Slashdot Mirror
Critical Review of the Zune
ceallaigh writes "Andy Ihnatko of the Chicago Sun-Times has a critical review of the Zune. "Avoid," is my general message. The Zune is a square wheel, a product that's so absurd and so obviously immune to success that it evokes something akin to a sense of pity."
The problem is that the "good" things were probably things you just take for granted like play lists and good sound quality. I've had pieces of hardware that had so many bad points it was impossible even see adequate let alone good points. It's almost as if the bad points push the good points into the corner and start waving at you at that point even thinking about the device makes you froth at the mouth with anger.
I used to have a better sig but it broke.
This is daft. Is the DRM imposed by the client or the server Zune? What if a band wants to promote their music by, for example, setting up free downloads of selected tracks after a concert? Why should everything go through the Zune store? Also, is there any way to get a server other than another Zune to interface with the thing wirelessly?
I hope this product does become popular enough for many different hacked firmwares to be released. Seems like a decent hardware with shitty firmware, but that's correctable :) - that's what I call "product support"...
-b.
a positive review for the Zune, could make it as a story on slashdot?
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
I hate replying to myself, but I got cut off midthought.
My thought is that ms worked closly with the RIAA on this player, put decent amount of force behind it, looking to see it flop. Once it flops the next version they can tell the RIAA to kindly piss off because their ideas don't work. The next model might actauly be a good product (or the third release if they stay true to form.)
I used to have a cool sig, back when I cared
You know...I think the zune may indeed become a valuable toy to play with...once someone out there rips it apart software/os wise.....possibly puts linux on it...and makes it a general use player. I'd think the built-in wireless on this would make that worthwhile...
I'll wait till this thing is thoroughly 'hacked'......and someone take what may be decent hardware (just guessing here), and makes it useful with non MS and non-RIAA backed 'prisonware'......once opensource works on this, it may be worth getting.
Till then...I'll wait and get one on eBay for a good price....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I don't agree that it is inexcusable. This is about normal for Microsoft and it is expected. Microsoft has a lot to loose on two edges of the sword.
The first edge is about the loss to the music industry. If they can't satisfy the demands of those guys and if they violate the music industry directives (for a lack of better words) in any way they could suffer the long term. If they implement a feature that allows Zune users the ability to too freely break the rules then the end result would be lawsuits. So, Microsoft joined the ranks of the DRM nightmare inclined--and the Zune users are going to pay.
On the second edge of the sword Microsoft has to take over the DRM industry or they will fail. Apple has that now. What I mean by the DRM industry is that they must take control of the technology that implements DRM in every household and every pocketbook. If they don't they loose to Apple and they will never gain their monopoly status in Content Rights Management (CRM).
Bill Gates said that computers are no longer primarily used to create content, instead they are used to consume it. He knows this is the bandwagon to get up on and to ride it out. He wants total control of all content on computers and that means CRM (the software used to create it) (DRM, et al).
DRM and CRM are the OS of protected data. Whomever controls that controls content and thus controls a lot of other markets. They can then begin to dictate things just as Apple was successfully able to dictate the price of music to the music industry. Steve Jobs was the greedy one in the pricing when that was being debated, IMHO. It is hard to see it until you recognize that he controls the DRM for 70% of the market.
Bottom line, unless Microsoft succumbs to the music industry to start they can't get industry players on board. Unless they take over the DRM and CRM control they'll never get the music industry (or any other industry producing protected content) to come on board. Considering their blatant failure to maintain backwards compatibility one can only guess they have fallen on their own sword on this one.
Hopefully, some realize that we can't let Microsoft get control of the DRM and become a monopoly in CRM like they did the OS. If they do then we'll have high and inflexible prices on our content as well.
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
Before you head bursts from an acute case of fanboy-ism, please note that sound quality-wise Creative devices have been repeatedly rated above Apple's. Why? Because Apple currently has no incentive to make things radically better (unlike its underdog competitors). Most of iPods have had incremental if not cosmetic facelifts in the recent revisions. As far as the iRiver is concerned, while its current offering is lacking, iRiver H1xx series are to this day reigning champion of features and sound quality (please notice I did not mention form factor/sex appeal/whatever). Don't believe me? Most pro-audio colleagues as well as sound connoiseurs to this day seek to buy this discontinued model due to its high quality sound output and more importantly CD-quality recording feature which includes also optical I/O. On top of that it also has a user-replaceable battery and hard drive so that you are not stuck in the "do-it-the-way-Steve/Bill-wants-you-to" wonderland.
So, yes, an objective comparison of features (not "everyone's-got-one-so-I-ought-to-have-one-too" commmon denominator approach often used when reviewing OSs by comparing it to Windows, or as is the case here comparing an mp3 player solely to an iPod).
At least I read (and cringed some) at the term as found in Cory Doctorow's Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom" published in January 2003. Despite this I tend like his writing and ideas.
This usage may appear earlier but I do not know where.
I agree with you BWJones, that forcing users to use a particular bit of software with an mp3 player is the kiss of death. In fact, this type of limitation is a big black mark for any type of hardware as far as I'm concerned. Yesterday, I bought a SanDisk Cruzer 2gig flash drive. When I plugged it in, I found that it had some dopey software that ran upon insertion and a whole bunch of nonsense that curiously resembled spyware. And no simple way to just format the whole thing and use it as I wish. (I was able to figure it out, but I had to waste almost as much time as it took me to open the horrific plastic display shield the product came in. (This is a completely different issue, but the Cruzer had about the worst packaging I've ever had to deal with. I finally had to use a pair of poultry shears and an exacto-knife to open the package).
The one "feature" of the Zune that a lot of the reviewers don't seem to mention is the way it integrates DRM in the most limiting way. Here's a news flash to mp3 player manufacturers: Let me use the thing as mass storage and don't try to play rights-police with me. Leave that problem to the entertainment business and just sell me hardware that works. I want to be able to drag files on and off my player the same way I do with a hard drive.
That's some free advice, by the way, and everyone I know who uses a portable media player feels the same way. Ignore it at your own risk.
You are welcome on my lawn.
If you change the following sentence from:
The Zune is a square wheel, a product that's so absurd and so obviously immune to success that it evokes something akin to a sense of pity.
to:
Windows 3.x is a square wheel, a product that's so absurd and so obviously immune to success that it evokes something akin to a sense of pity.
You'll realize that this is just a typical Microsoft "throw something out there" first effort. It was obviously never intended to be an iPod killer, or even to be successful at any particular level. However, you can bet your MP3 player (whatever it is) that there are a bunch of someones at Microsoft reading every public comment about the Zune that they can get their eyeballs on. It's just as important to know what customers think is stupid or otherwise dislike as it is to know what they do like (they need only look at the iPod for that information.) That's Marketing 101, and if nothing else Microsoft does know how to market.
Windows 1.x, 2.x and 3.x truly sucked at pretty much every level but at least 3.1 made a lot of money. Windows 95, for all it's many flaws made even more money, and 98+ made even more money. Don't expect anything positive for the first few years after Microsoft enters a particular market. Historically, they usually fail economically (if not technologically) at anything but operating systems and office suites anyway, but given time they could do well in the portable media player market.
Either way, Apple had best not rest on its laurels for too long. Microsoft isn't the only competitor out there that wants a piece of the iPod pie.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
About the sound quality -
this is pretty much a non-issue nowadays. I'm a recording engineer with nearly 20 years of experience behind me and have lived and worked through the whole digital audio transition in tedious detail. At the end of the eighties most 16-bit DACs sounded like garbage - even on machines worth (at the time) several thousand dollars. Domestic CD player DACs were, to my ears, horrific at this time with a few exceptions but during the passing years things improved quite quickly. For instance, around 92-95, cheapish semi-pro devices started sounding pretty good (like portable DATs and stereo samplers) and quite quickly this became the case in domestic machines too. I became used to this fact (digital audio now sounds good!) so that when I bought a 3rd gen iPod about 3 years ago I didn't even bother check what the quality was like - I knew it was going to be good because of the general advance in chipsets available to the designers. The only thing I'd worry about is interference from electronics onto the analogue amps producing artefacts that are very quiet but annoying like hearing the HD controller work or things like that. One of the reasons I love the pod is that I've never heard that at all. So I think the review reflects this mindset - digital audio is basically good now with few exceptions.
(Having said all this, my new Samsung phone with built-in MP3 player sounds like crap but this is I suspect because of custom chips being designed to fit a tiny form factor and too much emphasis on features rather than quality).
spoonerize "magic trackpad"
I saw my first Zune a couple of days ago. It was an unattractive brown, clunky looking, and I didn't even want to bother turning it on. This is something that looks more like a Heathkit build-it-yourself than a polished commercial product. But that's almost an insult to Heathkits (okay, they weren't always pretty, but you took pride in the finished product).
I disagree.
.files containing attributes, I have to go to the terminal and pull a find /Volumes/iRiver -name ".*" -print -delete just to remove ugly .files everywhere.
I own both an iRiver iHP-120 and an Apple iPod.
The iHP, I have to manage all my files manually. I drag over the folders into the directory I want and bingo, it's done. However, that takes time and effort. If I rip new music on to my computer, (which I do often, I'm a musician) I have to figure out what folders are already on there and which aren't. Plus because I'm on a mac, and OS X generates all sorts of hidden
With my iPod, all my new music I rip in iTunes is placed neatly in my music library that I don't have to look at. All I do is plug in my iPod to charge, and *poof* all my new music is updated onto the device! I don't have to take time to dick around with folders, figuring out which songs I've added since my last manual update. As a boost, all the artwork is on there too, and I'm a meticulous tagger, so everything has art.
There are some nice benefits to the iRiver, of course, such as OGG support and a built in recorder, but over all, the iPod + iTunes experience has it beat, hands down.
Shouldn't You expect more from your DJ?
I'm a bigtime Microsoft fan. Yes, there are some out there, and I am one of them. (Xbox, 2 Xbox 360's, 3 XP machines, mice, etc. etc. etc.)
I *wanted* to buy a Zune, I really did. I wanted it to integrate in with everything else I own/run.
I was hot to do it until I found out that it didn't integrate in with Windows Media Player....WTF? I have years of files integrated into that player. Microsoft has been pushing it forever, and I went with it. I do like WMP- I think it's a pretty nice piece of software. In fact the only reason I never bought an iPod is because it won't integrate with WMP.
So when Microsoft came out with a player that didn't integrate with its core piece of media software, I thought that was a travesty. But, I was still willing to drink their Kool-Aid...until I found out they don't support Audible.com files.
It's amazing that a DRM infested piece of equipment like this doesn't support DRM infested Audible.com files. It seems like a match made in heaven (for them...) but somehow this failed to happen.
So, no Windows Media Player support...no Audible.com support. I just couldn't bring myself to buy one.
So instead I bought a Creative Zen MicroPhoto. Which became a brick the instant I upgraded the firmware to support Audible.com. I returned that and bought an iRiver Clix.
The Clix is nice- good interface, works well. The Audible.com upgrade didn't go too well (I had to use my wife's computer, because mine wouldn't recognize it) but I eventually got it. But instead of a 30+ Gig powerhouse with video, I ended up with a 2GB flash player. (Does video, but only 15fps)
I would have bought a Toshiba Gigabeat, or one of the new Sansa players, but they don't support Audible.com, and I need that.
Okay, last little bit of my rant here...I do NOT mind paying for content, doesn't bother me one bit. I would RATHER use Audible.com than BitTorrent because I think that artists and writers deserve to be paid for their work. But over the last year I have resorted to downloading at least a dozen books using BitTorrent because Audible.com sucks ass. Not only is the DRM a piece of crap, but the quality of the audio on their files blows.
Should I have gone with the Gigabeat and just used BitTorrent (yay UTorrent!) to get my audiobooks? Possibly...because I don't think that Audible.com deserves any money because they suck. But overall I would rather be guilt-free. But the day that there is a reasonable alternative to the big players (Apple/Audible) I will jump on it immediately. Really, when will they realize that their DRM only frustrates legitimate customers, and those who want to steal are going to do it anyway?
No reason to lie.
As a follow up to your sound quality note, I wanted to state that I have tried to use several differnt PDAs as my all-in-one device. It makes perfect sense: They're powerful enough to operate as my calendar, inbox and mp3 player at work. However, with consumer level headsets (32 ohms or less) the noise coming out of the DACs on the two devices I used are horrible. (Palm TX and a Dell Axim X50V)
I would love to continue using one or the other; and I'm told I can "increase the resistance" by modifying a cord to my headphones - this will drop the noisy hiss, however will also decrease max volume.
Honestly, I'd rather just have a PDA with a nice DAC. (In addition, the Palm TX has the dreaded "screen whine" problem that Palm One will not fix..... they claim a 15khz buzz is not a problem. It is when you have tinnitus in one ear, man that buzz sets it off.)
Karnal
Well forget it. It seems to me that article is a little biased towards the ipod, but overall it seems to hit the nail on the head. I was hoping that the Zune would cripple the ipod then I could come here and laugh and get neg modded.. But that's probably not going to be the case. I haven't even seen a bloody commercial for the Zune. There's apparently no solid release date for Canada yet. Not that I'd buy one after that scathing review. MIND YOU, Microsoft could very well go the same way they went with the Xbox and bleed money till they get it right. It would be nice though if apple includes a native radio player in their next incarnation of the ipod, that could be at least one good thing the Zune would accomplish.
Yeah, me too. Actually bought a player that supported Ogg (even though it was not mentioned anywhere on their website nor in the manual! I knew about by reading some forums) but brought it back the next day.
What happened?
In the evening of the same day that I bought it a friend showed me her Video iPod... I was completely blown away, now THAT's how a music player should work! My brand new player just paled in comparison, even though it played all my Ogg files.
So now I'm waiting for the perfect combination iPod-friendliness + ogg support.
Apple is well regarded by musicians because of their Logic and Garage Band tools. Imagine if Apple offered (as part of the song creation workflow) an iTunes "upload space" to anyone for $X per year and Y% of sales. If $X per year was low enough for weekend bands to participate, they'd be promoting iTunes purchases at their gigs in bars and bookstores rather than hauling suitcases of burned CD's to each gig! If the Y% of sales was signigicantly under the 90% that most record labels take from bands, then even serious bands would consider Apple to be financially attractive.
As cool or frightening as this sounds though, Apple doesn't have this option because of their relationship with Apple Records. The agreements aren't fully public, but its believed that Apple Records still holds non-compete contracts with Apple (the computer company) in aspects of the music industry that overlap with what a music label does. Have you noticed that Apple avoids use of the Apple trademark in word form on their iPods in favor of the bitten fruit icon? That was an issue in one of the latest Apple vs Apple lawsuits.
Microsoft has this "label competitor" option so they just need to throw out enough money to create a Microsoft music marketplace. In that case, no matter what deals they may have made with the major labels to get there, they can usurp the market itself by offering the "Microsoft" branded music label. That would be pretty nasty for Microsoft to partner with the market's powerhouses, then turn around, undercut, and steal their former partners' markets.
Hmmm, perhaps Paul, Yoko, Dhani and Ringo should be offered positions on Apple's board of directors instead.
I used to occasionally pirate songs (prior to itunes) and would toss the actual artists a few dollars in snail mail directly, the responses I got from a lot of the small bands was simply amazing. T-Shirts, signed *real* photographs, cd's (lol), etc... and when I say a few dollars, I don't mean 20$ I mean 5$ or 10$. I got some interesting letters from bands too saying this is more money for a cd of theirs or a song or whatever than they would have seen selling over 100 through normal channels and that they greatly appreciated it. Shrug.
The RIAA really helps screw the artists, as do the labels, and sure, some pirates are screwing the artists too. Most however are young kids who can't afford to buy the music in the first place... so they're not screwing the artist they're making them more popular.
Listener who bought CD > Listener who wouldn't/couldn't buy CD > Someone who doesn't listen
Shadus
A good and valuable use of Wi-Fi would be to allow users to buy music from the iTunes Music Store using only the iPod. The process would go something like this:
* enable wireless purchasing on your iTMS account using their iPod's serial number to help avoid hackery. This is a one-off task, and should be a simple preference on the iTMS account.
* go about your normal day, see an ad on a banana for some band, decide to try one of their tracks
* find a hotspot
* select 'iTunes Music Store' from the iPod's main menu
* wait as it syncs
* scroll through the band names looking for the one you want
* select the band name, go into sub-menu of albums
* select the album, go into sub-menu of songs
* select the song and either add it to the trolley or purchase it straight away
All of the 'find the song' work is exactly how we use the iPod to find a song, the only difference being we're in the music store and not our own collection.
When the user next syncs to their Mac or PC, the newly purchased track is authorised on that computer and iTunes downloads it from the music store automatically (avoiding a copy from the iPod to the computer) or just copies it from the iPod.
Wireless needs a good use or it's just a pointless gimmick. Access to the online store would be a real feature.
The thing about the Zune not supporting podcasts reminds me of the newer versions of MSN Messenger. The program has a "Show what I'm listening to" feature. If you're to believe the Preferences box, it apparently only shows what you're playing in Windows Media Player. Obviously, a lot of kids these days are using iTunes and it has to support that too. I think in both instances, Microsoft tries to just deny Apple's success by removing any hard references to them. In the case of the podcast, Apple's very product name is present in the title, so by acknowledging this, Microsoft will also be acknowledging Apple's complete ownership of the digital music market. While I can understand their reasoning, I'd much sooner they gracefully admitted their inferiority (in the context of the battle for portable music players) and let me play my podcasts, than flat-out refuse to recognise their (and Apple's) contribution.
One year worth of WMA content at 128 Mbps would be 1 year in seconds (60 * 60 * 24 * 365) times 128, divided by 8, in megabytes. That's 481 terabytes. I humbly suggest that if your music library is 481 terabytes large, none of these solutions to managing it is satisfactory.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
Even the Xbox 360 is hyped out of control. It barely sold 7 million units in a year--it was actually outsold by the five year old PlayStation 2, which sold 11 million units in the same time period.
Microsoft is fooling itself; it's time for the company to get real and start competing, because its empire is declining. Remember that Apple was also making craploads of cash deep into the late Sculley Era, when it was obvious that the company was about to crash. Microsoft has shadowed Apple's brush with death, making the exact same set of moves exactly ten years after Apple.
10 Ways Microsoft can Salvage their iPod Killer
10 iPod vs Zune Myths
10 More Myths of Zune Why Microsoft Can't Compete With iTunes
Strike 3: Why Zune will Bomb this Winter
The Two Faced Monster Inside Zune