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Vista vs. Cairo - A Microsoft History Lesson

avocade writes "Here is a nice history lesson by (the unfortunately infamous) Daniel Eran, arguing why the Longhorn/Vista road is very similar to the NT/Cairo road that Microsoft took in the 90's, effectively trying their best to discourage competition in the marketplace."

22 of 194 comments (clear)

  1. Cairo vs NT/Cairo by DreadSpoon · · Score: 4, Informative

    This article has a confusing title, given that dominance of the Cairo graphics library these days.

    1. Re:Cairo vs NT/Cairo by 6Yankee · · Score: 5, Funny

      Even more confusing when you read it as "Vista vs. Casio", and look forward to a story about a digital watch being forced to run Vista and bursting into flames :(

  2. Infamous indeed - spammer by mccalli · · Score: 5, Informative

    Daniel Eran has been spamming uk.comp.sys.mac for weeks now, ignoring every polite request for him to stop. He shows no sign of engaging with the group (beyond calling us "a hateful bunch of queens"), just spams links to his blog against charter and then swans off again.

    Daniel Eran. Just Say No.

    Cheers,
    Ian

    1. Re:Infamous indeed - spammer by cloricus · · Score: 4, Funny

      We don't have to; His server is already slashdotted!
       
      Maybe he is still running an early 90s NT server?

      --
      I ate your fish.
  3. WTF by Timesprout · · Score: 3, Informative

    Article rambles all over the place, seems more to be pleading for reader to look at previous articles by author rather than make its higly convoluted point. Reads like a lot of sour grapes about historical irrelevance so I assume the author is just looking for hits by trying to be inflamatory.

    --
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    What truth?
    There is no dupe
  4. NT by DrSkwid · · Score: 4, Interesting

    NT stand for Nested Task, it's a register in the 286 that helps preepmtive multi-tasking which is the feature of both OS/2 and NT that distinguishes them from Window 3.x/9x that used co-operative multi-tasking.

    http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2006/readings/i386 /s04_01.htm

    4.1.1 Systems Flags
    The systems flags of the EFLAGS register control I/O, maskable interrupts, debugging, task switching, and enabling of virtual 8086 execution in a protected, multitasking environment. These flags are highlighted in Figure 4-1 .

    NT (Nested Task, bit 14)
            The processor uses the nested task flag to control chaining of interrupted and called tasks. NT influences the operation of the IRET instruction .

    --
    There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    1. Re:NT by pla · · Score: 4, Interesting

      NT stand for Nested Task

      Or, officially, "New Technology".

      Or, the most likely of all, by analogy to IBM -> HAL (as in, HAL-9000 from the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey), VMS -> W(indows)NT. I would normally consider that a cute coincidence, if they didn't share Dave Cutler as a lead designer on both projects.

      But given that he did help design both OSs, and the propensity for geeks to come up with bizarrely convoluted acronyms, I'd call that the "right" answer as to the origins of the name "NT".

    2. Re:NT by diegocgteleline.es · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Sight. This topic. Again.

      Just check the Windows NT wikipedia page, which links at page, where you can find this quote from one of the original NT creators:

      "We checked the first code pieces in around mid-December 1988," Lucovsky said, "and had a very basic system kind of booting on a simulator of the Intel i860 (which was codenamed "N-Ten") by January." In fact, this is where NT actually got its name, Lucovsky revealed, adding that the "new technology" moniker was added after the fact in a rare spurt of product marketing by the original NT team members. "Originally, we were targeting NT to the Intel i860, a RISC processor that was horribly behind schedule. Because we didn't have any i860 machines in-house to test on, we used an i860 simulator. That's why we called it NT, because it worked on the 'N-Ten.'"

      So please, stop all those theories, the origins of the name are well documented.

  5. Re:How else do you get a message out? by mccalli · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If an individual has a message they feel is important that they want to get out, I don't see an issue with posting a reference or two. Flooding a board is another story.

    ...and flooding is what's taking place. Yes, a post such as "here's a new and interesting Apple-related blog, please come and have a look" would have gone down fine. Instead we get every single article he writes for this blog being dumped as a rhetorical question into a group which specifically forbids advertising, and then he never engages in any discussion regarding it. The regulars of the group have all asked him to stop. He just totally disregards us.

    Besides, using the term "SPAM" is inaccurate: what is the commercial benefit of his links?

    Advertising revenue. He's abusing a community discussion group to take every opportunity to dump links to his advert revenue-driven blog. The group does not exist for his enrichment, as we say on there: uk.comp.sys.mac.adverts is thataway -->.

    Cheers,
    Ian

  6. Better Windows history here... by Aphrika · · Score: 5, Informative

    Wikipedia - generally a little more authoritative than a (rather opinionated and flawed) blog entry.

    Incidentally, I distinctly remember Cairo not being vaporware or a hoax as stated in the article, there were certainly dodgy builds of it floating around before it was canned and NT 4.0 appeared as a Win95-ified NT 3.51 replacement. The idea that Cairo was a hoax in a non-starter. That's like saying Copland was a hoax, no, sometimes projects get shelved because they're not working out - OS design is an area of computing where it's incredibly easy to be idealogical about features, then figure out that you just can't deliver the goods.

    1. Re:Better Windows history here... by SmurfButcher+Bob · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, I'd suggest that you missed the author's point, entirely. Perhaps it is due to you not being in the position to buy the various products at the time, I don't know.

      Here's the perspective. It has zero to do with "15 years later, we have a feature". It has *everything* to do with, "15 years ago, when we needed a solution, Microsoft said they would provide it in a TIMELY fashion." As a result, purchase decisions were directly impacted.

      We needed a mutlitasking OS to replace a DG Mini. Windows 1.0 was reputed to provide this functionality.
      We called them. "Multi tasking?" "Yes." "Multiple users?" "Absolutely."
      We bought it.
      They lied.
      We called them back.
      "The sales engineer was confused with the next version." End Quote.

      The project was shelved.
      CDOS, released by a company named "Digital Research", became viable.
      The project was rehashed, but Windows 2.0 was out. It's DOS support had few caveats, compared to CDOS.
      We called Microsoft.
      "Multitasking?"
      "Yep!"
      "You said the other one was. It wasn't."
      "We've totally rewritten it. It works for real."
      "Multi user?"

      We bought it.
      They lied.
      We called them back.
      "It doesn't work."
      "No? The NEXT one will, and it's due soon."

      See the pattern yet?
      We eventually bought CDOS (and later, CCDOS, a value-add version).

      We also bought Win30. Hazard a guess why?
      They lied, again.
      We also bought Win31. THAT one was initially stated to be preemptive, remember? And the sales pigs all claimed it was, when it was time to sign the check. Perhaps you've forgotten the RAGING DEBATES over that very issue, at the time... "Preemptive!" "No, it isn't!" "Yes, it is!" "No, it isn't!"

      Our project was fairly simple - run a couple of DOS boxes, and redirect STDIO to a serial port so that two people could run a program. This specific detail was explained to "Microsoft", EACH TIME.

      Every time... EVERY time... the MS tactic was to stall our purchase of a competing, fully viable product, via the gross misrepresentation of their own.

      The MS philosophy is, and has been, that it is better to ship an "empty box" on-time than to ship a working product a day late.
      And they have done so, and I have the disks to prove it - Excel's initial "DMF" floppy distribution, who's lzexpand didn't comprehend DMF... they literally put the "standard" Win31 lzex onto disk 1. Funny, it's LZEx that needs to READ these FATless disks. It couldn't POSSIBLY work. But, the version they needed wasn't read yet, so... ship it! ...To NT BO4.5, which contained such setup.ini script error gems such as "Syntax error line xxx: ***REMEMBER TO FINISH SQL INSTALL SCRIPT". I'm NOT joking. And, you don't know the half of the extent of this.

      Clearly, two "top tier" products at the time, and the installations not even been tested. Not once. NOT ONCE. And, the devs KNEW the crap wasn't finished. The Mgt KNEW the crap wasn't finished. Both cases, which were a year apart... the "official" MS reason for issuing new disks to me?

      "Media Defect". Again, I am NOT joking. Both cases, no matter how hard I argued, the call takers flat out REFUSED to admit the actual flaw. "No, the media is perfect. The setups are WRONG. Syntax errors... referencing a directory path that doesn't exist on the CD... trivial little things like that..."

      Because, you know, the standalone install disk for Exchange had the base directory in the root. On BO4.5, the base setup was a subdirectory. And the scripts hadn't been adapted for it.

      Trivial, little things. Right? Or, an omnipresent pattern, that just keeps on recurring.

      The point of the article is exactly correct; promise vaporware as a solution NOW, to prevent or stall the purchase of an existing solution, NOW. That they *might* actually deliver the vapor in five years? Irrelevent; I am NOT going to buy a "viable" solution today, when "nervana" is coming next week. I will wait, so that I can assess. Or worse, if the "vapor" is claimed to now exist,

      --

      help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am

  7. Text of TFA - Slashdotted by soulsteal · · Score: 3

    1990-1995: Microsoft's Yellow Road to Cairo
    Along with Ashton-Tate and Lotus Development, Microsoft was considered one of the Big Three software developers of the 80s. Apple courted all three to develop software for its new Macintosh.

    Ashton-Tate managed to run itself out of business, and Lotus was eventually bought up by IBM in 1995, leaving Microsoft as one of the largest and most influential developers of desktop applications.

    Microsoft's position as a vendor for both DOS and office applications gave it certain advantages over its rivals, particularly when Windows 95 appeared and obsolesced not just previous versions of DOS and Windows, but also competing developers' existing applications, including DOS standards WordPerfect and Lotus 1-2-3.

    Rapid advancements in technology created a wildly chaotic market, where simple announcements of future plans could trump real products. Given the prevalence of misinformation wars in the tech industry, it's no surprise that Microsoft applied its vast market power to become one of the most notorious sources of FUD and vaporware.

    Innovations in Vaporware
    Previous articles have considered Microsoft's vaporware attacks on QuickTime and the Newton and PenPoint OS.

    While many companies in the competitive tech field announced products they were ultimately unable to deliver, Microsoft applied an innovative, two handed approach to playing the vaporware game.

    Rather than just bluffing its hand like other companies, Microsoft played the game with a set of cards in one hand, while waving the illusion of another set of cards in the other hand. The fake set of cards were highly distracting because they looked like a much better hand than anyone else could possibly have.

    Standing around the card table were a number of analysts who all expressed how impressed they were by the cards Microsoft waved in the air, and made regular remarks about how foolish it would be for anyone else to stay in the game. The worst part was that many of those analysts could see Microsoft's real hand, and knew the company was bluffing.

    Microsoft's NT Plans Prior to Cairo
    In 1991, Apple was releasing the Mac System 7 and Tim Berners-Lee was using his NeXT to build the world's first web server and browser.

    PCs were still using the character based DOS in a slightly faster version than was released a decade earlier in 1981, although Windows 3.0 was beginning to provide DOS PC users with a rough approximation of Apple's graphical desktop.

    After witnessing sales of Windows 3.0 take off, Microsoft began its schism with IBM over OS/2 3.0 development. Microsoft's new plan involved an entirely new operating system based on its contributions to OS/2; the new OS was referred to as Windows NT.

    Unlike the existing DOS based Windows 3.0, NT aimed at being entirely new and modern in every respect, untied to DOS or to the existing x86 PC architecture.

    Microsoft initially targeted NT to run on the i860, Intel's new 64-bit RISC processor that was supposed to usher in the future. The i860 was a modern design and carried none of the legacy baggage of the standard x86 based PC.

    It included graphics acceleration features similar in principle to the forthcoming PowerPC Altivec and Pentium MMX; those features resulted in the i860 being used by NeXT to power its high end NeXTDimension video card.

    Unfortunately, the i860 didn't work out for Microsoft. All that remained from its efforts to build a new operating system based on the processor was the i860's code name: N10, which is widely repeated to be the meaning of NT. Of course, Microsoft and IBM had also long referred to OS/2 3.0 as "NT," for new technology, so the idea behind the i860 as the source of NT's name might be historical revisionism.

    No Operating System Experience
    Microsoft struggled with the complex reality of building its own operating system without IBM. Up to that point, Microsoft had only been delivering tepid updates to MS-DOS, which it had licensed from a small

  8. Very Nice Link... by bigdavesmith · · Score: 5, Funny

    The Borg Cube bearing the Microsoft logo, destroying Earth, with flames reaching up from off-frame image just screams professionalism. I will take anything this site says very seriously.

  9. Damn, that was crap by perrin · · Score: 3, Informative

    Please give me back the 10 minutes reading that article took me. I am by no means a historian of the computing era, but I lived through those years reading computer magazines and programming the things, so I have no problem seeing bullshit presented as history when I encounter it. That guy is such a flaming Apple apologist, he can't even get his head around the fact that despite all its short-comings, win32 had pre-emptive multithreading and protected memory for all of eight years (1993 vs 2001) before Apple got out a consumer OS with the same. Apple nearly died waiting for its vapourware before it bought NeXT. And Microsoft got into that game late, too, and I mean really late. It was implemented in Unix and other systems in the 1970s. He forgot to mention Windows 3.1, which was one of the most important Windows releases ever, because it proved to the world that Windows could succeed. WordPerfect thought it couldn't, and died. Most sat on the fence for Windows 3.0, because while it was pretty, it was horribly unstable and lacking in essential OS features.

  10. Re:Ok, I'll bite. by johnw · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What did Windows 95 actually add? W95 actually followed on from W3.1 rather than W3.0. The main feature which it added (and the thing which drove Microsoft to release it) was incompatibility with OS/2. Because IBM had licensed access to the W3.1 source they were able to achieve first-rate compatibility for OS/2 running W3.1 programs, plus much better stability, multi-tasking etc. A crashing W3.1 program running on OS/2 simply took itself out rather than the whole system. Microsoft saw themselves potentially losing market share in a big way, so rushed W95 out.

    This has always been the way with Microsoft. They'll happily deny there's anything wrong with a product, no matter how much evidence exists that there is. The *only* thing that will move them to act is the prospect of losing market share to a better product.
  11. Re:How else do you get a message out? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Informative

    Besides, using the term "SPAM" is inaccurate: what is the commercial benefit of his links?

    Why do you think SPAM implies commercial benefit? One of the earliest spammers was an 'evanglist' - sending out generic jesus-freak messages.

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  12. Re:Ok, I'll bite. by cnettel · · Score: 4, Informative
    Win32 is not to Win16 what Win64 is to Win32. Win64 is a recompile, with a few typedefs changed and a few further changes where they were really needed.

    Win32 contained lots of changes compared to Win16. Threads, overlapping I/O, lots of new controls, additions to GDI, long file names, pipes for IPC. It might seem like a joke, but access violations really had a greater chance of not taking the full machine down in Win95, versus Win 3.1.

    And of course, a full driver model for all devices, with the Registry (yuck) to track the config. Yep, you could do anything in a VXD in 3.1, but there was no real structure to it. 32 bit disk I/O wasn't present in the original 3.1 either, so the difference is greater if we compare 3.1 versus 95, or the very last releases of 3.11 WfW versus 95.

  13. Re:Perfect Timing by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative
    NeXT was the company Steve Jobs founded after he left Apple. Their aim was to build the perfect computer, and many people believe they succeeded. Most who don't will concede that they came as close as was possible with the hardware of the time.

    Some of their achievements include:

    • An OS with a driver framework written in a dynamic, object-oriented language (Objective-C), making it very easy to write drivers for.
    • The first Rapid Application Development system.
    • The first web browser was written on one of their systems.
    • A very powerful and flexible web development environment.
    • EOF, a transparent object-relational mapping a decade or so before Ruby-on-Rails made the idea popular.
    And lots of others. In the early '90s, they worked with Sun to create a standard to sit on top of POSIX and provide a portable way of writing GUI programs. Sun eventually dropped it, but the GNU project has an implementation, and it's the standard way of developing software on OS X (the latest version of the NeXT operating system, renamed after Apple bought NeXT).
    --
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  14. Re:Ok, I'll bite. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative
    Win32s was available for Windows 3.1. It exposed some win32 APIs to win16 developers, but not all of them. From the Wikipedia page:

    Although ostensibly compatible with early versions of Windows NT, many functions were not implemented including threading and asynchronous I/O, newer serial port functions and many GDI extensions. This essentially limits it to applications specifically designed for the platform.
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  15. Bull... Once more for those who skipped class by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Being a monopoly is NOT illegal. It is leveraging the monopoly in an anti-competitive manner that is illegal.

    Items 1, 2 and 4 on your list are just good business sense. Monopoly or not.

    But "3. Working with third parties to offer incentives to provide your product solely." is illegal. If you leave off the word "solely" its ok, but when your "incentives" come off like strong-arm bullying, and the "solely" provision is the primary objective, that is anti-competitive. That is also what Microsoft was (repeatedly) found guilty of.

    And from what I've seen and heard of Vista, application of the other three items is questionable.

    1. Re:Bull... Once more for those who skipped class by DECS · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually exclusive deals are not illegal, and maintaining a monopoly often is.

      Try googling news for "exclusive deal," and tell me how many of those are illegal. There are lots of examples of exclusive business deals.

      However, while monopolies are allowed in specific areas where it is determined that competition would create more problems that it would solve, the existance of legal monopolies (for cable, power utilitites, water) generally overlap into areas often supplied by the government (municipal transportation, power, water), not competitive industries.

      In competitive industires, monopolies are generally illegal. When Lowes Theaters bought AMC Theaters, it was forced by the state of California to divest itself of certain theaters so that it wouldn't own the majority of outlets in certain markets. That happened despite the fact that AMC/Lowes didn't even own all the theaters and had significant competition.

      Microsoft's monopoly in operating systems was defined as a monopoly in the court, and found to be abusive in the narrow portion of evidence that was actually considered. Significant efforts were presented to solve that illegal monopoly and abuseive use, but then the current administration swung into power and dismissed any and all action.

      So no, despite the rule of law being uninforced in America, monopolies are not generally "legal" just because an anonymous coward says they are. That's a myth. The US has a long history of breaking up monopolies and companies that exercise undo influence over markets. In other countries, including Europe and Asia, monoploy control is more common and not always illegal. Massive conglomerations are typical in Japan and Germany, but were always frowned upon in the US, back when the rule of law was enforced.

      Illegal monopolies are not legal any more than illegal wars are legal. Just because something is allowed by a kowtowed populace and an uncritical press does not mean that the law does not exist or that it will never be enforced. Just wait until the red states have a moment to consider how much money they have lost! Once that happens, the US is sure to have a revolution of sorts and elect an administration more interested in enforcing the laws than in distractions of jews, flag burning, gay marrage & all the problems caused by minories.

    2. Re:Bull... Once more for those who skipped class by DECS · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm glad you like my site.

      However, as in the example I gave, antitrust policy is the way the US works. GE, GM, and General Mills might be big companies, but they are not conglomerates on the scale of German and Japanese companies, where mega umbrella companies enter and control multiple markets. As a sloppy example, Mitsubishi does everything from banking to heavy industry, oil, real estate, steel, cars, ag, beer, logistics, insurance, and it even cans tuna.

      No American groups can do that because of different economic policies on competition. In the US, there are laws preventing companies from dominating industries and distorting competition, let alone owning multiple industries. The US similarly has had far less support for nationalized utilities.

      The US government always investigates mergers and acquisitions to make sure that comeptition won't be distorted as companies converge. Back when Aldus and Adobe became Adobe, the company had to divest itself of Aldus Freehand (because it also had Adobe Illustrator); It sold it off to Macromedia.

      Things have changed. When Adobe bought Macromedia, it stripped the software world of far more competition, but no action was taken. Adobe didn't have to get rid of Macromedia Freehand for Adobe Illustrator this time around, nor did it have to allow Dreamweaver and GoLive to remain in competition, and any of a number of other examples. The difference is a change in politics and economic thought.

      Despite that shift, monopolies are only allowed where competition is unlikely to benefit consumers. Newspapers in a city are often allowed to join in non-competitive joint contracts to fix prices on advertising, keeping ad prices artificially high in order for newspapers to cheat off obsolescence. But that doesn't mean its legal for gas stations to collude on price fixing too.

      Making blanked statements that "monopolies are legal as long as they're not hurting anyone" is similarly misinformed, particularly under the rather arrogant title "Bull... Once more for those who skipped class," so I had to jump on it.

      I'm a sucker for arguing against anonymous cowards I guess.

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