Microsoft Laptop Recipient Auctioning Laptop

Salvance writes "While most bloggers who received the controversial Vista powered Acer from Microsoft are keeping them, Laughing Squid has decided to auction off his free laptop from Microsoft and donate all proceeds to the The Electronic Frontier Foundation. (EFF) He saw this as a great opportunity to support a worthy cause, and some other bloggers are following suit. What's funny is that Microsoft is now backpedaling and telling bloggers to send back the laptops. Do they even have a legal right to do so?"

Comments

huh

[Swimport]

For the price of these laptops they could have sent out complimentary Vista discs to thousands of these so called influential people.

Re:huh

[dominique_cimafranca]

Given Vista's steep hardware requirements, I doubt if just sending out CDs would have done much good.

Re:huh

[mrchaotica]

If Microsoft wasn't so bent on keeping everything proprietary, there really would only be the cost of the media. Look, for instance, at organizations like Debian -- you don't see them paying for "key management," now do you?

Re:huh

[1u3hr]

That's like saying if it weren't for car thieves necessitating keys and alarm systems, then the price of cars would only be the cost of the materials that go into it.

Thus raising the bar for most incomprehensible and absurd "car = software" analogy.

Re:huh

[node 3]

That's like saying if it weren't for car thieves necessitating keys and alarm systems, then the price of cars would only be the cost of the materials that go into it.

It's possible to steal a car (and it happens quite often). It's impossible to steal Windows (and has never happened, ever).

Unless you simply mean stealing the physical disc, which the key doesn't really do much to prevent.

Copyright infringement != theft.

Re:huh

[kasperd]

That's like saying if it weren't for car thieves necessitating keys and alarm systems, then the price of cars would only be the cost of the materials that go into it.

If I was going to buy a car, it would be in my best interest to have a good lock on the car. If I was going to buy an operating system, it would not be in my best interest to have loads of artificial restrictions in the operating system.

Re:huh

[Aim Here]

Economics lesson.

The COST of cars is the price of the materials that go into it, plus the cost of the labour required to make and of the resources required to move it to where it is to be sold. There's also a single one-off fixed cost to begin with that relates to the factory the car is built in, plus the cost of designing the car, plus some other small sundries. Those one-off costs become less and less important, the more cars you sell.

The price is the cost plus the profit.

Now with a copy of some piece of software, the price of the materials, the labour required to make it, and the resources required to move it is either the cost of the box and the media it comes on (i.e. very cheap) or the price of letting the internet distribute it (i.e. more or less free). There's still a one-off fixed cost, which is the cost of writing it in the first place, but that becomes less and less important as time goes on, just like the cars. Besides, it's eminently possible to get those fixed costs taken care of for more or less nothing too. Linux does it. GNU does it. (Free|Open|Net)BSD does it. You get the picture. The reason that they're generally free (as in beer) and Windows isn't is precisely because they've relaxed the need to cover the fixed costs (and, of course, curbed Linus' immense lust for profit and power) by using copyright law to proprietarise software.

Price again, is cost + profit. In this case, with the proprietary locks on, the profit margin is immense, because the marginal cost of what Microsoft sells is next to nothing, and that is why Bill Gates is the richest man in the world.

Your particular analogy is broken because a) you confuse cost with price and b) ten cars costs roughly ten times as much to make (given the initial investment in making a car factory) as one car, whereas ten copies of windows costs roughly the same to make as one copy of windows (barring the fixed costs, again). The price of both cars and software is cost + profit; however with software, the cost is next to 0, and the profit only exists because of the existence of the proprietary 'locks'.

Hope this helps.

Re:huh

[arkanes]

Without a *prior* contract in place, anything anyone sends to you in the mail is yours, free and clear. This is due to an old mail fraud scam, where you'd send someone magazines, or books, or whatever, and then bill them for services rendered. Shrinkwrap licenses don't work (because courts and lawmakers actually gave a shit about that kind of deceptive marketing 100 years ago). So if Microsoft sent people a laptop, if they didn't have a contract *before they sent it*, then they just gave away laptops. That's why the Microsoft letter says "give away or return", and that's why it's just spin anyway. Corporations don't give stuff like this away "just for fun". You can bet that it's entered on a balance sheet as "goodwill" somewhere. But you aren't supposed to be so obvious or extravagant with your bribes, so they're taking heat and they're trying to spin out of it.

Can they ask for them back? Yes.

[j-beda]

But must they be returned? Probably not. In must places, unsolicited gifts cannot have strings attached. If someone sends you something in the mail, it is yours, even regardless of what is included in it. This is to prevent people from sending out "valuable" product unsolicited and then demanding payment. This means that if someone in the shipping room makes an error and send out actual valuable product to the wrong person, typically that wrong person is under no obligation to return it.

Re:Can they ask for them back? Yes.

[Timesprout]

Well given that Microsoft clearly said they could be sent back or given away when they gave them out initally of course they can. Also Microsoft have not asked for the latops back. They asked that they be given away or returned to them when reviewed, very big difference.

Re:Can they ask for them back? Yes.

[Bastard of Subhumani]

They asked that they be given away or returned to them when reviewed, very big difference.

I gave mine away, to my pet dog. He didn't like it much, so he sold it back to me for a biscuit and a tummy tickle. And I challenge any layer to prove otherwise.

Re:Can they ask for them back? Yes.

[Bloke down the pub]

If someone sends you something in the mail, it is yours, even regardless of what is included in it.

And if the bank accidentally transfers money into your account you can keep it. If they ask for it back, it's entrapment. What's more, if a cop gives you a speeding ticket and he's not wearing his hat, you don't have to pay.

Re:Can they ask for them back? Yes.

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

And if the bank accidentally transfers money into your account you can keep it. If they ask for it back, it's entrapment. What's more, if a cop gives you a speeding ticket and he's not wearing his hat, you don't have to pay.

Smart-ass.

Re:Can they ask for them back? Yes.

[Secrity]

In the US and other places that use British Common Law; if the bank accidentally transfers money into your account, it is called unjust enrichment and they can take it back.

In the US, Canada, UK, and many other countries; if somebody sends an INDIVIDUAL an item that was unsolicited, the receiver may considered it to be a gift. The laws differ by country if a BUSINESS receives something that was unsolicited.

On a forum, a guy who sells collectibles on ebay had a big problem because he mixed up two boxes that he sent to buyers; one contained a $300 item and the other a $20 item. The seller talked to a lawyer who essentially told the seller that he was shit out of luck. The seller had the lawyer type up a (useless) letter demanding that the $300 item be returned and sent it to the buyer.

The buyers reported to ebay/paypal that they hadn't received their items. The buyer who received the demand letter then mailed a cheap toy to the seller. A week later the buyer sent the seller a letter containing the same wording as the letter that the seller had sent, demanding that the seller return the cheap toy. Needless to say, the seller's postings became quite livid at this point.

In the end the seller was out the $300 item and shipping costs, and both paypal transfers were canceled. One buyer received a $300 item as an unsolicited gift and the other buyer returned the $20 item to the seller (seller paid the shipping). I don't know what happened to the cheap toy.

unconcious bias

[purplelocust]

Presumably, Microsoft read the same New York Times Op-Edon bias as everyone else, that basically says that people claim to be uninfluenced by things like this but that they really are fooling themselves and are biased. Microsoft wouldn't have done this laptop giveaway if they didn't think it would work- that is, result in at least slightly better reviews than they would have gotten otherwise.

Re:This article needs to be changed.

[LunarCrisis]

FTFA (the fourth link)

Just to make sure there is no misunderstanding of our intentions I'm going to ask that you either give the pc away or send it back when you no longer need it for product reviews. The summary is still wrong, but not as wrong as you make out.

Auction link

[dtfinch]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =160068144458

Re:This article needs to be changed.

[1u3hr]

The Slashdot editorial comment: "Microsoft is now backpedaling and telling bloggers to send back the laptops. Do they even have a legal right to do so?" is misleading. The letter from MS quoted in TFA is couched as a request. No one claimed they had a "legal right" to demand their return.

I hate MS as much as anyone, but there's no need to make stuff up.

Blogger control

[kahei]

The real news here is how snobbish, foppish and whiny that blogger is. Is this what the blogosphere is like?? Is it really ruled by Mac-obsessed almost-hipsters with unwise facial hair and diagonal black-and-white photos of themselves? Do they really whinge on about how they're too clever to use Vista and how their webcasting startup will change the face of the Internet (sidebar on the right)?

Is this it, after 10 years of evolution?? Nathan Barley writ small, throwing a hissy fit because the wording of the letter on a review item was vague? THAT is a blogger important enough to merit unsolicited review junk??

Yeesh.

Re:Blogger control

[Bazman]

No, its much worse, this is it after four and a half billion years of evolution.

Re:This article needs to be changed.

[Anonymous Coward]

>I hate MS as much as anyone, but there's no need to make stuff up.
You must be new here.

This article is misleading.

[wng_z3r0]

First: a disclaimer (though I think it's irrelevant) I am a Microsoft MVP Now then, The little news blurb is misleading. The first time I read the post, I thought that Microsoft was unhappy that the blogger was donating his machine to charity and demanded the laptop back. Upon thorough reading of the included links, it is apparent that Microsoft has asked the blogger to give the laptops away (in support of the auction) or send them back to Microsoft. If you are going to include everything that Microsoft has done wrong, you might as well nail when they *actually* screw up. Trust me, there are enough of those to keep /. busy without misrepresenting stories. wng

Re:This article needs to be changed.

[rolfwind]

Let us hope so, otherwise he read that joke at least a million times.

Re:This article needs to be changed.

[MrShaggy]

I thought that the open-source community was suposed to be better.. There are no fan-boy-fanatics, (RMS aside)

Re:This article needs to be changed.

[NickFortune]

"I hate MS as much as anyone, but there's no need to make stuff up."

Why not? Ballmer makes shit up all the time, so does gates, so does every other CEO if every other corporation, so does president, vice president and every politician known to mankind.

Why not?

• Because we're better than they are.
• Because we don't need to lie to win this fight
• Because lying devalues our credibility, and the truth is our best weapon.
• Because telling the truth and writing better software seems to be working
• Because Microsoft has better liars than we have, and can pay for more mouths to shout the lies. To fight them on their own terms would be suicidal.

But mainly, because we're better than they are. And that should be reason enough.

Re:This article needs to be changed.

[db32]

Unfortunately that tends to be "We are going to lose, but don't know it" speak. I wonder how many politicians have been elected on the platform of "We don't have to lie because we are better" great...and you also aren't elected so your policy of not lying really means about squat because the guy who is telling all the lies is the 'decider'. Not that I really advocate lying here, just playing devil's advocate a bit.

Re:This article needs to be changed.

[jacksonj04]

Well, mostly not. Except for Firefox zealots. And people who refuse to consider anything but Linux. Oh, and don't forget distro wars. Should I be using KDE or Gnome? Vi or Emacs?

Interesting? Come on mods, this one is funny.

Re:This article needs to be changed.

[Orange Crush]

I thought that the open-source community was suposed to be better.. There are no fan-boy-fanatics, (RMS aside)

Every community has its fanatics. It just comes with the territory when dealing with people. Whether it's a religious, political, social or technological faction; there are foaming-at-the-mouth busybodies with agendas and megaphones and there are reasonable rational participants. In most cases, the fanatics are only a tiny minority. They're just a lot louder.

my laptop was sent without return instructions

[laughingsquid]

There seems to be quite a bit of misinformation here regarding my "agreement" with Microsoft (there wasn't any) regarding what I can do with the laptop. I've updated my blog post with the following:

As I mentioned in my original post on the laptop, the only communication I received about this was an email from Edelman. The email stated that Microsoft was sending me a "present" with "no strings attached" (those were the exact words used in the email). They did not include any instructions at all regarding what to do with the laptop. Also, I did not receive the same email as the other bloggers, including the follow-up email that was sent by Microsoft to Marshall Kirkpatrick asking him to return or give away the laptop. I have asked Edelman for an explanation regarding this inconstancy, but have not yet received one. So just to be clear, I was never sent any kind of instructions on what to do with the laptop and I did not sign anything, including an NDA.

Re:This article needs to be changed.

[breckinshire]

And it never gets old. I, for one, welcome our joke-repeating..

Ah, forget it. In Soviet Russia, something or other.

Re:This article needs to be changed.

[Warg! The Orcs!!]

surely

In Soviet Russia, other or something

Re:This article needs to be changed.

[chris_mahan]

I ctrl-K all over your comment.