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Critical Review of the Zune

ceallaigh writes "Andy Ihnatko of the Chicago Sun-Times has a critical review of the Zune. "Avoid," is my general message. The Zune is a square wheel, a product that's so absurd and so obviously immune to success that it evokes something akin to a sense of pity."

15 of 616 comments (clear)

  1. Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Wireless. More space than a nomad. Awesome."

    1. Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? by bigman2003 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm a bigtime Microsoft fan. Yes, there are some out there, and I am one of them. (Xbox, 2 Xbox 360's, 3 XP machines, mice, etc. etc. etc.)

      I *wanted* to buy a Zune, I really did. I wanted it to integrate in with everything else I own/run.

      I was hot to do it until I found out that it didn't integrate in with Windows Media Player....WTF? I have years of files integrated into that player. Microsoft has been pushing it forever, and I went with it. I do like WMP- I think it's a pretty nice piece of software. In fact the only reason I never bought an iPod is because it won't integrate with WMP.

      So when Microsoft came out with a player that didn't integrate with its core piece of media software, I thought that was a travesty. But, I was still willing to drink their Kool-Aid...until I found out they don't support Audible.com files.

      It's amazing that a DRM infested piece of equipment like this doesn't support DRM infested Audible.com files. It seems like a match made in heaven (for them...) but somehow this failed to happen.

      So, no Windows Media Player support...no Audible.com support. I just couldn't bring myself to buy one.

      So instead I bought a Creative Zen MicroPhoto. Which became a brick the instant I upgraded the firmware to support Audible.com. I returned that and bought an iRiver Clix.

      The Clix is nice- good interface, works well. The Audible.com upgrade didn't go too well (I had to use my wife's computer, because mine wouldn't recognize it) but I eventually got it. But instead of a 30+ Gig powerhouse with video, I ended up with a 2GB flash player. (Does video, but only 15fps)

      I would have bought a Toshiba Gigabeat, or one of the new Sansa players, but they don't support Audible.com, and I need that.

      Okay, last little bit of my rant here...I do NOT mind paying for content, doesn't bother me one bit. I would RATHER use Audible.com than BitTorrent because I think that artists and writers deserve to be paid for their work. But over the last year I have resorted to downloading at least a dozen books using BitTorrent because Audible.com sucks ass. Not only is the DRM a piece of crap, but the quality of the audio on their files blows.

      Should I have gone with the Gigabeat and just used BitTorrent (yay UTorrent!) to get my audiobooks? Possibly...because I don't think that Audible.com deserves any money because they suck. But overall I would rather be guilt-free. But the day that there is a reasonable alternative to the big players (Apple/Audible) I will jump on it immediately. Really, when will they realize that their DRM only frustrates legitimate customers, and those who want to steal are going to do it anyway?

      --
      No reason to lie.
    2. Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? by Bertie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Your first mistake was nailing your flag to the DRM flag at all. Now you've got a significant amount of music that you don't want to abandon, and it's like a millstone round your neck, dictating to you which machines you can consider buying. And that's after a fairly short space of time. Imagine if you'd spent ten years building your whole record collection out of this shite. You'd be baying for blood.

      I just don't get why people buy downloaded music at all, especially not DRM'd stuff. For a marginally higher cost, a CD gives you your music in an uncompressed format and leaves it up to you how you want to encode it. And it's got pretty packaging too. Until music downloads are losslessly encoded, DRM-free, and allow me to send for the cover art at no additional charge, I'm not buying.

      So that'd be "never", then.

      Fuck 'em. Don't give them your money. Keep buying CDs until they come back with the online music stores we want, rather than the ones they see fit to give us.

    3. Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? by jhylkema · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As I said, I have years worth of WMA and WMV files.

      Not meant as a troll or a flamebait, but you're one stupid sonofabitch. Why did you get married to a proprietary (and inferior) format invented with the sole purpose of DRM and vendor lock-in? You could have just as easily gone with standard formats like MP3 and use whatever player/platform you wanted.

      I must say, friend, you really did drink the Kool-Aid. And I'm going to sit in the corner and laugh my ass off.

    4. Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? by Shads · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I used to occasionally pirate songs (prior to itunes) and would toss the actual artists a few dollars in snail mail directly, the responses I got from a lot of the small bands was simply amazing. T-Shirts, signed *real* photographs, cd's (lol), etc... and when I say a few dollars, I don't mean 20$ I mean 5$ or 10$. I got some interesting letters from bands too saying this is more money for a cd of theirs or a song or whatever than they would have seen selling over 100 through normal channels and that they greatly appreciated it. Shrug.

      The RIAA really helps screw the artists, as do the labels, and sure, some pirates are screwing the artists too. Most however are young kids who can't afford to buy the music in the first place... so they're not screwing the artist they're making them more popular.

      Listener who bought CD > Listener who wouldn't/couldn't buy CD > Someone who doesn't listen

      --
      Shadus
    5. Re:Did you see CmdrTaco's review of the Zune? by mhbtr · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, AAC is not locked in with Apple. It is part of the MP4 standard and the successor to MP3 (it is also known as MP4). All it has over MP3 (other than being higher quality at the same file size and support for more channels/bitrates/bitdepths) is that it ha mechanisms to allow for DRM. That said, AACs you encode yourself are DRM-less. Songs you buy from the ITS have Fairplay DRM (which is Apple's DRM). All none DRMd AACs will play in a Zune without modification (and several other players). While it is not open source (like .ogg), it is not any more closed source than .MP3 (how many of you out there know that media player makers have to play royalties to Thompson, etc. for the use of .MP3?) I honestly don't know why AAC has not caught on more - it is so much more "open" than WMA, an has MUCH more broad support than .ogg. -- .sigs are for suckers

  2. Some additional comments... by BWJones · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Never mind that Andy is usually an advocate for Apple's products, however, as he is often, Andy is right on and I agree with his sentiments. In addition to his comments, I got to spend a little time with a Zune and initially liked the large screen until I actually turned the device on. I found it to be clunky, awkward, irritating, non-intuitive, completely incompatible with previous Microsoft music standards, and has none of the features that make the iPod so completely useful (ability to hold various media and data, even allowing you to boot from Firewire iPods). And forcing users to rely on the Zune application to move data onto or off the device is infuriating (kind of like the Creative devices. Is it possible to "open" a Creative media player and put data onto it without having to use the Creative application?).

    I simply cannot believe that Microsoft *ever* asked itself how users might interface with such a device and it's obsequious pandering to the music industry in an effort to out-compete Apple in this space rather than putting the effort into making a better product to the iPod quite simply offends. Hey Microsoft, how much did you spend coming up with this marketing, because I am simply stunned at how bad this is. If Microsoft *really* was interested in making a better product and not acting as a pimp for the record industry, they would also not have relied on "Zune Points" to purchase music. As anybody who has ever taken Marketing101 knows, you should always facilitate the process of getting people to spend money on your products and anything that steps in-between or slows this process down had better have a damn good reason for existing. Why do I have to buy "Zune Points" to then make music purchases? It's just stupid.

    Oh, and Microsoft..... Just a suggestion: Very few end users want their products to "squirt" anything at them. That is just bad marketing.

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    1. Re:Some additional comments... by happyemoticon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think he's talking about ANY data whatsoever. A lot of people just use these HD-based MP3 players as jumbo thumb drives. I know an IT guy who keeps multiple OS images on his. I have lots of (non-ipod-based) movies on mine.

      Also, the fact that you can access the drive normally means you can go into a little folder called .iPod_Control (or something) and do fun things like export your songs and hack the iPod database. The songs aren't on a separate partition or anything, they're just named funny things like SFJI.mp3 and put into weird folders.

      The whole Zune thing seems weird and sad. I mean, I don't think Microsoft is inherently bad or evil, I just wish they would live up to their own hype. They imagine their OS and associated peripherals as a paradise island of connectivity and ease, and then they go and make Zune and slap a 1000 meter restraining order on it and put it on a raft in the Pacific. What's next, Microsoft, a next-generation PDA for young professionals on the go that is 100% incompatible with any Office document?

    2. Re:Some additional comments... by Buzz_Litebeer · · Score: 5, Informative

      Here is a good one, this is a CNN review of the Zune

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buKaqRG2SFA&mode=re lated&search=

      It turns into an ad for the new ipod shuffle. It is hilarity.

      --
      If you don't vote, you don't matter, so don't waste your time telling me your opinion
  3. Re:Subjective Review by Nf1nk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The thing is that in the $200+ price range most MP3 players sound pretty good. They hold a decent amount of music. The question becomes what other features do they have and why should I buy one that isn't the ipod. For the thing to be successful it has to be easier to use. If the reviewer had to manualy rig up a dll, it isn't easy to use. Since it came from MS you would expect it to work seamlessly with windows and the media player that windows comes with, it doesn't. It has wifi it should be able to link up with other wifi devices and move data around, it doesn't. The music share feature is so limited as to be useless. The Zune would be disapointing if some third party built it, but coming from ms it is inexcusable.

    The reason why The ipod is used instead of the iRiver or the creative is that the gold iPod is the standard by which music players are judged. By now most people have experianced an iPod, but wouldn't know an iRiver if it bit them.

    Perhaps this is a

    --
    I used to have a cool sig, back when I cared
  4. Cringely by Petronius.Scribe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Remember Robert X Cringely's dictum about Microsoft - the third product is always the real one. The first two are just to scope out the market.

  5. Re:Subjective Review by Thumper_SVX · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually, this review is in the Chicago Sun Times; it's targeted at the average Joe Blow consumer, not the technical people. As a result, the style makes a lot of sense. The style is conversational, to try to get people to read it. It's also short and not very in-depth. Yes, you're right it focuses on all the bad aspects of the player with no room for the good. Well, that's how people think and how people talk in social circumstances. More often than not, people WANT to hear about the bad from a new MP3 player rather than the good; it gives them a reasonable expectation of their own experiences with the device. I know that if I buy a consumer level device and have a bad experience with it, I want to tell my friends about the bad and the good takes a serious back seat to the bad experiences I had. That's so I can try to help my peers and friends avoid the same pain I went through.

    Honestly, if you can't even install the software without hitting support.microsoft.com then that's going to set a precedent among the average user. The sound quality and interface become secondary if you can't even get music onto the player without serious hassle. This reviewer just gave his opinion and his bad experiences with the software and hardware overshadowed everything else. In fact, it was some time before he could even get it to work! I agree with his point, on Christmas day the last thing I'd want to deal with is my 9 year old daughter bugging me constantly wondering why she can't use her new Zune. Of course, I don't think I'm going to spend that on her, but I see his point.

    And the comparison to Apple? Well, the average consumer knows Apple, knows iPods... and refers to every MP3 player as an iPod. I've seen them in Best Buy so the comparison is valid. Plus the comparison to the Toshiba? Well, I don't know if you've taken a close look, but the Zune *is* a Toshiba device. It's an evolutionary advance on a player that Toshiba already sells with a new button interface and wireless. So although it's a bit of a stretch, that's a valid comparison too.

    Yes, I've played with a Zune (though not the software I'll admit). I was underwhelmed. It seemed a little kludgy to me to get where I wanted in the interface (though I'll admit I am an iPod owner and therefore used to that interface), and the rubber coating reminded me of a rather disturbing green/brown sex toy. That's my personal opinion, and not to be taken as gospel, though!

  6. Re:Subjective Review by bgfay · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I was about to write a positive comment about the review and found this as the first comment. I disagree with the premise that a review has to have a good point or two listed in it. I found that the review had me thinking about all sorts of things other than just the basics of the Zune. I've read those a hundred times already, starting long before the thing saw the light of day. This review was focused not on the Zune device but on the Zune environment and in that regard it got to all the points it needed to make.

    Do I think that the review was a shill for the iPod? No. Instead, the author promoted the way of thinking used by the iPod designers and the other successful makers of digital players. The point wasn't to tell you all about how to play songs on the Zune or any of that stuff, it was to say that the method of design, the planning of the product, and the theory behind all of this is deeply flawed.

    I see in my morning newspaper, sales for the Zune. I have yet to hear one of my friends thinking about buying one. It's not because they are all addicted to the iPod, several have other types of players. But not one of them is looking for a player that gives them less control over their music. Mostly we talk about how we wish that we could easily move music between players, use wireless devices, receive radio on the iPod without an add-on, and the like. In short, we talk about ways it could be better. It seems to me and to this reviewer that Microsoft worked diligently to find ways to make the player less convenient and more locked up.

    I'll say no thanks to that design model and thank you to the reviewer for succinctly getting at an idea that I had thought of but not been able to articulate.

    --
    Yeah, I'm as old as my UID would suggest.
  7. Re:Why bother to comment on a first effort by AddressException · · Score: 5, Informative

    Your comments about Windows are spot-on, but this time it's different.
    The market for portable music players is not the same as the preloaded OEM software "market", nor are they entering a vacuum.

    This time MS needs to make a good product that will stand on its own merits, or they'll bleed red ink until the shareholders tell 'em to quit.

  8. THE REAL PROBLEM by BWhaler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It amazes me that every review of the Zune has completely missed the point:

    In today's day and age, with always-on devices with mandatory updates, DRM, and proprietary file formats, who you buy from and trust with your memories, pictures of family and friends, music collections, videos, pictures, letters, etc., is a very, very important decision.

    Will you be able to look at the digital pictures of your child 30 years from now? Yes, we have entered that age.

    The fundamental problem with the Zune is Microsoft's lack of integrity. Not the Zune's design. Not the Zune's user interface, or anything else. The problem is the lack of character of the company behind the product.

    The Zune showed that Microsoft is more than willing to leave good, paying customers who bought 'Plays for Sure' music high-and-dry with a bleak future. And the killer is there is no practical reason for this other than to be sure they copy Apple identically and make people pay twice for the same music.

    What's worse, what happens when the whole Zune thing (inevitably) fails? Then what? Customers should expect, based on current behavior, that MS will change the format again and make you re-buy your music. How could a logical, sane person assume otherwise?

    (I know a guy, who despite my advice, bought about 2 grand of Plays for Sure music because "MIcrosoft is going to be around forever and they support their stuff." Needless to say, when he learned his music collection didn't work with his new Zune, he was at the Apple store a day later dropping 6 grand on a MBP, 30" display, nano and 5G iPod and tons of iPod accessories. Yes, one guy voting with his wallet--a fat one at that--but this guy is another data point on the tsunami that is building of CIO's, consumers, SMB customers, etc., who are sick of MS' lack of business ethics and their silly, silly games.)

    That, for me, is the kiss of death for the Zune. And it should be for all people. For it demonstrated all the lipstick Steve "We need to act like Industry Leaders" Balmer is putting on the Microsoft pig hasn't changed it's DNA. Microsoft is, and always will be, a monopolist protecting its Windows and Office franchise. At any and all costs.



    (Full disclosure: Never used Linux in my life. Nor Open Office. Use MS products daily. Don't "hate" Microsoft.
    But I can tell a person/company lacking morals and character when I see one. And I know a doomed product when I see one.)