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Microsoft Squeezes Win2000 Users

darkonc writes "InformationWeek has a story on how Microsoft is squeezing Windows 2000 users as Vista and Office 2007 are being released. While some new software is legitimately unable to run on Windows 2000, other software (like MS's anti-spyware product) will install and run flawlessly — but only if you remove an explicit check for Windows 2000 in the installer." The article notes that other vendors, for example Sun, have more liberal and flexible support policies for legacy products.

24 of 404 comments (clear)

  1. Win2000 rules by LittleImp · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I haven't tried Vista yet, but at work I only use Windows 2000. I think it's much faster and even more stable than XP. At least when I open up the Task Manager on XP, every Task uses at least 5MB of RAM, while on 2k most of the Tasks use less than 1MB. I bet upgrading to Vista means also a hardware update for most people, so maybe some will switch to an open source alternative.

    1. Re:Win2000 rules by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Its not just vista.

      Every recent MS product has just felt *slow*.
      Its like outlook and office in general, the interface looks nice and logical, but it has lost its snappiness.
      Actions involving a full page refresh appear like a web page.
      Clicking between folders in Outlook leaves the old mail on screen briefly and things just aren't better.

      I was evaluating visual studio .net again this week and whilst it might technically do everything it needs to, its slower than VS 6 at most things.
      My colleagues think I should live on oldversion.com, but I just don't like the direction MS has taken.

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
  2. Netcraft confirms it: Windows 2000 is dead. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Windows 2000 is rarely used anymore. Get with the times. It's going to be 2007, that'll make it 7 years old. Besides, its GUI is hideous compared to Vista's Aero goodness. Does anybody really want to use an OS that looks like Win95? Furthermore, the only people still stuck on Windows 2000 are paranoid weirdos afraid of Microsoft activation and are probably stealing their licenses anyway.

    1. Re:Netcraft confirms it: Windows 2000 is dead. by Grimbleton · · Score: 5, Funny

      So how tight is the foil on YOUR head?

    2. Re:Netcraft confirms it: Windows 2000 is dead. by Kierthos · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hey, I don't know about you, but when I first got XP, practically the first thing I did was change the GUI back to Windows Classic because I didn't want something that looked like it was designed by the Teletubbies.

      Vista can have all the oooh and aaaaah it wants in it's GUI, but guess what? When I eventually "upgrade" to it, I'm turning all that crap off.

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    3. Re:Netcraft confirms it: Windows 2000 is dead. by berberine · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I still use Win2k. It's not dead for me. Yes, I want to use it. Everything I run works on it. It's on 24/7 with a reboot every 4-5 weeks. I don't play games on the computer so I don't need the latest, greatest thing. I paid for my license, am not a paranoid weirdo and don't have a problem with my computer looking the way it does instead of some Fisher Price/Playskool, created by a two-year old GUI. I have XP on my laptop. It too has the classic look. When the time comes that, what I do can no longer work on Win2k, I'll be moving to Linux. That, however, may be a long time away since I do now what I did in 1993 with my computer, with the exception of videos. I don't need some fancy aero glass to make me feel better. I just need a machine that works. BTW, my car is 6 years old. I bought it brand new. It works flawlessly, with only minor adjustments from time to time. Should I get with the times and throw it out too?

    4. Re:Netcraft confirms it: Windows 2000 is dead. by tilandal · · Score: 4, Interesting

      90% of computers in the business world don't need anything better then Windows 2000. Heck, Most business computers would be fine running Windows NT. Most PC's in the business world are set up to do basic data entry and retrieval and don't need to do anything else. The Bank teller doesn't need DirectX 10. The call center worker doesn't need an advanced GUI. The Mechanic doesn't need a Quad core CPU. What businesses do need is a reliable long term solution that runs with minimal trouble.

    5. Re:Netcraft confirms it: Windows 2000 is dead. by ci4 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      E&S Glaze OpenGL benchmark is about twice as fast on Vista with classic theme, compared to the default Aero. This is on a reasonable dual Opteron system with 4GB memory and Quadro FX560 graphics card (and yes, build 6000 with the currently available NVidia driver).

      The first thing I do on Vista is switch to classic (the second being turn off the side bar forever). I wonder if Microsoft have ever heard that their OS is being used by real people to run CAD/CAM applications... not that they want it, but they are forced to.

      Will try the same this week with a FireGL card to see if ATI are better.

    6. Re:Netcraft confirms it: Windows 2000 is dead. by Haeleth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      with a decent black theme, XP can look pretty awesome. ;) But of course if your interested in being stuck in your gray, boring world, feel free. ;)

      Because, of course, black is far more exciting than grey...?

      Look, even Apple has been increasing the grey content of OS X steadily since the very start. Now half the applications are brushed metal, which is, uh, kind of grey. And remember the "graphite" theme they introduced after their graphic artist customer base complained that Aqua was too distracting? You know, the one that turns the entire OS grey?

      This "grey is for boring people" thing is getting seriously old. Themes are for people who have nothing better to do than play with themes; "dull" colours like grey (and Ubuntu's beige) are for people who are doing interesting things with their computers, and want the interface to get out of the way when they're not interacting with it. Maybe you spend all your time salivating over your awesomely pretty menus and scrollbars, but some of us are too busy enjoying our interesting and fulfilling work to care what the menus look like.

    7. Re:Netcraft confirms it: Windows 2000 is dead. by sbben · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hey, I don't know about you, but when I first got XP, practically the first thing I did was change the GUI back to Windows Classic
      Most people did.

      Windows 2000 was an amazing operating system for its time. As stable as XP, it wasn't as much of a resource hog. It would run quite nicely on 64mb of ram. Yeah, aero looks good in Vista, but when it comes to hardware requirements, it is simply not suitable for many businesses who may have hundreds of computers not quite vista ready. If you like aero and would like to upgrade, that's fine. But locking out w2k users with software that will run fine if not for an explicit OS version check is just unfair. If the software is capable of running on an OS, I expect it to run on that OS. I don't think that is asking too much.
    8. Re:Netcraft confirms it: Windows 2000 is dead. by Goaway · · Score: 4, Funny

      Themes are for people who think ";)" is punctuation.

    9. Re:Netcraft confirms it: Windows 2000 is dead. by Anonymous+Cowled · · Score: 4, Funny

      > I don't know about you or the GP, but mine is always at, or greater than, 250 psi.

      Whoa, dude - slacken that off a bit - If it's too tight to your head, it just works as a transmitter!!

  3. Ease of system administration by pe1chl · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Chinnery says he's accepted the fact that he'll have to use the utility to fix his Windows 2000 systems. But, lacking an easily deployable patch, it means he must walk around to tweak each machine in his organization. This is a chore he doesn't feel he should face.

    This is what you get for having systems that can be administered using a simple mouseclick by somone with only superficial knowledge of the matter!
    Of course it would be simple to automatically install a registry fix on all systems on his network, but he has become so accustomed to every tiny fix being installed in a hundreds of KB executable with automatic installer that he has never learned (or forgotten) how to script such simple things himself.

    The daylight saving time mechanism in Windows is broken anyway. Posix DST handling is much better, especially (but not only) when the definition of start and end dates changes.

  4. Cut the BS by p0tat03 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From the summary: "other software (like MS's anti-spyware product) will install and run flawlessly -- but only if you remove an explicit check for Windows 2000 in the installer."

    I work for a software company - and I suspect many Slashdotters do also, and there are extremely good reasons for this. My company's software dropped support for OSX Panther in our last release, even though in all likelihood there wouldn't be any trouble running it on Panther - we weren't using anything that would specifically be known to break Panther, right?

    But one has to realize that to release software on a mass scale involves a lot of QA work. You cannot say "we're not using any XP-only features, so it must work on 2K also!", you have to rigorously test your software on all supported platforms. Failure to do so is irresponsible and unprofessional. This means that, if you wish the drop the overhead of testing in 2K, then you stop supporting 2K, and to prevent consumers from installing your software and then coming back to complain about it (or worse, posting a scathing blog entry about your software's suckitude), you simply block the installation of the software on the older OS.

    There's nothing evil about this, this is a simple business decision: you cannot support every legacy OS forever, and as new OS'es get released, your QA load increases. At some point you have to drop support for legacy OS'es, even if they are still technologically compatible with your software.

    1. Re:Cut the BS by alexhs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      if you wish the drop the overhead of testing in 2K, then you stop supporting 2K, and to prevent consumers from installing your software and then coming back to complain about it, you simply block the installation of the software on the older OS. What's wrong with only showing a dialog box ?

      Lots of programs in the win9x era would show a dialog box at installation when you tried to install them on a winnt system : Might not work, unsupported...
      Then, it's the user responsability to choose.
      --
      I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
    2. Re:Cut the BS by p0tat03 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Another poster below you also pointed out the same strategy. It is a valid notion, I admit, but considering our software is targeted at average users who may not be technically inclined, I believe ours is the right decision. I believe you are grossly underestimating the intelligence, or dare I suggest, honesty of the average software user.

      If you give them the option to install, they will ignore any and all warnings and call you anyway when they run into problems. Worse yet, they will fly off the hook and begin slandering your software to anyone who will listen, and you bet your ass that their version of the story won't contain the fact that they're running on an unsupported OS.

      Some won't even understand what the warning means, or some won't even read it - the "OK" button is just too large and tempting to click.

      The install/runtime check is more of a preventative motion than anything else. We don't want to present a negative image of our product when know-nothing users decide to run it on unsupported hardware/software and get stuck. We don't want support calls related to this - even listening to them long enough to kick them off the line costs us valuable dollars and cents. We want nothing to do with this possibility - and the number of honest consumers who will legitimately accept the lack of support and run it on an old OS is small enough that we really don't want to open ourselves to that risk. Honestly, if there were a significant number of people still using the OS, we wouldn't drop support for it.

      Disclaimer: The above is a personal opinion and in no way represents the views of my employer.

  5. I walked away from Activation by Geof · · Score: 5, Interesting

    the only people still stuck on Windows 2000 are paranoid weirdos afraid of Microsoft activation and are probably stealing their licenses anyway

    I was an MSDN Universal subscriber and Windows developer when XP came out, so I had 10 legit XP licenses. But I had no interest in being an early adopter setting a precedent for activation. Nor, now that they don't allow people to take their copy of the OS with them when they upgrade the machine, did I want to further lock myself into system whose costs increase while my freedoms decrease. I suppose I could have planned on piracy, but I have the odd conviction (one apparently not shared by a whole lot of companies) that it's unethical to make money by breaking the rules.

    I stayed with Win2k, moved my data away from Office and into open formats (mbox, Open Office), turned my attention towards FOSS development, and finally switched to Mac. Incidentally, the Mac is very pretty, but I would have been fine with W2K's "hideous" look. Apple's no saint; someday I expect I will similarly have to make the shift to Linux.

    Paranoid? No. I just want control of my computer and my data, and I don't want my money to encourage schemes like DRM which erode my freedom and that of others.

  6. Solaris 2.6 support? by larien · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Hrm, article is inaccurate:
    (Sun) is actually still supporting users of version 2.6. ... the operating system is fully supported through 2007
    Not according to Sun's own website where support ended in July. We've actually called up Sun and they refused the call because 2.6 was out of support.

    That said, 2.6 is a pretty old release and we're overdue doing an upgrade on it, but it's inaccurate to say Sun still support it. Added to that, there are a number of Sun Alerts which come out and say that older versions aren't being evaluated for certain bugs.

  7. The Boston Globe by telchine · · Score: 5, Funny

    I phone up the Boston Globe and asked for their advice. they said I should "stop using Windows 2000"

    Man, those guys are good!

  8. You love me, you really love me ! by Joebert · · Score: 5, Funny

    When my mom squeezes me, it means she loves me.
    I think that's why Microsoft does it too.
    I still haven't figured out why Uncle Tom squeezes me though. :/

    --
    Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
  9. Vista Upgrade Advisor by almclean · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If Microsoft wants people to upgrade from Windows 2000 to Vista then why doesn't the Vista Upgrade Advisor http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/upg radeadvisor/default.mspx run under Windows 2000?

  10. It makes perfect business sense by Luscious868 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It makes perfect business sense for Microsoft to produce versions of their software that requires new hardware or hardware upgrades to get acceptable performance. New hardware generally equals new OEM Microsoft licenses. Think about it. To the average consumer if you've got to upgrade your processor, motherboard, RAM and/or hard drive you might as well buy a new system and that means you're probably going to be paying the Microsoft tax. It's very much in Microsoft's interest to require you to upgrade your hardware to run the latest version of their products. It's no accident and by now no one should be naive enough to chalk it up to bad coding. It's done on purpose and for very sound business rea$ons...

    1. Re:It makes perfect business sense by The+Warlock · · Score: 4, Informative

      Some distros are significantly faster. The thing about Linux is that it's not one operating system, it's a huge collection of different distributions, each tailored for different needs. Damn Small Linux is going to fill a different niche than Gentoo, which will fill a different nice than Ubuntu or Red Hat, etc. etc.

      Linux can use any number of GUIs, or no GUI at all. If you want something significantly faster than Windows, don't use Gnome or KDE, as these are a bit bloated (or "fully-featured", if you want to put it nicely). Use XFCE or IceWM or Fluxbox, instead.

      --
      I've upped my standards, so up yours.
    2. Re:It makes perfect business sense by inode_buddha · · Score: 4, Interesting
      "If microsoft is going out of their way to make everything slow, then why isn't linux SIGNIFICANTLY faster?"

      It is. This 4-year-old P3 (Fedora Core 6) box is easily keeping up with my dad's brand-new Dell/XP setup. Both boxes are fully loaded with *everything*, both hardware and software. If I want to make it really snappy, I can do some re-compiling and just install only the stuff I use. I doubt that most MS users can say that.

      --
      C|N>K