Another Indian State Moving To FOSS

james.infidel writes "The Hindu, a leading national newspaper, reports that the Communist government of Kerala (the state with the highest literacy rate in India) has announced its all-out support for FOSS in the draft IT policy announced yesterday. The draft also calls for preferential treatment for companies coming forward to work in the FOSS domain.

Comments

Well..more like Socialist..

[cOdEgUru]

Even though the color of the flag is red and they adopt the name Communists, they are far from it. And atleast a little bit of why this measure suddenly took off has to do with the Communist Party wanting to align itself to the more conservative communist ideals than what West Bengal (another Communist state) has done, which is to embrace more private investment.

But I am glad to find my state laying out the red carpet for FOSS.

Re:Well..more like Socialist..

[Marxist Hacker 42]

So if you're in that state, can you answer the question the obvious troll raises? What sort of communists (or even Socialists) are against free public education systems as a government service? Or is the troll a fake and you don't really have an illiteracy problem there?

Re:Well..more like Socialist..

[cOdEgUru]

I dont think anyone has claimed that the Communist Party is against education in Kerala. Public Education is dirt cheap (I am not sure if its mandatory) and society as such played a big role in making sure kids were in school during the day.

The Communist Govt put forth night schools for Seniors so as to increase literacy across the state, as a result of which we hit 100% literacy rate.

Re:Well..more like Socialist..

[morgan_greywolf]

Heh. Don't you know anything? Most of us stupid Yanks don't know the difference between socialism and communism and many believe that they are the same thing, all the while not realizing that we've had socialism in the U.S. (albeit watered down) for more than 60 years. Anyway, FOSS isn't really a socialist or communist idea anyway. If anything, the ideals of Free Software are aligned more closely with American Libertarianism than anything else.

Impact on population and demographics

[quixoticsycophant]

While some may be concerned about the mass exodus of an entire Indian state to Foss, on behalf of the people of Oklahoma I say welcome!

Re:Impact on population and demographics

[Wateshay]

I'm curious, when writing that post did you think about the potential double meaning in a comment about Indian states migrating to OK?

Tranlation of the draft IT policy

[Harmonious Botch]

1.1Developments in Information and Communication Technologies (ICT) are transforming the society in dramatic ways. These developments are creating hitherto unimaginable opportunities and possibilities, even as they pose new challenges for a society like ours
Computers make a difference.

1.2 In the production processes of today's world, information and knowledge mean a great deal more than material resources and physical inputs.
Knowing how to use them is good

1.3 ICT has opened up the possibility of radically different information exchange patterns by facilitating faster and more efficient dissemination of information. It can play a vital role in sustaining the democratic ethos of the Indian society and ensuring a high level of transparency in governance
Nobody controls the net

1.4 Having achieved high physical quality of life index and social infrastructure development, Kerala is ideally positioned to use ICT as a catalyst for the all-round economic prosperity and social uplift of its people
We haven't completely exhausted the budget

1.5 ICT and Information Technology Enabled Services (ITES) have by now turned into major sectors of economic activity in the country. Over the past one-and-a-half decades, these sectors have shown remarkable growth in the country, both in terms of export revenue and employment generation
This is a good source of tax revenue

1.6 In almost every sector of socio-economic activity ranging from industrial production to education and public healthcare, ICT now plays an important role in optimizing the processes, thereby improving the quality and efficiency of human endeavors
The net is cool

1.7 Growing importance of ICT in the present-day world leads to the emergence of a divide, which can be called the "digital-divide," between those who have access to sophisticated ICT infrastructure and those who do not. This is a matter of concern to civil society at large; and a challenge that has to be overcome through conscious intervention, both from the Government and the sections on the privileged side of the "digital divide
Web junkies don't riot

1.8 The Government has a comprehensive view of ICT as a vehicle for transforming Kerala into a knowledge-based, economically vibrant, democratic and inclusive society. By the term "inclusive," the Government means that the benefits of the socio-economic transformation possible through ICT should reach every single citizen of the State. This policy document defines the Government's vision, mission and strategy for achieving the same.
We're gonna spend lots of money

Old news

[rumith]

God, that was back in October http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=kerala+linu x&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&btnG=Search+Archives

Re:commies?

[WindowsIsEvil]

It is obviously a Microsoft conspiracy to perpetuate their monopoly and keep Linux down.

Re:communix?

[carlivar]

Yeah, usually communism and the word "mandatory" go hand-in-hand!

Re:Troll?

[posterlogo]

Agreed -- that's totally just bait for some. I doubt that communism or literacy rate have anything to do with it. All it does is draw attention to the concept that some Indian states have different forms of government, and that many of the poor there are illiterate. As the story itself points out, other Indian states have already embraced FOSS.

NOT COMMUNIST

[posterlogo]

Do a little homework. It's an Indian state. ALL of India is a democracy, politically. Where economy is concerned, Kerala operates under welfare based democratic socialism. They have a parliamentary system of representative democracy, just like most of the democratic world. A quick google/wiki search might help james.infidel avoid sounding like an ignorant in the future.

Re:NOT COMMUNIST

[Knuckles]

In contrast to what US brainwashing tells you, communism and democracy are not opposites.

Re:NOT COMMUNIST

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

To be frank, you're flat out wrong. It's not a matter of opinion, or some kind of "west vs east" brainwashing. It's a simple matter of definition.

You're mistaking "communism" with "marxism." Marxism is a political system based upon extreme socialism, but which usually misleadingly refers to "communism" instead. Marxism, in fact, advocated democracy as part of the theory, but later political figures who paid lip service to the concept paid that same lip service to democracy.

Communism, is an economic method that is very easily explained. Quite simply communism is the concept that a smaller group (commune or communist cell) within a larger economy can share some or all resources and the decision making regarding those resources. Theoretically this shared resource allocation and decision making results in greater efficiency. In practice this works very well for small cell sizes and very poorly for large cell sizes. This is because as cell sizes increase to the point where decision making is affecting strangers, people stop caring about them and act disinterestedly or selfishly. As a result correct decision making is not motivated and further the consolidation of so much power into so few hands lends itself easily to that power being seized by a totalitarian regime.

I would willingly admit that the communism, as defined by those who derived from the theories of Karl Marx, is not the opposite of democracy. In practice, it certainly is.

This is not the case. You are trying to define "communism" as only extreme applications of communism with very large cell sizes or in fact socialism, where everyone is in one cell. This is completely wrong. All states subscribe to a blend of capitalism, socialism, and communism and the communist component is applied almost everywhere in ways that are not Marxism. The atomic family within the US completely fits the definition of a communist cell. A family shares a home, utilities, food, etc. and the decision making is made collectively, although not necessarily equitably. Aside from that, within the US, co-ops, communes, and monasteries are all communist cells. For example, I know a lot of people in a server colocation co-op. They all donate time or old servers or money to maintain a number of co-located servers which they share for Web hosting, e-mail, IRC, and a number of other services. Together they get better rates, to the point of being absurdly cheap. That also fits the definition of a communist cell, even though they only share one given resource. In many places around the world villages act as officially recognized communist cells, most of which are democratically operated. To claim that all applications of communism are anti-democratic is simply uninformed.

Moreover, automatically assuming someone is brainwashed because you didn't bother to consider what communism really implies kind of detracts from whatever point you thought you were making.

The US was subjected to a planned and directed campaign of propaganda designed to confuse and misinform the public about what communism is, ironically, in a cold war against socialists. Claiming that people are brainwashed is not so far fetched. Economists recognize that every economy is to some degree socialist and to some degree communist or it is unlikely to be stable for any length of time. China and Cuba both practice more socialism than is the norm. The US is about average, but applies it in uncommon ways. China and Cuba are also both capitalist to a large extent and both are moving more and more in that direction.

If you're looking for extremely communist countries (as opposed to socialist), look to countries with very large communist cell sizes. Madagascar, for example, theoretically has three layers of government: communes, states, and national. Realistically, the states basically do not exist. Most of the country lives in small villages and each village, acts as a communist cell sharing a large number of resources. Whether that extreme cell size is benefici

Re:NOT COMMUNIST

[vidarh]

two of the most prototypical communist nations,

"Communist nation" is an oxymoron.

Just because western media has chosen to call these states communist does not make it so. They don't even call themselves communist, but socialist, just as the Soviet Union also never claimed to be communist, since making that claim would shake the very ideological foundation that the Soviet leaders used to excuse their massive abuses of power and lack of democracy. Their excuse was that the sacrifices of the people was needed to build a society that could once in the future become communist - Soviet leaders presented this future as anything from a couple of generations to a thousand years into the future, all the while they moved their country ever further away from the ideological principles they claimed to believe in.

You certainly appear to not have "considered what communism really implies".

For one, communism implies the withering away of the state. The state in Marxist theory has as it's primary purpose the oppression of one class by another, and so in a classless society the state would cease to exist in any meaningful form. Or did you miss that part of Marxist theory? It's the central thesis of Lenin's "State and Revolution"

Presumably you also missed the whole "classless" part. A society where the state retains power over the populace simply can't be communist as that power need to be exercised by someone, and those "someone" would have privileges that make them a separate class from the populace at large. And unless you truly are brainwashed it should be blatantly obvious that countries like Cuba and China are as divided by class as countries like the US.

Re:So?

[joeyspqr]

from the specific (me) to the general (the world)

there are 3 programmers of Indian descent within eyeshot of my cube and more down the hall. there are what, 700 million? people there. Ghandi was arguably one of the greatest leaders in all of human history. India is a nation with a brilliant history spanning millenia, and a rapidly modernizing, vibrant economy developing a democratic government that has to deal with dozens of ethnicities and religions ... something the US (or anyone else) hasn't quite figured out yet.

So there. India is the face of the future. India matters.

Re:commies?

[namityadav]

Just to make it clear, India is a democracy. In fact, India is world's largest democracy. The government in Kerala is also chosen democratically.

When people say "Communist government of Kerala", they actually mean a democratically chosen government which is influenced by some Marxist concepts.

700 million?

[benhocking]

I'm not sure what your 700 million is supposed to refer to, but if you're referring to the population of India, it's almost 1.1 billion now.

Re:communix?

[micktaggart]

So communism works, only not with humans are you saying?

Re:commies?

[hal9035]

Now, wait a minute. It is, or it isn't. With US, or against US. The Free Democratic Society or commie terrorists...... Which is it? Let's ask President Bush........

Re:commies?

[cHALiTO]

So it IS a communist government.

Democracy and communism aren't mutually exclusive, you know.

Quid Pro Quo

[Enrique1218]

India is profiting from outsourcing of American jobs. But, what are they suppose to buy from us. Software seems to be one of the last industries to actually employed Americans. If India is going to FOSS, then software industry would suffer from the lost customers. Call me stupid, but isn't trade done best when the door swings both ways. I don't see how we are to sustain our economy with growing trade deficits with Asian countries. I don't see the silver lining in India going FOSS.

Microsoft attempted to reverse the decision

[Anonymous Coward]

...with $24 worth of beads. Ballmer threw a chair when he found out they were the wrong kind of Indians.

Re:commies?

[namityadav]

I didn't agree or disagree with calling the Kerala government communist. Anyway, according to wikipedia, a communist state is a term used by many political scientists to describe a form of government in which the state operates under a one-party system and declares allegiance to Marxism-Leninism or a derivative thereof. Communist states may have several legal political parties, but the Communist Party is constitutionally guaranteed a dominant role in government. Consequently, the institutions of the state and of the Communist Party become intimately entwined.

The government in Kerala is elected by the public. Even a government dominated by communists cannot impose a truly communist state. Private enterprise exists in Kerala, which could not in a communist system. And the state government does not control the economy the way it would in a communist system. People can democratically remove the government in elections and choose a non-communist government. Because of all these reasons, I thought it was important to make this distinction clear.