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Deathblow To a Voting Machine

SiggyRadiation writes "According to their newsletter (my English translation here), the Dutch group that 'doesn't trust the voting computers' has won a round against the industry and the civil servants that seem hell-bent on reintroducing voting machines — NewVote, made by SDU — that the Dutch minister of the interior has suspended. Apparently SDU provided 5 slightly different samples of its machine to the Dutch version of the NSA (well... the very humble Dutch version anyway) for testing purposes. Of those five, four machines emitted radiation in such a way that the votes cast could be monitored. SDU's NewVote received its final deathblow when it became clear that the one machine that stayed within the radiation limits used a green-on-red color-scheme for its screen. And that would be a small problem for the 4% of all men that cannot distinguish between red and green."

28 of 140 comments (clear)

  1. Radiation? by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Funny
    Of those five, four machines emitted radiation in such a way that the votes cast could be monitored.
    *man exits polling booth & his hair immediately starts to fall out in clumps*

    Observer: "Looks like somebody voted for Dammechien Peteersrotmensenpoepjespiestnaaktgeborenzeldenthus III!"
    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:Radiation? by Otter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My first thought was to wonder why the Dutch were the only ones freaking out over a vulnerability that probably affects every electronic voting machine on the planet. But of course, Van Eck is a local security bigshot and if he wasn't on the commission himself, his buddies probably were.

    2. Re:Radiation? by JPDeckers · · Score: 2, Informative
      Peteersrotmensenpoepjespiestnaaktgeborenzeldenth us
      Peteersstupidpeoplescatpissbornenakedseldomathome

      Well, not much of a phrase

      (but consists of actual family names like naaktgebored (borne naked) and zeldenthus (seldom at home) )

  2. Not the first time by Da+Fokka · · Score: 2, Informative

    In fact, during the general assembly elections of november 2006 a lot of counties decided to revert to old-skool paper and pencil voting because of the same issues. Wijvertrouwenstemcomputersniet.nl has done some excellent work!

    1. Re:Not the first time by krbvroc1 · · Score: 4, Funny
      a lot of counties decided to revert to old-skool paper and pencil voting because of the same issues

      Unfortunately, pencil and paper voting was rejected. Of the 5 prototype pencils tested, 4 contained lead and the one lead-free pencil was determined to lose it sharpness after several votes.

  3. In fits and starts but it will proceeed... by Merkwurdigeliebe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, this is a blow, but in the end, electronic voting will overcome the shortcomings and the missteps and become they way to cast one's ballot. While there are presently insecurites and faults in the machines those will eventually be minimized so that they become more reliable and less fallible than traditional voting methods (which of course are less than infallible --but many don't want to acknowlewdge that.)

    1. Re:In fits and starts but it will proceeed... by Billosaur · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except there's a big difference between forging paper ballots, or having people vote multiple times under different identities, and using a computer-based system which could be altered easily enough to not record votes at all, record the incorrect votes, or have its count altered by an outside agent. Even the idea of a paper trail is somewhat laughable, as you're expecting people to hang on to this piece of paper for a significant time, on the off chance it might be needed to verify how they voted.

      Computer-based voting is a long way from being a reliable enough method to be used exclusively. I think for now there should be a concentration on creating ballots that are easily machine-readible, making the counting easier. Purely computer-driven systems will have to be phased in in small numbers, so they can be monitored and bugs ironed out. Perhaps give people a choice of what type of machine they wish to use. You're going to have to do a lot of work to convince me that this technology is robust enough and secure enough to be used exclusively.

      --
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    2. Re:In fits and starts but it will proceeed... by Merkwurdigeliebe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The methods of fraud might be different, but the real question is what is the impact on the election(s) overall? Which method produces a more accurate count? When electronic voting proves more reliable it should be adopted as such.

      The banking system is based on computers (and thedre aren't many examples of exploiting the system --sure there is oversight by the account-bearer but the point is the errors are small overall). The major kinks in the electronic banking system have been worked out; they shall be worked out of electronic voting too --eventually.

      Inaccuracies will exist be it because of improper use, tampering, rigging, etc., but they shall be overall inconsequential and thus render the system effective.

    3. Re:In fits and starts but it will proceeed... by cduffy · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, no, no! That's not how voter-verifiable paper trails work! If you let the voter keep the piece of paper, they can use it to show how they voted (to collect a payment for their vote, or avoid being beat up or fired). If the piece of paper can't be visually read by the voter for them to know what it says, it isn't "voter-verifiable" any longer and doesn't allow immediate detection of fraud. Nobody wants to let the voter keep a piece of paper. (Well, almost nobody. There are some proposals where the paper is only readable using separate equipment which the voter is only allowed to access when alone, but that's a corner case and has problems of its own).

      Instead, VVPT systems have a traditional physical lockbox. Think of the paper as being something behind glass; the user looks at it, validates that it says what they want it to say, and then press "yes" or "no". Press yes? It's deposited in a lockbox which can be secured via traditional methods. Press no? It's marked as void, or shredded, or whatever. It's not the voter's responsibility or burden to track the paper; rather, it's kept in the voting system for use in audits and recounts. (Audits being a very important thing -- having the ability to audit means you can take a sample of the physical ballots, check whether the proportions match what the electronic counters said, and know whether you have a big enough problem to require a larger recount).

      This is still an improvement over pure paper ballots because you have the usability and accessibility enhancements associated with electronic voting, but the enhanced auditability associated with a piece of paper which a voter has looked at and approved.

    4. Re:In fits and starts but it will proceeed... by Sique · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Electronic voting steals you half of your voting rights: The right to watch the counting. As someone born and raised in the former Eastern Block I know this is important. We had the right to mark a sheet of paper with a pen and put it in a box. But the outcome was predetermined anyway. Most later convictions for voting fraud in East Germany were only possible, because people watched the counting in enough voting places in 1989 to compare their results with the officially stated.

      So don't let you take the right to watch the counting!

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    5. Re:In fits and starts but it will proceeed... by cduffy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      And if someone can reprogram the machine to record votes a certain way, why can't they program it to dispense the correct paper audits as well?


      That's why they're behind glass where the voter can look at the paper before confirming his or her vote. If I told the machine I'm voting for Bob but the piece of paper behind the glass window says Alice, I (the voter) know there's something wrong.

      And a lock-box? Secure? You're right back to the same problem you have with paper ballots.


      Those problems aren't too bad; We know how to contain them, even though those are largely procedural methods. Folks can look at a lockbox for pick marks, and those boxes don't get lost without it being noticed; once an electronic counter is tampered with, there can be no proof whatsoever that that tampering even occured.

      I could cope with electronic voting if its security were only as bad as paper voting. The problem is that as it stands, there's potential for it to be much much worse -- and undetectably so.
    6. Re:In fits and starts but it will proceeed... by cduffy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      With e-voting, you don't need to corrupt the officials -- you can corrupt the technicians, over whom the officials have no effective oversight. Even worse, some systems are so ineffectively built that they can be subverted by an individual without any inside access -- see the photos of unattended machines from the last elections, documentation on attacks that would work against them, etc.

      Further, there are effective countermeasures for ballot box stuffing. There are judges from both major parties at any polling location validating that one person walking in corresponds to one name marked off the rolls; the number of names marked off and the number of votes cast at that location can then be correlated to match. Physical security measures, again with oversight from each major party, are available to protect both the rolls (tracking which people voted) and the boxes (tracking how they voted); these can be stored separately to increase the number of measures which need to be compromised to pull off an attack.

      People understand physical security measures, and the adversarial system [where many of the folks involved in the actual work of implementing an election are selected by the competing parties] helps to prevent corruption. Not so many people understand electronic security, and it's much less amenable to traditional oversight and validation mechanisms.

  4. Voting computers, not machines by moonbender · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One of the many good points Rob made during his talk at last year's 23C3 in Berlin was to call the things voting computers as opposed to voting machines. Machine is associated with a simple, understandable and verifiable piece of gear, while computers are very complex, difficult to understand even by experts and unverifiable. Although the commonly used term (in Dutch) was machines, too, they exclusively referred to computers, and within a fairly short period of time everybody called them that way. In a way this was their first major success. Funnily enough, when they - much later - got hold of an actual device, the label on the back said voting computer, too: that's what the manufacturer had called them all along, internally, that is.

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    1. Re:Voting computers, not machines by Merkwurdigeliebe · · Score: 2

      But a voting computer is one that computes votes (not so much a computer that has a right to vote and then so votes). So, it's a bit of an ambiguous term.

  5. Radiation???? by 8127972 · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Of those five, four machines emitted radiation in such a way that the votes cast could be monitored."

    Some tin foil would solve that problem.

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    This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
  6. crimes against UI by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 2, Funny
    the one machine that stayed within the radiation limits used a green-on-red color-scheme for its screen
    Who designed that one, and which "free Myspace templates" site does he frequent?
  7. On democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    This whole thing is wildly inaccurate. If you're using these numbers to do anything important, you're insane.

  8. Colourblind by Petersko · · Score: 4, Informative

    "NewVote received its final deathblow when it became clear that the one machine that stayed within the radiation limits used a green-on-red color-scheme for its screen. And that would be a small problem for the 4% of all men that cannot distinguish between red and green."

    Good heavens. As a a person with good old-fashioned red/green colourblindness I assure you that this statement is false.

    There is no way that 4% of men can't distinguish between red and green. There's some difficulty in some circumstances, but a green on red colour screen on a voting machine would almost certainly be readable. They'll use high-contrast hues.

    The vast majority of red-green colourblindness results from a cone deficiency. In some circumstances it's difficult to make out some differences, but if I see a red shirt, I know it's red and not green. Green lettering on the red shirt would likely be completely readable.

    However, I seldom see purple. Usually it looks blue to me.

    1. Re:Colourblind by govtpiggy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Just a verification of the parent. I'm also red/green colorblind and while I can't see this I can tell the difference between red and green. It's colors that are only separated by shades of red or green that are a problem. Think white to pink or blue to purple.

      --
      do you know squarepusher?
    2. Re:Colourblind by Petersko · · Score: 2, Informative

      You are aware that your condition is not a uniform one correct? I am unsure from your post if you are claiming that because YOU could see it just fine that the statement is incorrect or something else. In any case I can also add a completely irrelevant anecdote to the story: my father in law cannot see red from green in MOST cases. My point is that unless you have some sort of evidence that the statistics mentioned in the article are incorrect then your statement is just as bad if not worse than theirs. Worse in that theirs is at least being published by someone and has some kind of review.

      Start HERE.

      The article states that 4% of men "can't distinguish between red and green". "Can't" is a pretty strong statement. Deuteranomaly is the type that affects the distinguishing of red/green, and it's not complete, and only in 1% of men.

  9. Wrong, voting machines are winning the battle. by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The "Wijvertrouwenstemcomputersniet" protesters has been manouevred into a corner by the industry and the state. The group's principal argument has always been this:

    "Voting machines (without a paper trail) make it impossible to verify the fairness of an election"

    In addition, they have gone to show how election results could be manipulated, and how cast votes could be read from outside the polling station. The protesters have had a lot of success getting a number of machines removed from the elections, and they have certainly managed to put the issue onto the political agenda and the public debates. However, with all this media coverage, they are failing to state, re-state and re-re-state their principle argument: that there is a fundamental problem with using voting machines. I have never heard one of their spokespersons state that fixing these small problems with the computers is not enough, and is basically a side-issue. The machine's proponents have taken this opportunity to turn the fundamental problem into a side-issue.

    The press, politicians (who want to use voting machines) and the voting machine manufacturers jumped on the issue, stating: "You are right, there's an issue with certain machines but we'll get it fixed". When the machines get fixed, the protest group's role will have been played out. Any subsequent complaints about the fundamental issues with voting machines will be dismissed by the public as whining from a group who are just looking for any excuse to go on protesting.

    --
    If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    1. Re:Wrong, voting machines are winning the battle. by BalanceOfJudgement · · Score: 2, Insightful
      ...computers save time and money. In theory, the vote counts can be available the instant the polls close, and we need to hire fewer people to administer an election. Furthermore, it saves time for the voter. You walk in, tap a touchscreen a few times, and you're done. There are many more reasons, but in essence it's time and money.
      Ahhh.. only in a capital-obsessed culture is this even a meaningful reason, much less a valid one.

      I, for one, am willing to pay more if it means ensuring the integrity of my country's voting system. That anyone thinks otherwise seems, to me, at least... irresponsible.
      --

      We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.
  10. But what if someone just looked over your shoulder by Radon360 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's nice to see that someone cares about the secrecy of the voting process, but I would think that integrity in the vote count itself would take a much higher priority over this issue.

    In some remote way, it reminds me of the military's concern long ago (and largely before my time) over the use of IBM Selectric typewriters, as the RF emissions (i.e. coils and motors starting and stopping, a primitive spark-gap transmitter in a sense) from the mechanisms could be detected and reconstituted into what was being typed from a short distance away.

  11. TEMPEST by Lehk228 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ahref=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TEMPESTrel=url2 html-3260http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TEMPEST>

    a few years ago this was a big deal and everyone was worried that the government was going to use radiation emitted by CRT monitors to reconstruct what was on the screen, people even made special fonts that minimized this by blurring and breaking up the edges of glyphs.

    then LCD's became cheap enough for just about anyone to buy.

    i wonder if these machines use a CRT monitor

    --
    Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  12. What's wrong with paper anyay? by xtal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I love technology as much as the next guy, but what's wrong with paper voting? Canada uses it, it scales nicely, there's a perfect record of who voted for what, with a nice X right there. You can track ballots in, and ballots out. Nobody knows who put the X on the paper.

    Pushy sales jobs make me nervous, and these things are being hawked like a $500 used car.

    --
    ..don't panic
  13. These aren't the reasons we're looking for by erroneus · · Score: 2, Informative

    We want them gone because their integrity and reliability are in question, not whether they meet the "ADA" (or equivalent in other countries) requirements or that voter privacy might be violated.

    In fact, having a machine that specifically reads voter responses for the purpose of comparing them with the machine's reported voting results might be an EXCELLENT thing. If the tally's don't match, we'd know something was afoot.

  14. Some background info by InternetVoting · · Score: 2, Informative

    A Dutch citizen group "Wij vertrouwen stemcomputers niet" ("We do not trust voting machines"), released a report performing a secuirty review of the the Nedap/Groenendaal ES3B voting systems. Chapter 6 (page 14) covers "Compromising emanations" (i.e. TEMPEST). The Nedap machines are DRE systems, but are not a traditional touchscreen. They use an electromechanical touch sensitive full-face ballot interface (similar to the Shouptronic). However, the TEMPEST issues were not related to the input features, but rather the small LCD screen used to verify votes. Similar to many optical scan voting system readers.

    While the subject of compromising emanations is one that deserves attention, ultimately what allowed relevant information to be interpreted from the emissions was that a major political party's name contains an accents, an extended ASCII character (Christen Democratisch Appèl) resulting in an emissions variation, something less likely to be a serious concern in the United states.

    "Radiation"
    Do not think your standard definition for radiation. Think more like spurious emission. It doesn't mean the voting machine runs on Plutonium... These types of emissions are released at some level from all electronic devices. It only becomes a problem when the emissions escape the device housing.

    Report
    Check out the full report. It's a pretty interesting look in this one particular voting machine.

  15. SMS voting? by C0rinthian · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why don't we make a reality TV show out of the election?

    Think about it. You get the candidates on TV, mebbe have them compete somehow. Have some experts in politics and government ask them questions that the candidates must answer. We can even have them tour the country making public appearances to try and gather support!

    And here's the best part: The people actually get to vote for who gets to be President! Just send a text message to 1-800-VOTEUSA and choose your favorite candidate!

    Imagine the ratings!