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Schools Act to Short-Circuit 'Cyberbullying'
Carl Bialik from WSJ writes "So-called cyberbullying is a growing problem for school administrators, the Wall Street Journal reports. What may once have been snickers in the hallway can now be an excruciatingly public humiliation spread via email, text messaging and online teen forums. From the article: '"There's always the legal discussion of 'if it doesn't happen at school, can a district take action?'" says Joe Wehrli, policy-services director for the Oregon School Boards Association. "If a student is harassed for three hours at night on the Web and they come to school and have to sit in the same classroom with the student that's the bully, there is an effect on education, and in that way, there is a direct link to schools," he argues.'"
but words will never hurt me This is the biggest load of bullshit ever. Words hurt, really hurt and the damage done by psychological bullying is far deeper than physical bullying.
Schools here in the UK have as part of their remit to tackle the serious problem of bullying in whatever form it may take. I applaud this initiative.
init 11 - for when you need that edge.
In the real world, self-defense is both a right and a duty.
Back when I was in high school, 20+ years ago, I didn't have the worry about cyber-bullying; I was more concerned about the physical, hands-on kind. This lasted precisely until the point where I learned to fight back. And I still have very vivid memories of hurting people, and of the satisfaction I took in it; does that make me a sadist? I don't think so -- I certainly don't go looking for fights these days, or try to hurt people in any way. The satisfaction was equal parts getting my own back and knowing that I was finally putting a stop to the torment that had made my life hell for years.
You know what? It worked. After a year or so of fighting damn near every day with people who had considered me their own personal punching bag, the bullying stopped. And not just for me, but for many of my equally victimized friends. That may have been "two wrongs" -- hell, it may have been a hundred wrongs -- but damned if it didn't make things right.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
/ignore
:)
Okay, so that wasn't exactly what he told me. But that's how it applies to internet bullies.
Bullies get their jollies by making you look little. They want to feel superior to you. If you just put every account they create on ignore and don't bother reading whatever crap they post online in an attempt to get a rise out of you, they'll get bored and go elsewhere. The problem is that a lot of kids think they have to argue back any time anyone says something about them. They can't shut up long enough to realize they are giving the bully exactly what he wants.
Favorite stunt against a bully: I once told a guy I'd let him hit me three times and if he could knock me down with any of those three punches I'd give him $20. Three hits later I was still standing and he was seriously reconsidering the idea of a fight. He was a wuss and I knew it
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
So causing someone to 'crash emotionally under the pressure' is fine? It's their fault for not being tough enough?
Oh, I met lots like you when I was thirteen, many who said it was my fault for not being 'man enough', for being different, for not being good at sports, for taking pleasure and pride in learning. Believe me, the kicks, the punches, were nothing compared to the psychological hurts. I almost welcomed them because after they had finished at least they left me alone. Bruising fades but even now, in my fifties, I bear the scars of the taunting.
init 11 - for when you need that edge.
Yeah, usually physical abuse is just one part of it. All my physical wounds have long since healed from my days of being bullied. I've been hurt much worse in boxing matches and it doesn't phase me. But the mental wounds never really heal. It's been probably ten years since anyone bullied me. I lift weights, I'm a boxer and I'm pretty big...so no one looking at me would think I was bullied. But my ego is totally smashed. When you go through years of being a total whipping boy for every sadistic asshole at your school and the "authorities" can't or won't do anything you can't just "snap out of it". Now I'm hopelessly shy, no confidence with women, I always feel like an outsider even with people I've known for years...people want to know what the hell is wrong with me. I was bullied and tormented every day all through the formative years of my life that's what!
Also there's such a stigma attached to being bullied that no one even talks about it. It's like sexual abuse, it's just something you can't casually talk about. It really is serious. Maybe someone should make some kind of anonymous support group for survivors. Is "survivors" to extreme? No. Get tormented every day for ten years and you are going to have mental issues, sorry!
In some ways, schools parallel the workplace. The workplace is getting more intrusive on what you outside on your own time. Can you say drug testing for example. Also, some companies frown on some risky activities such as motorcycling. The biggest thing is getting fired for bogging even if anonymous and even not mentioning company name.
On one hand, the bullying needs to end but how far can a school go without being intrusive. One idea is the school steps in only if the behavior affects the classroom as mentioned. The connection should be documented just in case of future legal action. Most schools districts have a legal department and that department needs to be utilized just like companies.
Posting AC for obvious reasons:
Stay out of my living room! I am the parent here, not a well-meaning but fascist bureaucrat.
As both a parent, and a public school employee, I feel I must both agree with you, and respectfully disagree.
As a parent, I would like nothing more than to be able to bring up my child in the way that I see fit.
As a public school employee, I have seen far to many cases where students come to school dirty, hungry, or otherwise neglected to believe that this is possible. Teachers have to teach "Warm Fuzzies" that I believe should be taught at home. (things such as manners, among others) Teachers are also "Mandated Reporters", they are trained to detect problems such as abuse (physical, emotional, sexual, & substance) and are obligated to report if they suspect problems. The principal at the elementary school here has done numerous home visits with a police escort for security.
As for school officials being "a well-meaning but fascist bureaucrat" please attend your local school board meetings (They are by law open to the public) realize that the school board members are elected officials. And for God's sake, get involved with your child's education! Also, realize that Academics should come before Athletics, Dance class, Karate, etc. Don't gripe when your son or daughter has homework. Have then turn of the TV, Put away the Video games and the Computer, and READ!
Please realize that students are at school for 9 hours a day (assuming 8-3), that means that they are at home for 15 hours a day. As a parent, you need to pull your own weight!
One of those was the teachers encouraging other students to laugh at you whenever you screwed-up.
Since I screwed-up a lot, I soon developped the ability to not give a rat's ass about what other people think of me, an ability that has served me pretty well in the decades since.
But of course, in a politically-correct ages, busybodies have to have something to do, too, no?
...for bullying to occur?
This statement illustrates the problem. Bullying must be tolerated for it to occur. The best person who can deny a bully permission to bully is the bully, himself. That's called self-control and if the bully had it, this issue wouldn't come up. So what's next?
Schools and parents think they can deny a bully permission to be a bully. They can't. They aren't there when the bad guy acts out. They can punish afterward but they can't do a damn thing to stop the bad behavior while it's actually happening. Like training a dog, if the conditioning isn't presented timely, it's useless.
No, there's only one person who can effectively deny a bully permission to bully: the victim. In real life, legal consequences and PC-nonviolent sensibilities be damned, the only effective way to change the behavior of a bully is for his victim-selection process to fail. When he comes across a "victim" who knocks out his teeth instead of cowering in fear, the bully will stop. (For the moment. He may have to be "conditioned" a few times before he truly learns to think before he acts.)
What amazes me about the quote above is that a victim would remain online for hours, getting bullied, while shutting down the bully is a simple matter of turning off IMs (or whatever channel the bully is using to reach the victim) and going on about ones business.
We don't need to protect victims by trying to defend against bullying. We need to teach victims how to short-circuit the whole process. They are the ones with the strongest legitimate interest in seeing the problem solved. They are the *only* ones who are in the right place at the right time to implement solutions. Hit back. Turn off IMs. Whatever, just stop being a victim.
It sounds to me like you have some growing up left to do before you realize that all people are people - not just you. Think about this from the teacher's perspective (the poor $25,000/yr civil servant you seek to burden with yet more responsibility for sanitizing the first 18 years of a person's life before sending them out, unprepared into the big bad Real World) - "Oh, shit - Kray1975 and Big Meanie are bickering again. Now I have to break it up and take sides. Damn, whose self-esteem do I damage this time? Ah, flip a coin."
My wife and I both had this ephiphany not too long ago - we used to see ourselves as victimized in school, but when we looked back over our childhood, we were mean to other kids, too. We weren't the lone hero in the movie, silently dealing with injustice and unfairness, shining beacons of purity and goodness awash in a sea of cruelty... instead, we were normal people in a world full of normal people. Some days you're the dog, some days you're the fire hydrant.
Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
But teachers do have a moral responsibility. Hell, if I think about what I would do if I were a teacher and was facing such behavior by my students who were mocking other students, I would sit and spend a lot of time would them, scold them, reason with them, try to make them understand and even though 90 % wouldn't not understand, the 10 % who would, justify the energy and time I would spend on this. Moreover, there are plenty of bad influences on children these days, coming from everywhere, so the least any good teacher can do is to spend time to guide these students, knowing that they are probably gonna mock the teacher for 'lecturing' and being boring, but when the mind is not listening, the subconscious absorbs...even if they don't understand 99 % of what you are saying, unknowingly or subconsciently definitely some impact will be made. So Yes, any good teacher would take that responsibility (and the pain that comes with it).
Life is about being a Phoenix!
Very few parents would enjoy hearing that their darling is a vicious little bully.
Well, true, few parents would enjoy hearing that. However, most of them would not take their displeasure out on their little terror. Nope, in my years as a teacher's husband, what I have seen is that 50% don't care, and 49% blame the teachers, the school, or the other students for any misbehavior their little darlings are participating in. Seriously, not quite the same thing, but just last week, my wife called a parent to inform her that "Little Johnny" was failing her class b/c he didn't do his work and slept thru class. If you guessed that the parent promised to make sure little Johnny got enough sleep and started doing his homework, bzzzzt. "Well, he is probably just intimidated by you. Maybe you should try to be more approachable." We'll ignore the fact that my wife is a mild-mannered, 5'6" 125 lb woman (the kid is on the football team), and just skip straight to , even if true, WTF does that have to do w/ not doing work and sleeping in class?
Nope, parents won't enjoy hearing their kids are bullying others (except for the assclowns that think that demonstrates some sort of admirable toughness), but most of them will simply want to know why the school doesn't do something about it, not actually volunteer to parent their child themselves.
...sometimes, in order to hurt someone very badly, you have to tell that person terrible lies. - PA
You may have read something into my post that wasn't there; I fully agree that the school (and, if necessary, the law) should punish bullies, and try to prevent bullying. I'd have been delighted if the school had kept me out of that situation in the first place! But just as you say "buying better locks" is an after-the-fact reaction, so is punishment. My point is that students who are ready to defend themselves are less likely to be bullied at all. By no means do I advocate that children who tell their parents or teachers should be told to "toughen up" or "get over it."
Ideally, parents, teachers, and students should work together against bullying, to create an environment where would-be bullies realize that it's a bad idea before they start. But in the current environment, where bullies get away with their actions all the time, those who do defend themselves shouldn't be punished for it.
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
What measures should be taken to prevent the 15-30 dead school children and whose fault is it that the kid took a black market AK-47 to school?
I don't think the schools should replace the ATF. Sometimes a fucking crazy lunatic will snap and go on a rampage. An incredibly small amount of bullied kids turn into homicidal lunatics, while majority do not. Let's skip the arguments about slippery slopes in security vs. freedom.
15-30 kids is a very small amount of people. An unfortunate tragedy that is the price of living the way we do. There are a vast number of ways we can reduce the number of deaths in the world, and they all bear their costs. Thus, a reasonable accounting of return on investment must be made. A human life has a price and we make that decision constantly.
For example, the computers we're posting on slashdot with could have saved an african kid from death. But we don't care. We like our computers. It takes about $200 bucks to fix a cleft palate so that a kid can live a normal life instead of being ostracized, maybe murdered for not having a minor surgery that would leave them looking completely normal except for a small scar on their lip.
That's the cost of a human life. Some human lives cost more than others, proximity is a huge factor in the value of a life. 15-30 dead kids vs. inconveniecing many many millions of kids.
Same deal with speed limits. More die the higher the speed limit is. Perhaps we have 1 person dying at a nation-wide speed limit of 10mph. How much is that life worth? This isn't a "slippery slope" example to ask "where does it end?" This is a specific example that is identifying the end-point, the value of a human life. Should we drop the speed limit to 5mph? We have to recognize that even inconveniences are too high a price to pay for saving a human life when the inconvenience is spread across a sufficiently large number of people. And just as an aside, let's weigh the inconvenience of the millions hit by spam, and the life of the spammer. I'm not saying he should be punished with death(not saying he shouldn't either), it's just something to think about.
Buying our way out of inconveniences with human lives isn't a new decision to be made, it's one that we've already made by living our lifestyle. Even living as a hermit in the woods has an economic cost of the lives that could have been saved by volunteer work.
I still feel the same way. I was bullied in high school too. I actually tried to take my own life in grade 9 because of all the torture I went through, I stopped going to school for a while and my education suffered because of it. I was also abused by my father between the ages of 5 and 15. I'm still not right from it, I'm not able to socialize with anyone. I suffer from severe anxiety, stress, various social phobias and emetophobia (hense my nickname), which is the fear of vomitting (in public mostly). My anxiety issues are so severe that it causes nausea and vomitting (not good if you have a fear of vomitting!!) I can't meet women, because I get nervous, and when I get nervous, it builds and builds to the point of vomitting, and that's pretty fucking embarrassing (not to mention a bad first impression).
I have a lot of fears, but speaking up against bullying and abuse isn't one of them. IMO, it should be a criminal offense to bully someone to the point where you deprive them of their right to an education.
Here here. Well said.
And it's like looking in a freaking mirror. I only had seven or eight years of actual bullying, and then it only got physical once, but I still wear the mental scars on the inside. I'm also very shy, as you are, to the point that I'm somewhat scared of going new places or meeting new people without a friend in tow. I've never been able to approach women, and have basically given up on trying to get a girlfriend until after I graduate college. Hell, forget girlfriends, I can't even make regular friends. I have a few long-term close friends I can open up to, but unless someone opens themselves up to me, I keep everything close to my chest.
Whenever a relationship of any kind that does get created, I do my best to make them thin relationships, so that if they do break I won't hurt so much. I even distance myself from my own family. I stay at home on the weekends watching TV or on the internet because that means I won't have to go out and face people, nor have to worry about what they might think of me (people on the internet are anonymous, so I don't care what they think). I spent my last two years of high school (a different high school) making an ass out of myself so that people would think I was funny-weird and generally leave me alone. Yet I'm always so lonely. Ironic, since I keep it that way.
You're right on the stigma, too. I never talk about my bullying unless someone brings up the subject first. I usually start a frothing rant at that point, too, especially in discussions like this (check my profile and you'll see this is something like my seventh reply to this story).
A support group for "bully survivors" might actually be helpful, but I think it would be admonished by society, since in general "being tormented" isn't seen as nearly as much of a problem as drug abuse or alcohol. I think it's as bad, though they work on different frequencies, especially because it's far less out of your hands than the latter two are.