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FBI Arrests Neteller Execs
Alcibaides writes "In a follow-up to the 2006 law attacking Internet gambling, the FBI arrested two former Neteller executives in 'connection with the creation and operation of an Internet payment services company that facilitated the transfer of billions of dollars of illegal gambling proceeds.' Apparently, the execs were 'ambushed' as they passed through the U.S. on connecting flights. Consequently, Neteller has dropped all gambling-related activity to U.S. customers, a move not expected for several months."
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
Note to self....
Don't ever take a flight that stops over in the US if I've done something that the US might not like, even if it's perfectly legal in my country.
Emerald Astrology
Well, I played too much online poker anyways.
I don't see why the federal government is making such a huge deal out of online gambling, aside from the fact that it is currently not taxed. I don't really think the government deserves any more money, but I'd rather pay a small tax on my gaming than have it outlawed as some mysteriously corrupt moral issue. Other than taxation, how is this any different from the government endorsed lottery or allowed casinos in Atlantic City and Vegas?
The warmaking industry is apparently a far safer place for an executive to be. After all, their products are only being used to kill people. It's not like they're offering a completely voluntary service like gambling, which of course is among the most terrible things that can be done. I mean, how dare somebody be given the ability to spend their money as they choose!
It is worrisome how the US is trying to enforce its law on the whole world.
Many companies/people operate fully within the law of the land they live in. If this is breaking a US law, then the US should work with that government to harmonize the laws.
This is similar to how Muslim courts found danish cartoonist guilty of depicting mohammed, and condemned them to death.
don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
Leaving aside for a moment the ridiculous two faced nature of American anti-gambling laws, this is just beyond a joke. As I understand it, the two former execs in question had left the company before the SAFE Port Act was passed. So they've been arrested for setting up a company that is 100% legal in their country of origin, and was legal at the time in the USA as well (in fact, it's still legal for non-gambling related payments), and they no longer have anything to do with the company in question, aside from still holding shares.
"Land of the free", huh? I'm lost for words. The American legal system is just a joke.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
"It is worrisome how the US is trying to enforce its law on the whole world."
Respectfully, I have to call bullshit. It's not the US trying to enforce its law on the whole world. Its the US trying to enforce its laws within their borders. Gambling businesses are making money from people living within US borders where that business is illegal. If you violate US law, don't step foot within their borders. They may arrest you. Having said that, the US would do a whole lot better working with these folks for a share of the profits. It certainly is not unreasonable to say, "Give us a share for letting your business be legal in our jurisdiction". Besides, it might subsidize my income tax.
I reserve the right to think for myself. Others' opinions are optional. Puppy on lap = typos...not illiteracy.
So *this* is the reason there's no such thing as sterile transit through US airports. gfd.
What you are suggesting is very dangerous. If I put up a web page, it should sufficethat I comply with all local laws.
If I have to consider the laws of all nations in the world, I pretty much have to hire attorneys from each of the contries to review my website.
And I can not:
1. Enjoy fredom of expression (Illegal all over, including china)
2. Critizise leaders (putin, il-jung-sum, most communists and others)
3. Advertize alcoholic beverages (Illegal in many arab countires)
4. Have any sexual material (again illegal in many countires)
5. Have any religious material worshipping any other gods than allah
6. Have any religious material worshipping any other gods than jhave
7. Have any religious material worshipping any other gods than
8. Download music(illegal in USA)
An in many cases illegal means "To be stoned to death"
Is this what you advocate?
don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
The offline casinos, not just in the US, must love this action. I wonder how much they paid for it?
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make install -not war
The only wrinkle in this case is that it is my understanding they committed the offense while not in the US.
The only wrinkle?! That's the difference between not committing a crime and committing one!
You must understand, our (the US) government doesn't give a damn about the rights of anyone, the laws of any other country, morality, or justice if it contradicts their agenda. Their attitude is basically to hell with the rest of the world, we'll just stomp on you if you give us any grief, take away foreign aid, etc.
You can thank the uninformed, stupid, voters and the even more uniformed, and even more stupid people that don't vote.
PGA
I just bought a bunch of poker books and after a trip to the bahamas to play poker with a bunch of the pros, my interest in poker has gone back up. I just reopend my neteller account and was ready for action. Oops!
So really, is there any reason for this law? I mean, not a reason for the government, but for the people, you know... who the goverment should be making laws for.
Why does the US Government feel that they are entitled to get a cut of every single thing that we do? We payed taxes on the money we play poker with, AND if you make enough playing poker, you have to pay taxes on that! So what the hell do they want? Do they want to take a tax on every single hand played?
This is really just a disgusting show by our goverment where they are not even trying to be subtle in showing us that they can fuck with us whenever they want to.
You take it, I don't want it...
US law apparently says that you can be guilty of an offense without ever going there.
Most countries would agree with that stance. Suppose you sat north of the US Canadian border and started launching RPGs into the US? Don't you think that it would pretty reasonable for the US to figure that you have violated US laws by that action even though you have not entered the US?
Or suppose I shipped food into Canada labelled as baby formula when it contained Botulitis toxin? Wouldn't you think that Canada would figure that I had violated Canadian law?
Some of the comments in this thread are utteerly ridiculous in thier views of what a nation regards as its sovereign rights.
John David Lefebvre was in his home in Malibu, CA, when he was arrested. Yes, that's right, he bought a house in America with some of the proceeds of his stock sale. In short, he was not "travelling through." [sigh]
Stephen Eric Lawrence was in the Virgin Islands when he was arrested. Does that place get many connecting flights?
We've got to be careful writing these petitions. We don't want to include facts that can easily be looked up and disproven, or the FBI will laugh us off.
There is a fine line between recklessness and courage... -- Paul McCartney
is that these guys are not officers of the company, or employees. They are stockholders.
These two gentlemen founded what was a perfectly legal business in the Isle of Man, Neteller PLC, in 1999. Mr Lawrence resigned as a non-executive director of the Company on 13 October 2006 having stepped down as non-executive chairman of the Company on 11 May 2006. Mr Lefebvre resigned as a non-executive director of the Company on 15 December 2005.
With the passage of the "Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006" the activities of Neteller PLC in regard to transferring funds of US citizens for the purpose of gambling became illegal.
Think it through. If you founded, or are an 'owner' by virtue of stock holdings, of a company whose activities are declared illegal somewhere in the world, and you happen to pass through a territory of that country, you could be held, your passport take away, without recourse. Before you hop on that next international flight, is every company in your retirement plan's mutual funds squeaky clean in all places you might touch down?
Furthermore (I've said this many times before), I believe that the 2006 law was completely driven by the Vegas casinos. Making online gambling illegal does several great things for their cause: 1) It stops or greatly slows the unbelievable flood of cash leaving the US and going into the pockets of Party Poker, etc. 2) It forces the US lawmakers to decide whether or not poker is a form of gambling, and thus, illegal. That's the biggie. As part of the 2006 law, a committee was established to determine the answer to that exact question. And I'll bet you that the same dirty Vegas (read Mob) money that got that law passed in the first place is also going to ensure that the committee's decision is that poker is a "game of skill" and is therefore exempt from all this hooplah over online gambling. And presto, the Vegas bigwigs have an open door to legal online poker, which is by far the most lucrative form of online gambling.
I never said I thought our laws on internet gambling are just laws. And I wasnt referring to the actual laws of Cuba, it was a hypothetical situation I was referring to. I could just as easily used "Country X", I just used a country that is close to the US and hostile.
None of that makes the analogy wrong. It was late at night when I posted, so I probably should have picked a better analogy but didnt.
How about some dictator of a country (Country X) killing hundreds of thousands of his own citizens, as well as any foreign citizens stupid enough to enter his country. By his laws it is completely lawful for him to do so. Lets just say there are 23 other countries (Countries A - W) in the world that have similar laws allowing dictators to kill whoever they want to in their own country.
If the dictator of Country X decided to travel to San Deigo for vacation, I would like to believe that the United States has every right to arrest him for crimes against humanity even if that isnt against the law in his country. He didnt even break the law in our country, but I still dont think it is wrong to detain him. Even if there are a large number of other countries that agree with his laws, I still dont think it is wrong to arrest this man.
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-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
Poppycock. It is illegal in the US to transfer funds to an offshore gambling operation. These activities occurred in the US, not in England, France and Timbuktu.
It is not illegal for Americans to gamble online. What is illegal is for a business to collect money in the US resulting from that activity. This is exactly what Neteller does, i.e. perform financial transactions in the US that are illegal.
"the RPG firing would be illegal in Canada too. I'm pretty sure online gambling is only illegal in the US so far."
I am sure it would be illegal in Canada to fire the RPG. I am not so sure that shipping adulterated food offshore would be illegal. But that is not the point. The point is that it is perfectly reasonable to envision a case where a person who is not physically in country XYZ could violate that country's laws. Food quality requirements vary considerably from one nation to the next.
It is irrelevant to this point as to whether the country the person is in has a similar law or not.
As far as the US being the only country where online gambling is illegal, that is certainly not true. Australia for one also prohibits online gambling. I am sure there are others.