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Some 'Next-Gen' DVDs May Not Work With Vista
schnikies79 wrote to mention an article on the Times Online site, where they report that a 'substantial number' of Vista PCs will be unable to play HD-DVDs or Blu-ray discs, as a result of DRM requirements made by the operating system. From the article: "Dave Marsh, the lead program manager for video at Microsoft, said that if the PC used a digital connection to link with the monitor or television, then it would require the highest level of content protection, known as HDCP, to play the discs. If it did not have such protection, Vista would shut down the signal, he said."
I think that just about sums it up. Why is MS in the studios' pockets anyway?
Does anyone know if current HD TVs are capable of playing HDCP DRMed content from Vista (or any other source)? I know that that HDREADY logo is supposed to mean that the answer is yes, but it's common for computer equipment (e.g. networking gear) to be incompatible even though all the kit is supposed to support the same standards. Does anyone have any practical experience with getting HDCP to work? Does anyone know if the standard is precise enough that early implementations are likely to interoperate?
The DRM component is dictated by a maze of legal agreements among the HD patent holders, the content industry and the consumer electronics industry. Vista's limitations are, in part, dictated by such agreements -- without them, you would not be able to buy a blue-ray or HD-DVD drive for your computer.
The problem, though, is that this situation did not need to be this way -- Microsoft could have teamed up with the electronics industry to say, effectively, "go to H*ll" to the content producers. The content producers would then have had to choose between (A) not releasing HD content or (B) releasing a non-DRM'd version. Their claim is that they would choose (A). But, they're full of crap -- doing so would deny them a new revenue stream in the face of increased competitive pressures. If the market didn't force them to switch, their stockholders would have.
[Note one problem: Sony is in both camps.]
Microsoft's representative could easily have chosen to say "In the future, by the year 2010, HD DVD and Blu-ray disks will certainly require such protection."
What he DID say according to TFA was "At the moment HD DVD and Blu-ray Discs certainly require such protection."
I don't know why he would be misinformed, or why, given the importance of this issue to Microsoft, he would be less than careful about what he said.
Most likely, current disks really don't play, because of some complexity in the interaction between Vista's DRM software and hardware that results in an illogical and unintended consequence.
If current disks will play, why on earth wouldn't he have taken great pains to say so and to stress the point.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
My Denon receiver (and/or the HD Tivo I have hooked up to it) does the same thing. I tried to hook up an LCD monitor to it so I could twiddle my Tivo without firing up the projector --- no dice. What's going to be interesting is seeing how virtual machine software handles virtual drives...
No it isn't enabled for HDDVD, otherwise you wouldn't be able to play it on the xbox 360. There are no plans to enable it either in the near future.
HDDVD doesn't even have region protection...
First, it is not new at all. If all consumer hardware is supposed to have this restriction, then why should PC be any different?
Second, we have already seen this. Modern DVD playing applications for PC detect video output chips (not for the PC monitor, just the TV-Out), and if the DVD is marked copy-protected, then they try to enable macrovision-style protection, which passes OK on TV (which are designed to deal with bad signal), but usually screws up if you try to record it on a VCR. If the output chip doesn't support macrovision, then the output is shut off. That's what we have for 8 years already. And there was no such wave of "boo" and objection, because that apparently happened totally without Microsoft, with film industry and hardware vendors making a deal.
They don't need to know why as long as they return the stuff. The average consumer will just stick to prior generation technology to avoid the hassle, because he will have heard through the grapevine many stories like this one, that technology X doesn't work yet because it's still too copy protected and they have to fix it, or one of their friends told them that if you get player Y or discs in format Z to stick to Windows XP because they won't work on Vista.
That's what a consumer revolution looks like. It isn't important that the consumers even be aware of it; the people who have to get the message are the sellers of this crap.
My guess is that stories like this one are poison. Together with the format war (which has everyone I talk to asking, "Which format has less DRM?") stories like this one will kill the high density DVD market for a few years. These technologies will flop just like the laser disc did, the industry press will conclude that people just aren't interested in higher density data storage, and the market will stagnate for a few years until somebody comes along who doesn't have their head up their ass and who makes some sort of general purpose data storage device specifically designed for unprotected content. There is a market for such stuff- not everyone is going to be using it for entertainment. If Vista fails to load drivers for such a device because they haven't been cryptographically signed with the blessing of their new media overlords (whom they all welcomed) then too bad for Vista.
I normally wouldn't respond to blatant flamebait (or assholes), but I will make an exception this time.
The fact is that the market exists the way it is. I've set the bar for what I'm willing to buy and put up with. They set a price, and when I'm comfortable with the price and the goods I get, I purchase the goods. That's how a market economy works.
Now, as to your other "points."
1) I generally show up at movies late to miss the previews. Since I go see them at matinees or late-night shows, this tends to not be a problem. Also, previews on virtually all DVDs are skippable with the touch of a button. In the few cases that they haven't been, I simply return the movie to the store and request a refund. I haven't been denied yet.
2) As I said, when we agree on price and goods, I make a purchase. If they start inflating that price, I'm unwilling to purchase. I'm unwilling to pay the price for BR / HD because it includes the costs of research and development of DRM technology. I'm not interested in supporting that, therefore I won't be spending money on it.
3) Where you born in like 1994? For as long as we've had recorded media, we've had the FBI warning. On most of the dvds I own, it's quite skippable, or at the very least it's fast-forwardable. And it's hardly 60 seconds. In fact, if you actually leave it on, it barely stays on long enough to be read on most films.
4) Since you are unwilling to consume media legally at any price, you're not really relevant to the conversation. Shoo, take your communistic view of life somewhere else. All your viewpoint has contributed here is that you're unwilling to purchase any media. How do media companies know the difference between 'unwilling to purchase for any reason' and 'unwilling to purchase because I don't want to support DRM'?
You seem to know me really well, except that you actually don't know me at all. Despite the fact that I thoroughly enjoy gaming, I refuse to play games that phone home in order for me to play single player. As a consequence, I've never played HL2, or any other steam-powered games.
So, regardless of what you might think, it's people like me who are going to be the reason that DRM is eventually removed from media. I'm willing to purchase media that doesn't come with these technologies. I'm willing to pay for my entertainment. I'm unwilling to tolerate DRM features. I'll not be purchasing formats that require invasive DRM. (Macrovision is the limit of what I'm willing to accept as far as DRM goes).
I'm voting with my dollars. Rather than ranting like an idiot, you should thank people like me.
I currently have no clever signature witicism to add here.