Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Political Strife Erupts in Second Life

Posted by Zonk on from the getting-hot-in-there dept.

covert.c writes "A real-life drama in the political world has spilled over into the virtual, as the Second Life headquarters of France's controversial Front National political party fell to violent protesters. The anti-FN activists, who had armed themselves with slogans, placards and weapons, leveled the digital buildings occupied by Front National. Second Life is often home to established political and social movements. It seems logical that opposing forces would also choose to make SL their stage."

156 comments

  1. Uhm... by Bonker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Since when do MMO players need politics as an excuse for grief play?

    --
    The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
    1. Re:Uhm... by F-3582 · · Score: 1

      Ever seen Wargames?

  2. French Front National? Splitters! by spun · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wait, we're the French Front National? I thought we were the National French Front. Oh, that's him over there is it? Splitter!

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:French Front National? Splitters! by Cycon · · Score: 1, Funny

      You should so read this xkcd comic:


      http://www.xkcd.com/c16.html

      Nothing personal, but between your quote and the sig...

      --
      Your Brain + EEG + LEGO Robots = Brainstorms
    2. Re:French Front National? Splitters! by soft_guy · · Score: 2

      xkcd rules. It is the best comic strip.

      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
  3. Some are more equal than others... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    So the protesters stoop to violence and destruction of (virtual) property in their aim to stop the FN from exercising their basic human right of free speech and political representation.

    FN claims to be a bulwark against the encroaching tide of terrorism and violent radicals. Attacks like this just prove them right.

    1. Re:Some are more equal than others... by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 5, Funny
      Violence? Destruction?

      It's pixels on a fucking screen. It's not a life, second or otherwise.
      If you're going to be outraged, at least be consistent and mourn the thousands of times I've died at the hands of twink campers in World of Warcraft.

      --
      This space available.
    2. Re:Some are more equal than others... by Panaflex · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Hrm.. is it merely a game, or a pretext towards a more radical real world?

      Comments like "it's unacceptable to debate" seem rather more like Hitler's goons. Truly scary if that's the future of France.. and perhaps Europe.

      --
      I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
    3. Re:Some are more equal than others... by taniwha · · Score: 1
      some of that seems that way, others seem to have done the "the best way to deal with speech you don't like is not censorship but more speech" thing by errecting their own signs - I don't think you should tar them all with the same brush

      Of course if the LePennists show up and set up shop and 100,000 other people come along and erect their own signs is it democracy and free speech or censorship? I tend to fall on the democracy/more speech is better than less world view

    4. Re:Some are more equal than others... by arbarbonif · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Of course life is just a collection of atoms in an untidy heap.

      That said, I hate getting ganked.

    5. Re:Some are more equal than others... by uofitorn · · Score: 1

      If you're going to be outraged

      I did not get the impression that he was outraged.

      --
      "What kind of music do pirates listen to?" -Paul Maud'dib
      "Yeeeaaarrrrr n' Bee!!" -Stilgar, Leader of Sietch Tabr
    6. Re:Some are more equal than others... by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1
      So the protesters stoop to violence and destruction of (virtual) property in their aim to stop the FN from exercising their basic human right of free speech and political representation.

      "Virtual" property? No such thing.

      In a computer game, strafing a "building" with "gunfire" is just an act of expression. It's a purely symbolic realm.

      The "violence" and "destruction" is no more real than in a Quake deathmatch. (Yeah, I should probably use a more contempory example, but I'm old. You kids today with your MMORPGs...)

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    7. Re:Some are more equal than others... by hey! · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You raise an interesting question.

      If Second Life is a role playing game, then the attackers are just playing a different side.

      So: when a real political organization establishes a presence in a game as themselves, do they get the same protections for their virtual activities (including speech) that they do for their real activities? If people silence them and destroy their assets in the game is it the same as taking the same actions outside the game?

      I'd say no. There is a difference between actions in a virtual world and the real one, even if the parties are the same and the motivations are the same and the actions are parallel. What matters in the virtual world is the terms of service. If the attackers did not violate the terms of service set by the provider, then they were within their rights, which are completely defined by the provider. If you don't like it, you go to a different provider.

      You have no such choice of real worlds.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    8. Re:Some are more equal than others... by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1

      He's not outraged. He's virtually outraged---on Slashdot.

      --
      http://outcampaign.org/
    9. Re:Some are more equal than others... by MrShaggy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As horrible and disgusting as this sounds, tis is something that I almost understand the why, but not much after.

      There were a number of rogue nations, and groups, like the KKK, Hitlers youth, etc. etc. The recently held a conference in a mid-eastern state (Iran I believe). They were there to discuss the idea that the holocaust never happened.

      They were in this country, to say that because of their Countries laws surrounding denying that this ever happened, or even to talk about in the streets, is trampling on their rights to free speech.

      Like I said, I can understand why they are thinking like that. It stems that some ideas are better then others. I wonder if this is becoming like anything else that the more they try to tighten these people, the more these people will fight back.

      I can understand why Germany is afraid of these white-supremacy ideas. The trouble is that you might force them underground even more, where you can't see them. Any time you arrest someone for something they thought, they become a martyr (in that sort of way).

      I don't want hate speech either, but as long as it isn't acted on, there shouldn't be any reason to step on it.

      In the game world is a reflection of what we do here. In some games, yah its nothing but fun. In others people are destroying what you created. But at ;least both parties feel that they can stand for what they believe in. Thats the good thing, and no-one got hurt in the process. hmmmm Maybe someone should build a White-House, so we Canadians can come and burn it down again.

      --
      I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them.
    10. Re:Some are more equal than others... by orgelspieler · · Score: 1

      The conference you are referring to took place in mid December, and it was not just for "hate" groups. According to the NPR coverage I listened to, there were even some Jews (Satmars) in attendance, as well. They were not all claiming that the Holocaust never happened. Some were claiming that it wasn't as bad as the Jews claim. Others agreed that it happened, but they didn't believe it should have been used as justification for Israel's creation. Still others were like you, just trying to express their outrage at the supression of free speech in so-called civilized nations like France.

      It seems so stupid to me to claim that these people weren't killed by the millions. Maybe that is because I have seen the ovens and the wrought iron "ARBEIT MACHT FREI" of the gates. But I still have to support the rights of people to speak freely. If what they say is false, then let us proclaim the truth and provide proof, rather than suppress others.

      Of course Holocaust deniers are similar to flat-earth believers and moon landing conspiracy buffs. No matter how much evidence you throw at them, they are not convinced. This is why it's so tempting to try to legislate them into silence. Well, if the shoes, photos, ovens, camps, claw marks in the traincars, and the tatooed arms aren't enough to convince these people, let them have their little conference. Wouldn't it be better to let them meet in some western city, rather than have them scared off to Iran where their very presence will give a semblance of credibility to whackos who already have millions of followers?

      BTW, NPR has the transcripts of the stories available for free, citing "intense interest."

    11. Re:Some are more equal than others... by Clock+Nova · · Score: 1

      What you saying makes perfect, logical sense, of course. But I can think of at least one circumstance in which the law (US law, anyway) would probably not honor that distinction. If you were to select as your avatar an adult male (or female, for that matter) and then proceeded to molest or rape (if such is possible in SL) someone whose avatar happened to resemble a young child, you would technically be in violation of the laws governing pedophilia. The law does not care if actual children were harmed, or were even involved. Merely the suggestion of pedophilia is enough. Although, IANAL, you understand. But this is why even art, digital or otherwise, which depicts acts of pedophilia is illegal.

      So, if that case can be argued, seems like someone could try and make the argument for the use of violence and the destruction of virtual property in SL. They may might not win, though.

      --
      There they were, sitting in the van with all those dials, and the cat was dead. -V. Marchetti, CIA
  4. Sadly... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 5, Funny

    You need a third life to get away from the politics.

  5. Amazing by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Wikipedia makes them look like a sort of "wind back the clock" party. I'm amazed that they were even willing to have a headquarters in second life. They seem to be very protectionist and provincial. Their general delegate was suspended from his professorial position for five years for historical revisionism. The founded had to pay 1.2M francs (~200k Euros) for the same sort of thing, claiming the Germans' occupation "hadn't been so inhumane". (I don't agree with this lack of freedom of speech in France, but they're kind of a nasty country anyway, with cops wearing masks so they can't be identfied in court and the like.) I mean, Le Pen would actually like to evict all non-european immigrants from France. I don't think doing your best to evict them from second life is actually wrong. FN has basically declared war, and at the same time diluted the name of my favorite Belgian arms manufacturer. I say string 'em up! (digitally)

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:Amazing by OECD · · Score: 1

      The founded had to pay 1.2M francs (~200k Euros) for the same sort of thing, claiming the Germans' occupation "hadn't been so inhumane". (I don't agree with this lack of freedom of speech in France, but they're kind of a nasty country anyway, with cops wearing masks so they can't be identfied in court and the like.)

      Souds like he may have been on to something...

      --
      One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
    2. Re:Amazing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have obviously lived there to know so well that it is "kind of a nasty country".

      Or at least thoroughly researched your opinion.

      Or are just one of the millions recycling half understood snippets from misleading news sources, distinguished from those in Europe doing so merely by the coincidental name of the country being bashed.

      Right?

  6. Funny how it's always the Left by M1rth · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    who go to violence and insist that anyone who disagrees with them shouldn't be allowed to speak, while paradoxically insisting that their own "right to free speech" is paramount.

    --
    If you can read this sig, congratulations, you have your glasses on!
    1. Re:Funny how it's always the Left by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 2, Funny

      Good point. Next time you hear some damned hippie complaining about NSA wiretapping, abu ghraib, guantanimo bay, and the loss of habeus corpus, make sure to come back at them by pointing to this outrageous violent attack.

      --
      This space available.
    2. Re:Funny how it's always the Left by darqit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How do you figure its always the left that resorts to violence? quite a claim you're making there. I won't deny that there are leftist groups who resort to violence, but there are also right wing groups which do the same. They are called extremists. They are on both sides of the scale.

      As for the right to free speech. You should look up where it came from. It's a liberal principle. If it's from either side of the scale it would be more right than left.

      Furthermore stating someone isn't allowed to speak because it doesn't fit in with your own views is politics 1 on 1

    3. Re:Funny how it's always the Left by +PhilipMarlowe9000 · · Score: 1

      Mussolini and Hitler (the best known examples of the uber-right extremists) weren't liberals, so far as I remember; furthermore, "right" can have many meanings depending on the context or nation. As for Second Life, I'm waiting for some guys to stage a coup, steal everything, and install a military dicatorship. Then the virtual resistance would begin, and the virtual counter-coup and so on....

      --
      My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music. Vladimir Nabokov
    4. Re:Funny how it's always the Left by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, I had no idea the fanatic Muslims were so hard left, what with their riots and lynching and assassinated 3 year olds while paradoxically insiting that they're not "violent".

  7. I have just one question. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Who surrendered?

    1. Re:I have just one question. by spun · · Score: 1, Funny

      Well, it was the French fighting the French, so I'm guessing the French surrendered. Which means the French won, which common sense tells us is impossible, so logically that means that rather than the French, it was actually the French who surrendered... Wait...

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    2. Re:I have just one question. by dbIII · · Score: 4, Funny

      If the French never won America would be a monarchy run by a King named George - hang on - you may be right.

    3. Re:I have just one question. by virg_mattes · · Score: 1

      > If the French never won America would be a monarchy run by a King named George - hang on - you may be right.

      Actually, the French didn't win the American Revolution, they just made it so that the Americans could. The French contribution was that their presence made fighting in the New World so costly that the British simply could not continue the conflict, lest they start losing stuff to the French for real. But, in realistic terms, since the American colonies were not lost to the French it can't be said that the French won the American Revolution.

      Still, if you want to go that far back, wasn't there some guy back in the day from France who did some decent fighting? I think his name was Napoleon, but I could be wrong.

      Virg

    4. Re:I have just one question. by dbIII · · Score: 1

      It's just the "you ungrateful sods we saved your country" silliness cuts both ways - freedom fries or not.

    5. Re:I have just one question. by spun · · Score: 1

      Napoleon was from Corsica. Not trying to knock the French fighting abilities or anything, my above joke being more of an attempt at absurdism than a poke at the French. However, Napoleon was French only by technicality, the island of Corsica having been transfered from Genoa to France the year before he was born.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  8. Second life needs to take it down a few notches by ILuvRamen · · Score: 1

    you gotta wonder when the first real-world conflict (aka war) would start from something that happened in Second Life. Those ppl take it way too seriously. I wouldn't even put it past the North Koreans to invade South Korea so they can steal all the silk from Silkroad Online (an MMORPG) That crazy leader guy has kidnapped movie stars from south korea to make a movie that he wrote ffs! Let's hope he doesn't start playing second life.

    --
    Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
    1. Re:Second life needs to take it down a few notches by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 1, Troll

      Asians tend to set aside racial differences to pick on everyone else in MMORPGs if you haven't noticed.

      --
      I like muppets.
  9. Youtube all over again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So basically any stupid crap that happens on Second Life will instantly be newsworthy? Where did all of this hype come from?

  10. Another demonstration of the tolerance of the left by jmorris42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yup, in the left's worldview you are allowed to be any race, color, gender identity, etc. If you keep it in the closet and swear that it doesn't actually influence your behaviour you can even have a religion. But deviate from the accepted policy positions of the left and watch how little tolerance they have for that. They will violently suppress the slightest deviation from orthodox socialism.

    Compare this with the other story posted today where US leftists are aiming to revoke the 1st Amendment in their continuing efforts to suppress political dissent during campaigns, reign in unregulated bloggers, the earlier story where they want to force changes in FCC rules to eliminate dissent on the airwaves, etc.

    To a "progressive" diversity is looking as different as you want while thinking alike. Tolerance is a codeword for oppression. And of course "progressive" itself is a codeword for a retreat into failed 20th Century *isms. If anything Orwell was too optimistic.

    --
    Democrat delenda est
  11. Left vs Right? by Colin+Smith · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Really, do politics boil down to left and right? A single axis of political belief? Don't you think that's a little bit simplistic?

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:Left vs Right? by ricree · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As far as I've seen, it mostly comes down to people who want to be able to tell others what to do, and everyone else. Unfortunately, the government has gotten really full of that first type of people. This whole left and right thing is just a set of labels for the different things that they want to force down our throats.

    2. Re:Left vs Right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quit asking so many questions or I'll have my protester goon squad trash your Second Life house.

    3. Re:Left vs Right? by Ford+Prefect · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Really, do politics boil down to left and right? A single axis of political belief? Don't you think that's a little bit simplistic?

      There's always the much-maligned Political Compass - with not one but two axes to look at. I posted a link to it a long time ago, and was immediately accused of it being slanted towards the left, or even as being a part of this hateful leftist conspiracy various Slashdotters appear so concerned about.

      It's an interesting exercise anyway, even if you don't agree with its results.
      --
      Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
    4. Re:Left vs Right? by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      Really, do politics boil down to left and right?

      For most people, yes. Politics and ideology are mind cancers. Some day we may find a cure, but not for a very long time. They may be the diseases that lead to human extinction.

    5. Re:Left vs Right? by kfg · · Score: 1

      There's always the much-maligned Political Compass - with not one but two axes to look at.

      I have, in the past on some other forum, criticised it for not having three axes (as well as for being missaliged by 45 degrees). By only having two it places some individuals who were highly individual in the main sequence. Ghandi comes to mind, who was far more libertarian socially than he was politically.

      It's an interesting exercise anyway, even if you don't agree with its results.

      Well, I admit I'm not thrilled by sharing a data point with a notorious, deposed theocrat, but at least it got making me an outlier right.

      KFG

    6. Re:Left vs Right? by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

      Actually I think the electoral system forces people into thinking left-right. When you go to countries with more proportional electoral systems, they don't really have a concept of left-right.

      --
      Deleted
    7. Re:Left vs Right? by mjwx · · Score: 1, Insightful

      This is mainly US thinking.

      The left/right spectrum is vastly different in other countries such as UK and Australia, Americans in general tend to politicize thing a bit more which is why we Australians are considered to be leftist when we remove politics from most of our day to day life. Gun control isn't considered political by most Aussies.

      But in our (Australia's) political system there are left and right elements of varying degree's in both parities, which we call Labour (ALP) and Liberal (Lib) and just to confuse the issue the Liberals are our conservative party (we also have a different meaning to the word Liberal). These two parties are drawn up on the white collar/blue collar line, with Labor supporting the workers (manual labourers and the like) and the Liberals supporting businesses and their workers. Often there is no difference between the parties which leads many to call our system of government a duopoly.

      There are Left v Right battles but they are mostly internal to each party and pretty trivial.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    8. Re:Left vs Right? by Jesrad · · Score: 1

      Of course not, all good libertarians know that the correct axis is "authority / liberty".

      Similarly, all good Discordians know that the correct axis is "Entropic / Disentropic".

      --
      Maybe we deserve this world ?
    9. Re:Left vs Right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Australian definition of liberal comes from economic liberalism as described by Adam Smith in Weatlh of Nations. This is the accepted definition of liberalism in pretty much most of the world.

      The Americans use liberal to mean left-wing because socialism is just about the dirtiest word in the american language.

    10. Re:Left vs Right? by rizole · · Score: 1

      Er...You must be new...erm.

      I'll get my coat.

  12. Jack Thompson by kahanamoku · · Score: 1

    How long will it be till he makes his judgement on this game? ;-)

    --
    ----- Concentrate on promoting more than demoting.
  13. I'll have to disagree with you. by haakondahl · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Who in France would not wish to turn back the clock?

    Every night, over 100 cars are burned by the immigrants who will be the new France. The birthrate is below replacement rate. 43% of all children in France are born to unwed mothers.

    France is quietly fighting an intifada in les banlieux (sp?), and France is losing. You might say that France is a quagmire.

    If you like France the way it was, I recommend that you visit soon, and take lots of pictures. The France to come will be a Muslim nation. Some people like it that way. The Paristinians certainly would. Those who prefer the former and vanishing culture of France would like to turn back the clock.

    This is hardly anti-Islamic sentiment, although it is anti-Islamist. Mods and replies, please draw the distinction before you accuse me of something terrible. There are plenty of Islamic nations out there, but only Islamists feel that France should also become such a place.

    Are MMO games even allowed under Shari'a?

    --
    Don't trust anyone under thirty.
    1. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      100 cars a night are being burned? Didn't that stop long ago?
      Doesn't France have the highest birth rate in the EU? Last I saw it was the only EU nation with actual population growth when you subtract immigration.
      Hasn't every study of France's muslim population shown them to be the best integrated of any Western nation? Even the US.
      The most recent study I saw showed French muslims being less anti-semitic than the average American as well!

      To me what you wrote reads like the hyperbole of the stereotypical anti-immigration demagogue. You can change the subject from muslims to any other immigrant group in any other country at any other point in history. They used to say the same thing about the Poles. In the US they said the same thing about the Irish. There is no reason why the muslims will not be like every other immigrant group. It's absurd to think they will ever take over the country, France especially because it is so radically secular. The idea that any religious group would be able to impose a theocracy on France is a joke.

    2. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is the loss of the cowardly and spineless such that we lament?
      Come take home your trash indeed.

    3. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by Ford+Prefect · · Score: 1, Flamebait
      Every night, over 100 cars are burned by the immigrants who will be the new France. The birthrate is below replacement rate. 43% of all children in France are born to unwed mothers.

      IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD! UNWED MOTHERS! FILTHY, HORRIBLE IMMIGRANTS EVERYWHERE! ...

      Do you read the Daily Mail? You'd probably like it.
      --
      Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
    4. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by MBraynard · · Score: 1
      There is no reason why the muslims will not be like every other immigrant group.

      Look more carefully. Evidence to the contrary is ample. Perhaps the best example is what is happening in the Netherlands.

      What evidence do you have that they are anything like the Irish in the US? The Muslim in France is a very, very different story.

      Get out from behind your PC (both kinds).

    5. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by drapeau06 · · Score: 1
      The birthrate is below replacement rate.

      You write this like it's a problem, but it's not. World-wide, we need the birthrate to drop below replacement. If you are correct, France is just doing its part.

    6. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by mabinogi · · Score: 1

      And that from someone unwilling to put their name to their post.

      --
      Advanced users are users too!
    7. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Same issue in the southern US only it's catholic hispanics.

      Essentially, in 40 years they are going to be the majority.

      Rest of us are not breeding. I only had one child myself.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    8. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by haakondahl · · Score: 1

      Gee, I hope I don't get called a troll again, but I'll disagree with you as well.

      Developed countries do not have an overpopulation problem. Undeveloped countries do. There may come a day when the earth as a place (and a system, etc) has an overpopulation problem, and by that time, I would hope that development is not such a dicey proposition.

      But if France gives up on making French people, then there will be no France, no matter how many people immigrate from other areas. That region will then be something else where France used to be. Please see Istanbul for details.

      Can you think of a better way to help developing countries than by freeing them from unplannable family growth? All handouts do is exacerbate the problem of overpopulation by removing both incentive and ability to change the situation.

      Heh. Does Second Life have a population problem?

      --
      Don't trust anyone under thirty.
    9. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by vakuona · · Score: 2, Informative

      Birth rate dropping below replacement rate causes havoc with most countries social security systems and pensions, which were mostly built under the assumption that populations will remain stable or increase slightly for it to actually work. So unless the developed countries want to accept even more immigrants than they do already, (no complaining here, I am an immigrant myself - legal of course), then they better start having enough kids to replace their current populations.

      So unless you want to wake up one morning and find out that your pension promise is now worth nothing, you bloody slashdotters should be going out and getting laid a little more, and making babies. In the name of science (what science?) of course. Hey wait, what am I doing here?

    10. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by Knara · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While I'm not nearly conversant enough in modern French sociology to debate the finer points, I feel the need to point out that individual incidents that make the news are not enough to make a blanket claim as to the every day state of affairs, or justification for characterizing an entire segment of a society. Your line of reasoning would seem to indicate that your stance is more closely defined as bigotry instead of carefully considered concern.

    11. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by Knara · · Score: 1

      No matter. If France gives up making French people, it will just import other people and re-define French to be "them", just like they do with vocabulary every year :P

    12. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Essentially, in 40 years they are going to be the majority.

      Yeah, so what's the problem?

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    13. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      1) They play their music (heavy polka/bass beat) in their houses so loud at 2 am that you can hear it 3 blocks away.
      2) They play their music during the day so loud that you can hear it even further away.
      3) They are mostly catholic and are going to enforce catholic social values once they are in the majority.
      4) They mostly speak spanish- not english so I can't understand them.
      5) Many feel they should take the area back to Mexico and carry mexican flags when they demonstrated recently.
      6) I can deal with the pink and blue houses but it does depress property values (maybe it won't once they are in the majority).
      7) Their children tend to form gangs more than we did when we were children.
      8) They tend to favor more authoritarian governments (because of the catholicism I suspect).

      I don't - I could go on but why bother. You've already made up your mind.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    14. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by dangitman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      1) They play their music (heavy polka/bass beat) in their houses so loud at 2 am that you can hear it 3 blocks away.

      As opposed to the white folk that play their music loud at 2am?

      3) They are mostly catholic and are going to enforce catholic social values once they are in the majority.

      Just like white folk enforce their values and religion when in the majority?

      4) They mostly speak spanish- not english so I can't understand them.

      Why is that a problem? If you want to understand them, you could learn Spanish. but why do you need to understand them, anyway?

      5) Many feel they should take the area back to Mexico and carry mexican flags when they demonstrated recently.

      And what's your point?

      7) Their children tend to form gangs more than we did when we were children.

      If they are breaking the law, arrest them, just like we arrest white kids who break laws.

      8) They tend to favor more authoritarian governments (because of the catholicism I suspect).

      Any evidence of that? America already has a pretty authoritarian government.

      I don't - I could go on but why bother. You've already made up your mind.

      Well, you definitely seem to have. I'm not sure how you can infer that from my question. All I asked was "what's the problem" - I didn't even put forward a position. But your answer mostly revolved around bigotry and intolerance of others, so I don't find your reasoning to be compelling. White folk have been in a majority for a long time, and have caused all sorts of problems. Might be good to experience being a minority for once, see what it's like. Once upon a time there were no white people in America, but they didn't have any problem with becoming a majority and pushing the native people out. The whites expected the natives to learn English, not the other way around. Pretty easy to talk shit from a position of privilege.

      So, what's your solution to this "problem" that you perceive? Ban immigration?

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    15. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rest of us are not breeding. I only had one child myself.

      so, go and fuck your mother.

    16. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by ronfar · · Score: 1
      Uh-oh.


      The Catholics are coming for us!!


      Run for the hills!!


      Hmm... wait a minute. I'm Catholic, my Mom's Catholic. In fact, my Mom's side of the family is Irish Catholic. My Dad's Catholic too... German Catholics. Heck, I was an altar boy.


      So, um, why am I supposed to be scared of Catholics again? Is it because they are frothing nutcakes who want to summon forth the apocalypse so they'll be Raptured up to Heaven?


      Oh, wait, those are Protestants....

      --
      All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
    17. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by masklinn · · Score: 1

      We probably aren't living in the same france, dude.

      --
      "The way we can tell it's C# instead of Haskell is because it's nine lines instead of two." -- wadler
    18. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by albyrne5 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's happening in the Netherlands? I've been living here for the last 3 years and haven't noticed any massive changes ... perhaps I'm reading the wrong newspapers, eh?

    19. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by elrous0 · · Score: 1
      France has become a victim of its own political correctness. Too afraid to boot out the immigrants, lest they be labeled racists. Yet too mired in immigrant violence to continue to pretend it's not a problem. Quite a cage you've constructed for yourselves.

      -Eric

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    20. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      1) Yes. Apparently, the social values are that noise is okay. My neighborhood is silent as a tomb during the day and at night. My friend's neighborhood used to be. Now that it is about 40% hispanic, the noise is just constant. The police don't even try to stop it any more. They have parties in their garage with the garage door open and a big boom box inside and the party is not inside the house- it's out on the front lawn and driveway.

      3) You have a good point there. Right wing christians and left wing types are just as bad as catholics in terms of wanting to tell me how to run my life. The point tho is that catholocism is intolerant and wants to drive out other belief systems and that a large part of the culture is breeding those values into a majority.

      4) The reason america is strong as that we melt into one people. It doesnt' matter that i'm part two kinds of native americans, several kinda of european, and a tiny bit black. I'm an american. The hispanics are staying separate and the language is part the problem. English unites us as a common nation. As I said elsewhere, they view themselves as mexican and fly mexican flags. They are not americans. When 40% of them are speaking spanish, it's going to become a real problem just doing business and buying groceries. As it is, I already speak a bit of spanish just to get by in day to day life. That's absurd to me.

      5) Hmm. Do we have another part of the population that views itself as living here and wanting all the benefits of living here but still really views itself citizens of say china or italy? No. If you don't get the problem of supposed citizens walking around with flags of another nation, then there is not much I can say that's going to get through to you.

      7) The law can't be everywhere. It's up to parents and parental values. When I was growing up (in a single mom house), I wasn't allowed to run the streets til 10:30 at night. And the problem is so bad now that we have an official "catch and release" situation here these days anyway. So bad that the police just ignore a bunch of crap since no one will file a complaint against them.

      8) America is turning authoritarian - it's a pale shadow of mexico.

      >>>
      But your answer mostly revolved around bigotry and intolerance of others, so I don't find your reasoning to be compelling.
      I would say my answer is based on hard experience with the subculture. I have friends in neighborhoods that transformed into hispanic neighborhoods and the results are uniformly terrible. The "hard" facts I'd point at is that while property values have doubled in other neighborhoods, they've only gone up about 15% in those neighborhoods. Where there used to be a nice family atmosphere (and mind you- there were hispanics in the neighborhood- but at lower numbers so that their values didn't dominate), now there are gangs on the street and a much higher crime rate.

      >>White folk have been in a majority for a long time, and have caused all sorts of problems.
      Yes. They were oppressive, bigoted, racist, etc. Can't disagree there.

      >>Might be good to experience being a minority for once, see what it's like.
      Tell you what- you try being a christian minority in Iraq or Egypt. Sure, that's an extreme, but the problem is the majority issue. Just as being white majority was bad- being a hispanic majority (really super minority) is going to be just as bad.

      >> Once upon a time there were no white people in America, but they didn't have any problem with becoming a majority and pushing the native people out. The whites expected the natives to learn English, not the other way around. Pretty easy to talk shit from a position of privilege.

      Man-- what to say about that statement. Based on your logic, the indians shouldn't have resisted or fought back since clearly various indian tribes had killed other tribes off and taken their territory over the 10k years they were here first (oh yea "native americans" are treated as a block

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    21. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot:

      09) Disobey traffic laws, and drive like they're in Mexico, i.e. "anything-goes"
      10) Do that while being uninsured, and unlicensed
      11) High propensity for DUI. Stand outside a gas station on Fridays at about 4pm (most construction crews just got off and have cash inhand) and you'll see what I mean.

      I've had two cars totalled by illegal immigrants. They don't even go to jail, and I'm out a car since they don't have insurance. Utter bullshit. I follow the rules and I get the shaft.

      These are my main pet peeves, that and refusing to learn English. All other immigrant groups have the common courtesy to learn our language. Learning Spanish is not an option here. I wouldn't move to Istanbul and expect everyone there to learn English to suit me. That'd be absurd.

    22. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by MBraynard · · Score: 1
      There are huge ghettos of Islamist extremist immigrants that are in a daily war with local police and are creating an internal version of Saudi Arabia within the country. This is reflected in the electoral success of Sarkozy.

      I can't create a whole media industry here on slashdot to educate you on this. If you want to look into it on your own you can. This is a pretty good article to describe that all is not well.

      But this is lost on you. I know that you think the only real terrorist is President Bush, he probably had a hand indirectly in 9/11, there is no Al-Queda, there is no threat from radical islam, and that boogey men like the 'Religious Right' here in the US are the real threat to your most important liberties, like downloading porn in mom's basement or lounging around Starbucks and complaining about how hard life is.

    23. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      You are correct.
      I also had a car totaled (while stopped at a red light no less) by a truck full of drunk young hispanics. They tried to escape but their truck radiator was too messed up. I had physical therapy for about 3 months. They walked on the tickets (moved to california apparently) and the judgement (the judge said, "I award you $25,000 pain and suffering- good luck ever collecting a dime.) They had insurance - but it was some funky kind of insurance where I couldn't get any money from it- it only covered their losses. Apparently they had signed a form saying they were responsible for other people's losses (which of course they had no intention of covering).

      Don't know about the DUI.
      Definately know about the unlicensed and uninsured bit.

      And it raises costs for everyone else on the road. I have a perfect driving record and pay over 5% of the value of my car every year-- someone has to cover the people they stiff for accidents (and schooling and hospital time) so I guess it's me.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    24. Re:I'll have to disagree with you. by haakondahl · · Score: 1
      Look, I appreciate your level tone, but it's the same dulcet delivery which lulls us into thinking that it's okay to go through life without seeing what is happening. It provides us with the comfortable feeling that no decisions are required, and that no actions need be taken.

      What you are saying is that a few thousand trees standing together do not make a forest.

      I would appreciate you withdrawing your bigot statement. That is as offensive to me as it would surely be to you. You and I may disagree on what the facts are, and what the facts mean, but you have a far less credible case to support calling me a bigot than I have for saying that France faces an Intifada.

      Thank you.

      --
      Don't trust anyone under thirty.
  14. That's sort of interesting about the buildings by MattGWU · · Score: 4, Informative

    The FN must have given up and left. You can't 'level the digital buildings'. There's very little, if anything, you can do to other peoples objects in SL, and certainly not on their own land. The landowner or the person in charge of the land group must not have been there, paying attention, or clued in to his own power to disable object rezzing, disable scripts, disable push, disable flight, ban, freeze, eject, etc etc. And that's just the built-in land tools, and not even getting into third-party security systems, which would be more difficult to overwhelm with numbers than a human op (The comparison of an SL parcel owner to an IRC op is apt in terms of power over their domain).

    --
    "These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based on the order in which I joined" --Homer re:
    1. Re:That's sort of interesting about the buildings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suspect the FN wanted the publicity as much as the protesters.

    2. Re:That's sort of interesting about the buildings by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 2, Informative

      Technically untrue. There are ways to overload someone else's parcel and cause things to de-rez. There are also other ways that I wouldn't talk about because they violate the TOS.

      And there's no way to stop someone from dropping on THEIR land and dragging it to yours.

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    3. Re:That's sort of interesting about the buildings by MattGWU · · Score: 1

      Yeah, guess I've heard about that happening in such as rental apartment buildings, when somebody rezzes too much stuff and yours disappears.

      Stand corrected!

      --
      "These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based on the order in which I joined" --Homer re:
    4. Re:That's sort of interesting about the buildings by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 1

      It's a very fair assumption to make. After all, Linden Labs says that's the case.

      It ain't, and I could prove it. There's also a nasty bug that causes a script to TAKE inventory from players without permission, but that one I am surely not letting slip.

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    5. Re:That's sort of interesting about the buildings by AndroidCat · · Score: 1

      Were there any munchkins running around chanting "Ding Dong, the Witch is dead"?

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
  15. Even more sadly... by DietCoke · · Score: 0, Troll

    You need a fourth to get away from the French completely.

  16. Funny how it's always the Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    who kill cute little babies with guns.

    No, I didn't mean the babies have guns.

  17. Wait One Minute! by walnutmon · · Score: 1

    You can destroy property in second life?

    And I always thought that games sucked!

    Maybe I was mistaken.

    --
    You take it, I don't want it...
    1. Re:Wait One Minute! by MattGWU · · Score: 1

      Easy there, scout...see my post above yours: You CAN'T destroy property in Secondlife. You can't even kill people in any meaningful sense. Sorry, you're going to have to be a worthless hooligan elsewhere. For your purposes, Secondlife still sucks. It sucks hard.

      Do a "FOR THE HORDE" for me, wouldja? Kthnx.

      --
      "These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based on the order in which I joined" --Homer re:
    2. Re:Wait One Minute! by walnutmon · · Score: 1

      The anti-FN activists, who had armed themselves with slogans, placards and weapons, leveled the digital buildings occupied by Front National.

      So what was this then? I want to destroy virtual property, expecially if it can cause inconvenience to someone else.

      --
      You take it, I don't want it...
    3. Re:Wait One Minute! by Knara · · Score: 1

      And by someone, you mean furries.

    4. Re:Wait One Minute! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not like anyone other than furries uses second life.

    5. Re:Wait One Minute! by dangitman · · Score: 1

      No, that's a something.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  18. The Horder is back! by BillGatesLoveChild · · Score: 1

    > Wikipedia makes them look like a sort of "wind back the clock" party.


    Maybe Europe is annoyed at the U.S. muscling in on their "starting wars" monopoly and attempting to reclaim it? Not a problem, because this is easily solved:


    Create a bogus Secondlife filled with Eliza-bots. Hack the French DNS servers to divert there. Hopefully they'll never catch on! ;-)

    1. Re:The Horder is back! by masklinn · · Score: 1

      Nope, this has no relation with the FN, the FN is a right-wing ultra-nationalist party, they hate everything non-white non-catholic non-french because it's neither white nor catholic nor french, the precise behavior of the US doesn't impact them much (except in giving them more ways to "reach" people).

      If anything, they probably wish they wield GWB's power to wage random wars on any random country he happens to hate.

      --
      "The way we can tell it's C# instead of Haskell is because it's nine lines instead of two." -- wadler
    2. Re:The Horder is back! by BillGatesLoveChild · · Score: 1

      > they hate everything non-white non-catholic non-french Ask them about French Blue Cheese and watch their minds self-destruct. > FN is a right-wing ultra-nationalist party, A French Nazi Party. Oh the irony!

    3. Re:The Horder is back! by masklinn · · Score: 1

      Ask them about French Blue Cheese and watch their minds self-destruct.

      Well blue cheeses are actually mostly white you know

      A French Nazi Party. Oh the irony!

      Sadly not, we got our fair share of "collaborators" during WWII, and some people do long for that period...

      --
      "The way we can tell it's C# instead of Haskell is because it's nine lines instead of two." -- wadler
  19. Re:Another demonstration of the tolerance of the l by Ford+Prefect · · Score: 4, Insightful
    But deviate from the accepted policy positions of the left and watch how little tolerance they have for that. They will violently suppress the slightest deviation from orthodox socialism.

    Absolutely. And paranoids on the right are correct - there is a global leftist conspiracy. We receive our orders from the Party on a daily basis, and follow them to the letter. Good news, too - you'll be the first up against the firing squads come the glorious revolution.

    ...

    To me, the news story was about a pseudo-fascist political group in France trying to leap on to the bandwagon of publicity about Second Life, before being chased off their server in a typically amusing manner by a bunch of online griefers. However, assorted Slashdotters appear to take this as evidence of some kind of hateful leftist conspiracy, intent on stifling free speech and dissent on the internet.

    Oh noes!
    --
    Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
  20. Not left vs. right by Cheesey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hmm. It's not really a left vs. right issue. I think that protests against the FN are really about drawing attention to the nature of the FN.

    Neo-Nazi organisations like the FN and the BNP in Britain have come up with a "respectable" face. Now they are patriots. It's all about conserving traditional values, a return to the way things were at some magical point in history when things were Good. Traditional justice, small government, support for local business, more policing - who wouldn't want that?

    But there's much more to it than that. Underneath, the same people are involved, and they want the same thing - power. Power like the kind of power Hitler had. And their bigoted views are lurking just out of sight: Send the darkies home, fight back against the Muslims (terrorists, dontchaknow). Holocaust? What holocaust?

    Some people will support them because they are genuine bigots. But I believe that most people are basically good, not intrinsically racist. It is these people who should understand the true nature of the FN before they make the mistake of voting for them.

    Everyone, whether liberal, conservative, or socialist, should speak out against fascist ideas. Your political viewpoint doesn't matter: no-one wants a dictator.

    --
    >north
    You're an immobile computer, remember?
    1. Re:Not left vs. right by +PhilipMarlowe9000 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the far right is really disturbing. The BNP in particular takes the cake for not participating in British politics normally; their goal is to instead wait for an economic depression and take power (a la the "Nordic Fire" party in V for Vendetta) The Guardian (http://politics.guardian.co.uk/farright/story/0,, 1977520,00.html): "The handbook, which sets out a 17-point programme intended to help activists raise levels of support, adds: "We must do this with a sense of urgency as we do not have centuries in which to gradually achieve our aims." BNP leaders believe they need to increase the number of potential supporters, convinced that many would consider turning to the party at a time of deep economic crisis. Mr Griffin is convinced that the support of just 18% of the British electorate would put the party just "one crisis away from power". This strategy was laid out by Mr Griffin in a speech to a closed meeting of American white supremacists and European far-right party activists in New Orleans last year. In a recording of the speech obtained by the Guardian, he tells his audience to prepare now for "an age of scarcity that will be a once-in-200-years opportunity". He not only believes that an economic crisis of catastrophic proportions would present a great opportunity for the BNP: he appears to be convinced that such a crisis is inevitable, the result of global warming, fuel shortages and mounting debt. "When the revolution comes, the revolution which is going to sweep away this nightmare, it is going to come in Europe, and it's going to come very suddenly," he told the New Orleans audience. "Bang: one month they don't support you, the next month - if you've done your homework and the circumstances are right - they are prepared to support you."

      --
      My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music. Vladimir Nabokov
    2. Re:Not left vs. right by Oracle+of+Bandwidth · · Score: 1

      Can you want to restrict immigration from backwards countries? If not do you really want to live in plauge infected africa?

    3. Re:Not left vs. right by Captain+Sarcastic · · Score: 1

      There's another aspect that I would add: fear.

      Many of the people in FN (and many other ultra-right-wing organizations) are afraid. They are afraid of changes that are happening. The mythical "Good Old Days" that they hope to restore are facing threats, not least of which that some keep pointing out that they're mythical.

      That kind of fear leads to people looking for easy targets, rather than useful / legitimate targets. For the Nazis, it was all part of the Grand Jewish Conspiracy. For the Copperhead Militia, it's them damn illegal furriners sneaking over the border. For FN, it's those blankety-blank Muslims who they claim are planning on replacing the rule of law with the rule of Sharia (although none of them are quite sure how Sharia is imposed, and nobody really considers that the Bible that many of them cite as the basis for their traditional views doesn't really have any democratic principles).

      "Fear leads to hate. Hate leads to great suffering." (Either that or to a career in politics.)

      --
      Strike while the irony is hot! -- The Freethinker
    4. Re:Not left vs. right by crazyeddie740 · · Score: 1

      Well, there's my personal solution to the American immigration problem, perhaps it will work for you:

      1) A lot of people, many of them living just south of the border, want into America *real* bad.

      2)They are willing to pay "coyotes" a lot of money (about $3000 is the going rate, so I hear) to get into the country.

      3) The coyotes, as long as they are heading that way, can smuggle in other things as well - drugs for sure, and perhaps terrorists, since they aren't going to be exactly careful about checking peoples' IDs.

      4) Meanwhile, in order to get into the country legally, you have to add your name to a list. This list is taken care of on a first-come-first-served basis. And INS or ICE or whatever they're calling it this week are taking care of cases slower than new cases are being added. The wait period is currently at about 12 years and getting longer.

      So, here's my solution: $5000 on the barrel-head, and a background check, and you're in. If the agency that does the background check doesn't get back to you within a year, you're in anyway. No "guest-worker" status, no "green card," just plain Jane legal residence. Short term student or tourist visas go cheaper. That $5000 goes part of the way towards covering the alleged drain on our taxpayer dollars that immigrants supposedly have, and the background check helps to make sure they ain't a terrorist. Since $5000 not only gets you in, but also gets you legal residence, I think most immigrants would rather pay for that than for $3000 for *illegal* residence. You chop out the market for coyotes, so suddenly our borders become a lot more secure. The $5000 cover charge might also tend to keep out some of the "riffraff." The strongest objection to this idea of mine that I've heard is that it might cause some loan-sharking to develop. However, 1) somehow I get the felling that coyotes might not be above some sharking as well, and 2) we have laws against loan-sharking. *Enforce them!*

      Any other constructive criticism?

    5. Re:Not left vs. right by masklinn · · Score: 1

      a la the "Nordic Fire"

      Nitpick, I know, but The Party's name is "Norsefire" not Nordic Fire.

      --
      "The way we can tell it's C# instead of Haskell is because it's nine lines instead of two." -- wadler
    6. Re:Not left vs. right by DavidShor · · Score: 1

      Great Idea! I like it, but republicans would bring up that immigrants cost the country more than $5000 in services. I would leave the cost to a independent commission, that determines the average cost of a immigrant every year. To cover the loan problem, the government can simply take the money out of your paycheck every month, in a couple years, they will get all the money.

    7. Re:Not left vs. right by Captain+Sarcastic · · Score: 1

      For what it's worth - I like it!

      My biggest grief in this whole illegal immigration thing is with the coyotes. They usually charge what amounts to an individual's life savings to get them across the border, and then as often as not drop them off in the deepest part of some very inhospitable real estate... and drive off with a huge chunk of change. $90,000 for 30 people at $3000 each, dropped off in a tractor-trailer in the deep desert... and with only the hope that the coyote remembered to unlock the back door.

      And next month, the coyote brings in another truckload.

      <sarcasm level="dripping">Nice work if you can get it.</sarcasm>

      --
      Strike while the irony is hot! -- The Freethinker
    8. Re:Not left vs. right by +PhilipMarlowe9000 · · Score: 1

      Thank you!

      --
      My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music. Vladimir Nabokov
    9. Re:Not left vs. right by Cheesey · · Score: 1

      Interesting stuff, thankyou. It never hurts to know more... The BNP are running a campaign in my area at the moment so the topic is of particular interest to me. They do seem to know how to appeal to people without setting off "neo-Nazi" alarm bells which is frankly scary.

      --
      >north
      You're an immobile computer, remember?
    10. Re:Not left vs. right by crazyeddie740 · · Score: 1

      Well, the real reason I put the price at $5000 *is* to keep out the riff-raff. (In order to keep immigrants from competing with our existing citizens for jobs.) Much more than that, and you'll once again create a market for the coyotes. Instead of basing the charge on how much the immigrants are costing us (and I'm not personally sure that they are), we need to base the charge on how much the traffic will bear - and not a penny more.

    11. Re:Not left vs. right by DavidShor · · Score: 1

      The riff-raff are the people using coyotes

    12. Re:Not left vs. right by crazyeddie740 · · Score: 1

      More like the ones not using coyotes because they can't afford them. If 1) We charge $5000, 2) Coyotes now charge $3000, and 3)This plan did put the coyotes out of business, then, yes, some of the people now using coyotes would be blocked from entering the country, either because they could afford $3000 but not $5000 or because they couldn't pass the background check. But on the whole, the $5000 cover charge would be excluding mostly those who are already excluded - most of the coyotes' current customers would be able to get in completely legit. However, this is better than two other alternatives - opening the floodgates entirely or keep doing what we're doing which means keeping the coyotes employed and our borders nice and porous.

  21. Can you arm yourself with a slogan? by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

    Second Life solved the problem by turning out the lights around the protestors, and they were eaten by grues. ...

    Yes, I am horribly old. :(

    1. Re:Can you arm yourself with a slogan? by lazarus · · Score: 1

      "Yes, I am horribly old. :("

      Only if you've played adventure on the original punchcards... I doubt the kids on this BBS or whatever newfangled open systems trinket this service is even know what a grue is...

      Do you remember hunt the whumpus?

      --
      I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
    2. Re:Can you arm yourself with a slogan? by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      "You must be new here" to not realize that most slashdotters with a 6 digit or lower number know what a grue is. :-)

    3. Re:Can you arm yourself with a slogan? by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      For a final project in an early programming class, I wrote a 4 dimensional Hunt The Wumpus. It involved time travel. )

  22. Just Wait ... by twitter · · Score: 2, Funny
    ... the Vi vrs. Emacs war will make this little show look small.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:Just Wait ... by The+Real+Toad+King · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure. I think the big media would favor exploding virtual pigs over nerds writing slightly vulgar messages in newsgroups to each other.

    2. Re:Just Wait ... by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Considering that there are 'nix users in SL and a beta Linux client, and Linden Labs open sourced the client, I wouldn't be surprised to see some goodnatured vi vs emacs type stuff in SL.

    3. Re:Just Wait ... by slyborg · · Score: 1

      Emacs. 'Nuff said.

      (Mod +1 Flamebait ;)

    4. Re:Just Wait ... by mdielmann · · Score: 1

      Well, the real winner will be the one to get it running in the editor of their choice first. No idea how it will represent the graphical world, tho.

      --
      Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
    5. Re:Just Wait ... by DamnStupidElf · · Score: 1

      ... the Vi vrs. Emacs war will make this little show look small.

      The meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything is.... to determine which editor is actually superior. Cosmic wars shall be fought, and in the end, emacs shall triumph! (can you tell which side I'm on?)

  23. Curious about this "Second Life" and coverage by Jugalator · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Anyone else noticed quite a big jump in news stories just about the recent year or so about Second Life, despite still having a quite small highly active user base compared to World of Warcraft and the likes? Either it's somehow popular to report on this "unusual" game (personally I find it quite boring, although the stories are fun for laughs), journalists find the game "futuristic" in the sense of what it's doing ("Oooh, look, we found out news about this cool game where you can protest for/against the UN or whatever!"), or there's the tin foil theory with many Second Life gamers submitting story material to news sites, posting it in blogs, etc to generate coverage.

    Personally, I don't really see the big deal. Some huge geeks started using a game as a platform for politics debates? What's new, really. People stand out in towns in WoW, Guild Wars, and other games and sometimes get into hot "religion and politics" debates. It's just more of the same, only that due to how Second Life works, they can take a more "practical" stance on it with crappy designed graphics looking like something out of the early nineties to help their cause.

    --
    Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    1. Re:Curious about this "Second Life" and coverage by Knara · · Score: 1

      Yes, and I suspect it's the result of a very good marketing/PR staff at Linden Labs, and not the result of organic excitement in this particular mmo.

    2. Re:Curious about this "Second Life" and coverage by Red+Moose · · Score: 1

      Very true. Same thing happened with Halo 2. Someone somewhere really likes it.

      I tried Second Life but quit after 10 mins because it seemed like a load of bollocks. Not a fan of MMORPG stuff myself, but there are plenty that are much much bigger.

      --

      Acting stupid isn't much fun when there's someone around who knows better

  24. Pink Floyd by Cheesey · · Score: 1
    Pink Floyd wrote a song about the British equivalent of the Front National. Here is an excerpt.

    Would you like to see Britannia,
    Rule again, my friend?
    All you have to do is follow the worms.
    Would you like to send our coloured cousins,
    Home again, my friend?
    All you need to do is follow the worms.

    Waiting, to cut out the deadwood.
    Waiting, to clean up the city.
    Waiting, to follow the worms.
    Waiting, to put on a black shirt.
    Waiting, to weed out the weaklings.
    Waiting, to smash in their windows and kick in their doors.
    Waiting, for the final solution to strengthen the strain.
    Waiting, to follow the worms.
    Waiting, to turn on the showers and fire the ovens.
    Waiting, for the queers and the coons and the reds and the jews.
    Waiting, to follow the worms.

    -- Pink Floyd, The Wall, side 4 of 4, Waiting for the Worms

    Could an attempt to "turn back the clock" actually lead to something far worse? It's not unreasonable to think so. Just what is the FN's "final solution" for the Islamic question? Just what will they do about single mothers and ethnic minorities? Given that their strategy so far is straight out of the Dr Goebbels songbook, it's not too hard to guess.
    --
    >north
    You're an immobile computer, remember?
    1. Re:Pink Floyd by Original+Replica · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Just what is the FN's "final solution" for the Islamic question?"

      Let's hope it's better than Islam's "solution" for infidels. Is there a world wide war of incompatible cultures? Islam vs. the Western World? If it is war how show a cultural war be fought?

      --
      We are all just people.
    2. Re:Pink Floyd by mr100percent · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Let's hope it's better than Islam's "solution" for infidels


      What, allowing them freedom to practice their own religion and protection by the Islamic government? Even Iran lets the Jewish MPs in office, and swear on the torah or bible.


      Quit your FUD.

    3. Re:Pink Floyd by bucky0 · · Score: 1

      Not to disagree with your main point, but Iran's constitution makes it so that every minority gets an MP. Whether it's a token gesture or if he actually can do things there is another question.

      --

      -Bucky
    4. Re:Pink Floyd by Original+Replica · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "One of the greatest debates within the Muslim Ummah, one that causes division within the Islamic nation and that is often used by the enemies of Islam as a means of ascribing brutality to our religion is centered on the methods by which Islam was propagated throughout the globe. Was Islam spread by the sword? The quick answer to this question is a resounding yes and in this article, we hope to set the record straight using the evidence from the Qur'an and the Sunnah, the practice of the Guided Caliphs and the consensus of the righteous scholars of the Ummah, inshaAllah. While the evidences in this article are by no means exhaustive, inshaAllah they will be adequate to lay this matter to rest...The Prophet (pbuh) said to Abu Hurariah: "You (Muslims) are the best of people for mankind. You bring them in chains to accept Islam so that they end up in paradise (if they fully adhere to it and Allah accepts their deeds). " http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre_internal.php? article=107152&list=/home.php

      This is more the part of Islam that concerns me.

      --
      We are all just people.
    5. Re:Pink Floyd by dangitman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Let's hope it's better than Islam's "solution" for infidels.

      I didn't realize that the only two options were ultra-right-wing racist Westerners and ultra-right-wing racist Islamists. I could have sworn there were other choices of how we run our societies and governments.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    6. Re:Pink Floyd by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Christianity used to be like that. Don't worry, feed them enough McDonald's, make them addicted to Oprah and let them worship the Bling and sooner or later they'll become just as complacent.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    7. Re:Pink Floyd by mr100percent · · Score: 2, Informative

      jihadunspun, a right-wing site, is disregarded by most Muslims. They're incorrect. Forcible conversion is NOT allowed in Islam, since the Quran says "Let there be no compulsion in religion" (2:256). God does not accept insincere conversions, so forced ones do not count.

      Besides, India was ruled by Muslims for centuries, but is 85% Hindu today. No mass-forcible conversion ever took place. Spain was ruled by Moors (Muslims) for 700 years, yet allowed Jewish people greater freedom of religion than Christian Europe did, giving them synagogues and allowing them in university. It was known as the "Golden Age of Judaism" by historians, and only ended when the Spanish Inquisition kicked both Jews and Muslims out of Spain. Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world, and no Arab or Muslim army ever reached it, the millions converted through non-violence and missionaries and trading with Muslims.

      The terrorists are pretty bad in a lot of ways, but they're not demanding conversion or death. Don't forget how they killed hundreds of Muslims on 9/11.

    8. Re:Pink Floyd by masklinn · · Score: 1

      This is more the part of Islam that concerns me.

      Yeah, because that part of islam isn't anything like what christianity used to be, and the spanish inquisition didn't exist...

      --
      "The way we can tell it's C# instead of Haskell is because it's nine lines instead of two." -- wadler
    9. Re:Pink Floyd by Original+Replica · · Score: 1

      You are right many horrible things have been done in the name of christianity, so let's not repeat them.

      --
      We are all just people.
    10. Re:Pink Floyd by Detritus · · Score: 1

      Before you wax too poetically on the tolerance of Islam, you might want to read a few history books. See Myths & Facts -- The Treatment of Jews in Arab/Islamic Countries.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    11. Re:Pink Floyd by mr100percent · · Score: 1

      Isolated incidents, and regrettable ones at that. The religion does not command mass murder, nor destruction of synagogues, both of which scholars of the Quran condemn as un-Islamic. Besides, the destruction of a synagogue in Egypt in the year 1014 does not mean that all Muslims believe in that. Look at how much violence is done in the name of every other religion, does that mean it's supported by it?

  25. Re:Another demonstration of the tolerance of the l by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Silence Comrade! The Elders of Zion will not be pleased with you sharing our secrets to the uninitiated.

  26. Nifty how I get modded a troll... by haakondahl · · Score: 1

    While your flaming flamebait sits unremarked. Please step to the window on the left to pick up youor Slashdot +3 Liberal mod.

    --
    Don't trust anyone under thirty.
    1. Re:Nifty how I get modded a troll... by dangitman · · Score: 1

      While your flaming flamebait sits unremarked.

      Why act surprised, when you were trolling with racism and sexism, and you know it? The GP post is not flamebait - it's just exposing your flamebait for what it really is.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    2. Re:Nifty how I get modded a troll... by haakondahl · · Score: 1

      I am actually replying to dangitman, who said "Why act surprised, when you were trolling with racism and sexism, and you know it? The GP post is not flamebait - it's just exposing your flamebait for what it really is."

      Resistance to Islamist domination does not constitute racism. First off, Islam is not a race. Second, I would like to see my country remain a place where *all* religions may be practiced, not only one. Unlike under, say, SHARI'A LAW!

      Opposition to giving birth out of wedlock does not constitute sexism. First off, I don't think men should do it either. The rest of that is not my problem. Second, statistically speaking, I do not think that there is any better way to improve the opportunities and the situation for a mother AND her child than marriage.

      It's people like you who give liberals a bad name by refusing to address facts. Instead, you just start tossing around some of your magic words (racist, sexist, etc..) as if calling me names refutes any of the points I make.

      I can call you an flaming liberal asshole, for example, but that does not rebut your argument.

      --
      Don't trust anyone under thirty.
  27. Any other fabulously wealthy rock stars... by haakondahl · · Score: 1

    ...whom you wish to cite as policy guidance?

    --
    Don't trust anyone under thirty.
    1. Re:Any other fabulously wealthy rock stars... by Cheesey · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's silly to quote a band, but I was quite disturbed by your post and thought the song was quite similar in tone.

      Are things really so bad in France that you, presumably an intelligent person, are considering voting for Le Pen, i.e. a Neo-Nazi? Surely there is some solution to France's problems that does not involve jackboots, concentration camps, and all-out war against anyone involved with that "evil" religion. Because when the Nazis have finished "dealing with the Muslims" they will start dealing with everyone else, and that will eventually include you. "When they came for Muslims, I did not speak out... etc."

      --
      >north
      You're an immobile computer, remember?
  28. Cute, but by StarKruzr · · Score: 1

    no.

    --

    +++ATH0
  29. Re:Another demonstration of the tolerance of the l by Lallander · · Score: 2, Funny

    Sorry, The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy defines the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation as "a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes." We will have to be content with second.

  30. Re:Another demonstration of the tolerance of the l by illegalcortex · · Score: 1
    Compare this with the other story posted today where US leftists are aiming to revoke the 1st Amendment in their continuing efforts to suppress political dissent during campaigns, reign in unregulated bloggers
    *sigh* Should I even bother to point out that the whole "reign in unregulated bloggers" is an amendment by David Vitter (R-LA)? Of course, then I'd have to explain that's it's being overblown anyway. Oh, nevermind, have fun with your tirade.
  31. Re:Another demonstration of the tolerance of the l by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Orwell was a socialist, you twit.

  32. Virtualness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Since they're resulting to virtual violence for political purposes, doesn't that make them virtual terrorists/cyberterrorists? We cannot let people do this. We might even have to virtually torture they're avatars for virtual information, before they virtually blow up the virtual bomb in the virtual building and virtually kill innocent virtual people. Think of the virtual children!

    Seriously though if we're going to have so many stories on it, let's make Second Slashdot you know , for people that don't have a second life either :)

  33. Wikipedia.... is like soaping up without water. by gd23ka · · Score: 1

    "Wikipedia makes them look like a sort of "wind back the clock" party. "

    With anything remotely political, taboo or maybe just not in sync with world socialism
    when you look up stuff I recommend you read the discussion page too and look through
    the article's history to see what they have deleted. Reading just the article by itself
    is just as pointless as trying to lather up with soap but without water.

    1. Re:Wikipedia.... is like soaping up without water. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1
      Reading just the article by itself is just as pointless as trying to lather up with soap but without water.

      going offtopic here, but if you have a bunch of automotive grease on your hands, using water is an idiot move. you put on hand cleaner without any water, or actually castile soap works amazingly well (Dr. Bronner's) and rub it around hard, cutting the grease.

      Just continuing my fight against stupid axioms.

      Anyway this is not exactly the first time I've heard of them being a bunch of ignorant fucks, I just needed a refresher to my memory.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  34. Re:Another demonstration of the tolerance of the l by blueskies · · Score: 2, Insightful

    US leftists are aiming to revoke the 1st Amendment

    Please back this up with a link, troll. How exactly do you revoke the 1st Amendment?

    I thought it was the Supreme Court's job along with Bush's to erode the Bill of Rights? Why would Bush let the Leftists do his job?

  35. Re:Another demonstration of the tolerance of the l by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    care to link? from what i can tell the bill is sponsered by 16 ds and 2 rs.
    here are his amendments:
      5. S.AMDT.5 to S.1 To modify the application of the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 to Indian tribes.
    Sponsor: Sen Vitter, David [LA] (introduced 1/9/2007) Cosponsors (1)
    Latest Major Action: 1/10/2007 Motion to table amendment SA 5 agreed to in Senate by Yea-Nay Vote. 56 - 40. Record Vote Number: 3.

    6. S.AMDT.6 to S.1 to prohibit authorized committees and leadership PACs from employing the spouse or immediate family members of any candidate or Federal office holder connected to the committee.
    Sponsor: Sen Vitter, David [LA] (introduced 1/9/2007) Cosponsors (None)
    Latest Major Action: 1/10/2007 Motion to table amendment SA 6 agreed to in Senate by Yea-Nay. 54 - 41. Record Vote Number: 4.

    7. S.AMDT.7 to S.1 To amend the Ethics in Government Act of 1978 to establish criminal penalties for knowingly and willfully falsifying or failing to file or report certain information required to be reported under that Act, and for other purposes.
    Sponsor: Sen Vitter, David [LA] (introduced 1/9/2007) Cosponsors (None)
    Latest Major Action: 1/10/2007 Senate amendment agreed to. Status: Amendment SA 7 agreed to in Senate by Yea-Nay Vote. 93 - 2. Record Vote Number: 2

      9. S.AMDT.9 to S.1 To prohibit Members from having official contact with any spouse of a Member who is a registered lobbyist.
    Sponsor: Sen Vitter, David [LA] (introduced 1/10/2007) Cosponsors (1)
    Latest Major Action: 1/16/2007 Considered by Senate.

    hmm, nothing about bloggers. just sayin...

  36. This post does not contain my opinion by heinousjay · · Score: 1

    Well, they have dark skin. Duh.

    --
    Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
  37. Exploding WHAT? by darkonc · · Score: 1

    This is probably one of the few times that someone screaming "Pig! Pig! Pig!" at at a rowdy demonstration would get more than my peripheral attention.

    --
    Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
  38. Famous violent leftists by Travoltus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The troops at Kent State.
    The Klan.
    Timothy McVeigh.
    Abu Ghraib.
    Abortion clinic bombers.

    Yup, all radical leftists!

    --
    --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
    1. Re:Famous violent leftists by DamnStupidElf · · Score: 1

      Yup, all radical leftists!

      That argument just gets a retaliation of "Lennin, Stalin, Mao!" What you really need to distinguish between are fascists, normal people, and anarchists. The political spectrum has at least two dimensions, of which right and left (conservative and liberal) are only one. If up and down is used for the second dimension then fascist regimes belong way down on the bottom, with libertarians taking a high position somewhere below anarchists. The first dimension is social politics, and the second is personal freedom. Almost all violent people of any social political stance have been either at the very bottom or the very top of the freedom dimension. Normal people find somewhere in the middle where everyone's personal freedoms aren't mutually contradictory.

  39. Political compass = Libertarian by Per+Abrahamsen · · Score: 1

    The two-axis world view of the political compass is Libetarian. If the Libertarians are considered left-wing these days, the situations in the US is worse than I imagined.

    The two-axes of the political compass is way better than the single axis, but you can of course choose many different axes. The axes of the political were better suited to the cold war era. These day I'd say a tribal/local vs. humanist/global axis would better match many of todays political conflicts.

  40. Theonomy has elections by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The last thing you said is wrong. (unless you by democracy means the dictatorship of the majority over any issue at all like when two wolfs and a lamb votes for what to have for dinner) The Bible records several elections on various issues in The Time of the Judges.

  41. Sadder still... by Harinezumi · · Score: 0, Troll

    You don't even have a first life

    1. Re:Sadder still... by lostboy2 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, I only have a Half Life.

  42. Re:Another demonstration of the tolerance of the l by masklinn · · Score: 1

    US leftists are aiming to revoke the 1st Amendment

    Someone should probably tell them that they're late to the party and that KG has already slaughtered it, along with the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th.

    They can still try to revoke the third though, looks like it's still there.

    They should probably hurry.

    --
    "The way we can tell it's C# instead of Haskell is because it's nine lines instead of two." -- wadler
  43. The liberal French by PadRacerExtreme · · Score: 1
    "Would it have been better to debate their ideas or even just ignore them?" I ask him. "Now they can claim they were 'suppressed' and their free speech was infringed."

    "No," Zok insists. "With this persons we can't debate or ignored. We can't because it's not acceptable."

    So, as long as someone agrees with you, you are allowed free speech. This seems strangely familiar to me....

    (Flame shield on!)

    --
    Just remember - if the world didn't suck, we would all fall off.
  44. Server crash by Randym · · Score: 1
    People protesting FN crashed the server containing the FN land with all their scripts. From TFA:

    Since Porcupine is not a damage-enabled area, weapons there have about as much stopping power as pointing one's finger at the computer screen and saying Bang Bang. But get enough projectiles flying, and server lag is bound to ground anyone's use of the area to a halt. (Or in my case, cause the Second Life viewer to crash.)

    --
    DNA is a Turing machine. You, however, being dynamic and emergent, are not.