame on.
With the orignal xbox people were up in arms about Microsoft demanding control and and blamed them for EA and others not wanting to play that way. Now Microsoft has loosened up and given the publishers more control and people are bitching that Microsoft needs to demand control. So which is it? Complain with your wallet, if you dont agree with the pricing structure, then dont buy it.
Let's look at it this way. I assume I run a mall, and we got 3 game stores (we are kewl like that). And a fourth opens up. They charge 200 percent more than the other malls. That's fine because it's competition. But remember I run the mall, not the store.
Let's look at it another way, Assume I now have those 4 stores. Store four is not doing well, they decide to drop their prices to half the price of the other stores. This is troubling because then everything becomes sales and in fighting. But again I run the mall, if the contract/lease says so (and you better believe Microsoft can do this), I can remove that store from my mall.
I'm sorry Microsoft, you own the marketplace. If you disagree you pull support. There's a lot of competition to even get ON the marketplace, and guess what. You run it so you decide who gets on. Pull support from Lumines, and give it to someone better. Stop allowing people to over charge for games on your service because it has ruined what was a giant boon for you.
Microsoft also charges companies for ever thing on the marketplace (whether it's a share of the profits or a flat rate for patches). I'm sure they are getting rich off the over price because how ever many units sold I'm sure they get a couple bucks. It benefits them to make us pay multiple times.
" You know about Arcade, but, you know, for Marketplace, we have over 1,500 pieces of content in Marketplace; we have over 70 million downloads. " Again we use weasel numbers. 70 Million DOWNLOADs. notice he doesn't meantion purchases. How many people download a demo? I'd be willing to put it in the 200K on the first week (Saint's row got 300K at record highs).
Microsoft realizes they don't have to be competetive any more. They can back anyone they want, just like they do with their OS business, because they are the only ones out. Sony has lost a huge amount of faith from consumers so what does Microsoft have to realize.
And realize not a single game has dropped in price on the Marketplace since it's been released. Why should they? There's not used games out there to compete with, there's no other way to get this game. They actually have a monopoly on it to the point you no longer can get it elsewhere. Why do you think people have been so anti download service consoles. Because of this exact situation, you'll no longer have an alternative then to pay the price Microsoft demands.
In a related news, I wrote microsoft talking about the fact that this is a horrible move. Guess what I got back. Instruction on how to connect my Xbox 360. I'm not even joking. Don't think this is the end, because Microsoft will continue to screw customers on the Xbox Live Marketplace until we say "enough", we've seen it with Windows, Office, and now they have pulled back their lips and shown what they have started on the console market.
Maybe, because occasionally, a post can get modded down, even if it does bash Microsoft and praise Apple?
I'm scared of numbers that can't be written as a fraction. It's an irrational fear.
Now he doesn't have to make his favorite gaming company look bad anymore, at least on this subject. Note how he accepts Microsoft's shifting the blame for this rip-off without question. I dare anyone to imagine, without laughing, Zonk doing the same thing regarding a game on Sony's online service.
Rob
My sig had nothing to do with the post. All I was doing is bashing Microsoft. ^_~
I already said this in the last Lumines thread, but it's worth saying again:
Nobody reasonable is pissed off about Lumines being broken up into downloadable content packages. I think the general consensus all around is that selling the game in this way is an interesting and totally acceptable way of doing business. But the base package for Lumines sells for $15, which is a premium price, more than any other piece of content in the XBox Live arcade at this time. For a premium price, people expect a premium product, and they naturally feel like they've been taken advantage of when a product that commands that kind of price is little more than an advertisement for aftermarket add-ons.
Expectation: Premium product for a premium price.
Reality: The base package of Lumines ships with half the levels (skins) that the PSP version had. Further, most of these levels are just recycled content from the original PSP release, and they are set to cycle at twice the frequency of the PSP version (presumably in order to encourage you to buy more in an add-on pack). It is possible for a player with minimal skill to see all the content the base package of Lumines Live has to offer in one or two playthroughs. So already, the product is sub-par when compared to existing versions. It's a little disappointing, but everyone's bought easy games before, and this one is a quality ride while it lasts. We could all live with this, except that we know Microsoft is waiting in the wings to sell us more levels for another $7.50. So now we feel ripped off, but at least our faces aren't being rubbed in it. Until...
Expectation: Game modes listed in the main menu are functional and complete.
Reality: Three of the single-player game modes are incomplete, but there is no indication of this until you try to play them. Lumines will happily let you play 1 round of vs. CPU, 5 rounds of the 55-round Mission mode, or 5 rounds of the 55-round challenge mode. Then, much like shareware of old, it displays an advertisement for the add-on packs which enable these features.
Expectation: If you're going to play the B-E-S-U-R-E-T-O-D-R-I-N-K-Y-O-U-R-O-V-A-L-T-I-N-E with your customers, have the add-on packs ready to purchase.
Reality: It's a cocktease. The add-on packs weren't there to purchase at the time the game was made available for download (the Challenge mode pack, which also contains a lot of new skins, has since been released for $7.50).
Reasonable people expected to pay a reasonable price for a complete game, with optional add-ons available for purchase should they so desire. Instead they got an overpriced, incomplete game that shoved advertisements in their faces for products they couldn't even buy if they wanted to.
Microsoft and Q! could have solved this out the gate by lowering the price to $12.50, which is more in-line with other high-end Arcade content, and removing the ads from the game. Just removing Challenge Mode, vs. CPU, and Mission mode from the main menu altogether unless the add-on packs were purchased would have made a huge difference in people's expectations.
Disappointing your customers is never a good way to do business.
Even Jesus hates listening to Creed.
Oddly this is reminiscent of the UMD fiasco with Sony.
SCE provided the tools and ability to create movie UMDs without setting any standards like price, or special features.
Movie houses jumped on the format and offered crappy movies, without commentary, for an outrageous price.
Sony is going to try to relaunch the format, but they are also going to set standards for price-points and what has to be on the disk.
Likewise MS is probably going to start being more critical of price-points.
I think its just a natural reaction to greed on the part of the content providers, when finally let loose from the control they've traditionally been under.
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
Virtually impoverished gamers may be drawn to download the packs, as the Xbox 360 version of The Godfather apparently lacks the cheat code for free money that can be found in the PC, PlayStation 2, Xbox, and PlayStation Portable versions of the game.
Seesh, and even after purchaing some of the not-in-game junk it still costs you IN GAME MONEY!
Like I have said before, that is just one good example of why I am hating the way ALL consoles are going with microtransactions.
Yes but that ingame money is usually earned in the game. I guess it would be way too unbalancing if the unlocks made those new and powerful things free for the player in the game. Imagine replaying the game and no longer needing to save money because the most powerful weapons are free.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
"And not have to stick it to every gamer, many of whom don't want additional content, and having to raise the price for everybody, and stick it to 'em by forcing everyone to buy all of the content."
Oh... what? I'm pretty sure everyone prefers MORE content in their games, rather than less. What the hell? I can see it now... "DUDE this is fucking SWEET I beat the game in 8 minutes! Man I own! There's only 3 levels but whatever, right? This shit is CRAZY!"