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Vista vs. Cairo - A Microsoft History Lesson

avocade writes "Here is a nice history lesson by (the unfortunately infamous) Daniel Eran, arguing why the Longhorn/Vista road is very similar to the NT/Cairo road that Microsoft took in the 90's, effectively trying their best to discourage competition in the marketplace."

42 of 194 comments (clear)

  1. Cairo vs NT/Cairo by DreadSpoon · · Score: 4, Informative

    This article has a confusing title, given that dominance of the Cairo graphics library these days.

    1. Re:Cairo vs NT/Cairo by 6Yankee · · Score: 5, Funny

      Even more confusing when you read it as "Vista vs. Casio", and look forward to a story about a digital watch being forced to run Vista and bursting into flames :(

  2. Infamous indeed - spammer by mccalli · · Score: 5, Informative

    Daniel Eran has been spamming uk.comp.sys.mac for weeks now, ignoring every polite request for him to stop. He shows no sign of engaging with the group (beyond calling us "a hateful bunch of queens"), just spams links to his blog against charter and then swans off again.

    Daniel Eran. Just Say No.

    Cheers,
    Ian

    1. Re:Infamous indeed - spammer by cloricus · · Score: 4, Funny

      We don't have to; His server is already slashdotted!
       
      Maybe he is still running an early 90s NT server?

      --
      I ate your fish.
    2. Re:Infamous indeed - spammer by cpct0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hmm, I don't want to sound any less stupid than I really am, but other than people using some signature on their Usenet mails, anyone can really make themselves appear to be anyone else on Usenet don't they? I've known these kinds in *cough* less respectable places, where they would get annoyed by the group, then suddenly prove they got no life and spam the heck out of the place with semi-plausible stuff, named against the member that pissed them off or simply ripping out the place.

      Not making an apology, just saying it's a possibility. Then I haven't followed the drama there, so can't tell. I find his articles well written, with an obvious agenda, and repeatingly hitting the nail until we're tired of hearing about that point of view in long rants on nearly the same topic. Interesting point of view. I just wonder what that guy does because he surely got a lot of spare time since ... well ... forever ;)

    3. Re:Infamous indeed - spammer by davecarlotub · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There are 15 messages from DanielEran in uk.comp.sys.mac since November 12th. They are indeed blog link posts, but hardly a FLOOD.

    4. Re:Infamous indeed - spammer by mccalli · · Score: 2, Informative

      How do you know it is Mr. Eran posting those messages?

      Because he states he is, has stated he is in replies and has taken part in email conversations with members of the group - see this thread for more details.

      Cheers,
      Ian

  3. Perfect Timing by Joebert · · Score: 2, Funny

    I shit you not, I was listening to the Wizard Of Oz on TV in the background when I opened this story.
    Coincidence ?
    I think not.


    On a serious note, if it worked before, why do anything different ?
    Are you trying to tell me that Microsoft doesn't have all the money ?

    --
    Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
    1. Re:Perfect Timing by FrankNFurter · · Score: 2, Informative

      Damn, I need to preview my posts.

      They were NeXT.

      --
      "Slashdot - the one place on the internet where guys brag about how small it is." - that IT girl
    2. Re:Perfect Timing by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative
      NeXT was the company Steve Jobs founded after he left Apple. Their aim was to build the perfect computer, and many people believe they succeeded. Most who don't will concede that they came as close as was possible with the hardware of the time.

      Some of their achievements include:

      • An OS with a driver framework written in a dynamic, object-oriented language (Objective-C), making it very easy to write drivers for.
      • The first Rapid Application Development system.
      • The first web browser was written on one of their systems.
      • A very powerful and flexible web development environment.
      • EOF, a transparent object-relational mapping a decade or so before Ruby-on-Rails made the idea popular.
      And lots of others. In the early '90s, they worked with Sun to create a standard to sit on top of POSIX and provide a portable way of writing GUI programs. Sun eventually dropped it, but the GNU project has an implementation, and it's the standard way of developing software on OS X (the latest version of the NeXT operating system, renamed after Apple bought NeXT).
      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:Perfect Timing by DECS · · Score: 2, Interesting

      NeXT offered the world an open standard for a graphical Unix powered by object oriented frameworks called OpenStep.

      Sun and HP signed up to deliver OpenStep compliant, interoperable implementations for their operating sytems (Solaris and HP/UX) and GNU started work on GNUStep.

      The competition was Cairo (Microsoft's vaporware that never materialized) and Taligent (IBM & Apple's vaporware that never materialized).

      Despite being futuristic technology, open, and free, it was dumped upon by its own backers. Sun dumped NeXT for Java hype, and HP joined Taligent just prior to its failing, leaving a void that Microsoft could fill with nothing special.

      Apple bought NeXT and repurposed its technology to build Mac OS X. Nobody says much about Taligent or JavaStations anymore, and Vista is struggling to look like Mac OS X. I guess you could say the whole desktop world fumbled the ball, and Apple happened to be in the right place at the right time to grab the ball and run with it.

      The Secrets of Pink, Taligent, Copland (and OpenStep)

  4. I discourage competition all the time... by dada21 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's part of competing -- to give your customers EVERY reason to pick you over someone else. Any good business does it by:

    1. Providing a product that meets the current needs of their customers.
    2. Providing a path to new features/efficiencies for their customers' futures.
    3. Working with third parties to offer incentives to provide your product solely.
    4. Providing a proven ROI for a short-term and long-term focus.

    Microsoft, to me, is not a monopoly -- except when the State is involved (providing patents and copyrights and trademarks). I'm against those monopoly provisions, but those are "legal" ones. Without them, Microsoft's power over competitors would be equalized. You can't blame Microsoft for taking advantage of what you, the voters, allowed them to utilize. The judgements against them calling them a monopoly are only there because you, the voters, let those policies become standard based on Microsoft's given legal priviledge over competition. Nothing prevents competition from doing what Microsoft does -- except than the competition would rather use THEIR monkeys in government to try to stem Microsoft's growth.

    As we see in the relatively free and unencumbered market of the web, Microsoft doesn't have any sort of monopoly -- people are free to choose what they want, and they do. In fact, the long tail effect shows that many products openly compete with Microsoft -- both legally obtained products and illegally obtained ones.

    The whole Vista issue is a non-issue. Everyone who cries foul against Microsoft refuses to see that the products they prefer just don't meet the top 4 items I listed -- in fact, some of them fail most or all of them. No one will invest in a product, even a free one, if it doesn't offer those items. Many Microsoft products do -- but not all of them. Vista will succeed only because consultants will like its standardization, manufacturers will like knowing there is a standard interface for their hardware/software to run on, and resellers will like it because it has always worked well enough for both the casual and the power user.

    Who cares about it looking like past products? If it worked for Microsoft in the past, why wouldn't they follow through with similar performances -- and making new ones to try to produce a better selling product?

  5. WTF by Timesprout · · Score: 3, Informative

    Article rambles all over the place, seems more to be pleading for reader to look at previous articles by author rather than make its higly convoluted point. Reads like a lot of sour grapes about historical irrelevance so I assume the author is just looking for hits by trying to be inflamatory.

    --
    Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
    What truth?
    There is no dupe
  6. NT by DrSkwid · · Score: 4, Interesting

    NT stand for Nested Task, it's a register in the 286 that helps preepmtive multi-tasking which is the feature of both OS/2 and NT that distinguishes them from Window 3.x/9x that used co-operative multi-tasking.

    http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2006/readings/i386 /s04_01.htm

    4.1.1 Systems Flags
    The systems flags of the EFLAGS register control I/O, maskable interrupts, debugging, task switching, and enabling of virtual 8086 execution in a protected, multitasking environment. These flags are highlighted in Figure 4-1 .

    NT (Nested Task, bit 14)
            The processor uses the nested task flag to control chaining of interrupted and called tasks. NT influences the operation of the IRET instruction .

    --
    There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    1. Re:NT by MLopat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      NT as in Windows NT has always stood for "New Technology". In fact, the operating system at one time was simply going to be branded "NT" except that Northern Telecom (Nortel) had something to say about it.

    2. Re:NT by pla · · Score: 4, Interesting

      NT stand for Nested Task

      Or, officially, "New Technology".

      Or, the most likely of all, by analogy to IBM -> HAL (as in, HAL-9000 from the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey), VMS -> W(indows)NT. I would normally consider that a cute coincidence, if they didn't share Dave Cutler as a lead designer on both projects.

      But given that he did help design both OSs, and the propensity for geeks to come up with bizarrely convoluted acronyms, I'd call that the "right" answer as to the origins of the name "NT".

    3. Re:NT by diegocgteleline.es · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Sight. This topic. Again.

      Just check the Windows NT wikipedia page, which links at page, where you can find this quote from one of the original NT creators:

      "We checked the first code pieces in around mid-December 1988," Lucovsky said, "and had a very basic system kind of booting on a simulator of the Intel i860 (which was codenamed "N-Ten") by January." In fact, this is where NT actually got its name, Lucovsky revealed, adding that the "new technology" moniker was added after the fact in a rare spurt of product marketing by the original NT team members. "Originally, we were targeting NT to the Intel i860, a RISC processor that was horribly behind schedule. Because we didn't have any i860 machines in-house to test on, we used an i860 simulator. That's why we called it NT, because it worked on the 'N-Ten.'"

      So please, stop all those theories, the origins of the name are well documented.

  7. Re:How else do you get a message out? by mccalli · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If an individual has a message they feel is important that they want to get out, I don't see an issue with posting a reference or two. Flooding a board is another story.

    ...and flooding is what's taking place. Yes, a post such as "here's a new and interesting Apple-related blog, please come and have a look" would have gone down fine. Instead we get every single article he writes for this blog being dumped as a rhetorical question into a group which specifically forbids advertising, and then he never engages in any discussion regarding it. The regulars of the group have all asked him to stop. He just totally disregards us.

    Besides, using the term "SPAM" is inaccurate: what is the commercial benefit of his links?

    Advertising revenue. He's abusing a community discussion group to take every opportunity to dump links to his advert revenue-driven blog. The group does not exist for his enrichment, as we say on there: uk.comp.sys.mac.adverts is thataway -->.

    Cheers,
    Ian

  8. Better Windows history here... by Aphrika · · Score: 5, Informative

    Wikipedia - generally a little more authoritative than a (rather opinionated and flawed) blog entry.

    Incidentally, I distinctly remember Cairo not being vaporware or a hoax as stated in the article, there were certainly dodgy builds of it floating around before it was canned and NT 4.0 appeared as a Win95-ified NT 3.51 replacement. The idea that Cairo was a hoax in a non-starter. That's like saying Copland was a hoax, no, sometimes projects get shelved because they're not working out - OS design is an area of computing where it's incredibly easy to be idealogical about features, then figure out that you just can't deliver the goods.

    1. Re:Better Windows history here... by SmurfButcher+Bob · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, I'd suggest that you missed the author's point, entirely. Perhaps it is due to you not being in the position to buy the various products at the time, I don't know.

      Here's the perspective. It has zero to do with "15 years later, we have a feature". It has *everything* to do with, "15 years ago, when we needed a solution, Microsoft said they would provide it in a TIMELY fashion." As a result, purchase decisions were directly impacted.

      We needed a mutlitasking OS to replace a DG Mini. Windows 1.0 was reputed to provide this functionality.
      We called them. "Multi tasking?" "Yes." "Multiple users?" "Absolutely."
      We bought it.
      They lied.
      We called them back.
      "The sales engineer was confused with the next version." End Quote.

      The project was shelved.
      CDOS, released by a company named "Digital Research", became viable.
      The project was rehashed, but Windows 2.0 was out. It's DOS support had few caveats, compared to CDOS.
      We called Microsoft.
      "Multitasking?"
      "Yep!"
      "You said the other one was. It wasn't."
      "We've totally rewritten it. It works for real."
      "Multi user?"

      We bought it.
      They lied.
      We called them back.
      "It doesn't work."
      "No? The NEXT one will, and it's due soon."

      See the pattern yet?
      We eventually bought CDOS (and later, CCDOS, a value-add version).

      We also bought Win30. Hazard a guess why?
      They lied, again.
      We also bought Win31. THAT one was initially stated to be preemptive, remember? And the sales pigs all claimed it was, when it was time to sign the check. Perhaps you've forgotten the RAGING DEBATES over that very issue, at the time... "Preemptive!" "No, it isn't!" "Yes, it is!" "No, it isn't!"

      Our project was fairly simple - run a couple of DOS boxes, and redirect STDIO to a serial port so that two people could run a program. This specific detail was explained to "Microsoft", EACH TIME.

      Every time... EVERY time... the MS tactic was to stall our purchase of a competing, fully viable product, via the gross misrepresentation of their own.

      The MS philosophy is, and has been, that it is better to ship an "empty box" on-time than to ship a working product a day late.
      And they have done so, and I have the disks to prove it - Excel's initial "DMF" floppy distribution, who's lzexpand didn't comprehend DMF... they literally put the "standard" Win31 lzex onto disk 1. Funny, it's LZEx that needs to READ these FATless disks. It couldn't POSSIBLY work. But, the version they needed wasn't read yet, so... ship it! ...To NT BO4.5, which contained such setup.ini script error gems such as "Syntax error line xxx: ***REMEMBER TO FINISH SQL INSTALL SCRIPT". I'm NOT joking. And, you don't know the half of the extent of this.

      Clearly, two "top tier" products at the time, and the installations not even been tested. Not once. NOT ONCE. And, the devs KNEW the crap wasn't finished. The Mgt KNEW the crap wasn't finished. Both cases, which were a year apart... the "official" MS reason for issuing new disks to me?

      "Media Defect". Again, I am NOT joking. Both cases, no matter how hard I argued, the call takers flat out REFUSED to admit the actual flaw. "No, the media is perfect. The setups are WRONG. Syntax errors... referencing a directory path that doesn't exist on the CD... trivial little things like that..."

      Because, you know, the standalone install disk for Exchange had the base directory in the root. On BO4.5, the base setup was a subdirectory. And the scripts hadn't been adapted for it.

      Trivial, little things. Right? Or, an omnipresent pattern, that just keeps on recurring.

      The point of the article is exactly correct; promise vaporware as a solution NOW, to prevent or stall the purchase of an existing solution, NOW. That they *might* actually deliver the vapor in five years? Irrelevent; I am NOT going to buy a "viable" solution today, when "nervana" is coming next week. I will wait, so that I can assess. Or worse, if the "vapor" is claimed to now exist,

      --

      help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am

  9. Re:How else do you get a message out? by johnw · · Score: 2, Informative

    Besides, using the term "SPAM" is inaccurate: what is the commercial benefit of his links? Nothing in the definition of Spam requires it to be commercial in nature. The term originated on Usenet and referred to the constant repetition of a message - as in the Monty Python Spam sketch. For a long time a distinction was made between Spam (repeated messages) and UCE (Unsolicited Commercial E-mail). Alas, such a distinction is too subtle for your average journalist to comprehend so now the one term is used for both.
  10. This article is barely coherent by defile · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Factual errors aside, I think he's trying to say:

    Microsoft announced it had big things in development, didn't quite release all of the things they announced. This is fraud. Microsoft bad. They did it on purpose, by design. We're onto you guys, you won't fool us with Vista!

    He references The Mythical Man-Month as if this would give him some kind of software development street cred. I don't buy it, mainly because he doesn't seem to have ever been involved with any software development project.

    Many software projects start with ambitious and optimistic sets of features. And by many, I mean all. The bigger the project, the more ambitious the scope. "Yeah! Our next generation Operating System is going to have an OBJECT FILE SYSTEM and DISTRIBUTED COMPONENTS and JUST IN TIME COMPILATION and ADAPTIVE HEALING and ADVANCED AI COMMAND INTERFACE and VOICE RECOGNITION. The future is NOW! We're awesome!" Developers believe the hype and do a lot to generate it. And if they believe it, and they're implementing the fucking thing, what chance do marketers have of looking at it critically? None. So they tow the line.

    Result? The ambitious wildly impractical story is impossible to keep quiet. Sure, you can certainly fault companies for announcing features well before they're release candidate quality, but ambitious features getting cut because project deadlines are slipping happens all the time. Aside from the bad press that's generated from missing your release date, and the investment you blew developing features which don't get commercialized, there aren't many other downsides. If you can afford it, who cares?

    I can totally imagine cutting these features if I were the project manager and we missed our release date; the decision process would go something like this: what is the most expensive feature we're developing right now that has the lowest return on investment that if we cut, would allow us to release much earlier? "Object filesystem" probably makes the top of everyone's list. It gets cut it in a heartbeat. What, was marketing hyping the shit out of it this whole time? I hadn't noticed, because I haven't left my cubicle in 36 months. Tough it out, marketing clowns.

  11. Text of TFA - Slashdotted by soulsteal · · Score: 3

    1990-1995: Microsoft's Yellow Road to Cairo
    Along with Ashton-Tate and Lotus Development, Microsoft was considered one of the Big Three software developers of the 80s. Apple courted all three to develop software for its new Macintosh.

    Ashton-Tate managed to run itself out of business, and Lotus was eventually bought up by IBM in 1995, leaving Microsoft as one of the largest and most influential developers of desktop applications.

    Microsoft's position as a vendor for both DOS and office applications gave it certain advantages over its rivals, particularly when Windows 95 appeared and obsolesced not just previous versions of DOS and Windows, but also competing developers' existing applications, including DOS standards WordPerfect and Lotus 1-2-3.

    Rapid advancements in technology created a wildly chaotic market, where simple announcements of future plans could trump real products. Given the prevalence of misinformation wars in the tech industry, it's no surprise that Microsoft applied its vast market power to become one of the most notorious sources of FUD and vaporware.

    Innovations in Vaporware
    Previous articles have considered Microsoft's vaporware attacks on QuickTime and the Newton and PenPoint OS.

    While many companies in the competitive tech field announced products they were ultimately unable to deliver, Microsoft applied an innovative, two handed approach to playing the vaporware game.

    Rather than just bluffing its hand like other companies, Microsoft played the game with a set of cards in one hand, while waving the illusion of another set of cards in the other hand. The fake set of cards were highly distracting because they looked like a much better hand than anyone else could possibly have.

    Standing around the card table were a number of analysts who all expressed how impressed they were by the cards Microsoft waved in the air, and made regular remarks about how foolish it would be for anyone else to stay in the game. The worst part was that many of those analysts could see Microsoft's real hand, and knew the company was bluffing.

    Microsoft's NT Plans Prior to Cairo
    In 1991, Apple was releasing the Mac System 7 and Tim Berners-Lee was using his NeXT to build the world's first web server and browser.

    PCs were still using the character based DOS in a slightly faster version than was released a decade earlier in 1981, although Windows 3.0 was beginning to provide DOS PC users with a rough approximation of Apple's graphical desktop.

    After witnessing sales of Windows 3.0 take off, Microsoft began its schism with IBM over OS/2 3.0 development. Microsoft's new plan involved an entirely new operating system based on its contributions to OS/2; the new OS was referred to as Windows NT.

    Unlike the existing DOS based Windows 3.0, NT aimed at being entirely new and modern in every respect, untied to DOS or to the existing x86 PC architecture.

    Microsoft initially targeted NT to run on the i860, Intel's new 64-bit RISC processor that was supposed to usher in the future. The i860 was a modern design and carried none of the legacy baggage of the standard x86 based PC.

    It included graphics acceleration features similar in principle to the forthcoming PowerPC Altivec and Pentium MMX; those features resulted in the i860 being used by NeXT to power its high end NeXTDimension video card.

    Unfortunately, the i860 didn't work out for Microsoft. All that remained from its efforts to build a new operating system based on the processor was the i860's code name: N10, which is widely repeated to be the meaning of NT. Of course, Microsoft and IBM had also long referred to OS/2 3.0 as "NT," for new technology, so the idea behind the i860 as the source of NT's name might be historical revisionism.

    No Operating System Experience
    Microsoft struggled with the complex reality of building its own operating system without IBM. Up to that point, Microsoft had only been delivering tepid updates to MS-DOS, which it had licensed from a small

  12. Ok, I'll bite. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What did Windows 95 actually add? The only thing I can think of is Win32, but really, even Microsoft seems to be admitting this isn't a lot -- they are giving away free upgrades to XP 64-bit to anyone with a legit 32-bit copy of XP Pro.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    1. Re:Ok, I'll bite. by johnw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What did Windows 95 actually add? W95 actually followed on from W3.1 rather than W3.0. The main feature which it added (and the thing which drove Microsoft to release it) was incompatibility with OS/2. Because IBM had licensed access to the W3.1 source they were able to achieve first-rate compatibility for OS/2 running W3.1 programs, plus much better stability, multi-tasking etc. A crashing W3.1 program running on OS/2 simply took itself out rather than the whole system. Microsoft saw themselves potentially losing market share in a big way, so rushed W95 out.

      This has always been the way with Microsoft. They'll happily deny there's anything wrong with a product, no matter how much evidence exists that there is. The *only* thing that will move them to act is the prospect of losing market share to a better product.
    2. Re:Ok, I'll bite. by cnettel · · Score: 4, Informative
      Win32 is not to Win16 what Win64 is to Win32. Win64 is a recompile, with a few typedefs changed and a few further changes where they were really needed.

      Win32 contained lots of changes compared to Win16. Threads, overlapping I/O, lots of new controls, additions to GDI, long file names, pipes for IPC. It might seem like a joke, but access violations really had a greater chance of not taking the full machine down in Win95, versus Win 3.1.

      And of course, a full driver model for all devices, with the Registry (yuck) to track the config. Yep, you could do anything in a VXD in 3.1, but there was no real structure to it. 32 bit disk I/O wasn't present in the original 3.1 either, so the difference is greater if we compare 3.1 versus 95, or the very last releases of 3.11 WfW versus 95.

    3. Re:Ok, I'll bite. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative
      Win32s was available for Windows 3.1. It exposed some win32 APIs to win16 developers, but not all of them. From the Wikipedia page:

      Although ostensibly compatible with early versions of Windows NT, many functions were not implemented including threading and asynchronous I/O, newer serial port functions and many GDI extensions. This essentially limits it to applications specifically designed for the platform.
      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:Ok, I'll bite. by Bert64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Your thinking of win32s...
      Ofcourse, the win32 API came first in NT3, win32s was the port of it to dos-based windows... Windows 95 was basically 3.11 with win32s bundled in, a new interface and a few other things bundled in by default. And it came bundled with dos instead of having to install it seperately.
      They both still had dos underneath, tho 95 started windows by default whereas 3.1 didn't.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  13. Very Nice Link... by bigdavesmith · · Score: 5, Funny

    The Borg Cube bearing the Microsoft logo, destroying Earth, with flames reaching up from off-frame image just screams professionalism. I will take anything this site says very seriously.

  14. Re:Microsoft lost the war long ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Ya, A high traffic web site vs. the company that runs 90% of personal computers.. They are done for. In other news, the Java platform is posed to take over as the predominant OS.

  15. So? by Robber+Baron · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What Microsoft faces in 2007 is not going to be the lack of OEMs selling Vista for them, but the unraveling of its monopoly position and its ability to mislead the world again with promises of new, next generation technology just around the corner. We know better than that now. So? Tell us something we don't know.
    Microsoft makes operating systems and office/productivity apps, and that's about it; nothing magical or "next generation" about that.
    Don't expect "next generation" and you won't be disappointed.
    BTW Linux is still staring at its own navel...
    --

    You're using her as bait, Master!

  16. Damn, that was crap by perrin · · Score: 3, Informative

    Please give me back the 10 minutes reading that article took me. I am by no means a historian of the computing era, but I lived through those years reading computer magazines and programming the things, so I have no problem seeing bullshit presented as history when I encounter it. That guy is such a flaming Apple apologist, he can't even get his head around the fact that despite all its short-comings, win32 had pre-emptive multithreading and protected memory for all of eight years (1993 vs 2001) before Apple got out a consumer OS with the same. Apple nearly died waiting for its vapourware before it bought NeXT. And Microsoft got into that game late, too, and I mean really late. It was implemented in Unix and other systems in the 1970s. He forgot to mention Windows 3.1, which was one of the most important Windows releases ever, because it proved to the world that Windows could succeed. WordPerfect thought it couldn't, and died. Most sat on the fence for Windows 3.0, because while it was pretty, it was horribly unstable and lacking in essential OS features.

    1. Re:Damn, that was crap by hedrick · · Score: 2, Informative
      >despite all its short-comings, win32 had pre-emptive multithreading and protected memory for all of eight years (1993 vs 2001)
      >before Apple got out a consumer OS with the same.

      Win32 is an API, not an OS. Protected memory is an attribute of the OS, not the API. If we're talking about significant consumer implementations, the first serious implementation of win32 would be Windows 95. (Earlier ones were NT 3.51 and Win32s in Windows 3.1.) That's 1995.

      The Mac equivalent to the win32 API would be Carbon. I agree that the first real protected mode implementation was 2001, with OS X, though I'm not convinced that anything before 10.2 was commercially significant. That's in 2002.

      But that's still a long gap. While some had a different experience, during that gap I remember that every time my Mac staff wanted to show me something, their systems hung. I told them to come see me again when they had a real OS. Of course now they do, and I prefer it to XP/Vista.

    2. Re:Damn, that was crap by drsmithy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Windows NT started from the OS/2 3.0 codebase which was developed jointly by Microsoft and IBM ... so Microsoft cannot receive full credits for it.

      No, Windows NT *was* the OS/2 3.0 (ne: NT) codebase. Microsoft alone worked on OS/2 3.0, although by that time most of the work in OS/2 2.x was IBM's.

      What went on to become OS/2 3.0 was a further development of OS/2 2.x by IBM, *not* the codebase that went on to become Windows NT. Even a cursory examination of their architectures should make it obvious that Windows NT and OS/2 have next to nothing in common.

      IBM were still paying Microsoft royalties for their code in OS/2 *4.0*.

      Windows 9x had pre-emtive multitasking for 32 bit applications, and cooperative multitasking for 16 bit applications, at least theoretically. And everyone here knows that Windows 9x provided real quality, especially Windows Millennium ;)

      Relatively, it was competitive.

      Mac OS Classic sucked, yes, but it was much better than Windows 9x which was replaced by Windows XP in late 2001.

      Er, no. MacOS of the day couldn't hold a candle to Windows 9x in anything except UI (and even that is debatable). Windows NT utterly eclipsed it.

  17. where are the feetures .. by rs232 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Remember they were included in Cairo in some form in 1995. Vaporware as usually described, is announcing something that don't exist in the hope of warding off the opposition from entering the market and also with the full knowlege that such feetures are not implementable in a realistic timeframe. Else why haven't we seen the pre-announced features even now in late 2006.

    "The top level will .. [be] the Cairo desktop itself .. Cairo's Object File System (OFS) makes the whole hard disk a single huge docfile that exposes its internal objects to the user"

    "In Daytona's successor, Cairo, OLE structured storage will be able to attach to, and extend, the file system",

    "Microsoft's future object-oriented file system for Windows NT (see the sidebar "A Peek at OFS"). Ultimately, we could be looking at a distributed file system based on this technology .. Almost all this technology is expected to converge in Cairo"

    "Object File System Lets you create a pseudodirectory that unifies local, network, and Internet files"

    http://www.dynamicobjects.com/d2r/archives/002430. html

    was Re:Better Windows history here...

    --
    davecb5620@gmail.com
  18. Re:How else do you get a message out? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Informative

    Besides, using the term "SPAM" is inaccurate: what is the commercial benefit of his links?

    Why do you think SPAM implies commercial benefit? One of the earliest spammers was an 'evanglist' - sending out generic jesus-freak messages.

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  19. Re:EVERY enemy of MS's is Slashdot's friend by DECS · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If something is factually wrong in the article, why don't you point it out?

    Sounds like you are just dismissing anything that doesn't fit your narrow world view.

  20. Bull... Once more for those who skipped class by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Being a monopoly is NOT illegal. It is leveraging the monopoly in an anti-competitive manner that is illegal.

    Items 1, 2 and 4 on your list are just good business sense. Monopoly or not.

    But "3. Working with third parties to offer incentives to provide your product solely." is illegal. If you leave off the word "solely" its ok, but when your "incentives" come off like strong-arm bullying, and the "solely" provision is the primary objective, that is anti-competitive. That is also what Microsoft was (repeatedly) found guilty of.

    And from what I've seen and heard of Vista, application of the other three items is questionable.

    1. Re:Bull... Once more for those who skipped class by DECS · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually exclusive deals are not illegal, and maintaining a monopoly often is.

      Try googling news for "exclusive deal," and tell me how many of those are illegal. There are lots of examples of exclusive business deals.

      However, while monopolies are allowed in specific areas where it is determined that competition would create more problems that it would solve, the existance of legal monopolies (for cable, power utilitites, water) generally overlap into areas often supplied by the government (municipal transportation, power, water), not competitive industries.

      In competitive industires, monopolies are generally illegal. When Lowes Theaters bought AMC Theaters, it was forced by the state of California to divest itself of certain theaters so that it wouldn't own the majority of outlets in certain markets. That happened despite the fact that AMC/Lowes didn't even own all the theaters and had significant competition.

      Microsoft's monopoly in operating systems was defined as a monopoly in the court, and found to be abusive in the narrow portion of evidence that was actually considered. Significant efforts were presented to solve that illegal monopoly and abuseive use, but then the current administration swung into power and dismissed any and all action.

      So no, despite the rule of law being uninforced in America, monopolies are not generally "legal" just because an anonymous coward says they are. That's a myth. The US has a long history of breaking up monopolies and companies that exercise undo influence over markets. In other countries, including Europe and Asia, monoploy control is more common and not always illegal. Massive conglomerations are typical in Japan and Germany, but were always frowned upon in the US, back when the rule of law was enforced.

      Illegal monopolies are not legal any more than illegal wars are legal. Just because something is allowed by a kowtowed populace and an uncritical press does not mean that the law does not exist or that it will never be enforced. Just wait until the red states have a moment to consider how much money they have lost! Once that happens, the US is sure to have a revolution of sorts and elect an administration more interested in enforcing the laws than in distractions of jews, flag burning, gay marrage & all the problems caused by minories.

    2. Re:Bull... Once more for those who skipped class by GaryPatterson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "So no, despite the rule of law being uninforced in America, monopolies are not generally "legal" just because an anonymous coward says they are. That's a myth. The US has a long history of breaking up monopolies and companies that exercise undo influence over markets. In other countries, including Europe and Asia, monoploy control is more common and not always illegal. Massive conglomerations are typical in Japan and Germany, but were always frowned upon in the US, back when the rule of law was enforced."

      Daniel, I'm generally a fan of your site but you're going off-base with this bit.

      The US gov't only breaks up monopolies that start exerting undue influence because at that point a company crosses the line from benign or natural monopoly (eg power station to a region) to a monopoly that's misusing its power to tie products (eg Windows + IE) or force anti-competitive practices (eg Microsoft + forced Windows licencing on new PCs).

      A monopoly in and of itself isn't bad or strange. They *are* generally legal, until they start breaking the law. Governments across the world will allow a monopoly quite happily for as long as the company acts within the law.

      Massive conglomerations aren't frowned upon in the US any more that the rest of the world, and many of the largest have their home in the US (such as GE). They're not at all bad, until they start breaking local laws.

    3. Re:Bull... Once more for those who skipped class by DECS · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm glad you like my site.

      However, as in the example I gave, antitrust policy is the way the US works. GE, GM, and General Mills might be big companies, but they are not conglomerates on the scale of German and Japanese companies, where mega umbrella companies enter and control multiple markets. As a sloppy example, Mitsubishi does everything from banking to heavy industry, oil, real estate, steel, cars, ag, beer, logistics, insurance, and it even cans tuna.

      No American groups can do that because of different economic policies on competition. In the US, there are laws preventing companies from dominating industries and distorting competition, let alone owning multiple industries. The US similarly has had far less support for nationalized utilities.

      The US government always investigates mergers and acquisitions to make sure that comeptition won't be distorted as companies converge. Back when Aldus and Adobe became Adobe, the company had to divest itself of Aldus Freehand (because it also had Adobe Illustrator); It sold it off to Macromedia.

      Things have changed. When Adobe bought Macromedia, it stripped the software world of far more competition, but no action was taken. Adobe didn't have to get rid of Macromedia Freehand for Adobe Illustrator this time around, nor did it have to allow Dreamweaver and GoLive to remain in competition, and any of a number of other examples. The difference is a change in politics and economic thought.

      Despite that shift, monopolies are only allowed where competition is unlikely to benefit consumers. Newspapers in a city are often allowed to join in non-competitive joint contracts to fix prices on advertising, keeping ad prices artificially high in order for newspapers to cheat off obsolescence. But that doesn't mean its legal for gas stations to collude on price fixing too.

      Making blanked statements that "monopolies are legal as long as they're not hurting anyone" is similarly misinformed, particularly under the rather arrogant title "Bull... Once more for those who skipped class," so I had to jump on it.

      I'm a sucker for arguing against anonymous cowards I guess.

      Why Microsoft Can't Compete With iTunes

  21. Credibility is Questionable by PixieDust · · Score: 2, Interesting
    From just these two statements:

    Windows 3.0 gets polished and becomes Windows 95? hardly, as these two Operating Systems are vastly different, with their only real similarity being they both run on top of DOS.

    Windows XP gets polished and becomes Windows Vista? Again, hardly, as again they are VERY different. XP And Vista are much closer than 3.1/95, but they're still worlds apart. Feature sets are very different, capabilities are very different, overall user experience is VASTLY different, and checking things out under the hood a lot has changed, and it's kind of interesting to see just how much. Yes a lot of features were unfortunately dropped, but there is still a lot here to chew on.

    I saw earlier a comment saying the blogger is a spammer. Somehow, that wouldn't surprise me. It's an MS flame article though. Can we mod front page articles -1 flamebait? ;-)