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The Power of the Hacking Community

Posted by Zonk on from the look-at-things-sideways dept.

narramissic writes "In the world of business software, vendors routinely offer tools to help developers customize applications. Not so in the consumer space, where TiVo and Xbox are notable exceptions. This article offers and interesting look at what companies have to gain — and lose — by embracing the hacker community. From the article: 'One example is TiVo Inc., founded in 1997 to develop digital video technology that allows users to record TV shows. TiVo, based on Linux, is an extensible platform, and from its early days the company welcomed hackers and professional developers. "When we first came out no one knew what DVR was," said Richard Bullwinkle, vice president of products at entertainment networking company Mediabolic Inc., and formerly a senior member of TiVo's product marketing team. "So we made it hacker friendly."'"

22 of 92 comments (clear)

  1. Gaming mod community by HappySqurriel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Much like the modding community with Videogames, if you produce an excellent product that is highly 'hackable' you will benefit from higher sales based off of free work others have done for you; at the same time though, if you produce an average or bad product that is highly 'hackable' few people will notice it ever existed.

    Basically, make your product good first then worry about whether you want people to modify it or not.

    1. Re:Gaming mod community by Jacek+Poplawski · · Score: 3, Informative

      Doom and Sims are perfect examples of this.

    2. Re:Gaming mod community by Apocalypse111 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even better - Half-Life. Remember, CounterStrike used to be just a lowly user-made mod for the original HL.

      --
      There is no mod option "-1: Disagree" for a reason. "Overrated" is not an acceptable substitute. Post something instead.
    3. Re:Gaming mod community by hitmark · · Score: 3, Informative

      doom? hardly hackable (out of the box at least) compared to quake ;)

      the game itself was a mess of epic proportions. but it had this built in programming language called quakeC.

      in many ways ID did a stupid thing when they moved to visual-C++ and similar for quake2, as i believe a lot of people modded quake because the tools where available free of charge.

      hell, try out the original firearms mod for quake. its basically a gun customization mod where you can try out different real life guns in their various incarnations. just the M4 have clip, barrel, stock and sight mods, with 3+ variants for each locations.

      the later games have had limited weapon slots. i believe that quake had no such limitations...

      nothing like firing up the old beast with a new binary and get some insane rendering effects ;)

      and when you can play a real time warhammer 40000 mod thats 99% faithful to the rules (using dice checks to see if you hit and so on) it just shows what people where doing back then.

      still, it appears that recently there are mods like garrys mod (or something like that) for hl2, and a kind of real time nethack for doom3 (complete with random level layouts) that shows people are going back to creativity with the recent games.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
  2. In other words... by Wilson_6500 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "When we first came out no one knew what DVR was.... So we made it hacker friendly."

    Basically, they aimed it squarely at the "early adopter" segment so that they would spread the word.

  3. Xbox hacking by PHPee · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm trying my best not to sound like a Microsoft hater, but the summary/article makes it sound like Microsoft embraces the hacking community with open arms. In the article, reference is made to XNA, which is a framework Microsoft released that allows developers to create games for Windows and the Xbox 360. However, in order to develop for the 360, you need to pay to subscribe to their "XNA Creators Club". XNA also comes with a bunch of restrictions pertaining to the distribution of games created with it.

    I don't really see this as "hacking" compared to all the independent work that's been done on the original Xbox. There, you see things like Xbox Media Center, which is something I would consider a cool and useful hack, made by a community of like-minded hobbyists.

    The Tivo part of the article was a much better example of the power of the hacking community.

    1. Re:Xbox hacking by JMZero · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Meh - at least there's some "legitimate" way to do development. I've done hobby development for a bunch of platforms, but it's never really been fully above board (ie. to develop for the Nintendo DS I flashed my firmware and used a gray-market flash cartridge). With very few exceptions (Dreamcast) it's always been difficult to distribute homebrew console apps. At least with the 360 there's the intimation that eventually there'll be a workable distribution path. In the meantime, getting started with XNA is free and it works pretty well (from my very limited testing).

      While the 360 isn't exactly "designed to be hackable", I think MS deserves some credit for giving developers anything. Any fiddling I do with XNA and the 360 is more than I'd be doing with a Wii.

      (Also, it's worth noting that the built-in media player on the 360 works pretty good (though it means an extra step of transcoding via VLC). I watch TV shows off my computer using it all the time. This was a big factor in me purchasing the thing as now I have only one device hooked up to the projector and it plays DVD's, games, and content from the computer. My wife is much happier with this setup.)

      --
      Let's not stir that bag of worms...
  4. Sounds familiar... by sammy+baby · · Score: 5, Funny
    "When we first came out no one knew what DVR was," said Richard Bullwinkle, vice president of products at entertainment networking company Mediabolic Inc., and formerly a senior member of TiVo's product marketing team. "So we made it hacker friendly."'"


    "Hey Rocky! Watch me pull a brand new consumer electronics must-have out of this hat!"

    "Aw, that trick never works!"

    *ROOOOAR!*

    "I gotta get a new hat!"
  5. No kidding by ricree · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sony Corp. has been too strict about preventing users from playing around with hacks into products like the PlayStation Portable, Bullwinkle and other panelists agreed. Even though the PSP modding community has had to fight Sony every step of the way, they've still been able to do some pretty cool things. COuld you imagine what might have happened if they actually had been able to just do what they wanted, or even been encouraged by Sony? There might actually be a reason for someone to buy one of them.

  6. Hmm...an interesting thought. by Pojut · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Say a company created a console with the sole intent of KNOWING people were going to hack it. I can udnerstand the companies wanting to prevent people from playing downloaded ISO's, but that's not what I'm referring to. I'm refering to the Xbox DVR or Linux Box, things like that.

    If word gets out into the hacking community that the new Gametron 3000 is designed in such a way to ENCOURAGE people to muck with the innards...well, it might do something good.

    Take the PS3 for example. Nearly every discussion on the PS3 has the fact that linux is easily loaded to it popping up. It's a shame there is so much negative thinking about the system...in fact, in retrospect, the PS2 was rather simple as well.

    HDAdvance + Network Adapter + 200 gig hard drive = fun. Add in a flip top, and it's even more fun. (Altho sony seemed to learn from that mistake by making a slot-loading mechanism this time)

    Something that I find to be funny, and something I have noticed few people think about: a PC or laptop is basically a tool that is sold that encourages people to fuck with it...it's a blank slate, a universal tool to be done with whatever someone wants. No restrictions, no nothing (unless of course you are trying to overclock most brand name computers).

    Interesting to think about things like that...

    --
    Living With a Nerd
    1. Re:Hmm...an interesting thought. by MBCook · · Score: 4, Informative

      They exist. They are not nearly as advanced as even the PS1 in most respects, but they exist.

      The X Games Station was the first that I know of. Not terrifically powerful, but there, and designed by Andre LaMothe.

      Then there is the recently released HYDRA (which I can't find the official link for) which is based on the Parallax Propeller chip which is like the Cell in that it has 8 SPEs so it's very multiprocessor but you can do all sorts of interesting things. Obviously, it's no where near as powerful though. This was also designed by Andre LaMothe.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
  7. Mutual Respect by twistedsymphony · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think another important aspect in this... and keeping with the TiVo/Xbox theme. TiVo embrased the hacking community, they made their product hackable, and that gained TiVo a lot of respect from the hackers. So while TiVo makes some money from the fact that you have to buy a subscription to their TV listings the hacking community has pretty much ignored trying to screw over TiVo by circumventing the paying for the service. TiVo is happy, and the hackers are happy and the consumer gets a powerful and customizable product.

    On the Xbox, the Xbox Linux people pushed and asked nicely for an official distro so they could customize the box. Microsoft refused and as a result the security holes were all blown way out into the open. MS didn't embrace the hacking community, they resisted it and as a result not only is their product hacked it's also insecure and allows games to be pirated very easily. The hacking community satisfied themselves regardless of MS's blessing, and MS isn't happy because their console has been exploited. I'm sure customers would also be more satisfied with the Xbox if it allowed some of the hacked features to be available legally as well.

    The moral of the story: Hackers will get their way regardless, if you resist them you'll only end up disappointed, but if you embrace them you might wind up with a superior product and it's not like you'd be loosing anything because your sh*t would get hacked regardless of your choice.

    --
    Collector's Edition
  8. Computer industry learned this long ago... by jo42 · · Score: 3, Informative

    The computer industry learned this lesson long ago with the Apple ][ and IBM PC. Everything was documented - even the source to the BIOS was available. This allowed for 3rd parties to easily create software and hardware for them. People bought the machines and then all the add ons. Somewhere along the way, this lesson was completely forgotten. The various gaming consoles and the Apple iPhone being perfect examples.

  9. Tivo breaks intent of GPL; hostile to hackers. by ChaosDiscord · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The entire point of the GPL is that hackers can modify and replace GPLed software. Tivo's hardware refuses to run modified Linux kernels, ignoring the intent of the the license they agreed to. It may be legal, but it's not morally right, and it certainly is the opposite of "embracing the hacker community." That same community that gave them the operating system they built upon. It's an insult.

    --
    Search 2010 Gen Con events
    1. Re:Tivo breaks intent of GPL; hostile to hackers. by novus+ordo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree that it's an insult to include Tivo as a hackable platform. Tivo gave rise to the term Tivoization and Tivo is *the* main reason for GPLv3. In comparison, Neuros is a much better example of a hackable platform than Tivo.

      --
      "You're everywhere. You're omnivorous."
  10. Pity about Apple then by mustafap · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A very timely posting.

    I was very excited yesterday when I heard the news of the Apple iPhone. At last! A phone I can actually control, a have my own software running on! I can integrate into voice mail and SMS!

    Not to be. Apple have, perhaps, given in to the airtime providers who want to lock us into old, expensive ways of working. While "Ring Tones" is a multi billion dollar business our mobile phones are going to remain retarded.

    I wonder if some one will create a phone that frees us from these chains, and then shows an advert in the superbowl of a 1984 style advert... like, er, Apple?

    What a pity.

    --
    Open Source Drum Kit, LPLC deve board - mjhdesigns.com
  11. Re:iPhone by 93,000 · · Score: 4, Funny

    sjobs@apple.com

    You're welcome.

    --
    Sweet informative mod.
  12. WRT54G by Metasquares · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Linksys WRT54G is an excellent example of what could be gained by making your products "hacker-friendly" (for the original, "good" meaning of hacker).

  13. Selling hardware at a loss? by Myself · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Contrast the iOpener, which was a little web terminal sold at a loss with the plan of recouping the cost by selling service subscriptions. But rather than following the cellphone model, where the hardware is only discounted if you sign up for service, they just trusted that nobody would buy the hardware without also buying service.

    When hackers realized it was a generic PC and started buying them en masse, iOpener responded by smearing glue on the circuit board, changing the BIOS, and generally sticking their head in the sand. Linksys got it right with the WRT54GL: sell the good hardware directly to hackers at a fair price.

    Today, iOpener is but a sad little footnote in the annals of hardware-hacker history, while the WRT54G(L) is riding high.

    Every once in a while, I get angry at hackers who aim to make Xbox or PSP hardware more useful by imbuing it with software that doesn't suck. "Why would you aid the enemy by embracing their hacker-hostile business?", I agonize. Then I remember that those game systems are sold at a loss. Awesome. :)

  14. Dreambox DVB set-top boxes / DVRs by znark · · Score: 3, Informative

    One of the interesting hackable Linux-based products on the European market (available in America, too, but only as a sat receiver version) is the Dreambox family of digital set-top boxes and PVRs.

    Dreamboxes are DVB set-top boxes that can, depending on the model, ...

    • ...receive over-the-air (DVB-T) terrestrial digital broadcasts (better known with the moniker "Freeview" in the UK)
    • ...and/or satellite broadcasts (DVB-S)
    • ...and/or digital cable (DVB-C)

    ...and record the MPEG-2 Transport Stream data either to an internal HDD, or to a network share (NFS, CIFS), without restrictions. The better models have two tuners, so you can record from two MUXes simultaneously. The firmware images are Linux-based and typically have a web interface, telnet server, ssh server, busybox shell, samba server, etc. There are various unofficial, enhanced firmware images for the various Dreambox models - with user-written plugins, etc. - and a thriving (if a bit too diverse and decentralized) user community.

    The manufacturer (Dream Multimedia GmbH) is supportive of unofficial development. (Hackability is one of the main selling points of their whole set-top box product range.)

  15. Misleading Summary by mpapet · · Score: 4, Informative

    In case you didn't know Tivo is at least one of the parties to blame for starting a GPL V3 by creating a novel way to simultaneously privatize a Linux-based OS and keep it out of the hands of hackers. It's called tivoization http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoization and it's a novel form of theft.

    The summary is propaganda at best.

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
  16. Re:hacking by Lagmo · · Score: 3, Informative

    Indeed Linksys(and hence Cisco) does seem to have embraced the enhusiast modding community the NLSU2 is quite popular too.
    I think the cases used in the article are poor examples of 'hacker' friendly hardware & companies. Companies like Linksys, Dream Multimedia and Gamepark(GP2X) seem much more dedicated to allowing free access to their hardware.
    A lot of game developers saw the potential a long time ago and we have quite a few good games that are still great today because of it. Only thing that can be hard sometimes is to find out where to start out or indeed which hardware is open to modding.
    Thankfully there's people like http://www.bsodtv.org/ to help out those who feel a bit lost.