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Blame Gaming - Is the Blinking PS3 Sony's Fault?
mattnyc99 writes "After discovering a blinking problem associated with the HDCP handshake from an HDMI cable to the PlayStation 3, then solving it, Popular Mechanics has now set off a mini-war between Westinghouse and Sony. The 1080p TV set maker appears to be blaming Sony as the source of the blinking PS3, and the two powerhouse companies have organized a meeting to settle the score. From the article: '[Westinghouse had] one suggestion for PS3 owners with blinking Westinghouse televisions: Purchasing an HDMI to DVI adapter to bypass HDCP. Average cost of an adapter: $30. As we reported last week, Popular Mechanics has found an even easier solution: Unplugging the HDMI cable, and then plugging it back in'"
...STARING CONTEST!!!!!
Is obviously the best tool in this 'contest', without any doubt.
Coz eternity my friend, is a long *ing time.
Is the most appropriate course to play in this contest.
Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
As well as Westinghouse's. Anyone that wants to implement the DRM without full testing (or hell, implement it, period) gets the blame.
So - not Sony's fault. However, I don't see why Sony couldn't easily tell the PS3 to wait a bit longer for the handshake, which is probably what will happen.
Also - there's typically no need to re-plug the HDMI cable if you happen to have this blinking phenomenon happening to you; just cycle the video Sources on yout TV. That should force it to re-negotiate. (My TV doesn't do this but a friend's does.)
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
It seems odd that this issue would only appear on Westinghouse displays if the problem was with the PS3. I own a PS3 and have it connected to a Samsung TV via HDMI and have never seen this issue.
As Popular Mechanic already pointed out this is the TV's fault. Westinghouse isn't responding the the HDCP handshake fast enough (as defined by the HDCP spec). If you call Westinghouse they will even send out a tech to update your firmware to fix it.
Before you get that tech out to fix it, the DVI convert will work well, or Component cables, or the hack-o-the-week of unplug the HDMI cable.
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Westinghouse has already said in previous statements that there is a firmware upgrade for their televisions that fixes this problem.
I'm all for bashing Sony, but, if the TV has an upgrade that eliminates this problem, why is this Sony's fault?
Why they didn't just have HDMI's "copy protection" be ROT13?
It wouldn't be any less secure than the stupid crypto they used, would still make sure the DMCA anti-circumvention provisions are in force, and would be less likely to be F@#)$(*ed up.
(This post has been double-encrypted with ROT13. Reading this post without authorization will violate the DMCA anti-circumvention protections)
Test your net with Netalyzr
Here's where the providers of "stuff" for "us" have gone astray... They're arguing the wrong argument. None of us give a flying f*** whose fault the blinky is... we're freaking customers! And instead of apologies and fixes with humble apologies to the customers, these people don't have enough fingers on their hands to point blame on someone else.
Message to providers of stuff: Provide us with good products, easy to use, and at reasonable cost and price. If something is wrong with the product, fix it.
I knew about the HDMI->DVI solution a while ago as I started off without an HDMI->HDMI cable. After installing the 1.50 firmware released last night my PS3 menu would not appear. I got a black screen (but the TV detected signal). When I managed my way blindly through the menu to start a game the game appeared fine. But when I quit back to the menu I was once again welcomed by a black screen.
I called Sony support. They had me power off (I forgot about that switch in the back) and connect the composite cables (yuck) then reselect HDMI from the menu. This worked.
I didn't want to get into the blinking issue with him, but when I told them that I worked around it with an HDMI->DVI cable the rep expressed surprise that it didn't break my TV and told me that Sony does not support this method.
The Popular Mechanics article mentioned that some VIP at Westinghouse said technicians would be sent out to repair all of the affected TVs. When I called Westinghouse (prior to contacting Sony), they said that they haven't figured out the logistics of the sending technicians all around the world to upgrade the firmware. They told me to call back in a few weeks.
After purchasing my first HDMI->DVI cable from RadioShak for $50, I picked up all my other HDMI and DVI cables from mycablemart.com for under $10. They work excellently. You'll have a hard time finding a better price.
Marques Johansson
I don't know what "HDMI to DVI adapter to bypass HDCP" means, and quite honestly, I don't care. But my question is, do manufacturers expect consumers to be able to understand all of this mess? What ever happened to plugging a game system into a TV? How many adapters and acronyms are people going to tolerate just to plug the damned thing to the TV? Sounds ridiculous to me. I'm a big fan of plain ol' RCA jacks: Red and white for audio, yellow for video. It's simple, and you can't screw it up. Just because the new sets and devices (like the PS3) are higher definition doesn't mean that plugging the damn things in should be so complicated. Why do I need 6 ways to connect a TV to a signal (coax cable, RCA plugs, S-video, HDMI, DVI, optical, etc.)? It makes me realize that I'm happy with my regular tube TV. It's cheap, it's simple, it looks good, and you don't have to go through 12 pages of directions to plug it in.
I don't respond to AC's.
Is any of the content you're playing through the HD-DVD Player HDCP protected? My understanding is that HDCP use is still optional and the content being played determines if it's enabled (but i may be wrong on that). If the HDCP handshake is what's causing the flickering, and none of your HD-DVD's are forcing the DVD player to use HDCP, it the issue wouldn't show up with the device.
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
The problem is neither Sony, nor Westinghouse. It's Intel.
The problem is due to the Digital Compatibility Prevention (HDCP). The protocol is designed to prevent devices working together unless each manufacturer pays royalties to Digital Content Protection LLC, a subsiduary of Intel. The connection used is HDMI, whose specification mandates the use of Digital Compatibility Prevention, which is a shame, because otherwise it would be a nice connector.
Until there is a digital connection standard which does not require that end-users be treated like criminals for having expensive displays, I will not be buying an HDTV, nor a PS3, and I urge others to do the same.
I'm betting on delivering video over gigabit ethernet winning, because it's cheap, cat 6 cables are dirt cheap, and it doesn't require royalties. I would suggest HD-SDI (co-ax is even cheaper than UTP), but the licence agreement prevents it being used in "consumer" applications.
All an HDMI to DVI adaptor does is take the video signal alone, without the audio channels, and feed it through the DVI side. If the video is HDCP encrypted, it will be encrypted on the DVI side as well as the adaptor is just passing the signal through - with the same results if the problem is the handshake speed as described.
The problem is the HDCP encryption, not the cable itself. The way to think of HDMI is a cable that bundles together DVI video and PCM audio all in one cable (that's not quite correct, but a good way to think about it).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The summary stated that Westinghouse said "Oh, just use an HDMI to DVI cable" - except that would defeat half the point of trying to use HDMI in the first place - the handshake is to let the DRM know that it's ok to send the 1080p signal because there isn't a recording device in between the PS3 and TV set (for pirating media such as movies)...
The other half of using HDMI is for the audio and video to be on one cable. It's actually rather funny, because my brother-in-law still thinks that HDMI is just for putting the a/v on one cable, and that there's no DRM involved...
No comment on whether they did the job right, they might suck at it and this could all be their fault, I'm just saying that as a practical matter they have to support the inputs that devices people will want to hook up will output. Anyone with a PS3 obviously isn't turned off by DRM on principle, and it would be foolish of Westinghouse not to support HDCP. They don't only support HDCP, they support multiple inputs, again for practical reasons. They don't seem to really care about DRM, either, other than they need it to support customers' other electronics. According to the summary:
"[Westinghouse had] one suggestion for PS3 owners with blinking Westinghouse televisions: Purchasing an HDMI to DVI adapter to bypass HDCP."
Um, WHAT?! You mean all you need to get around all this DRM HDCP is a $30 adapter? Not that DRM has ever been something that will do more than stop the most casual of pirates, but even a casual pirate could see $30 to be able to rip all the HD movies they rent from Netflix or whatever makes sense -- just like people bought $30 adapters that stripped Macrovision from VHS. Am I missing something? Tell me I am, because that's just ridiculous for all this bullshit. It'd be like an Express line at airport security where for a small fee you bypass the scanners.
The enemies of Democracy are
From phantomhitman on AVS Forums thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=7
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translation: The HDMI cable is useless hardware created to make life more difficult for consumers who respect copyrights, decreasing the inherent value of retail media, and increasing the value of pirated goods.
The only blinking problem I have is blinking cluelessly at people who buy PS3s.