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Next-Gen N-Gage Getting Ready to Go

Posted by Zonk on from the another-time-through-the-machine dept.

We've previously discussed the lackluster performance of Nokia's N-Gage handheld system. Just the same, despite a market seemingly sewn up by the DS and PSP the company is getting ready for another go. Pocketgamer reports that Nokia had a group of game development houses down to Santa Monica, to check things out and decide for themselves whether they wanted to make a game for the new platform. Another two-day event is slated for Madrid next week, and you'd expect there to be some discussion of the platform during GDC in March as well. No word on a release date from the article, but these certainly point to signs of Nokia's product having at least some chance coming out of the gate.

53 comments

  1. Just Throw a Couple of Buttons... by dctoastman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    On a significantly powerful phone.
    Hell, do a flip up design like this (http://www.nokiausa.com/phones/9300/0,7747,,00.ht ml) but put buttons instead of a qwerty keyboard.
    Slap an ARM in there and your done.

    --
    My twitter
    1. Re:Just Throw a Couple of Buttons... by vertinox · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think the flip phone design would be best. I was thinking like the DS only smaller.

      The only way the nGage would ever succeed is if they:

      1. Alow and foster homebrew (aka Mame games).
      2. Have a touch screen. (Dual screen in your suggested flip design would be nice)
      3. Have the ability to read SD flash cards for memory (same ones you can put in your cameras)
      4. Have a USB port (well this one isn't 100% needed if they comply with #3)
      5. Make game development really easy (see 1)
      6. No tie in with any Cell phone provider.

      But seeing no company has the balls for #1 the device is doomed to failure...

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    2. Re:Just Throw a Couple of Buttons... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, that isn't the way for the nGage to succeed, that's the formula for the most awesome phone ever. As you say, no company has the balls to do it. Hell I'd buy one, and I hate cellphones.

    3. Re:Just Throw a Couple of Buttons... by Goaway · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1. Alow and foster homebrew (aka Mame games).

      Nokia phones, and most likely most others, have done exactly that for like a decade now. Maybe your provider removes the functionality, but that's another problem entirely.

      Here's your MAME for N-Gage: http://www.harmonicode.com/EEMame/

    4. Re:Just Throw a Couple of Buttons... by vga_init · · Score: 1

      The only way the nGage would ever succeed is if they:

      1. Alow and foster homebrew (aka Mame games).
      2. Have a touch screen. (Dual screen in your suggested flip design would be nice)
      3. Have the ability to read SD flash cards for memory (same ones you can put in your cameras)
      4. Have a USB port (well this one isn't 100% needed if they comply with #3)
      5. Make game development really easy (see 1)
      6. No tie in with any Cell phone provider.

      I think there must be more to it than that. Gamepark Holdings did 5 out of those 6 things with the GP2X, which is modestly popular but not a big hit in the general market.

    5. Re:Just Throw a Couple of Buttons... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why does it need 1 and 2 to be successful? The Gameboy Advanced SP doesn't have those and it's sold a boatload (still selling last I checked).

      Homebrew is nice, but doesn't appear to have much of an affect on actual sales, while a touch screen has only ever been successful on a gaming device in an single case and plenty have succeeded without it. I'm not saying these would hurt it, but they're far from necessary.

      Is this really a list of what they need or is it your wish list for the next gen DS? The truth is that all they really need are some great games, a decent price, controls that don't fight you and a screen that won't annoy you.

    6. Re:Just Throw a Couple of Buttons... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      That's just a list of things you want. And that doesn't necessarily correlate with success, or a good phone/game device.


      I honestly can't see why this is modded up.

    7. Re:Just Throw a Couple of Buttons... by Kris_J · · Score: 1

      The original N-Gage covered 1, 3(well, MMC), 4 and 6. I can't speak for 5, but basically being a Series 60 meant there was plenty of stuff out there for it.

    8. Re:Just Throw a Couple of Buttons... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think there must be more to it than that. Gamepark Holdings did 5 out of those 6 things with the GP2X, which is modestly popular but not a big hit in the general market.
      They did miss some things that the nGage has. Wireless connectivity is a big one. A big name like Nokia is another.
    9. Re:Just Throw a Couple of Buttons... by grimJester · · Score: 1

      When you said 'flip-up' I thought you were talking about the E70. A hybrid of that and the N800 should be a decent shape for a gaming phone.

  2. Why? by Mr.+Hankey · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not to sound too negative, but why? There are already handhelds on the market (one from Sony and two from Nintendo, even the GBA still sells) that are more than capable of fending off an uninspired phone/console combo. People who play games probably want to do so on a dedicated gaming device, to avoid killing their phone's battery life. A built-in game or two couldn't hurt, and there are already a number of games you can download based on Java. It almost seems like they want to lose money with these devices.

    I guess on the plus side it couldn't suck as badly as the original N-Gage, they must have learned something from the horrible control layout and weak graphics capability. Good luck to them, and let's hope for a solid implementation.

    --
    GPL: Free as in will
    1. Re:Why? by Ant+P. · · Score: 1

      And if an uninspired MP3 player/console combo is failing in the games market even with the main focus on games and millions in advertising, this has no chance.

    2. Re:Why? by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "There are already handhelds on the market (one from Sony and two from Nintendo, even the GBA still sells) that are more than capable of fending off an uninspired phone/console combo. People who play games probably want to do so on a dedicated gaming device, to avoid killing their phone's battery life."

      This point of view comes up whenever there's a topic about a new gadget on a phone. The answer is very simple. I have a DS, PSP, GBA, and a digital camera. Most of the time, I ONLY have my phone on me. When I'm at work, or shopping, or eating out, I don't carry all those other things with me. Sometimes, though, I find myself in a position where I could really use one of those devices but they're not on me. Just the other day I was at Best Buy and I decided I was on the market for a new digital camera. So, I went around, saw what they had, and I used my phone to take pictures of all the cameras at the store that interested me. I'm going to go through the images, pull out the camera models, and do a comparison review. The camera in the phone was more than sufficient for that. I wouldn't use it for the tourism photos I like taking, but for informational purposes, it was great. Last week the network was out and it totally killed my ability to do any real work. So I played Indiana Jones on my phone. (SCUMM is cool.) I'd rather have played Liberty City Stories, but I don't often have my PSP at work. (not that I'd want to be seen playing it anyway.) I've got plenty more examples, but I hope the idea's becoming clear. The gadgets I've had on all my phones have become useful in some form or another. Heck, I even use it as a back-up alarm clock.

      Yes, the battery issue one is a significant one. But to be honest, I just let it charge while I'm asleep. As long as I'm getting my use out of it, it really isn't that huge of inconvenience. If my phone were just a phone, it wouldn't be as useful.

      "I guess on the plus side it couldn't suck as badly as the original N-Gage, they must have learned something from the horrible control layout and weak graphics capability. Good luck to them, and let's hope for a solid implementation."

      Despite what I said, I do agree with your assessment of the new N-Gage. Though it's great to have additional features in a phone, it's hard to run out and buy a game-specific phone. I appreciate what Nokia's doing, but honestly, I'd be far more interested in a GBA being built into a phone. I have zero confidence in an interesting number of games built specifically for the phone being developed. I think an MP3 phone would be great, but a game phone? Eh... Maybe I'm a fuddy duddy.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    3. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too bad you weren't modded up. That's one of the most insightful things I've read on the subject. I heard a photojournalist, on the radio the other day commenting on camera phones. He said, and I quote, "the best camera for the job is the one you have with you."

  3. New comers by lanceleader · · Score: 2, Insightful

    New comers often have a difficult time. Especially in the gaming world. One of the reasons that the N-Gage was a flop is that Nintendo has an iron grip on the hand-held gaming market.

    1. Re:New comers by WiiVault · · Score: 1

      While that can be true. I think in the case of the N-Gage the failure falls clearly on Nokia. The nonremovable carts (without doing backflips), the massive size, poor controls, and oddly oriented screen doomed the device from its inception. Even if the never models are better its hard to escape such a massive WHOOPS!

    2. Re:New comers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it failed because it was rubbish.

    3. Re:New comers by Acy+James+Stapp · · Score: 2

      The reason the N-Gage was a flop was because it was woefully underpowered. Nokia was pushing developers to make 3D games on a machine with no 3D hardware and not even a hardware divider.

      --
      -- Too lazy to get a lower UID.
    4. Re:New comers by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2

      That was very dumb. The Nokia fanboy suck-up explaination I've heard for having to remove the battery to get to the game was to keep the machine from being on while running the game. That was an incredibly dumb idea. Anyone that's seen an original game boy would know that its power switch has a tab lock that prevents the game from being removed. If Nokia can't learn lessons from existing systems then they just stepped into the wrong market.

    5. Re:New comers by tepples · · Score: 1

      The Nokia fanboy suck-up explaination I've heard for having to remove the battery to get to the game was to keep the machine from being on while running the game. That was an incredibly dumb idea. Anyone that's seen an original game boy would know that its power switch has a tab lock that prevents the game from being removed. If Nokia can't learn lessons from existing systems then they just stepped into the wrong market.

      You're right, but I'll clarify: SD cards and DS cards are a block device. This makes it more like a disk than like a traditional Game Boy Game Pak. Therefore, N-Gage could have handled surprise removal of the SD card the same way that the Nintendo DS and PlayStation 2 slimline handle surprise removal of the medium.

    6. Re:New comers by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      There were many reasons, one being, that the original ngage had a lousy form factor, the cartridge slot was basically behind the battery, it was not even the 3d games. It was a lousy phone due to being too bulky, it was a lousy handheld game system due to the difficulty of being able to get new games into the machine. The second ngage fixed all of that, but at that time the reputation already was ruined.

  4. Pointless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As long as a "console" (and I use that term loosely) is tied to a mobile service, it will never take off.

    If they uncoupled the device from a phone, it MIGHT stand a chance. Being coupled with a phone means that you have to play by service providers rules.

  5. Nokia's Thought .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nokia's thought was that they can't do any worse than Sony did with the PS3 ...

  6. My previous comment is oddly relevant by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 1

    "Actually, the stuff in the iPhone was well-documented in radio waves, software, and sound encoding long before Apple. While credit should be delivered for implementing this scheme in a world of already-entrenched smartphones, it falls into the category of age-old telephony. This same scheme is used in the N-Gage -- a product at least 3 or 4 years old.

    In a nutshell: cramming a bunch of functions onto one device."

    Make sure to read the context of it. :-P

    --
    Apology to Ubuntu forum.
  7. Obligatory Question by jasonwea · · Score: 2, Funny

    But will it side talk?

  8. Awesome! by Sunburnt · · Score: 5, Funny

    I wonder which ethnicity's cuisine they'll tap for design inspiration this time?

    --
    Tags != Comments, and -1 (Troll) != -1 (I Would Respond Angrily To This Poster So They Must Be Trolling)
  9. Give it a touchscreen... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...and make it cheaper than the iPhone.

    The reason cell phone games suck is that the platform these game run on are so inconsistent. Some phones don't even allow you to press more than one cell phone button at a time (ie. no running and jumping)! If the games can't be run on a large number of cell phones, no game developer will ever start giving these games the budgets they deserve.

    I'd like to see a clamshell designed, dual touchscreen cell phone. The clamshell would prevent scratches and just look at what the DS has done with a touchscreen! Throw in plenty of flash memory, build a good game distribution system, and put in some nVidia or ATI accelerated 3D, and I think the phone would take off in sales.

    With a phone that strong, good games will be built. Then other companies will follow suit and hopefully we'll finally have a standardized cell-phone based gaming platform that beats the pants off of J2ME.

  10. Do a deal with Nitendo by curmi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Do a deal with Nintendo to include the GBA chips in your phone, and integrate with that. Why try and compete with Sony and Nintendo, you will always be an after-thought.

    1. Re:Do a deal with Nitendo by mgblst · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Would you have given the same advice to Sony a few years ago? Or Apple when they were thinking about the ipod? Probably.

      Nokia is the biggest makers of Mobile phones in the world, with a huge market share. It is pretty obvious for them to expand in this direction. Some products succeed, and some products fail, for a number of complicated reasons. But nothing new would ever happen if you were in charge. Lets hope that never happens!

  11. WHY by Xolom · · Score: 1

    WHY is nokia trying for another one? did they not learn after last time?

  12. Here we go again... by SoulReaverDan · · Score: 1

    It totally flopped the first time. Honestly, I think that the main reason that the DS is the top is because it is a system that PLAYS GAMES. That's it. You know, I barely EVER see people playing a game on PSP. It's not popular as a portable game system, but a portable computer. Trying to jam a phone, mp3 player, and game machine into one will fail miserably. Its the same reason I'd rather have a phone and an iPod versus a phone that plays music, I'd rather have one machine that does excellent at a single function.

  13. You've got to be kidding by Control+Group · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We can't get a follow up to Advent Rising or another episode of SiN, but we can get an N-Gage 2?

    That's pretty fucked up, right there.

    --

    Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
  14. Sigh, Nokia, so close by Cadallin · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Yet so far. The N-gage is a dead end, drop it. It's never going to succeed, because you're never going to get development on it. Unless you're willing to start up a top tier development studio and market some AAA titles, which would be hugely expensive and would still probably fail. You're not Microsoft, you can't bull your way into a market running billion dollar losses.

    Now, what should you do? The Internet Tablets. These things are hot. However, they need some major tweaks. Stop trying to use your current smartphone batteries for them, their restricting your battery life and your power budget WAY too much. You need something beefier, around a 2200-2500mAH battery. What to do with the extra power? More CPU for Crissakes. The 300MHz arm is not doing what you need. You need either a much faster chip, or one of the hot new dual core ARM SOC. Also a media accelerator. Let's see some 2D acceleration on that bad boy. THIS is your game machine. It'll do everything. Wi-fi internet, SKYPE, media playback. Its potentially an iPhone AND PSP killer. Put some money into bluetooth gamepads and its suddenly a far cooler game machine than the PSP and GP2X combined.

    1. Re:Sigh, Nokia, so close by Cadallin · · Score: 1

      Anybody have any actual thoughts, comments or critiques? That's what I'd like to hear. What I've just described is essentially my dream for what an Internet Tablet ought to be. Those specs are in addition to whats already in the new Nokia 800 BTW. Dual SD card slots is awesome, and it is expected that those can be made SDHC capable via a software upgrade. 8-16+GB of flash storage with a large, 800x480 display? Heck yeah! Nokia just needs to release a device with sufficient CPU/graphics power to make use of all the inherent possibilities (Movies, Games, Emulation of everything up to and including the Playstation WITH storage for tons of music/video/roms/isos)

    2. Re:Sigh, Nokia, so close by jarik2 · · Score: 1

      The N800 internet tablet you are talking about has a TI OMAP 2420 chip according to the Maemo FAQ. Wikipedia OMAP page reveals that the OMAP2 architecture already has a PowerVR 2D/3D graphics accelerator and an IVA video accelerator besides that 330 MHz ARM11. If Nokia is actually going to make another N-gage, I bet it will be based on the same chip.

  15. N-Gage QD Owner: Ambivalent by W.+Justice+Black · · Score: 1

    I've had an N-Gage QD for a bit over a year (got it on clearance).

    Likes:

          * Bluetooth very open (you can up/download a lot more than on most phones).
          * J2ME implementation reasonably useful (I've popped a couple of my J2ME apps on there and they run well).
          * MMC expandability (nice with the ogg player you can get for it).
          * Works really well as a phone (better than my wife's Sidekick II and our roommate's cheapo Moto).

    Dislikes:

          * Control on games is so-so (right thumb gets tired after a while on, say, Rayman).
          * Games themselves are rehashes mostly, were expensive when new.

    I really like the idea of a phone with casual games (waste time when, say, waiting in line or similar). I really hate the idea of a phone with "serious" games. I don't have time for serious gaming on the go (indeed, I have a PSP, but don't carry it everywhere I go as I do my N-Gage). Short version for phone gaming:

          * Popcap-ish games: good idea
          * Mega-huge FPS or RPG: bad idea

    If N-Gage II (or whatever they'll call it) is as open as this generation, and especially if they make it easier to write games for it, I'll probably buy one. Doubly so if it's easy to get small developers onboard. If not, I'll get something else as my next phone.

    --
    "Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana." --Groucho Marx
  16. Irony by Headcase88 · · Score: 1

    the best thing about the first N-Gage is that Nokia PR said something along the lines that you wouldn't want to be caught dead pulling out a GBA in public because it's so uncool.

    I can't make that shit up.

    --
    "When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
  17. Title should have been by airencracken · · Score: 0

    Next-Gen N-Gage Getting Ready to Flop.

    --
    Hell is other people - Jean-Paul Sartre
  18. Which US mobile carrier is homebrew friendly? by tepples · · Score: 1

    1. Alow and foster homebrew (aka Mame games). Apart from Gridlee and Robby Roto, the vast majority of MAME games aren't pure "homebrew", that is, free software or other lawful freeware. LOCKJAW Advance, on the other hand...

    Nokia phones, and most likely most others, have done exactly that for like a decade now. Maybe your provider removes the functionality What provider in my country (USA) doesn't?
    1. Re:Which US mobile carrier is homebrew friendly? by Goaway · · Score: 1

      What provider in my country (USA) doesn't?

      I don't know, I don't live the mobile backwaters. Maybe you could move.

    2. Re:Which US mobile carrier is homebrew friendly? by tepples · · Score: 1

      Maybe you could move.

      If I move, I'd still be in the United States. Or what other country would want me?

    3. Re:Which US mobile carrier is homebrew friendly? by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Any country with less crappy cellphone providers? Try a random European one.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    4. Re:Which US mobile carrier is homebrew friendly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What provider in my country (USA) doesn't?

      I don't know of any providers that have removed the ability to transfer over a data cable, only OTA.

    5. Re:Which US mobile carrier is homebrew friendly? by Goaway · · Score: 1

      From friends who went there, I hear China loves Americans. They probably have better cell phone providers, too.

  19. alternately by bunions · · Score: 1

    just get a good, solid nokia phone and duct-tape it to a DS. Everyone wins.

    --
    there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
  20. GP2X lacked two things: bricks and mortar by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think there must be more to it than that. Gamepark Holdings did 5 out of those 6 things with the GP2X, which is modestly popular but not a big hit in the general market.

    The "more to it" involves at least the following:

    7. Bricks
    8. Mortar
    9. Promotion
    GPH just failed to market the GP2X in the United States. It was difficult to learn of their existence, and anyone who wanted one had to have it individually shipped from overseas.
  21. What was said at *that* boardroom meeting? by Mr.+Samuel · · Score: 1
    I won't be the first here to wonder why they're going at it yet again...you'd think they'd notice that nobody cares (unless it's been financially viable and I am unaware...anybody?)

    But here's the point that hasn't been mentioned yet: are they actually going to call this thing an N-Gage? Because seriously, I don't think that brand name is going to get anybody too excited. The people who know what an N-Gage is would quite likely know that nobody likes them/they r teh suk.

    To the person who suggested the GBA tie-in...not a bad idea, but I wonder if this would be of benefit to Nintendo.

  22. wtf by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not even a few liters of Jack Daniels could persuade me to buy one of these. And Jack is a very persuasive guy.

  23. Great idea by metamatic · · Score: 1

    They should give it a big screen and movie player capabilities, partner with Microsoft, let people "squirt" demo versions of games to each other, and call it the N-Zune. I'm sure it'd destroy the iPhone.

    --
    GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
  24. Next-Gen N-Gage Getting Ready to Go... by MrYotsuya · · Score: 1

    Straight into the bargain bin!

  25. I own an N-Gage... by LKM · · Score: 1

    ...and I think the main (and possibly only relevant) reason for its failure is that it sucks really, really hard. It's overly complicated, the buttons feel like phone buttons instead of like gamepad triggers, the screen size is only suitable for a very specific subset of all game genres, and it's too slow for 3D graphics, yet most games are in 3D.

    There are about five playable games for the N-Gage (High Seize, Pathway to Glory 1 and 2, and... uh... okay, there are three).

  26. All I have to say is... by Officer+Friendly · · Score: 1

    http://myngage.ytmnd.com/

  27. If Nintendo and Sony refuse to publish... by tepples · · Score: 1

    Is this really a list of what they need or is it your wish list for the next gen DS? The truth is that all they really need are some great games

    What if I think the greatest game is a game made by an individual who lacks the clout to negotiate with Nintendo licensed publishers and Sony licensed publishers?