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Some 'Next-Gen' DVDs May Not Work With Vista
schnikies79 wrote to mention an article on the Times Online site, where they report that a 'substantial number' of Vista PCs will be unable to play HD-DVDs or Blu-ray discs, as a result of DRM requirements made by the operating system. From the article: "Dave Marsh, the lead program manager for video at Microsoft, said that if the PC used a digital connection to link with the monitor or television, then it would require the highest level of content protection, known as HDCP, to play the discs. If it did not have such protection, Vista would shut down the signal, he said."
If it did not have such protection, Vista would shut down the signal, he said.
At least until that crack hit's the bittorrent sites that disables this "feature".
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Some 'Next-Gen' DVDs May Not Work With Vista
EMI Considers Abandoning DRM on CDs
No Ceasefire in DVD Format Battle
Today is a good day for DRM to die...
No, please don't. Making stupid DRM'd technologies acceptable to the average end user by hacking them really does more harm than good.
I'm actually hoping the technology advances to the point where it can enforce the letter of the license *EXACTLY* so people wake up to how oppressive the various license agreements (both the Windows one and the ones for the music and movie media) are.
If people had any idea how bad it was (can't show a DVD on a college dorm shared TV because that's a public display that the DVD doesn't give you a license for ; can't install windows on VMs for testing without paying more ; etc) - they'd object much more strongly.
The current situation where it's easy to break Windows and DVD licenses just advantages unethical companies and people and hurts the ones that attempt to be law abiding.
Speculation about a yet-to-be-released operating system not being compatible with yet-to-be-released video discs on yet-to-be-released hardware? Here's a news bit for you--monkeys may fly out of my ass. News at 10 on /.
Mind-boggling.
I have to admit that even though Peter Gutmann is a respected computer security expert while I know virtually nothing about Vista, I was inclined to think his analysis just had to be wrong. He had to be misunderstanding something, or positing a hypothetical situation that would never arise with real-world commercial gear, or something like that. Microsoft simply couldn't be that stupid.
Now it turns out that he's right, and that presumably-unintended but not-unforeseeable consequences of Vista's DRM scheme will prevent it from being used in the one way you'd think Microsoft would most want it to be used. It is precisely the enthusiastic with money to devote to their video hobby who are likely to be the early adopters of PCs as home video platforms.
Microsoft is coming perilously close to providing the platform that secures protected perfectly content by preventing _anyone_ from viewing it.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Could someone please elaborate for me a Lunix/Unix/OSX system which we can get currently which would play an HD-DVD disc with the HDCP flag up without requiring HDCP compliant DRM in place within the OS?
It seems MS is being bashed for following the requirements being set forth by the media producers. Whereas a number of MS practices may be less than honorable, in this case from what I see they are simply holding to the requirements of the format standard.
All in all I think the media companies like Sony have been given enough DRM rope and are within a year or two of effectively fashioning themselves a noose from it, but that's just MHO on the topic.
I'm a fiscal conservative, it's a pity we don't have a political party anymore
I don't understand.. I buy the hardware, I buy my HD-DVD / Blu-ray disk, after kitting my computer out with an expensive player, just to be told that I have to watch the video in a crap resolution. I personally consider this inexcusable. If they could at least guarantee that legal copies will work, then I couldn't care less what DRM protection they have, but to be told that my hardware, designed for playing high definition disks wont play high definition disks, is just absurd.
Yeah, but it's not just monitors. Like the parent said, every piece of equipment that the data passes through must be HDCP-enabled, right? And this situation isn't entirely Microsoft's fault, now is it? The OS claims support for HDCP, so it must fully support the standard.
What people are whining and complaining about is that Microsoft is actually following a standard. These same people are the ones that complain when Microsoft doesn't follow other standards like CSS2. It's just that the standard they are following happens to be one that implements DRM, and now they're going on about how "Oh, gee, they fully-implemented the standard!"
*sigh*
Here's the answer: don't buy HD-DVDs and BDs that require HDCP. Duh. Vote with your feet. If enough people really put their money where their mouth is (as opposed to what they normally do, which is just paying lip-service), and truly advocated that others do the same, it will make a difference. Sadly, most people are so weak in their convictions that when their favorite movie comes out requiring HDCP, they will just buy it no matter what.
My blog
This is slashdot, and still we aren't really sure how HDCP works. I fear the worst for Joe Blow consumer.
"Flee at once, all is discovered."
I don't have an HD TV, nor do I really have intent to get one in the next year. Same goes for the HD players.
As long as studios treat me like a video copying pirate, why should I give them more money?
What's the deal with my TV and my DVD player needing to authenticate to each other, and the signal from one to the other being encrypted to be sent the few mere feet down the cable? I bought the disk, I bought the player and the television. Do I have to ask -permission- to watch this stuff now?
I don't buy DVDs much, if at all anymore. At most one every three or four months. I used to get one or two a week.
And then I ran out of content that I wanted to purchase.
But I guess to the studios, the fact that I stopped buying movies, doesn't mean "I don't like what pablum you are shoving at me" it means "He must be pirating movies"
No, it means that I find the shit you are cranking out displeasing, and I'm spending my money elsewhere...
I'll invest in the next generation (and that's what it is, when you look at the costs of it) of entertainment, when I find "next gen" entertainment worth my money.
To Microsoft: Steve, Bill, you gotta implement DRM in your OS, or your users aren't going to be watching HDCP movies through it.
To Apple: Mr Jobs, you're a stand up guy, tell you what, your OS can completely ignore the HDCP bit and give your users that warm snuggly cosy feeling of feeling like they've stuck it to the man.
It ain't going to happen. OSX will have the same DRM for HDCP content as Vista, because it's the studios who want their content protected (whatever you think about that), and that's the start of the chain.
Yes, but the problem appears to be that Vista won't output HD over a digital link regardless of whether HDCP is turned on or not. Further Sony has stated that they are NOT intending on releasing HDCP enabled discs until at least 2010. In other words, MS did indeed screw up. Vista should allow the signal to go out over a digital connection unless the HDCP flag is set on the media itself.
Not good.
No Comment.
New 1080p HD TV: $2,500
Vista OS Upgrade: $150
Card and cable for streaming HD A/V to TV: $180
Internal Blueray Drive: $900
Blueray movie: $40
Not being able to view legally purchased media on legally purchased hardware because of arbitrary content restrictions: $3770 apparently.
All prices approximate but realistic. Thanks Hollywood and Microsoft, obviously the consumer is king!
-- I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist. It's not my fault that life sucks so much. --
This is one of a long list of reasons that I won't be upgrading to Vista or HD-DVD/BluRay in the forseeable future. The sad thing for all of the companies involved is that I usually am an early adopter of technology.
I was one of the first people I knew to own a Tivo, DVD-player and an HD set (okay, I didn't own the set but I pressured my dad into buying one and he was really happy with it). I bought a copy of XP pretty much as soon as it was available. Last count, I owned nearly 500 DVDs.
And that's about as far as my relationship with these companies go. I--a legitimate, paying customer--am unwilling to be inconvenienced one single second, or pay a single extra dollar, to be treated like a criminal. I simply won't do it. So I'll continue buying DVDs until they stop manufacturing them, hopefully by which point this whole fiasco will have blown over.
I currently have no clever signature witicism to add here.
Ok..let me spell out my point AC since you are going to focus on a link...
At some point, Linux will be able to play these discs because the DRM will be cracked. When that day comes, I will not have the restrictions at the OS level that you will. Until that day comes, I won't be purchasing either of these restrictive technologies. Like I said, enjoy your Vista.
"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
- Popular Mechanics, 1949
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943
"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
-Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates, 1981
"Anyways, there is no way to play HD-DVD or Blu-Ray disks in Linux." Ever. =P
-AC Slashdot, 01/09/07
You do know that Apple and OSX will have exact same DRM requirements as Vista to play HD-DVD/B-R content that have the HDCP flag enabled. That this is a requirement in this particular media standard that any player (including standalone non-computer based players) will need to follow to be able to play it (outside of a cracked version for Linux maybe). So following your logic, OSX is collapsing as well, or will not be able to play these discs at all.
Argh. Blogger is down. Paraphrase: Human beings are inherently and irreparably analog. Until there are digital, encrypted inputs into our brains, the analog hole will always be (as it always has been) the human interface. End of story. Game, set, match. Trying to close the analog hole is like trying to rake water uphill. It's not gonna happen, and it's just costing the consumer more money - every dollar that the industry spends on making piracy harder is just another dollar that the legal, paying consumer will have to help them recuperate (read: price hikes for paying customers). Enough of this, already. Vote with your wallet. NEVER buy HD content in DRM encumbered formats.
exactly. In 2 years, when these players are in a not-insignificant number of homes. A reasonably popular release will have that content bit "accidentally" turned on. Depending upon the uproar over that "accident", the studios will decide when to fully impliment it.
11 was a racehorse
12 was 12
1111 Race
12112
Was that clear enough? The media companies require digital signals to use HDCP, regardless of whether the Image Constraint Token is there.
You can get full resolution HD video right now if you don't have an HDCP digital connection by using analog outputs, whether that be on your HD-DVD player, BlueRay player, or computer. This is because the ICT is not enabled. In the future they MAY enable it. In that case, those without a digital connection with HDCP do not get full resolution HD video.
I know its a matter of course to bash anything Microsoft, and especially anything Vista, but for Christ's sakes, find some valid points to bash them on. This isn't one of them.
Yeah, but if "Mah movie don' work.", I'm going to demand a refund. If 1,001 rednecks go into WorstBuy saying "Mah movie don' work.", they will be very PO'd about having to return all that money, and just might quit carrying the offensive DVDs.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
You'll get an inadvertent consumer revolution in the form of a wave of returned merchandise from your mouth breathers at Best Buy. They'll leave the store perhaps only barely conscious of the effect they just had on the whole DRM issue by returning the DRM-managed paperweights they bought- paperweights that had pretended to be computers and high end electronics in the store.
Gods, I hope so. But I'm just too old and cynical to think it'll play out that way. Most likely (IMHO at least), you'll have salesweasels saying, "Oh, but your new movie would work if you bought the compatible monitor! Just look at that picture - it really is worth it."
A lot of this whole DRM war isn't just about controlling content. It's about getting the consumer base to buy yet another round of hardware to do the same damn thing their current hardware already does.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
You mean like how none of us bought DivX and Circuit City finally gave up?
Naw, it could never happen. These giant corporations control everything. They use advertising to force us to buy their stuff, and we have no control at all over them!