Slashdot Mirror
Zune Sales Continue to Weaken
Dak RIT writes "Market share data for the first month of Microsoft's Zune sales is now available, and appears to confirm that after the initial hype, sales have fallen off dramatically. Microsoft came in fourth for sales during the month of November with only 1.9% of the market. Apple remained unchanged at 62.2%, and SanDisk even managed to increase to 18.4% (looks like the Zune might not even be able to compete with the rest of the market, let alone the iPod). The one surprise though is that the brown Zune is apparently not only being bought, but more popular than the white model."
I'm just holding out for the yellow model...
This guy's the limit!
The zune is a particularly clear exmaple of this.
However i suspect the ipod has simply hit that monopoly status like Windows in which even if the competitors were good (or better) their chances of making inroads against the market leader are severly limited.
i personaly think the ipod is best of breed, but even still one has to wonder.
--Idiots, Every single one of YOU, A flaming mass of conglomerated morons, hey wait a second, isnt that how RAID works?
Why is it that companies feel they need to conquer every aspect of every market? MS should have left portable music alone.
(Cue the naive laissez-faire capitalists who think that this competition will create magic in the music industry)
I (and others) looking for proper use of wifi, have already bought an Archos (604Wifi). Opera browser, network share browsing, etc. Squirting? Please. It's more expensive, but a far superior product at this point.
The Zune is out on display in best buy stores. It has one stand. The video it is showing is grainy and because of the strip lights its hard to see.
Compare and contrast with the iPod Nano - there is only one nano display, but there are about a million Nano's out for people to play with because they are being used as part of demo sets for speakers, headphones, in car entertainment systems, kids toys. There are just a lot more units for people to get their hands on and try out - at this point. I imagine things will be a little bit different when Best Buy has a whole aisle for nothing but Zune protective cases, like the do for iPods right now.
Beep beep.
Proof indeed that people are dim. Bless their little hearts!
What else could you give as a gag at all these White Elephant office parties?
Footer Ads.
I bought a Zune to use as a big screen TV. I had to make my own wall mount, but it was worth it. I measured the screen and it is nearly the same size as 42" monitors going for several thousand dollars.
In all seriousness, I was a bit perked by the Zune until I saw how big it actually was. I'm certainly no Microsoft fan boy, but what the heck were they thinking?
More
I'll be more interested to see how the Zune does after a period of say, six months to a fiscal year. I can't say I'd be surprised one way or the other, but IMHO a month or two of sales data isn't enough for me to see whether a product is effective or not. How does this compare to Ipod's sales its first month?
Quiz: True or False -- On a scale of 1 to 10, what is your middle name?
The Zune gives you the ability to share music with another Zune owner. Of course, you first need to meet one.
You have to wonder what these numbers are really showing. It reads like it's compared to all sizes of mp3 players, from little 256mb flash drives to the 80GB iPod video. I would like to see how it compares to comparable players, instead of overall. Still these numbers are surprising, it's a medium sized player at a good price with a lot of marketing behind it.
"what does an IPOD have (other than after market accessories) that the Zune does not?"
Third party software support.
Support for Mac, Windows 2000 and Vista.
Less restrictive DRM.
Ability to hook it into most cars and display track info on the dashboard.
Better resale.
The Zune might make sense at $130. But of course, then it would compete with the Sansa players which appear to be designed by someone not from the Soviet Politboro (Zune's brown color is widely called "Soviet Brown" in the trade and consumer press).
About the brown thing? It's the only unique thing about the player (that is worthwhile). Incidentally, for what its worth, the sales folks at the local Radio Shack (Upper West Side, Manhattan) have told me that the Zune is flying off their shelves. When I told them that I was shocked... they admitted that they were too.
Leben Sie jetzt die Fragen.
MS always had a long term strategy. Just wait until it gets better.
See Internet Explorer. Now v7. First versions were bad.
See DirectX. From v0 (WinG) to v10. First versions were bad.
Wait for Zune 2, 3, 4... Today, it sucks, but in a few years, it will be OK.
-- Rastignac was here.
Zune has squirting, iPod doesn't. Zune has a subscription service on their music store. iPod has a larger music store that also includes video podcasts, TV shows, and movies. iPod has toys like the calendar, notepad, and some games. Zune has a built-in FM radio receiver. iPod has the click wheel (which probably looks like a small thing to most people, but having used both an iPod and a music player without one with my rather large music library, to me it is absolutely the most important distinction).
But you really shouldn't just compare the iPod to the Zune. Right now if I were looking for a new music player I'd be paying some serious attention to what Creative is selling.
what does an IPOD have (other than after market accessories) that the Zune does not?
-The ability to act as an external hard drive in a pinch.
-A software client that runs on Windows and Macintosh.
-Seasons in the market.
Is Microsoft really going to go the distance with this or will the Zune become another MSNtv(WebTv) type of product where all the R&D is done and it just festers?
if you steal from one source, that is plagiarism, if you steal from many, well, that's just research.
But unless it's very superior, Apple has a huge entrenched market share and a "name" in the business. This is kind of the reverse of the Vista vs OS X situation.
-b.
yeah... true... collectors of dust!
Actually I said I am thinking of buying a Zune, I actually have used an IPOD and have borrowed the 30gig version for its ability to play back a video clip on its screen when showing some product features.
One of the things I like about the Zune is that it seems to have a bigger screen, can get FM broadcasts, and its interface looks nice though I have not really had much opportunity to use one except at the store.
If you don't vote, you don't matter, so don't waste your time telling me your opinion
what does an IPOD have (other than after market accessories) that the Zune does not?
-The ability to act as an external hard drive in a pinch.
-A software client that runs on Windows and Macintosh.
-Seasons in the market.
A couple additions:
* A huge (and still growing) accessory market
* Can interface directly with a large number of cars (not just through an aux-in)
* Better software - not just cross-platform, but more polished and less buggy (even as buggy as iTunes 7 was initially, it was nothing compared to some of the horror stories I've seen about the Zune software)
* More software options - you don't need to use iTunes if you don't want to
* Clickwheel interface
* Better size/form factor
And yes, style. The Zune is big and ugly. The iPod is svelte and classy. Sure, that's subjective and you might not agree. Unfortunately for MS, 62+% of the market does agree and only 1.8% of the market feels otherwise.
Also, let's not forget that Apple has several different iPods on the market, and they don't break down sales by model. I think it's entirely possible that MS could do better if they released a nano and/or shuffle type Zune. They still won't catch the iPod, but they could easily triple their 1.8% market share (not that that means much). Apple has a model for every taste, where MS seems to specialize in big ugly brown boxes.
Just like happens with 99% of consumer products that have glitzy launches?
Seriously this is a piece of non-news turned into Microsoft bashing.
No. They will be called Zubunti, which is also Swahili for "tribe of horse-faced linux geeks."
However i suspect the iPod has simply hit that monopoly status like Windows
Really - what is the limitation to switching from an iPod?
Sure some people have songs from iTunes, but for most music people are still buying CD's. The amount of ITMS songs people own is not enough to explain why people continue to buy iPods instead of other players.
With Windows if I want to buy almost any PC but a Mac, by default I get Windows. If I want to use programs needed for work I have to use Windows, if I want to access my freaking intranet website I need Windows (or at least IE)!
THAT is monopoly.
If I wanted to, I could easily buy a different MP3 player and things would work just fine - if it played AAC, all the better (wince that's what I rip CD's to). But I stick with the iPod because it does what it does better than other players I have tried - including the Zune. The iPod has a most not of monopoly, but of ease of use - in order to start making inroads on the iPod it must be easier, or at least AS EASY to use as an iPod - and if you read Zune reviews that software does not make it the case. The Sansa on the other hand is rather simple to use and doesn't try to make the users life more complicated, which is why people are buying them.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I was all anti-Xbox when that thing first came out. In my eyes it was so much worse than the GCN that I couldn't understand purchasing one. PS2 sale numbers owned it hard, and were I a Sony guy I would have been talking the same talk as Apple folks are today. And now the Xbox family is doing just fine, all things considered. Maybe MS will actually turn a profit on those things within the next couple of years. After all, they do know something about running a competitive business, and with consoles they have the experience of trying to break into a market with an already-dominant product out there. Maybe soon enough the Zune will be where the 360 is. And as MS releases new "versions" like the Zune Micro or whatever they feel like calling it, they'll get more competitive. I'm a Creative guy right now anyway. My next player will likely be an Archos. But the Zune/iPod war has only begun if you ask me.
I like basketball!!1!
Definitely. I just recently bought a Creative Zen Vision:M 30MB and it's pretty nice. It plays tons of video formats, no DRM restrictions, FM receiver, voice recorder, etc. I'm not totally happy with the music organization, but it works well enough.
With every Zune sold, some of it goes toward the RIAA. Apple (nor any other mp3 player else I know of) doesn't share it's hardware sales with the music industry (rightly so).
This may not be a feature, but it is important to some people. Also, there are a good number of other mp3 players out there, notably iRiver. Apple and MS aren't the only ones to consider.
I agree the displays are not good - I spent some time with one at a target.
First of all, the Borwn Zune (there were two, black and white) was either locked up or had a fake screen. I couldn't tell, but the impression a user would have is that it had crashed.
The black one worked, and I was able to try using it (though the speakers connected didn't work or were not on). A real problem the Zune has with a fixed kiosk is that browsing between pictures and video and songs, the whole interface rotates - that is to say, Zune changes the display such that you need to hold the Zune on it's side for some photos and video. When the device is fixed upright you cannot and it makes it really hard to use - plus the controls are also rotated (up becomes left, right becomes down) which you have to figure out. Personally I really did not like this control rotation and found it made it hard to figure out what you were supposed to do in any given mode.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
...what does an iPod have (other than after market accessories) that the Zune does not?
An Apple logo?
Other than that, they are both overpriced MP3 players.
Perhaps there is some difference in sound quality, but cost is the chief deciding factor (and is probably why I own neither, with no plans to own either).
While you may think the color brown is unhip, you must understand that from a designer's and marketer's POV brown has been a 'HOT' color for at least the last year.
Now my background in color makes me recognize when color-trends take over. All you need to do is get out of your house/apartment/basements and go to a trendy store like Target, Crate and Barrel... etc. Casually look at accessories for your hip and swingin' pad and you will notice that a very dark blueish-brown color paired with either a cream-color, minty green or a greenish-blue (think a pale cyan here) with nickel plated hardware (brass is out) are all the rage.
Now you may not think brown in any form is hip, but since you are a small speck in the marketplace for items without IDE/SATA/USB/Fibre and/or RJ-45 connectors as standard equipment, you may not realize this trend.
I know it's fun to make fun of MS anything but I just thought I'd mention all this because no Zune article can be posted without poking fun at the "brown one" either purposely or subconsciously.Yes, in my mind even I associate the color brown with shit, and while the Zune might be a POS on many levels, the brown one does not reinforce that fact. What tells me it's a POS is that MS only casually wants you to know the Zune is an MS product, that with the fact the wireless is crippled AND 'Plays4Sure' is unsupported.
God: When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
Lets see -- I can think of a few just from the top of my head,
iTMS FairPlay allows you to;
Copy a tune to (and play it back on) any number of iPods.
Copy the tune to (and play it back on) five different computers.
Burn the tune to a standard Audio CD any number of times.
- The resulting CD has no DRM and may be ripped, encoded and played back like any other CD.
Does the Zune system let you do any of those things?
Ian Ameline
Perhaps UPS is buying them in bulk.
I bought the 1st gen - yes it was expensive but I had enough of players with USB connections, firewire was way faster - so I bought it as a music player but also a portable hard drive. There was nothing like it on the market, as far as ease of use and features went.
It's funny that five years later, Microsoft introduces a player that can't even be used as a hard drive...
Sales really took off for the iPod when they introduced the Windows compatible model. The funny thing is, today Microsoft started with Windows compatibility - perhaps sales will really take off when they introduce software that lets the Zune work with Macs!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Zune has a built-in FM radio receiver
I got the Apple FM attachment for my Nano and am very happy with how slickly it integrates.
Well, it used to be the case that Ipod had some *real* technical and usability advantages over their competitors, not just "style" (which is a stupid reason to buy something, IMO). Competition is clearly catching up, and if Apple doesn't makes big innovative updates to the ipod, others will have the chance to do and steal market share from Apple.
The issue with DRM restrictions is on file formats, software that creates files in that format, and music stores. Not the player. If your Creative Zen plays encumbered WMA or AAC files, it is no more or less DRM-encumbered than any other device that plays encumbered WMA or AAC files.
A player that is untouched by DRM is a player that will not play any DRM-encumbered formats. To the best of my knowledge, there is not a single hard drive based player on the market that fits this category.
I agree, I just bought a SAMSUNG YP-Z5 4 GB digital player and I think this is THE ONE I would recommend to everyone. It has the ability to be used with Windoze Media Player but the music is copied in comprehensable folders in the flash memory.
I can also copy the music folders directly using any Linux file manager (or plain old cp). It can handle some kind of DRM thing (which I dont use as I dont like leasing crippled products) and the best thing is that it plays MP3, WMV and OGG. It is the size of an Ipod nano and has a color screen, the battery lasts more han 30 hours (continuous playing, I usually just use the shuffle all function and never stop the thing, just put down the headphones).
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
I'll tell you what. I'm not really going to be interested in any electronic device which advertises "squirting" or "helmet camera" in the list of features. But, hey, I'm a traditionalist. You just go strap on that helmet camera and squirt all you want, just don't do it near me.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
> Does the Zune system let you do any of those things?
For tracks you bought - yes for all things you listed. For tracks you rented via subscription - no.
Style is not just looks. it's sliding out of bed, lookin' awesome, smoothly puttin on your stylin' clothes, hoppin into your sports car and zooming off. In contrast, a lack of style is stumbling out of bed, not being able to find your glasses, forgetting to shave, accidentally brushing your teeth with the preparation H, burning the breakfast, and sighing as you get into the minivan with the broken muffler. Yeah, they both get the job done. One of them sucks though.
must... stay... awake...
I wonder how he'd have reacted if the Zune had, counter to everyone's expectations, been wildly successful?
"I won't lie: we're very disappointed. We'd been hoping to play a mediocre second fiddle to Apple on this one. We'd even put all kinds of half-baked functionality into the Zune to limit the obviously great potential of the wifi capabilities. And yet, we've gone and eclipsed the iPod. Heads are going to roll, I'll tell you that much."
The 30GB iPod takes up 31% less volume than the Zune and 42% less volume than the 30GB Creative Zen Vision:M.
The 30GB iPod has 15% less mass than both the Zune and the 30GB Creative Zen Vision:M.
The 80GB iPod has 167% more storage space than the Zune and takes up 12% less volume than the Zune.
The 80GB iPod has 33% more storage space, takes up 38% less volume, and has 12% less mass than the 60GB Creative Zen Vision:M.
The 80GB iPod has 167% more storage space, takes up 26% less volume, and has 4% less mass than even the 30GB Creative Zen Vision:M.
No one makes an MP3 player comparable to the iPod in the capacity/form factor department. Same goes for the Nano. iPod owns the market because Apple has no real competition.
I'm looking for other young male Zune owners to squirt with.
Mark Foley
If you're going to get an MP3 Player, how about something that actually looks cool to begin with http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prod id=MP-002-MB
tiny small form factor (smaller than the nano, although it is a cube)
has FM Radio and can be used as a USB memory stick, OLED display
there's even a 2nd generation device coming out that can play videos as well (although why would anyone want to)
The newegg.com reviews seem to speak for themselves: while not perfect, this product is superior to the iPod, both aesthetically and functionally.
To be fair, Betamax was superior to VHS both aesthetically and functionally.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
The popularity of the iPod is beyond Apple now. Their situation is much like that of Windows. There's nothing particularly great about Windows itself that keeps people using it. What keeps people there is familiarity and the near endless amount software that only runs on Windows. How much money has been spent on accessories that only work with the iPod? Those people are locked in and like Windows, just the fact that something better exists (OSX, Linux) isn't enough to switch.
The title of the article is "Zune doesn't shake iPod's market lead - MICROSOFT MP3 PLAYER HAS DECENT 1ST MONTH". That's a far cry from "Zune Sales Continue to Weaken".
From the article :
"In contrast, there are already questions about how sustainable Microsoft's Zune sales will be. NPD's own weekly data had Microsoft falling from the No. 2 vendor of MP3 players in its first week to No. 5 in its second week."
Sounds like their sales are weakening to me.
Hell, the article summary isn't even correct. Slashdot spin version: "Apple remained unchanged at 62.2%". Actual article text: "Apple's share of the hard drive market fell to 82.7 percent from 86.8 percent a year ago, its share of the overall market came in at 62.2 percent, essentially even with the 63 percent it posted a year ago."
As your own quote says, Apple's overall share was essentially unchanged. That's exactly what the summary said.
What the article also says is that the Nano (up 37%) and shuffle (doubled) market shares increased. The reduction in Apple hard drive market share could easily be explained by the market shifting more towards flash based players. The article's and the summary's assertion that the zune has had no impact on the ipod seems pretty reasonable to me.
The slashdot summary was even generous in its comment about the brown zune, which has actually sold as poorly as the white zune.
Instead of trying to spin existing articles, I personally think that it's time for Slashdot editors to just start making shit up.
You do know that people submit the stories and the editors just post them, right?
This attempt at spin is pretty sad. Why not just make up an article that says, "Bill Gates went on a shooting spree today, killing 100 orphan children, before turning the weapon on himself".
If that constitutes "shill spin" on slashdot's part, your response should easily qualify as microsoft shill spin.
Darth --
Nil Mortifi, Sine Lucre
I love Slashdot - only here can the argument that an mp3 player has style turn into a movie with you "sliding out of bed, lookin' awesome, smoothly puttin on your stylin' clothes, hoppin into your sports car and zooming off."
You forgot to brush your teeth there bud. Style ain't gonna help you with no cavities fo' sure. Twit.
Reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.
Not necessarily. Stores are also a business, and if the minority product's vendor can subsidize its losses in one division with excessive profits in another, the store might be persueded to add extra emphesis to a non-leading product that its vendor hopes will one day become one.
So basically what you are saying is that microsoft could leverage their existing os and office monopolies to create favourable deals for promoting the zune and gaining marketshare in the portable player market. I wonder if the U.S. legal system will work this time around, or if we'll have to rely on the EU courts again.
Darth --
Nil Mortifi, Sine Lucre
Let's see. It's larger, heavier, has shorter battery life, is less attractive, has a clumsier interface (no scroll wheel and a less user-friendly menu system), doesn't support podcasts, has a lower storage capacity than the top of the line iPod, almost nonexistant 3rd party peripheral support, doesn't support Audible.com audiobooks, has poorer audio fidelity, only supports the laughable Zune Marketplace for purchasing music online (no podcasts, TV shows, movies, or games), can't be used on a Mac, and doesn't even support Microsoft's own previous DRM schemes.
.mp3 player. Well, for some definition of "fine", anyway.
Additionally the display, while larger, is the same resolution. The software it comes with has quickly developed a reputation for bugginess. Its one potentially cool feature (wireless) is utterly crippled by its implementation, with ridiculous DRM, no way to purchase music wirelessly, and not even the ability to sync with your computer wirelessly.
Finally, while I realize that this is probably a non-issue for most of the Slashdot crowd, the fact remains that the iPod is simply considered cooler within the cultural zeitgeist.
Other than that you're right- the Zune is a fine
Out of curiosity, does anyone out there know if music purchased in the Zune Marketplace can be shared with multiple computers? Purchases from iTMS can be authorized for up to 5 computers. I haven't heard one way or the other how this works for the Zune.
Boundless Expansion, Self-Transformation, Dynamic Optimism, Intelligent Technology, Spontaneous Order- BEST DO IT SO!
That could be fun!
In other news, ESR to release The Cathedral and the Bazaar as a film on October 31, 2007 staring Arnold Schwarzenegger, Brad Pitt and Jessica Alba. Brad Pitt rallies the locals at the bazaar to go around town to burn down all the cathedrals. Arnold Schwarzenegger reprises his role as Terminator sent back in time by the GNU Project to elimiate Pitt. Alba is rumored to have a shower scene...just cuz.
:wq
Paul Thurrott, is that you? ;-)
Boundless Expansion, Self-Transformation, Dynamic Optimism, Intelligent Technology, Spontaneous Order- BEST DO IT SO!
You PDA has an 80 GB HDD in it?
What model is that?
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
How much is Microsoft paying you to post?
Sure, the iPod may be more popular, but the brown Zune is more poopular.
Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
I fail to see how not capturing the market dominated by Apple for 6 years in just 2 weeks means a failure for Zune?
One thing the Zune does have is underdog status. People who are anti-apple/anti-ipod who will do whatever it takes to get people into the zune culture.
So, I was in a GameStop this weekend (my friend was trading in his gamecube) and this woman behind the register was talking to a customer about the zune and she was talking it up like I've never heard anyone talk up any product in my life. I mean, she wasn't just saying how great it was, she was making up lies on the spot to this guy and she even managed to sell one to the guy.
When I heard the conversation start, it began with "so, is that zune actually any good?" and the woman behind the counter says "yeah, I have one and it's awesome. I threw my ipod out after I got it because that thing was such a waste of money. It only plays music that you buy from apple in the iPod store and I have an extensive MP3 collection, so that was all useless, and the Zune is compatable with your xbox360 points, so you can use that money for that. try that with APPLE!"
she went on to say how the ipod is $400, but the zune is only $200 and the zune can share the music which the ipod can't do. She also claims to have contacted microsoft and quized the about it and she was saying how music purchased at any online music store can be played on the zune, plus it has an FM radio, which is a huge plus.
now, I don't know what her deal was and I'm not even sure if she realized if she was lying, but I was ready to throw something at her. seriously.
Also, my dislike for the zune isn't fueled by any hate for microsoft that I have. it's directly related to the quality of the product and its featureset. it's a poorly designed music player (and I'm not talking aesthetically) and doesn't do what it should (namely, the #1 thing it should do that it doesn't is play Plays For Sure(TM) files).
btw, this is my 666th comment. yay!
...spike
Ewwwwww, coconut...
Quick addendum to my last comment. I was checking to see how many computers Zune Marketplace purchases can be used on (just one, it would seem), and came across a deficiency in the Zune that's such an obvious oversight that I'd never even thought to check.
Apparently it can't be used as an external hard drive. Damn. I use my iPod as extra storage all the time. It's such a simple and useful bit of functionality that I'd assumed the Zune would have this capability. It turns out that it doesn't.
I've even used my iPod as a boot drive for troubleshooting Macs. I obviously wouldn't expect the Zune to be able to do this, but to not be usable for storing/transfering large files at all is absurd.
Boundless Expansion, Self-Transformation, Dynamic Optimism, Intelligent Technology, Spontaneous Order- BEST DO IT SO!
That's why I firmly believe that the other manufacturers need to band together to create a standard external connector. The iPod was an attractive product, but it was never ground breaking. The problem is that at this point, accessory manufacturers make accessories for iPod because they have the biggest market share, and at least partially because all the accessories are for iPods, iPod will keep the biggest market share.
If the other manufacturers standardized an external connector, they could have enough of an accessory market share that they could compete.
that doesn't make any sense ...
However, the iTMS song you purchased, it in a less than ideal 'lossy' format...you've lost information before you even purchased it, from the retail CD version. And, after you re-encode it to mp3 (or whatever), you've lost information again. Now you have basically a 2nd generation copy...much like in the old days of borrowing a friends taped copy of a song, and copying that tape...in principal.
I'd rather buy the CD, rip it to high standards (FLAC for living room stereo media box), or mp3, for portable...for the car or gym, which are horrible listening environments to begin with....so lossy doesn't really matter in those areas.
So, for the price of the CD (and I don't know where ya'll are paying $18+ for cd's at..most I see are in the $10-$12 range)...I can rip it multiple times to the format of choice for usage environment. And I'm not restricted at all to how many copies I can make for myself, nor the quality of such copies.
Which is a better deal now?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I'm sorry, but no. Nobody's catching up. Any other player than the iPod has the scroll wheel? No? Of course not, they'd have Apple lawyers on their asses in no time. So, unless another music player comes with a scroll wheel, it'll have a very hard time being as usable as an iPod. We'll have to wait until the next paradigm shift until that happens (the same way a scroll wheel was a paradigm shift when introduced on a portable music player). The iPod is the ONLY music player with which you can go through your whole music library without lifting your thumb up (or any other finger for that matter).
I believe it's exactly the same thing as with mice. Does anybody still buy/use mice without a scroll wheel? Would you use one? I haven't seen a mouse without one lately, it's more like they're getting two (eg Logitech MX Revolution). Even trackballs have scroll wheels now.
Were you repeatedly dropped on your head as a child? Where in my post did I mention the Zune? I replied to a post stating that other players (not just the Zune) were catching up to the iPod. I pointed out that it doesn't matter how good those players are, the iPod has critical mass due to add-ons and will be the player of choice regardless of how good other players get in the near future.
Please, for the sake of all mankind, stop posting.
Thank you for pointing this out. Of course, this is why I bought the Zune. It's important for me to know that my music player is supporting the starving artists.
Anyone who gives a microsoft product "underdog" status should be castrated. There are zillion smaller and more sympatihc mp3 player manufacturers to give your sympathy over (iRiver, Archos, iAudio, ...).
signatures pending - ansa@kos.to - (dont mail there)
The IP cartels have forgotten how business works: sell people products that they want at a reasonable price, and people will purchase your product. Yes it is "unfair" that you are competing with "free" pirated competition, but sometimes, you draw a string of bad luck. Those of us in software development are competing against Indian and former Soviet states that might as well be free... Open Source development has expanded from infrastructure to more and more of the software market, and client don't understand the need to do custom work when the free stuff now "almost works as they want."
It's the nature of the market, it destroys people that are standing still. The problem for the IP cartels is that technology used to take decades to eat the market (VHS ate the re-released movie market, but created the home Video market, DVD ate VHS rental commissions, but created the home movie collection), now it takes years. However, if you move fast, you can make money.
Napster made it possible for large swaths of the public to become exposed to non Top 40 music, people traded MP3s around, and it was easy to get a file, but a pain to get a CD, so if you liked it, you bought the CD. Killing Napster opened the market to better P2P solutions. Apple created a pleasant way to buy digital music. The only constant is change.
If I were in charge of the music studios, I'd keep my legal teams on a short leash, harassing P2P enough to push people toward Apple and Microsoft solutions, but not enough to make my customers hate me. I'd use sites like Myspace.com to get my bands out there, and I would crank out new artists. I'd focus less on monetizing my archive with DRM, and sell whatever I can sell. I'd increasing touring, push SA-CD / DVD-A as a higher quality solution. Hit the market everywhere, some stuff will sell, some won't.
However, my biggest change would be my contracting of artists. The current solution, lose money on 9 bands but make a killing on 1, giving everyone giant advances to live like rock stars, playing the celebrity gossip game, etc., isn't working. The one-hit wonder who gets famous flashing the papparazzi is a dead strategy because P2P eats you, but bands with a following make you money. I'd lower advances, increase the artist cut, and get the artists to think like music creators, creating more CDs, and less time playing celebrity. When a band gets discovered, give them money to produce albums, not party it up. There are more music channels (XM, Sirius, HD Radio, etc.), most outlets for videos (Myspace.com, Youtube.com, Google Video, etc.), and more ways to introduce people to music.
Sure, piracy will eat some sales, but it will expose people to more music. Some people may never buy music, but others will if you make it easy. Get product out there, sell what you can, and keep the legal team on enough of an offensive to keep the pirates at bay... however, forget the idea that you can STOP piracy.
Also, STOP making the technology suck. HDMI has proved to be a colossal disaster, it doesn't work right. Havi over Firewire was the easier solution, multiple cables suck (component + firewire or optical audio), but the HDMI situation causes SOOOOO many problems. The technical hurdles affecting your high end customers are killing you. If you want to move discs, get people to WANT higher quality. SA-CD and DVD-A presented a way to make downloaded MP3s of questionable quality less valuable, but you never supported them, and required people to run 6 audio cables because you didn't want digital solutions to take off, WTF!
Stop screwing around, you're missing the fact that pirates attack your low-end, move up market, and just rattle the pirates a bit. You've lost site of your business, and became engrossed with piracy. Put out music people like, and sales will take off... even if the piracy rate hurts somewhat, you can move product. With a minor harassment game, high school and college kids may not buy CDs, but they will after school when they have money, if you have created bands that they love. The market is changes, adapt with it... but in the end, SELL product EVERYWHERE, stop navel gazing and running in fear.
But you really shouldn't just compare the iPod to the Zune. Right now if I were looking for a new music player I'd be paying some serious attention to what Creative is selling.
I wouldn't be very surprised if what Creative is selling is iPods before long. Or, in other words, Create may not exist as a company that builds not-iPods.
Just saying. We could be at the point where licensing FairPlay or buying up hardware vendors starts to make sense for Apple. After all, Microsoft has already pissed in the face of every PlaysForSure licensee.
A number of people who (* cough mistake *) bought the Zune have complained that they can't find anyone to share music with.
In Seattle
In Coffeeshops
In Malls
Think about it, that's NOT a good thing to say.
Me, I think our DRM-obsessed overlords blew this one. Good tech, lousy software/DRM.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I think the young people enjoy it when I "get down" verbally, don't you?
That reminds me of a friend at the data center: a very peculiar guy, technically very competent yet focused on learning speech techniques, philosophy, all the humanistic things.
:-)
Well, to create a proper climate, he even got himself one of those decorative mini Zen gardens, with sand and little stones. He even made those circles in the sand, meaning the sea/universe, I don't know.
Well, some of his "friends" put a fake crap in his Zen garden... I almost had a seizure when I saw it... Unix guys can kill sometimes, beware!
While I understand the joys of Schadenfreude, I just understand why all of you people are getting your knickers in a twist over this. I have looked at the Zune and it is an OK player. I am on my third iPod, and trust me, they have problems too. give it a rest.
The hardware of the unit is ok, but the sound quality is pretty sad. It's worse than my Dell DJ gen 1, which is based off the Creative Zen line. There's no customizable EQ. The interface is decent, but they really dropped the ball with the SQ. How do you mess that up? I'm no audiophile and my best canalphones aren't even that expensive relatively, and I can hear the sound difference vs. the Creative Zen hardware in my Dell DJ. Plus, the unit is a little fat relative to an iPod, and only 30GB of capacity. I dunno about you guys, but I have more than 30GB of music. The lack of an in-line optional remote is also annoying. The RDS feature for FM was interesting, but it seems to take a while to populate the text and it often gets corrupted. I don't know if this is an RDS issue or a problem with the Zune implementation. The Wifi, is of course a DRM'd useless joke that just makes the player weigh more. Bluetooth stereo headphone support would've been far more useful.
The software on the PC is the real killer. It's not iTunes. In fact, it sucks. It crashes quite often, has poor format support, is slow (seriously, just scrolling through music chugs). I don't like iTunes much, in fact I'm a folder/WinAmp man, but iTunes is pretty good compared to the suck that is the Zune software. The features to get missing song tag info also don't work very well. Seriously, if a file is named "Artist - Song.mp3" it doesn't take Hal 9000 to deduce that might be a good place to start looking for MP3 tag information. Speaking of which, the lack of support for a folder-based navigation system bothers me in general. That aside, the software is a bloated, slow, buggy mess.
Is it worth $90? Maybe. Is it worth $250? Not even close. The software sucks, the player's a fatty with mediocre sound quality, and even if the iPod did not exist I'd rather have a Creative or Samsung player. Bad design, and bad implementation. It's aggravating and annoying to use, and doesn't play the formats I use. Rio once had a player called "Karma". I think that's a more fitting title than "Zune" for what's happening here. Supposedly the odds of getting one on Amazon.com for $90 were 122:1 or something. In my crystal ball I see those odds decreasing in the future, unless Microsoft learns how to write efficient, stable, interoperable code. (hah)
Maybe the Brown Zune should have a new slogan... What Can't Brown Do For You?
Windows has detected an undetectable error.
How interesting - both this APOLAUF fellow and one other responder to him that say how much he liked his Zune both seem to have created ID's recently, and also have ONLY posted to this Zune story. Would someone really create a userID just to defend the Zune?
What about the interface makes it "fun" to use compared to an iPod? Personally a prefer a device I can listen to music to, where the interface is not "fun" but quick and non-intrusive.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
No real biggie there, but I have a lot of live concerts, most all of which span multiple CDs. In foobar2000, I had already had them all tagged accordingly, but for some reason the Zune just didn't recognize the metadata for it. No substitute field, either. It's really annoying to half to skip 2 tracks every track when listening to WEEN live in Minneapolis.
Still, I thought those were both kinda minor, but then I got to using the Zune for the real reason I bought it: lossless. Long story short I goofed up on reading the specs and the Zune doesn't support lossless. It will even try to cap your 320kbs .mp3/.m4a at 192 and convert it to .wma. But here's the question: Why would a device trying to compete--nay overthrow, the iPod limit its capabilities to anything inferior?? The iPod has its own lossless codec, which is quite good.
All those little things have the marks of typical Microsoft goof-ups and they just stare you in the face when you use the Zune and you hate it more and more.
You were critically hit for no damage. The bruise will look nice, and maybe the scars will make good party talk.
Palm drove itself out of business before WinCE even showed up.
Jeff Hawkins went from GRiD to Tandy to USR to 3COM and then Handspring with his Palm ideas, and was met with incompetence all the way. Palm and Handspring merged, creating Palm, split apart and rejoined together in an exhausting series of corporate incompetence. The Palm's high point was the Palm V, and it pretty much floundered since by trying to be more like what WinCE offered: big color screens with no battery life in a big box: useless.
1994-1998 Newton was cool but spendy and too big.
1998-2001 Palm was the cool cheap gadget to have.
2001-2007 iPod was the thing to have, who needs a PDA?
2000-2006 WinCE tried to play but nobody cared, Microsoft is ready to let it go.
Newton, GO, GRiD, Palm & WinCE
It's just Microsoft's typical pattern...
Version 1.0 = laughable joke
Version 2.0 = OK, but still not as good as the competitor
Version 3.0 = Close enough to the competitor to win market share.
Version 4.0 = Total domination of market ("What's an I-Pod, is it anything like a Zune?")
It is only because of Microsoft's inconceivable financial reserves that they can survive so many inferior generations, where other companies would have had to throw in the towel.
-a.d.-
I'm Erwin Schrodinger and I approve of this message, and I do not approve of this message!
I suspect that if Microsoft Xbox division were its own company (i.e., if you removed the other concerns in their entertainment division) investors would be extremely sour on it. The competition today in the high-end console market is apt to be financially ruinuous to both Sony's and Microsoft's console business, i.e., they will be one-upping each other enough that neither can sell enough games (and collect other fees) per platform that they'll never make a real business of it (until one decides to drop out at least...). Anyone want to wager?
As for the Zune business, you should also realize that it is a very different business. Many, if not most, of the Zune's potential customers already have purchased a significant number of tracks on iTunes' Music Store. The forseeable inability of the Zune to readily play this music for the end-user is going to be a major strike against it. This is different than, say, consumers that own console-games because the next generation player (console) don't really make the older material seem less worthwhile. What's more, Microsoft must convince the major labels to licensing their music under terms at least as good as Apples. Apple may be a quasi-monopoly here, but I could see the labels having serious doubts about Microsoft's intentions...
Microsoft is obviously a huge company. However, almost all of their profits have come from their traditional businesses (e.g., Windows and Office.... the biggest exception to this being SQL). The competition that they've successfully beat have have largely been much smaller and have competed in areas where they were able to leverage their monopoly powers to tremendous advantage (e.g., Netscape). I simply don't see their "success" as being an all encompasing reason to believe that they'll succeed financially at any business they want simply because they're cash flush and presumably "smart".