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Has Productivity Peaked?

Putney Barnes writes "A columnist on silicon.com is arguing that computing can no longer offer the kind of tenfold per decade productivity increases that have been the norm up to now as the limits of human capacity have been reached. From the article: 'Any amount of basic machine upgrading, and it continues apace, won't make a jot of difference, as I am now the fundamental slowdown agent. I just can't work any faster'. Peter Cochrane, the ex-CTO of BT, argues that "machine intelligence" is the answer to this unwelcome stasis. "What we need is a cognitive approach with search material retreated and presented in some context relative to our current end-objectives at the time." Perhaps he should consider a nice cup of tea and a biccie instead?"

24 of 291 comments (clear)

  1. Cough by caluml · · Score: 4, Interesting
    1. Re:Cough by Shaper_pmp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Indeed. I don't mean to trivilaise what may become a serious problem as society gets ever-more-complex at an ever-increasing rate, but this article basically boils down to:

      1. Technology has now reached the point where it's increasing faster than I can keep up.
      2. I now need technology to make up for deficiencies in my intellectual processes, as well as my work processes.

      Happily, many kids today don't seem to have nearly as much problem as their parents/grandparents do with futureshock/infomation overload - having been raised in an age of rich media, near-ubiquitous networking and information-overload as a daily part of their lives, kids these days seem perfectly happy to keep up.

      I don't see this as a huge problem for society, so much as for the older segment of it.

      Of course, as development accelerates the age before which one can stay relevant is likely to drop, with interesting consequences - either we develop some kind of mental process-prosthesis to enable adults to continue interacting usefully with society, or we learn to live with the important decision makers of technology being pre-pubescent teens.

      --
      Everything in moderation, including moderation itself
    2. Re:Cough by bloobloo · · Score: 3, Funny

      Dude, this is slashdot. We don't want talk of intelligent design here.

    3. Re:Cough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I don't see this as a huge problem for society, so much as for the older segment of it.

      Of course, as development accelerates the age before which one can stay relevant is likely to drop, with interesting consequences - either we develop some kind of mental process-prosthesis to enable adults to continue interacting usefully with society, or we learn to live with the important decision makers of technology being pre-pubescent teens.


      What mindless babbling. In an age where we have to go to school longer and longer to acquire the skills for the technical and academic jobs, you honestly think that the ages are getting younger and younger?

      Oh, wait, these kids grow up with computers. I forgot. What a technical wonder it is to run Windows. I often have to teach my kids how to do certain things on the computer that goes beyond surfing a web page. And these are teenagers.

      But it's true - the older generation might be a little lost when it comes to myspace or whatever the next fad is.

      BTWo, it's not a matter of "keeping up", it's a matter of ignoring/blocking more and more irrevelant information in your life. The signal to noise ratio is growing ever higher. I can spend time keeping up with the news, but 99% of that is a waste of time, especially since I'm not a politician. So it is with /., unless something truly revolutionary comes about, once in a blue moon.

      Seriously, if I haven't read /. in the last 5 years - for all that not keeping up, I would have missed maybe a day's worth of reading that's truly relevant to my situation and applicable. Big whoop.
  2. On the Other Hand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One might argue that such access to information actually decreases productivity. We're easily distracted creatures, after all. Maybe productivity peaked after the introduction of the personal computer, but before ubiquitous Internet access.

    I wonder how many people spend their entire working day browsing MySpace or Slashdot. ;-)

  3. Obviously... by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 4, Funny
    Unfortunately I am now approaching stasis. Any amount of basic machine upgrading, and it continues apace, won't make a jot of difference, as I am now the fundamental slowdown agent.

    Obviously Mr. Cochrane has never tried using Microsoft Vista.

    --
    Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
    1. Re:Obviously... by name*censored* · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Any amount of basic machine upgrading, and it continues apace, won't make a jot of difference, as I am now the fundamental slowdown agent.
      So HE'S the one slowing us down? Well that's easy, we just get rid of him. Problem solved.

      In all seriousness, the computers have only reached a point where the interfaces are now outdated in comparison to how much data it can simultaneously accept and act on (eg, i can click on an icon and it will be told both "click", and "open program" fast enough that I don't have to wait for it). Seems to me that it's just calling for the UIs to be upgraded - we could start using other body parts (cue jokes) such as eye focus for mouse pointer position (not my idea, another slashdot pundit). Or, as has been suggested in this topic, better voice commands, and audiable hotkeys (like that light-clapper thing, except it opens your web browser instead of turning the light on/off). Or we could have interfaces that have more complex meanings than only one ascii value - such as the internet keyboards with buttons for various programs, or with hotkeys speeding up productivity.

      OR.. we could have interfaces that don't rely on physical movement, since even the fastest typist (keyboard) or gamer (mouse) are still much slower than their own brains. All the real life influences - the actual physics of arm momentum (don't go for the numpad too fast or you'll overshoot), appendage-anatomy limitations (RSI anyone?) and taking into account other obstacles (don't knock that coffee over!) slow them down. Perhaps we could have more intuitive machines, as the post suggests. Perhaps we could just have MORE task-queueing technology, which performs background tasks while waiting for user input (indexing the hard disk for searching, defragmenting, virus scanning, etc) so that the machine is ALWAYS waiting for user input, and we cut out that last little bit of having the user wait on the machine. Maybe we could enlarge UI areas, like the control centres in the matrix or minority report - it might be especially useful for coding (grab a variable/etc name or three from one place and a chunk of code from another window of related code) or graphics/design type work (grab colours, picture segments, morph shapes, you could assign a different line thickness to each finger! Perhaps body alterations - installing extra "memory" for multitasking, a telly in your tubby, a USB in your knee, bluetooth in your tooth or WIFI in your thigh..
      --
      Commodore64_love: I don't comprehend people who're so frightened of death that they'll bankrupt themselves to stay alive
  4. Centuries-old saw by gvc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At the end of the 19th century it was commonly thought that pretty well everything that needed to be known about science and technology was known; that only incremental development would occur from then on.

    Similar lack of imagination has been expressed in many contexts over the years.

    And, by the way, who says that 'productivity' is a useful measure of anything?

    1. Re:Centuries-old saw by FooAtWFU · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Economists, since productivity determines how much stuff will get produced, which determines how much stuff per person there is, and that's pretty much a measure of the standard of living that will result ("real GDP per capita").

      When you're talking about productivity in the entire economy, you can draw a graph - on the Y axis is "real GDP per capita" while on the X axis is "capital / labor" (K/L for short). If you add more capital (machines, computers, tools) people get more productive, but less so as you add more and more and more. This means the line you graph will start somewhat steep, but then level off as you get higher (not entirely unlike the graph of sqrt(x)). The rough guideline for the economy at present is the "rule of one third" - if you increase your capital stock by 100%, you'll get about 33% more output. This sort of rule determines how much capital we end up having - we will increase our capital stock with investment until we have reached the "target rate of return", which is actually a slope of this productivity curve. This is the point at which investment pays for itself.

      Then there are wonderful things like increases in technology. These end up shifting the productivity curve upward: people can do more with their technology than they could before. This increases real GDP per capita directly, but it also means that for the same level of capital, we're below the target rate of return, and can invest in all sorts of new capital, which will pay for itself - so we increase our capital stock as well.

      The good news is that technology keeps coming, and while it may not be quite the same Spectacular Breakthrough as the introduction of computers, there is plenty happening in a variety of industries. Take, for example, Wal*Mart (the company everyone loves to hate, yes...) They have achieved a substantial portion of their success by becoming more productive with managing their warehouses and inventories, and are actively looking to increase their productivity in this area. (In fact, I've seen studies that claim they were responsible for the bulk of retail productivity growth in the late 90's, directly or indirectly). "Supply chain management" is trendy. And perhaps some day we will see RFID tags at the check-out line (to replace the last great checkout productivity enhancer, bar codes).

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    2. Re:Centuries-old saw by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well I still see a lot of places where people are doing easily programable repetitive tasks that take them all day to do. I bring up making them a program to do that I get 2 responses.

      1. You can do that on a computer!
      2. Nah it is easier this way.

      #1 is just from ignorance and assume if the Job is difficult for them to do that it will be difficult for the computer to do. Conversely they also assume if it is simple for a person to do it is simple for a computer to do.

      #2 I normally get that if it is the persons primary job or they like doing these tasks. So a program will improve their lively hood.

      A common fallacy is that computer makes our lives easier. It makes us more productive by doing the work on all the easy mind numbing tasks. Giving us more time to focus on the hard stuff, that requires more thinking. There is much room for improving productivity. Technologies such as character/speach recognition, Improvements in robotics, Business Intelligence.

      Go and ask almost any mid size company if they can give you list of the top selling items by State, or by City. I bet most wouldn't be able to do that. And that is just some simple database queries. There is a lot of room for expansion. We tend for fail to see it because we are now use to the speed that things change. Just think about the power the newest laptops now. And compare them to the servers 5 years ago. Each core is now over 3-4 times faster and now we have duel core laptops. So a system back in 2001 with that amount of juice would cost over $10,000 (Figuring 8 CPU Systems with 3 GB of RAM, 100GB Drives, DVD/CD RW) 17" LCD Screen (Well lets make it 2 to match the resolution...) That is just 5 years ago. A single person now has enough power to run a mid size company 5 years ago. We just don't realize the change because we are use to moving up at the same speed. As computers are improving so is our skills with our job. So as we get better at our job we also get better tools that help up improve them.

      All this is assuming that your company is not one of those cheap bastards who don't want to get new programs because they don't see value in it.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:Centuries-old saw by gad_zuki! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >#1 is just from ignorance and assume if the Job is difficult for them to do that it will be difficult for the computer to do.

      I'm not sure about that. The difficulty lies in getting a good programmer and whether or not a program is worth the cost.

      I think there's no shortage of consultants who do nothing but fleece small business by coming in with an automated solution that is either an excel macro or some craptackular access database which are usually flakey, crash-prone, half-assed, and difficult to backup properly. Not to mention it ties them more into the MS monopoly.

      Even if you find yourself a good app developer there are costs to consider. If it still cheaper to do it by hand, then why bother? Especially considering the glut of labor in the US. Heck, people go to college, get saddled with loans, and are happy to take 30,000 a year jobs. Toss in all the foreign workers chopping at the bit to come here too. From a business perspective having them do the same old makes financial sense and I'm sure some people look at automation with some amount of fears as it might make them redundant.

    4. Re:Centuries-old saw by Skim123 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The difficulty lies in getting a good programmer and whether or not a program is worth the cost.

      I agree that it is too difficult to get a skilled programmer, but I think almost always it will be worth the cost.

      Even if you find yourself a good app developer there are costs to consider. If it still cheaper to do it by hand, then why bother? Especially considering the glut of labor in the US. Heck, people go to college, get saddled with loans, and are happy to take 30,000 a year jobs. Toss in all the foreign workers chopping at the bit to come here too. From a business perspective having them do the same old makes financial sense and I'm sure some people look at automation with some amount of fears as it might make them redundant.

      In the short term, yes, it may make sense to stick with a person doing the job. But in the long run, automation will be more profitable. For example, imagine it takes $90K to write the software to replace the job of a $30K/year worker. That will pay for itself in three years and by year four, the investment will have a positive ROI. While you're still paying that $30K worker, I'm getting the work done for free. Also, since I'm assuming this $30K worker has some intelligence, some ideas, and some skills in the marketplace, by automating his mundane job, I can now turn him lose on more interesting projects. He can help lead new product lines, while you are still paying his equivalent to just do repetitive tasks that are only fit for a computer.

      I think the real challenges and hesitation from people to move to an automated system is from familiarity with the old system or fear/experience of failure with an automated system. All it takes is one bad experience - a poorly written program that crashes one day and wipes out weeks of data since the backups weren't setup properly, for example - and many decision makers will insist on more manual approaches. Another factor may be that some business partner or regulating agency requires that work be performed in a particular mannere or that certain items be made available that essentially have to be done by humans. I work on software for the health care industry, and some of the "complexities" in dealing with the county and state agencies greatly reduce the amount of automation that can be applied to a given task.

      --

      I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.

  5. The myth of 'productivity' by kahei · · Score: 3, Interesting


    My local lawyer, for example, used to get about 20% of the town's law traffic 10 years ago. It's now computerized and processes far more documents and communications, at a far faster rate, than it ever used to. It still gets about 20% of the town's law traffic, as its competitors have upgraded in exactly the same way. The courts, of course, recieve far more documents and messages from these lawyers than they ever used to, but the courts themselves have also computerized (just barely) and can handle the extra traffic.

    In terms of 'productivity', I'd think that the lawyers, paralegals, court administrators and so on have improved by 10 times. In terms of how much useful stuff gets done, it's exactly constant.

    So yeah, by all means integrate Google technology with your cornflakes to achieve a further tenfold increase in productivity. Go right ahead.

    In more important news, I currently have a co-worker who spends all day reading his friend's blogs (which doesn't bother me) and giggling over the witty posts he finds (which is driving me fucking mad). Can any slashdotters suggest a solution that will not result in jail or in me being considered 'not a team player'?

    --
    Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
  6. hardware productivity may have peaked by cucucu · · Score: 3, Insightful
    He states it clearly that he is talking about hardware (not that I agree). He says by himself that software can still bring improvements. From TFA:



    So if raw processing power, storage and bandwidth can't help, what will? What is it I need to leap forward by another factor of 10? In a word: intelligence. In two words: machine intelligence. I need something that monitors my activities, anticipates my next move and automatically satisfies my needs.



    I think the current trend in software is not intelligent software, but software that allows us to enlist our collective intelligence, or collaboration software, such as wikis, sharepoint, simultaneously edited spreadsheets, etc.
    The author of TFA that makes so much use of the word I: he should start to think in term of us, and install the software that allows him to productively do so. Then he will see he starts departing the stassis he feels he is in.
  7. Re:Wrong presupposition by ThosLives · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm just curious as to what is meant by 'productivity' anyway. I hate the numbers that are thrown around in the media. I want to see hard numbers like "bushels of produce per man-hour" and things like that - not something in silly relative units like dollars of economic activity (especially when a lot of economic activity is actually not 'productive' at all - for instance, selling a house in my mind is not productivity, but building a house is. Heck, if selling a house was 'productive', I could just keep selling a house back and forth between two parties and be the most productive real-estate agent in the universe - except that nothing actually changed. Note that I don't mean that selling a house isn't valuable; it's just not, in my mind, related to productivity).

    --
    "There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
  8. Why by teflaime · · Score: 4, Insightful

    do we need continued 10 fold increases in productivity? If we are a society that is going to require work from our citizens, then we need to provide work for our citizens to do. We only need increased productivity if we are, as a society, going to support at a reasonable level those persons who have been automated out of the work force and can't be retrained (and there are a lot of them). Business has a social obligation to support the societies that it parasitizes. Besides, if it doesn't support the society that it feeds off, soon it will have exhausted its food supply.

  9. Re:No man is an island by pubjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Having been to one of Peter Cochrane's talks before, and having spoken to him, I know this guy is many years ahead of the rest of us.

    I've been to one of his talks as well. He is not years ahead of the rest of us, he is full of bollocks. Have you read one of BT's future predictions documents? (Which I believe come out of Cochrane's department) They are full of things like "in 20 years time, we will control computers with our minds, and we won't have lunch, we'll eat a pill!" If you find the stuff he says to be visionary, you don't have much imagination...

  10. Too Much Information? Bollocks! by f00Dave · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sounds to me like the old "information overload" phenomenon. The solution-pattern to this situation is never going to be found via incremental improvements in information processing, as the growth is exponential. Nor will an "add-on" approach solve the problem; while hyperlinks, search engines, and other qualitatively-impressive tools are awesome in their own right (and do help!), they only add a layer or two to an information-growth process that adds layers supralinearly ... they're another "stop-gap measure", though they're also the best we've come up with, so far.

    So how to solve an unsolvable problem? Rephrase it! IMO, the problem isn't "too much information", as that's already been solved by the "biocomputer" we all watch the Simpsons with: our senses/brains already process "too much information" handily, but with lots of errors. No, the problem is that we're using the wrong approach to what we call "information" in the first place! We're rather fond of numbers (numeric forms of representation), as they've been around for around eight thousand years, and words (linear forms of representation) go back even farther. Pictures, music, etcetera store far more information (qualitative, structural forms of representation), but usually get mapped back to bitmaps, byte counts, and Shannon's information theory when this discussion starts. And that's the heart of it right there: everyone assumes that reducing (or mapping) everything to numbers is the only way to maintain objectivity, or measure (functional) quality.

    Here's a challenge: is there a natural way to measure the "information-organizing capability" of a system? Meaning some approach/algorithm/technique simple enough for a kid or grandparent to understand, that most human beings will agree on, and that puts humans above machines for such things as recognizing pictures of cats (without having to have "trained" the machine on a bajillion pictures first). [Grammars are a reasonable start, but you have to explain where the grammars come from in the first place, and what metric you want to use to optimize them.]

    A constant insistence/reliance on numeric measurements of accomplishment just ends up dehumanizing us, and doesn't spur the development of tools to deal with the root problem: the lack of automatic and natural organization of the "too much information" ocean we're sinking in. If we're not a little bit careful, we'll end up making things that are "good enough" -- perhaps an AI, perhaps brain augmentation, [insert Singularity thing here] -- as this is par for the course in evolutionary terms. But it's not the most efficient approach; we already have brains, let's use 'em to solve "unsolvable" problems by questioning our deep assumptions on occasion! :-)

    Disclaimer: the research group I work with (when not on "programming for profit" breaks, heh) is investigating one possible avenue in this general direction, a mathematical, structural language called ETS, which we hope will stimulate the growth of interest in alternative forms of information representation.

    --
    .f00Dave
  11. Depends on your profession by Pedrito · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sure, for most people, productivity isn't going to increase 10-fold. Hell, as a software engineer, I can't imagine getting 10 times as much stuff done in the same period of time anytime soon. Faster computers wont' help and about the only thing that would speed up my productivity as a programmer is software that would write the code for me, putting me out of a job.

    There are a lot of people working in the sciences who think differently, though. Chemists, biologists, physicists, could all do well with, not just smarter programs, but faster computers. As a couple of simple examples: Molecular mechanics modeling for chemists and protein folding modeling for biologist (particularly the latter, and both are related), are insanely computationally intensive and if computers were able to provide the results in 1/10th or 1/100th of the time, it would make a big difference in their ability to get things done. So I think it kind of depends what you do. I mean, let's face it, if you're a secretary, a faster word processor isn't going to make you 10 times more productive. Maybe a faster copier would help...

  12. Re:No man is an island by pubjames · · Score: 4, Informative

    From this article on the BBC website:

    The latest technology timeline released by BT suggests hundreds of different inventions for the next few decades including:

            * 2012: personal 'black boxes' record everything you do every day
            * 2015: images beamed directly into your eyeballs
            * 2017: first hotel in orbit
            * 2020: artificial intelligence elected to parliament
            * 2040: robots become mentally and physically superior to humans
            * 2075 (at the earliest): time travel invented

    So, according to BT research, in 14 years time we are going to have computers sitting in parilament, in 34 years time there are going to be robots that are mentally superior to us and I may see time travel invented in my lifetime. Sorry if I don't take this stuff seriously. Wasn't it fashionable to predict this kind of thing in the 1950's?

    Yes, some of their shorter term predictions are better, but I can make good short term predictions too.

  13. Yes, if we follow his obscure assumptions by michaelmalak · · Score: 3, Informative
    IRTFA.

    Yes, productivity has peaked if we adhere to his non-standard assumptions and definitions. His first assumption is that everyone is like him. I assume he's a writer, which involves a higher ratio of higher thinking to mundane tasks than average. I see EAI and data processing put people out of work (or allow an exisitng team to process more data) every day in the busines world.

    Even if we focus on his narrow world, he says that a better search engine would help his job. But he labels all such improvements as "machine intelligence" and declares them out of bounds for the point he's trying to make which is that hardware alone will not improve his personal productivity. He's basically declaring all software improvements as out of bounds in order to declare the "peak of productivity".

    Finally, I bet his productivity has improved since 2004 despite his protestations to the contrary. Wikipedia is much faster than search engines to get a neutral concise summary and handful of the most relevant links. Shall we take away the author's access to Wikipedia? He obviously doesn't need it.

  14. Ah ha by proxy318 · · Score: 3, Funny
    What we need is a cognitive approach with search material retreated and presented in some context relative to our current end-objectives at the time.
    Oh is that what we need? Maybe we can synergize our core-concepts to think outside of the box, thereby ensuring we work smarter not harder, and then we can leverage our paradigms to holistically obtain next generation perspective.

    Is it so damn hard to to say "we need a new approach"?
    --
    Saying your "phone ran out of batteries" is like saying your "car ran out of gas tanks".
  15. If productivity per man-hour has increased .... by srobert · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If productivity per man-hour has increased so much, then why the hell are we still working over 40 hours a week? Where is all this new wealth accruing? Why am I working more hours with a college degree to have a lower living standard than my father had 40 years ago? And he didn't even graduate from high school. We should have been on a 32 hour standard workweek many years ago.

  16. Teleworking by wikinerd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I study for an MSc in Management, and my Management books say it clearly: Telecommuting and teleworking increase employee productivity at least by 20% without exception, if implemented right. This is what we learn at a government-funded university. Therefore, productivity, at least in business, has not peaked, as most businesses are still requiring to lose 3 hours in commuting to your cubicle farm, where you sit all day in front of a computer similar to the one(s) you have at home, often doing exactly the same things (programming and Slashdot), only at a different place. It's crazy.