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NASA Proposes Manned Asteroid Mission
eldavojohn writes "NASA has proposed a manned asteroid mission to a near earth object. They mention this being viewed as a "gap-filler" to keep the public's attention between a lunar exploration & manned mars mission. The article also cites these goals as in line with the Constellation Program. From the article, 'Furthermore, a human venture to a space rock may well accelerate precursor robotic surveys of asteroids, Schweickart observed. "Early unmanned visits to asteroids ... it's the same pattern as we did with the Moon and we're doing right now with Mars. It's all pretty logical," he told SPACE.com.'"
The experience we get from a mission to asteroids could serve us well in the event that one heads towards earth. I mean, Bruce Willis isn't getting any younger.
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...that when the special edition of Armageddon is released, it'll be marked as "based on a true story?"
"You will pay for your lack of vision..." - Emperor Palpatine to Ray Charles
If the plan is to "land" on an asteroid and plant a flag (or whatever), it's probably a good idea to actually know ahead of time that there's solid ground there. If I recall correctly, the most recent asteroid fly-bys suggested that it was mostly loose gravel held together by microgravity. Imagine "landing" and finding yourself sinking into a bunch of rocks that start flying about.
Like NASA can do better than Armageddeon?
Maybe if they get Steve Buscemi to pilot the mission they have a chance.
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Can we put some small ion engines on the asteroid? Because if we do that and can feed the engines with asteroid dust, we can move it into Earth orbit within my lifetime. And that would just be too cool.
...following the principles of Heisenburger's Uncertain Cat...
It's so great NASA has the right goal: entertaining the masses.
Fleur de Sel
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the obvious: Using an asteroid landing as a precusror to a mining mission.
If NASA's plans go forward, they're going to need a space infrastructure. Eventually, that will mean space-based manufacturing. For manufacturing, you need raw materials. Those raw materials are expensive to lift from Earth's gravity well. Ergo, the best solution is to mine them from much smaller gravity wells where the cost of transport is comparitively minimal.
The key issue that an mission to an asteroid would need to resolve is the actual composition and concentration of valuable ores. Scientists currently have a lot of educated guesses, but we won't know for sure until a geologist makes a proper survey.
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Deep Impact was a much better movie IMHO than Armageddon.
Users of The Internet Movie Database seem to barely agree with me.
What's the basis for NASA's planning, here?
Science, or entertaining the public to keep the space budget healthy?
What happens when the public start to wonder why exactly we're sending men to the Moon and Mars and asteriods, just to have them come back again? what exactly did we get for it, except the bill? saying "it's for science" or "it's advancing towards men in space" is getting *old*. We don't have an off-planet base, we're not getting one in the next ten or twenty years.
When you consider that reality, statements like "for science" and "men in space" are ring hollow and people basically go "well, I can't see why we're doing this" and then your public support goes away.
And no bad thing if it did. NASA has been an unmitigated disaster for space travel and exploration. It's almost entirely prevented enterprise and investment into the field and substitued expensive, slow, bureaucratic, political-football State-run snails-pace development.
What have we got to show for the last thirty, fourty years of NASA?
We got men on the moon and then...
What?
One exploration satellite every year or two? Skylab for a bit, then that came down and after thirty years, we FINALLY have the ISS...and it's in low Earth orbit. What's the point, exactly? it's a frickin' expensive way to get into space.
Where's the innovation?
State run companies *DO NOT INNOVATE*.
And by God, if there's a field which needs innovation to get off the ground, it's space travel.
We need solutions to fundamental problems. You don't get that from a committee.
The Moon is too far away and has too deep a gravity well to be really useful as a source of raw materials. An asteroid that we could break up and use to build really big spacecraft, satellites and space stations could kick start the commercial space business into high gear.
...following the principles of Heisenburger's Uncertain Cat...
You won't sink. The gravity's too weak, remember?
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
It would take more than a "little shove" - unless you don't mind smiting your enemies a couple of hundred years hence.
...following the principles of Heisenburger's Uncertain Cat...
For all of you slashdot readers who have plenty of time on your hands, here is an excellent book on why going to the asteroids should be one of, if not THE, priorities of the manned space program. Although I haven't read it since I was young(er) I still remember it fondly as being one of my great inspirations for space travel. The ease of getting there (it is energetically easier to get to a Near Earth Orbit asteroid than going to the moon!), the resources available there (iron asteroids = lots of metals, icy asteroids/comets = water and volatiles, carbonaceous = building materials) and the potential for discovery/experience in deep space travel are covered in this fascinating book. It made a compelling case, without resort to more speculative ideas such as orbital habitats a la L-5, for why this is our logical next step after the moon.
2 87818
Of course the book was written before Luiz Alvarez proposed that asteroids likely were responsible for mass extinctions. However since that justification for travelling to the asteroids has been discussed endlessly I don't think the omission hurts this book.
If you can find this book (I'm sure it's been out of print for decades) and have the time to read it, please do, It will help restore the feeling of endless possibilities that some of us had about space travel when we were young.
"Islands in Space: The Challenge of the Planetoids" Donald Cox and Dandridge Cole
By the way, if you've read this far, you might want to check out my previous musings on asteroids - http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=171538&cid=14
NASA talks about this and that, shuffles around some papers, maybe changes the names of certain desk jobs, and nothing concrete comes out of it. This has been going on for, oh, a decade now (at least).
Whether we should blame NASA, Congress or the White House for this current situation is moot. Anything NASA says about future manned missions that involve something other than putting people into low-earh orbit in an aging space shuttle is a pipe dream, isn't particularly noteworthy and I fail to see why it belongs on the front page here.
I for one can think of many, many celebrities I'd like to fire at asteroids and then forget about. Finally, a use for Tyra Banks!
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Capturing an asteroid for resources would be idiotic. Placing a spacecraft hull in orbit is simple. Tie together a few TransHab modules, and there you go. It is a one time cost. The real problem is consumables: Water, oxygen, propellant. You won't find usable quantities of these things on an asteroid.
No, what you want to do is capture a comet. Thousands, if not millions of tonnes of water, which can be cracked for oxygen. Also, plenty of other ices which can be used as propellant. Launch a giant plastic bag into an intercept orbit, seal the comet inside. As the sun heats the bag/comet, vent the gas to put the comet into a more usable orbit, and voila, a mountain sized chunk of water to live off of.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Doing manned missions for PR purposes seems pretty silly.
Not doing PR will guarantee that the entire Space Program ends up being nothing but a bunch of expensive lawn ornaments and a theme park in Florida.
It's only because of the public interest in space, and their willingless to spend a shitload of money on it, that there is the opportunity to conduct scientific research up there at all. Private industry isn't going to pay for it; at least not on anything like the scale that we've come to enjoy today.
The primary goal of the space program should be to ensure its own future existence, and that means keeping the public interested. If that means going and sending some guy up to stand on an asteroid for a photo op next to a flag, so be it. It's that sort of thing which will keep the money flowing.
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For 40 years, NASA has been sending astronauts into low Earth orbit and calling it "spaceflight". Dinking around in LEO is not space travel.
OK, there was the Apollo program. That begins to count. But the Apollo astronauts were still, at all times, within the Earth's gravity well (the moon is gravitationally bound to the Earth).
But now ...
"That kind of early demonstration mission might last no more than 60 or 90 days," Durda said, "and take the crew no farther than a few lunar distances away from Earth."
Finally. A human being is going to travel in space. Not very far. But it's a start, after decades of pitiful pretence.
It is quite obvious that this is the result from someone sending us a message from the future telling us to start this program. It only makes sense that an asteroid in our future will be heading towards us. Next we'll have to gather up the best men on the planet to take this bitch down. By starting this program now, we're saving ourselves for the future. It's all pretty logical.
Democracy is sort of a bitch that way. If you can't make your case for funding to the masses, they're going to ignore you; once that happens, the politicians will smell money, and move in for the kill.
Politics is circus. And thus, anything that derives its funding from the political process, or has to otherwise interact with it, needs to get with the program.
Unless you have some brilliant ideas on how to make NASA totally self-funding, it's the "PR stunt" missions that are going to effectively pay for all the boring research ones, that Mr. and Mrs. America don't care about.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Astroids are definitly a much better endeavor than making a 3d image of the sun. The possibility for mining resources that are rare on earth or needed for space-based manufacuring are high. Who knows maybe we will be able to expand the known elements and open up a whole new scope of metallurgy.
I for one am willing to pay taxes for experiments with potential this has.
The irrational feelings of the masses affect science all the time. Look at stem-cell research; that's a whole field that's basically turned into a proxy battleground for anti-abortion groups. I think a lot of researchers there tried to just stay out of the mud-slinging, but in doing so they basically got run over: it wasn't until after the religious groups got their laws passed that any of the research organizations started doing their own PR. If they had been doing good PR work from the beginning, it might have never become a national issue.
Science doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's not something that can just happen on some high academic plane, removed from the ugly realities of the political process. If you want money, you need to make average people -- people, in many cases, with a high school education and a crappy one at that -- understand or at least feel connected to what you're doing. And you need to do it constantly: not just when you've got a problem and need public support. You need to bring the public along from Day 1. I hope that these asteroid missions are NASA finally waking up and realizing that you can't ignore the public on one hand, and expect them to pay for your research on the other. It doesn't work that way.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
But in that case, why not just cut to the chase? If the space program depends for its success on being entertainment for the masses, then the obvious solution is to send Paris Hilton into space to do a reality show.
It sounds theoretically feasible, but technically a nightmare. If a meteor knocked a hole in your bag (pretty likely over time), you would suddenly have a second jet, and you didn't get to pick which way it's pointed, so it's effectively uncontrolled. It might hit the earth instead of orbiting. If it broke apart due to the warming, your bag is completely history.
Plus, when was the last time somebody wrapped something that big? It would probably take hundreds of thousands of pounds of plastic, plus some sort of machine that to lay it all down. And you'd need nozzles. If you want to control it, you can't just cut a hole and call it good. And you have to the center of mass precisely, which would change as material is jettisoned, or it tumbles.
Also, you're talking about a lot of momentum change here, from a low impulse thruster. Comets move fast through the inner solar system. It would take a lot of mass and a long time to swing it into a useful orbit.
Probably a better idea is to land a couple solar or nuclear powered mass drivers on the comet that would actively launch material in the opposite direction you wanted to accellerate the main mass. It's still a major leap beyond what we can technically and economically accomplish right now...except perhaps if we found ourselves absolutely needing to and we had enough time.