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China Jails Porn Site Leader For Life
eldavojohn writes "The AP has picked up the story of a man convicted of serving internet porn in China. They report that he has been jailed for life. Eight accomplices were given sentences ranging from a few months to almost a decade. Some might view internet pornography as morally wrong but I wouldn't think it to warrant a lifetime sentence." From the article: "Xinhua reported that police said it was difficult to know the exact amount of profits the Web site earned. Police found about 200,000 yuan ($25,000) in the bank accounts of the nine. When the site was closed in October last year, it contained more than 9 million pornographic images and articles, the police said."
From that website (dated December of 2005): I'm certainly not intimately familiar with these cases but I do hope that they are jailing the correct people and that these people deserve it. A life sentence is nothing to sneeze at, especially in China.
My work here is dung.
Obviously I don't condone such draconian measures, and I'm generally a free speech enthusiast.
But isn't it interesting how governments of two of the most important nations of the world have strict controls on pornography.
China, because they like censorship in general.
But India has always put tight controls on sexually-related material. I don't know if they have a decency/obscenity code that webmasters need to follow. But certainly there is next to no production of porn-related material (especially when compared to Japan and US).
We cannot call India "backwards" or "repressive" with regard to free speech or sexual expression. They just haven't warmed up to porn.
Perhaps pornography is simply a Western invention and a predilection that strikes people in Asia as bizzare. Then again, I have no doubt that people in these countries are freely downloading Western porn; they just aren't producing it themselves.
One has to ask whether tolerance of porn/erotica is less a measure of liberalism than social norms. On the other hand, I feel pretty sure that in Asia/India and Arab countries prostitutions is rampant.
So pick your poison: prostitution/AIDS or porn/stripping.
One might even make the argument that whereas porn has been infiltrated by lots of feminists/actresses-turned-directors, brothels have remained a bastion of male rule.
Maybe it boils down to the technological issues; once enough people are armed with videocameras and ftp accounts, mores will change. But until that time, people in China and India will go gaga over Paris Hilton and Western porn stars.
Robert Nagle, Idiotprogrammer, Houston
I find this part of the story submission rather peculiar.
What is morally wrong is to impose your own morality (like porn is bad) on others.
Regardless whether this imposition is by a government or by an institution.
As long as such a thing as the consumption and serving of porn is done between consenting adults there is morally absolutely nothing wrong.
(Yes I know some in Holland, Michigan differ with me but I'm from the Original Holland)
As long as a society, like here the Chinese, is of the opinion they can meddle in the private affairs of their people they are at best suspect.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
"Some might view internet pornography as morally wrong but I wouldn't think it to warrant a lifetime sentence."
In my supposedly free country, if I understand things correctly, and I have chatted with a lawyer about it, one can get 4 or 5 years of jail time for each non-genuine DVD or CD that you have in your posession. I don't think that is warranted either myself.
I don't even think the statutory damages are warranted myself.
all the best,
drew
http://www.ourmedia.org/node/262954
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It seems that China has always quickly doled out heavy punishment for what it deams crime hoping to get the "big" message across to "the people." It apparently works, as they do have a very low crime rate in comparison to say, the good ole USA.
Anyone seen my jagged little pill?
The most effective birth control is tied with richer 1st world countries, perhaps whitecollar jobs and education. Western European countries and Japan have generally low native birth rates, middle-class+ America probably is too to an extent though it's population keeps growing with immigrants (as it always has).
I don't know the dynamics, but probably it has to do with the cost of bring up kids as a middle/upper class family (it's more expensive to pay for college/toys/etcetera than what a low income family usually gives their kids), the fact that women are more likely to work a job, and other such factors.
So China really just has to become a 1st world country to reliably lower the birthrate. The other factors I have seen don't seem to count for much.
Do you have a response to his arguments or are ad hominen attacks the only response you can muster? Maybe you think it is funny. It is not. This is deadly serious stuff. A medicinal plant anyone can grow being made illegal by changing its name (the name of the plant is cannabis and had its common name been used at the time it first was outlawed the regular people would not have accepted it -- instead they were bamboozled by falsified press reports of a new insidious plant that foreigners of a different race were bringing to the country to destroy their children's lives). I do not touch the stuff because it is illegal. And yes you can get 10 year jail sentences. You can even get life sentences for having a small amount on your person (if you are black). But by far the vast majority of negative effects that can be attributed to this plant are directly causes by its being outlawed.
I fear the above poster is right. If this country continues to deny its people a Universal healthcare and throws its people in jail for growing medicinal plants themselves and ingesting same, there may come a time when violent revolution will be the only solution. The tazering of a racial minority student at UCLA very recently is but one of many steps in that direction. Eventually that which cannot be forgotten builds up. You want to support the violence that occurs under these laws, then you have no reason to not expect the eventual result from violence done to others. You can laugh it off. We try to laugh it off, too. There is only so many times you laugh off violence. At some point something gives. So stop supporting the violence. it is nauseating. And there is not enough weed to smoke to keep down the contents of our stomachs.
Here's a funny story on hypocrisy in that vein:
About 10 years ago, I lived in the PRC for a couple of months doing database work. I remember going one of those big Samusung stores--the kind that are like computer bazaars with tons of vendors--and there were cops who stood outside and searched everyone's bags as they left to make sure that they didn't have any porn.
Later on, I got pickpocketed at a bus stop. When I went to the police station to report the crime, there were a bunch of cops in a lounge there watching an American porno movie.
Guess that explains what happens to the porn that the cops "confiscate" outside of those computer stores in China...
It's not hypocrisy in Chinese culture. It's because there have always been two major forces in Chinese governments. First is very strong moral conservatism. Because this is part of Confucianism the people involved are usually very upstanding and are not corrupt and generally quite idealistic though very very conservative. Then there is massive corruption because of the autonomy usually given to provincial and then local rulers. China's a big place with lots of people and the bureaucracy has always been too small to micromanage everything. Also because of its persecution by the First Emperor who was a Legalist Confucianism doesn't like legalism that much. The idea is to install good moral principles in the bureaucrats rather than have them follow strict laws. So local governors usually have a great deal of power. Also there is a saying in many parts of China "The world is big and Beijing is a long way away." On the flip side, the moral conservatives are *very* conservative and controlling micromanaging bastards(see pre-Deng Xiao Ping Communist Party for an example). The very things that allow corruption to flourish are *also* the things that allow people freedoms from central control. There's also the very important role that families and local area affiliations and clans (well not so much now) have to play. So in this situation you have a bunch of people in the central government who are not corrupt, idealistic and morally conservative trying to harshly enforce their brand of moral puritany. On the other hand you have the often much more free-wheeling provincial governors who don't care about what central government says. All of Chinese history has been a struggle to get a balance between the two extremes so that the micromanaging puritans can't control every aspect of people's lives and that corruption due to people not listening to central government doesn't get completely out of control. Both sides know this and there is a certain armed truce with the provinces and local areas listening to some things that the central government says (especially if sufficient force is applied) or at least pretending to and the central government tries to concentrate on the battles it can fight. Also the prostitution is probably occuring in the Southern provinces, particularly Guangdong and those have always been especially independent of Beijing, so much so that Beijing gets pissed off. Strangely enough the Southern Provinces can also be some of the most fiercely loyal to China, more specifically Han Chinese. I just laugh when people expected that the fact that Guangdong is the most rapidly developing area of China is going to lead to actions to topple the Communists. Now, if the Communists were non-Han Chinese then well maybe yeah.
Oops, sorry, forgot to format it properly:
It's not hypocrisy in Chinese culture. It's because there have always been two major forces in Chinese governments. First is very strong moral conservatism. Because this is part of Confucianism the people involved are usually very upstanding and are not corrupt and generally quite idealistic though very very conservative. Then there is massive corruption because of the autonomy usually given to provincial and then local rulers. China's a big place with lots of people and the bureaucracy has always been too small to micromanage everything. Also because of its persecution by the First Emperor who was a Legalist Confucianism doesn't like legalism that much. The idea is to install good moral principles in the bureaucrats rather than have them follow strict laws. So local governors usually have a great deal of power. Also there is a saying in many parts of China "The world is big and Beijing is a long way away."
On the flip side, the moral conservatives are *very* conservative and controlling micromanaging bastards(see pre-Deng Xiao Ping Communist Party for an example). The very things that allow corruption to flourish are *also* the things that allow people freedoms from central control. There's also the very important role that families and local area affiliations and clans (well not so much now) have to play.
So in this situation you have a bunch of people in the central government who are not corrupt, idealistic and morally conservative trying to harshly enforce their brand of moral puritany. On the other hand you have the often much more free-wheeling provincial governors who don't care about what central government says. All of Chinese history has been a struggle to get a balance between the two extremes so that the micromanaging puritans can't control every aspect of people's lives and that corruption due to people not listening to central government doesn't get completely out of control. Both sides know this and there is a certain armed truce with the provinces and local areas listening to some things that the central government says (especially if sufficient force is applied) or at least pretending to and the central government tries to concentrate on the battles it can fight.
Also the prostitution is probably occuring in the Southern provinces, particularly Guangdong and those have always been especially independent of Beijing, so much so that Beijing gets pissed off. Strangely enough the Southern Provinces can also be some of the most fiercely loyal to China, more specifically Han Chinese. I just laugh when people expected that the fact that Guangdong is the most rapidly developing area of China is going to lead to actions to topple the Communists. Now, if the Communists were non-Han Chinese then well maybe yeah.
It's interesting you define this as hypocrisy, whereas the great nation of USA, who's biggest export is filth and pornography on an astronomical scale can also decry a "wardrobe malfunction" and get apoplectic about someone revealing a nipple in the middle of a football match. Time to get real, I think.
"I like to skate on the other side of the ice"