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France To Subsidize Games As Art

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the 50-percent-art-and-50-percent-business dept.

The New York Times is reporting on efforts by the French culture ministry to treat videogames as art. About time. This initiative will include giving tax breaks for game development, and national recognition of game developer achievements (like the arts award received by Shigeru Miyamoto this March). From the article: "With a total of roughly 100 video game companies, France, along with Britain, has long produced more video games than the rest of Europe combined, according to the market research firm Idate, of Montpellier, France. Of late, however, the French companies have been facing tough times. Infogrames has been struggling against high debt, and an American rival, Electronic Arts, bought 19 percent of Ubisoft's shares in 2004. And Vivendi Games earns most of its revenue from one best-selling game, World of Warcraft, said Laurent Michaud, head of the video games division at Idate. 'It is true that the French video game sector is fragile,' Mr. Michaud said. 'But this is true for companies in all markets due to the quick-changing nature of industry.'"

36 of 48 comments (clear)

  1. Canada by HappySqurriel · · Score: 2, Informative

    Currently Canada is offering a competition for independant developers as well:

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM .20061108.wtelefilmm1107/BNStory/Technology/home

    1. Re:Canada by tb3 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I saw that in the paper this morning. I'd like to get in on it, but for the life of me, I can't come up with a game idea that has Canadian content. I don't think Donut Wars, Eh? would go over too well.

      --

      www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance

    2. Re:Canada by lilmouse · · Score: 1

      I saw an interesting article about subsidies for computer games in Canada:

      http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/70/15

      The article points out that the companies in Canada that are getting the money (currently) are ones like Ubisoft - very large and able to move large numbers of jobs around... Money for independent gamers would be nice. But as things are set up, it makes more sense in some ways to give $$$$$$$(CD) to giant companies instead of the little guys - who I think make better games!

      We'll see what happens in France, eh?

      --LWM

  2. The article does not mention a subsidy. by krell · · Score: 2, Informative

    I could find no reference to any subsidy (word "subsidize" in news item title) in the article. However, I did find a tax break. A tax break should never be confused with a subsidy ("Monetary assistance granted by a government....") since no money is given by the government ($0 of government money spent). A tax break merely lets someone keep more of what they already own.

    --
    Where were you when the voynix came?
    1. Re:The article does not mention a subsidy. by paladinwannabe2 · · Score: 2, Informative
      From Wikipedia
      In economics, a subsidy is generally a monetary grant given by a government to lower the price faced by producers or consumers of a good, generally because it is considered to be in the public interest. The term subsidy may also refer to assistance granted by others, such as individuals or non-government institutions, although this is more commonly described as charity. A subsidy normally exemplifies the opposite of a tax, but can also be given using a reduction of the tax burden. These kinds of subsidies are generally called tax expenditures or tax breaks.

      In some cultures, figuring out what a word means occurs before "correcting" someone's mistake. Slashdot has never been one of thsoe cultures.
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    2. Re:The article does not mention a subsidy. by MonkeyOfRage · · Score: 1

      Does that mean when taxes are cut for the evil rich that it doesn't cost the government anything?

      'Fraid so. Discussing the "cost" of a tax cut is just class rhetoric to foster resentment. In the first year after the U.S. tax cut, federal revenues increased $100 billion due to the economic activity resulting from letting people keep (and spend) their own money.

      And believe it or not, you can't give a tax cut to people who already don't pay any taxes. It boggles the mind, perhaps, but it's true.

  3. Strap on your armored beret ... by ConfusedSelfHating · · Score: 2, Funny

    while you wield a baguette with a chainsaw attachment. Let the streets of Paris run red with the blood of existentialist zombies. May every mission in your tactical shooter involve a retreat. And don't forget your purse.

  4. always hilarious by krell · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's always hilarious and quite sad at the same time, the idea that anything the government somehow manages not to plunder from you should be treated as gift from the government.

    --
    Where were you when the voynix came?
    1. Re:always hilarious by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 1
      But we're talking about corporations here so plunder is ok.


      I think. The money they use to pay taxes could not possibly be the same money we pay them for goods and services, could it?

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    2. Re:always hilarious by zoney_ie · · Score: 1

      I live in Ireland. Seems like a rather good idea not to plunder corporations, but rather have low taxes for them, and offer various benefits for setting up.

      However, in real terms, our income taxes aren't that high either (tax free up to a certain allowance, then 21%, and if you're well paid, the top amount of your income gets 40% tax or so... but you can claim back for all kinds of things, like paying rent, or a mortgage, or having paid tax on other things, or who knows what! An average worker might effectively pay about 7-10% tax).

      Where a lot of money comes in here is VAT (tax on buying; 21%), motor (21% VAT on buying a car, whopping huge "vehicle registration tax", motor tax, excise duty on fuel), and drink (we drink lots and there is huge excise). This is reasonably good (cause you have all the money from happy companies and high pay with low real income tax) but it doesn't work so well for those who are poor (they don't pay income tax, but can't as easily afford to pay 21% tax on purchases or afford to drive, and like anyone else in Ireland they drink lots). We have a problem with nearly full employment that there are people on more than minimum wage (not much under $10 an hour) who are "poor" in real terms (cause of the high cost of living here from indirect taxation, particularly on motoring). However, you can live like a king if you drink little, don't drive a car, don't live in Dublin, and aren't buying a house. And to be fair, none are must haves. Even with poor public transport you can afford to get a poorer job (outside Dublin), pay the costs of buses, trains and taxis, etc. And you can save money to make getting a house easier when you move up in pay/career (and when the housing market/bubble bursts).

      Perhaps the US tax system would be fine too if you didn't spend half the budget on "Defence" and spent more on healthcare, jobs, etc.

      --
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    3. Re:always hilarious by krell · · Score: 1

      "Perhaps the US tax system would be fine too if you didn't spend half the budget on "Defense" and spent more on healthcare, jobs, etc."

      OK. Let's say we reduce defense spending from 50% of the budget to 19%. Would that solve it? Oh wait, it's already that low: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_Unit ed_States"

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    4. Re:always hilarious by zoney_ie · · Score: 1

      My mistake. Evidently I saw the 50% figure somewhere else, but it was referring to the "discretionary funding" (i.e. money that is free for the govt. to choose to allocate as they decide). It's still obscene, and how it can be condoned and continued by Christians is beyond me (speaking as a Christian).

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    5. Re:always hilarious by krell · · Score: 1

      "Then they should regard living in civilization as a gift since they have a reduced bill for its upkeep."

      Nice substitution of "paying for its upkeep" for what the money really goes for: to enrich and empower the rulers. You know, the version of the golden rule that is "Those that make the rules get the gold". Of course, the rulers always say they are robbing everyone in order to "help society". Your "upkeep civilization" wording shows that that you have bought into it.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
  5. Government subsidies by TheBogie · · Score: 1
    The government subsidies given to Airbus to keep it afloat have worked wonders.

    http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/07/news/companies/fed ex_order.reut/index.htm

  6. Tax breaks as a form of censorship? by paladinwannabe2 · · Score: 1
    But not all video games would receive support. Funds would go only to those that have creative input from France and are deemed to have artistic merit.

    "Video game characters will not be required to wear a beret and carry a liter of wine under their arm," Mr. Donnedieu de Vabres said. "But we do need to protect what is different in video games produced by each nation."

    So there will be a government commitee deciding which games get nifty tax breaks and which don't. I am curious if the same is true for movies as well- is there a comittee in France that decides whether a movie is a cultural film or not? Which books are 'art' or not?

    This would result in more games focused on being 'artsy' -whatever that means- and less focused on being appealing to people who actually play the games.
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    1. Re:Tax breaks as a form of censorship? by Amalas · · Score: 1
      I am curious if the same is true for movies as well- is there a comittee in France that decides whether a movie is a cultural film or not?
      In the US, there is the National Film Registry that already does this. Has this lead to more movies focused on being 'artsy'? Not really.
      --
      I'm not bitter, I'm just unsweetened.
    2. Re:Tax breaks as a form of censorship? by paladinwannabe2 · · Score: 1

      But this does not give tax breaks, so your point is moot. Empty titles (especially ones 10 years after the movie has been made) do next to nothing to promote certain films. Money does.

      --
      You are reading a copy of my copyrighted post.
    3. Re:Tax breaks as a form of censorship? by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 1

      I've always assumed video game makers in France were receiving some kind of special treatment. If you actually look at French labor law, there's no way you could produce e.g. Splinter Cell* (developed in France) if you seriously kept every developer from being in the office more than 35 hours/week, having to keep incompetent employees on for two years, etc. So I figure they've got some loophole.

      *Did anyone catch how in the original Splinter Cell, your boss urges you to collect more evidence because "If we're going to go to war over this, the evidence needs to be SOLID" ? Yes, France, we get it.

      --
      Apology to Ubuntu forum.
    4. Re:Tax breaks as a form of censorship? by denidoom · · Score: 1

      That's like product placement, where the governmental cultural accoutrements are the products... ugh. I like the idea of artsy games, though.

      --
      Lane Myer: I have great fear of tools. I once made a birdhouse in woodshop and the fair housing committee condemned it.
    5. Re:Tax breaks as a form of censorship? by Justus · · Score: 1
      Splinter Cell* (developed in France)

      Actually, according to the Wikipedia article (far from exhaustive, I know, but with the recent release of Splinter Cell 4 I'm not about to start sifting through Google for it), the original Splinter Cell was developed by Ubisoft Montreal. French Canada, yes, but not France.

      *Did anyone catch how in the original Splinter Cell, your boss urges you to collect more evidence because "If we're going to go to war over this, the evidence needs to be SOLID" ? Yes, France, we get it.

      On this note, although the original Splinter Cell was released in Nov. 2002, right as the United States was gearing up for the Iraq war, I don't think they really meant this as a subtle dig at U.S. foreign policy. My memory of the media/public response at the time is rather spotty, but I don't feel that the U.S.'s decision to invade Iraq was really questioned until a reasonable amount of time after it had occurred. Since the authorization for the use of military force in Iraq wasn't signed into law until Oct. 16, 2002, I think it's safe to assume that it wasn't portrayed too negatively at the time. Additionally, I highly doubt that Ubisoft was going through a game that was due to be released in a month and adding anti-war/anti-U.S. propaganda to it.

      --
      Schlock Mercenary
    6. Re:Tax breaks as a form of censorship? by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1
      My memory of the media/public response at the time is rather spotty, but I don't feel that the U.S.'s decision to invade Iraq was really questioned until a reasonable amount of time after it had occurred.

      The U.S.'s decision to invade Iraq was critised from the day it was made, sometime around 20jan2001.
      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
  7. Count me in. by krell · · Score: 1

    "while you wield a baguette with a chainsaw attachment. Let the streets of Paris run red with the blood of existentialist zombies. May every mission in your tactical shooter involve a retreat. And don't forget your purse"

    If that's the new "Frogger", let me know where to sign up for beta.

    --
    Where were you when the voynix came?
  8. Quake V: The Nutty Professor by rjamestaylor · · Score: 1

    Confluence of First Person Shooters, RPG, and Jerry Lewis. Just.... great.

    --
    -- @rjamestaylor on Ello
  9. Ubisoft? by Thansal · · Score: 1

    So does this meen that ubisoft will be making even MORE games for the Wii? we already have around 10 launch titles from them, don't we?

    either way, it is sorta interesting, is this taxbreak also avaliable to things like movie studios and tv?

    --
    Do Or Do Not, There Is No Spoon, There Is Only Zuul. Everything in the above post is probably opinion.
  10. The favored platform... by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 4, Funny

    ..will be the Nintendo Oui.

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    Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
  11. There are times not to trust Wikipedia by krell · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "....but can also be given using a reduction of the tax burden..."

    The inapplicably of the word "given" (when there is nothing given at all) shows that to be yet another poorly worded Wikipedia entry. After all, if a mugger takes only your wallet and nothing else he is not giving you your shoes and watch by the mere action of not taking them from you. Thanks for pointing out a Wikipedia mistake.

    --
    Where were you when the voynix came?
    1. Re:There are times not to trust Wikipedia by MBraynard · · Score: 1

      Ah - but since this is Wikipedia.... MISTAKE CORRECTED!

    2. Re:There are times not to trust Wikipedia by krell · · Score: 1

      "Welcome to society, please share the upkeep costs with your fellow citizens."

      1) When you are robbed, it is not "sharing"

      2) We are already "sharing" quite a lot in this fashion.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    3. Re:There are times not to trust Wikipedia by KiahZero · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, if you have a contractual obligation to pay someone $100, and that person later decides to forgive your debt after you've only paid $60, it would be accurate to say that you've been given $40 - the result would be the same if they took the $100 you owed and gave you a gift of $40.

      Your mistake is in analogizing between the government (whom you have a legal and moral obligation to support) and a mugger, with whom you have no such relation.

      --
      I'm a lawyer, but not yours. I wouldn't represent someone who thinks taking legal advice from Slashdot is a good idea.
  12. not yet. by krell · · Score: 1

    "Ah - but since this is Wikipedia.... MISTAKE CORRECTED!"

    Not yet. The header on the article still indicates the problem with it: "Some information in this article or section has not been verified and may not be reliable. Please check for any inaccuracies, and modify and cite sources as needed."

    --
    Where were you when the voynix came?
  13. Not again... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    Another government bailout for Infogrames France (owner of Atari)?! I know making bad video games is an art in itself, but its nothing that any government should be supporting.

  14. Re:Warning: Government tricks by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    Ewe Boll is appointed video game film czar!

  15. Encyclopedia Britannica agrees. by paladinwannabe2 · · Score: 1

    Subsidies mentioned there also mention 'tax concessions' as a form of subsidy. Besides, economically there is minimal difference between me sending you a check for $1000 (tax free) and reducing the taxes you owe me by $1000.

    --
    You are reading a copy of my copyrighted post.
  16. Only one thing to say... by snuf23 · · Score: 2

    Suck it, Ebert.

    --
    Sometimes my arms bend back.
  17. Not publishers--the studios themselves! by cold+wolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It seems the current game industry business model is starting to break down. All they talk about are how publishers are struggling. Why give publishers a tax break when you can get all the really artistic games a push directly by subsidizing studios themselves? Fuck the publishers altogether--the vast majority of people who have a computer have the internet. The internet is the new publisher.

    Subsidizing publishers is encouraging their mindless hunt for mass appeal--which has nothing to do with creativity.

  18. That sounds familiar by MonkeyOfRage · · Score: 1

    You play a guy named Gordy who goes dog sledding through lumber camps and picks up back bacon for health powerups? I think it's been done... or was I just really drunk.