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Microsoft Worried OEM 'Craplets' Will Harm Vista
elsilver writes "An article at the CBC indicates that Microsoft is worried that the assorted crap most OEM companies load onto a new machine may affect users' opinion of Vista. An unnamed executive is concerned that the user will conclude the instability of the non-MS-certified applications is Vista's fault. Is this a serious concern, or is MS trying to bully OEMs into only including Vista-certified apps? As for the OEMs, one "removed older DVD-writing software they found was incompatible and replaced it with Vista's own software." — do they get points for realizing it was both buggy AND redundant?"
Part of the reason for this is because I don't want to upgrade to Vista within 18 months, which I'll pretty much have to if I don't have an easy way to downgrade. However, even without Vista on the horizon I'd be doing this. The reason is that even buying PC's aimed squarely at businesses through business suppliers, I wind up with OEM builds which have all sorts of odd things on them. For instance:
Because of Microsoft's leaning on these vendors, I can't get a straight, simple Windows install CD with these PCs. Instead, I get an automatic "system restore" CD which includes all this extra rubbish. And the product key on the PC only works with CDs supplied by the vendor.
So what I'm working on now is my own automatic-building CD which installs a plain, boring Windows setup, handles drivers and installs basic stuff like office. I've spent the last 3 days on this solid, and it's soul destroying. You wind up spending half the day watching Windows install, getting to the end and finding that you made some simple mistake and now it's back to fix that, recreate the CD and try again. Ghost isn't really an option, as I've got more different hardware configurations than I know what to do with and I don't have the budget to replace every single desktop and laptop in one go.
I wish. Their listed example "MDG" has a history of preloading whatever they feel like it and then giving AOL your credit card number so they can bill you in three months whether you even use AOL or not. "We don't go into your account sir so we cannnot know if you used it or not"
I'm not sure whose side I'm on with this one.. on one hand I could see where OEMs would want to preload with useful utilities but on the other hand they often go far beyond that and install outright crap. Even with XP I've gotten a lot of business by showing up at people's houses or offices and uninstalling some strange DVD burning software that was barely tolerable with windows 98 but now it just crashes XP and doesn't work even half way as well as the cd burning wizard that is built into XP.
you should have read the article(well, at least in greater detail). One of the first points was that they would like to except now everyone will scream anti-trust against them. They aren't in any way able to enforce that(or, I bet, even openly put any kind of pressure on a computer company to do it). MS used to try to control the end user experience. They weren't looked on too favorably for that.
The simplest solution already used by hundreds of users of newly purchased laptops and desktops with Windows XP is the PC Decrapifier. Originally named the Dell De-Crapifier the name was soon changed to support other machines "with crap" (I'm sure Dell didn't like their name dragged through the crap).
Although this is only for XP, I'll bet a version for Vista will come along soon. Or at least one could hope.
Linux Resources
It's been in the Jagon File for ages..
$ cat /dev/random > /dev/mem /dev/mem: Permission denied
bash:
As for the forkbomb, have a look at "ulimit -u"
I agree with you that it's not always the OS fault, but a _properly configured_ operating system should not become unstable when it is running crappy code.
How do you do "ulimit -u" on Windows btw?
-- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz
"The same feeling that people in Europe that have been provided with the XP-E edition ( no media player ) think that XP is shit because it cannot read a stupid AVI file."
This is ignorant bullshit. The sans-WMP version was aimed at OEMs who would then install an other player (since, you know, that was the fucking point of it all) so the user would receive a computer that has a media player. The chances that an end user would end up buying an "Edition N" (since that's how it's called) are rather slim and most probably he would have to get out of his way to get one.
(Also, from what I have seen, in a default Win XP install WMP probably is not able to play DivX/Xvid encoded avis.)
Real life is overrated.
The discussion revolves around:
Vista. An unnamed executive is concerned that the user will conclude the instability of the non-MS-certified applications is Vista's fault.
Bloatware != Unstable programs.
Unstable programs != Unstable OS
(exception: kernel mode drivers)
Your attitude will change immediately
/ 23/45481.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2003/12
I think you're missing the point. The crapware was subsidizing your purchase. If he doesn't include it, he either loses the money, or he passes the difference along to the customer.
Think of all the people who talk about how they'd be willing to pay for tv shows without commercials (regardless of whether they'd actually shell out or not). Do you make the same argument in that case?
JOIN US FOR PONG!
The ulimit is a property of each process which is passed on to any children that it spawns. This works for any program, not just a shell. There is no reason why you can't ulimit your window manager: then, every program it launches will also be subject to the same resource limits.
>north
You're an immobile computer, remember?
Quicktime point well taken.
However. How many of these apps automatically load on startup? I don't ever remember OmniOutliner or ComicChat starting up every single time I start up.
Want to remove iLife, OmniOutliner, etc? Drag them to the trash. Empty trash. Try removing Dell Media App, Dell Quick Sets, RealPlayer and AOL on XP and tell me how long it takes.
Oh... and Apple at least still bundles the Install DVD so you can go to a completely blank slate if you really want to.
Microsoft recently bought them out, but sysinternals usually has the answer to things like this:
l ities/Autoruns.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/uti
It enumerates pretty much everything set to launch at start up and gives you the option to turn it off.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
You can buy a barebones laptop from, for example, ASUS.
Also, Alienware PCs and Laptops are supposedly free of bloatware.
Just for anyone who doesn't know, check out Mike Lin's Startup Monitor and Startup Control Panel for a nice solution.
This sig all sigs devours
'... all the assorted crap OEMs load...'
Hmm.
* Windows Media Player
* Windows Movie Maker
* CD burning wizard
* Zip files wizard
* Outlook Express (you try explaining why it's needed on a server OS, or removing it...)
* MSN
* Windows Messenger
I'm sure I've missed something, please feel free to enlighten me.
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
in /etc/security/limits.conf
@users soft nproc 100
@users hard nproc 150
no more fork bomb.
Maybe. Not sure if this is the case for laptops.
This is true for the laptops as well. I don't remember who the OEM is off the top of my head, but Dell does not manufacturer any computers.
Possibly true with their low-end desktop units, but definately not the case with their laptops, especially the higher end ones. In fact, their parts often remain uniform and consistent across multiple product families. (for example, Inspiron 8000,8100, and 8200 all using a compatible video card interface)
The only nonuniformity I've seen within a (lapto) product family that isn't explicitly stated by a new model number for a peripheral (e.g. NVidia 7800 Go vs. 7900GS, Dell 350 vs. 355 Bluetooth module) is the hard drive and possibly the display, although I have found Dell displays to always be good (as long as you stick with TrueLife or UltraSharp variants, not the junky lowend stuff.)
You are confusing same part, with same chipset. Dell has specs for the different components of a computer and they are purchased from the cheapest provider at the time. So you have multiple manufacturers building to the same spec. They will use the defined chipset, and the defined interfaces, but they are different boards.
We ordered some Dell's for project PCs (so IT didn't get to touch them), all the same model with the same options (and this is from the business, not personal side of the house). There were never more than three of the six with the same component in them. The manufacturers of the motherboard, hard drives, optical drives, etc. were not consistent among the six computers.
-dave
/., where "Apple and Google provide Iran with nukes" will be refuted with "But Microsoft is a convicted monopolist"
Um, no. Do you really want a trial version of MusicMatch, trial version of Yahoo! Games, trial versions of Anti-Virus, AOL Online links, Earthlink Links, eGames links, a crappy productivity suite (well ok this might not count as it's generally a MS product....), basic trial imaging products from Corel, Quickbooks Demo, Roxio demo, Webroot SpySweeper demo...etc...
x ?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DYCWJS3&s=dhs
I'm not kidding either: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.asp