Slashdot Mirror
Scientology Critic Arrested After 6 Years
destinyland writes "Friday police arrested 64-year-old Keith Henson. In 2000 after picketing a Scientology complex, he was arrested as a threat because of a joke Usenet post about "Tom Cruise Missiles." He fled to Canada after being found guilty of "interfering" with a religion, and spent the next 6 years living as a fugitive. Besides being a digital encryption and free speech advocate, he's one of the original Burr-Brown/Texas Instruments researchers and a co-founder of the Space Colony movement."
Here's a vintage /. discussion from 2001 that discusses Hanson's escape to Canada.
When you have nothing left to burn you must set yourself on fire
Up to date information on thecult of Scientology or its offshoot cult The Landmark Forum
Have we in the Western world become so enamored by political correctness that we cannot even take a joke for what it is?
He wasn't sent to jail for the joke. If you look at the original conviction article, he was engaging in a lot of physical stalking behavior. I have to say, if someone was following me around -- physically -- and making "jokes" about violence on the Internet, and was a known hater of my religion, I'd want his ass to be in jail, too.
Just because they're wacky scientologists doesn't mean they open game for stalkers with axes to grind (so to speak).
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
California hate crime law from the DA's office. ... threatening to use force to injure, intimidate, or interfere with another person who is exercising his or her constitutional rights.
Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
s/we are all born atheists/we are all born agnostics/
Fixed it for you
That's wrong. No child wonders about a god or gods unless the parents indoctrinate them into a cult in the first place.
But your first point was right - atheism is a religion
Funny you mention that. See my sig.
Trolling is a art,
I've read about his case, and from that I'd say the 'stalking' material would be his picketing their compound. Complete with big-ass sign.
Going by the standards that it takes to get abortion protestors arrested, there's something fishy about the case.
I don't read AC A human right
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Here's all the info you need on Scientology
They're pretty big of illegally attacking critics too. Check Operation Freakout where they fabricated evidence that "Paulette Cooper was guilty of issuing bomb threats against the Church, Henry Kissinger, Arab nations, and a laundromat. The seized documents were used to prosecute and convict Scientology officials in 1979."
Fabricated bomb threats... Sounds kind of familiar...One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
I know you're posting with tongue firmly in cheek, but there is at least one. I can't remember where I first saw it, but here's their website: The Open Source Order of the Golden Dawn.
What I would like to know is how this discussion violates that law. I don't see anything remotely threatening, just a few people having fun talking about a non-existant 'Agent 99' and their fictitious (and humorous!) exploits.
/.ers have been arrested?
If you can arrested for this, it makes me wonder how many
My blog
If you look at the original Slashdot article from the time of his conviction (linked in one of the comments here), reportedly he was not allowed to use the context of his quotes in his defense. So all the jury saw were a couple of snippets the Scientologists picked out. He probably ruined his case by going on the run, as I can't believe that a higher court would not have overturned the decision on appeal.
If that so-called "mosque" was allegedly responsible for the deaths of several of their members, then yes, I would say you were justified in picketing.
He was picketing because of the death of Lisa McPherson. But you know that and now so do those who choose to read the links.
"religions that are clearly made up. ..."
the same cannot be said of any other religion from Christianity to Taoism to neo-paganism."
Most, if not all, religions are "made up". In some cases, we know when and by whom. Christian Science was made up by Mary Baker Eddy in 1866. Mormonism was made up by Joseph Smith in 1830. Islam was made up by Mohammed around 610. Christianity was more of a group project; most modern doctrine comes from a committee meeting in 325. In 431, there was a another meeting for a feature upgrade, and the Virgin Mary was added.
You do not know or understand the history of Christianity. There were a series of meetings, known as the Ecumenical Councils, that defined what Christianity is, what it believs and professes, and what it considers heretical. The important ones occuring between 325AD and 1123AD and resolved such questions as whether Jesus was entirely Divine, entirely human, human and divine parts seperated, or human and divine parts united.
Allmost all Western Christian denominations, as well as Eastern Orthodox accept the decisions of councils 1-7. Catholics, protestants, all of them. That is the Christian party line. Oriental Orthodox churches only accept 1-3; Assyrian Christianity accepts 1-2; Mormonism, Jehova's Witnesses, Unitarians and a few other fringe groups don't accept any of the council's decisions.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Actually, he's pretty much correct, sad to say.
How many Christian sects -don't- believe in the Nicean Trinity? Think long and hard about that, because I understand that there's only -1-, they're routinely vilified along with the average 'Christian' declaring that they can't possibly be Christian because of it.
So yes, adherence to the Nicean Creed IS, in fact, pretty much used as a 'definition' to determine who is, and is not, a "real" Christian, whether you like it or not.
thats what good lawyers are for. any good lawyer could have brought the context in on direct. something like : so what did you mean when you wrote xxx ?
See United States v. Sutton, 801 F.2d 1346, 1369 (D.C. Cir. 1986) (court has discretion to require counsel seeking admission of evidence under Rule 106 "to point to specific passages of the transcript that ought to have been admitted to avert the distorting effect of the portions already introduced by the government").
The Nicene Council is what you are referring to, and they defined what it is to be a Catholic (which meant "universal" about 1.5 to 2 thousand years ago) and it is based solely on the Old and New Testaments. Even more to the point, it defined the old and new testaments. Today, the Nicene Council's decisions are no longer considered universal, and most Christians do not call themselves "Catholics."
John 3:16 is far more universal than the Nicene Creed, or the concept of the Holy Trinity.
As far as the Romans were concerned, there was no difference between the regular Jews and the followers of Jesus, who were all Jewish. Christianity was also orginally recognized as a sect of Judaism, it wasn't until sometime after the fact that Christians actually started being refered to as Christians.
-Ed
So you see what had happened was....
The pope was QUOTING a bynzantine emperor from back in the day while talking about the need to strengthen relations with muslims.
Flamebait? Apparently the mods have never actually lived in the bible belt.
Unfortunately, the parent poster isn't kidding. These are the same people that scream that because the teachers in a public school aren't allowed to force students to pray that the students aren't allowed to pray (which isn't true. They can pray all they like. They just can't be forced to do it) and go "la la la I can't hear you" when they are told what I just put in parentheses.
They're also the same people that scream that, if everyone in the community isn't Christain, that it's just plain wrong and unholy. They act like the beliefs that someone else holds affects *them* on a personal level and that nobody should be able to believe differently than they do.
Sounds crazy, I know, but there are people out there like that. For some reason, a lot of them have a persecution complex because they aren't allowed to force their beliefs on everyone else. Trust me on that one - as someone who is "not a member of the fold" (I'm Taoist), I've often been on the receiving end of tirades that I am what is wrong with the world.
Some portions of them may be in the minority insofar that they think others should be exactly like them, but it's a really *really* vocal minority.
Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
One of scientology's primary recruiting tricks involves
the use of a fairly old hyponosis trick called regression.
(They call it 'auditing'). See Franz Anton Mesmer
People with very serious emotional issues will often get enough relief
to be convinced that scientology is some kind of miracle and
out comes the checkbook.
Many religions, emotional 'technologies', etc, use these tricks
and very often claim they are new or groundbreaking. Nah. Same
shit different bag.
Anyone can learn to do this themselves and should avoid those who
wrap it in other packages (and there are many out there).
I read in TFM that he was tried and convicted based on his picketing activities outside a Scientology film studio. Since then, I have not been able to get to TFM.
You can read about it here.
So he was not arrested for that usenet discussion. He has been sued in civil court
for publishing Scientology documents. He defended himself and lost, to the tune
of $75,000. He then declared bankruptcy. At that time, he started repeatedly picketing
a Scientology film studio.
When he was convicted and sentenced to six months in jail (for the picketing),
he chose to flee to Canada because he believed that Scientologists would have him
killed in prison.
He applied for political asylum in Canada. After three years, Canada asked him
to appear in person to hear what the decision was. Fearing deportation, he packed up
and left Canada the night before.
So no, usenet posting, in this case, did not get him arrested.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." -- Albert Einstein
Two women DIE in a Scientology facility and it's not even INVESTIGATED, while the man who is trying to get prosecutors to look at the case winds up convicted.
Odd? No, it's Scientology's usual MO. If you don't think so you've NEVER done any real research on the group.
Man, If you think that the Roman Catolic Church does not influence goverments, is because you don't live in Latin America. Here in Chile they influence the goverment as much as they can (they influence the conservative sectors), For example, in Chile even the therapeutic abortion (when the mother's integrity is at risk) is illegal, and we owe it to the influence of the catolic church in some political forces. They have also tried (but failed) to impede emergency contraceptives and divorce [sorry about my english]
He fled to Canada after being found guilty of "interfering" with a religion...
Should read:
He fled to Canada after being found guilty of interfering with a "religion"...
whats sad is that the 'eternal torment of hell' doctrine is man made, and not of the bible. yet another evidence of satan at work, continually substituting his personality for that of the the Lords.
if you actually study the word, its clear that 'hell' is the grave. death. the lack of life. its translated (in the OT) from Sheol (which literally means 'the grave'). it is translated 30 times as 'hell' and 31 times as 'the grave', because thats what it is. those that turn their backs on the giver of life will recieve death eternal, never to live again.
being dead is quite a ways away from being tortured for eternity.
psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
isnt it funny? the athiests have been telling the "christians" this all along.
the 'immortal soul' doctrine is straight from satan himself. he wants you to believe when you die, you go someplace else. that makes it easy for him to masquerade as a deceased love one to promise you that you can continue doing evil and still have a joyous afterlife. (he posed as a snake in the garden, as the king of tyre in Ezekiel 28, and as an angel of light while temping Christ in the wilderness, and he still, to this day, assumes different forms (hebrews 13:2)
if you look at 1 corinthians 15:51-52, its clear that at the last day, the dead (some of them, at least-Thessalonians 4:16) will be resurrected-- but wait-- if the dead are already in heaven or hell, why do they climb back INTO their graves to be resurrected at the last day?
those who go around preaching hell fire are unwittingly satans tools in deception, they have been deceived, and are deceiving others to fall into a trap with them. destroyed for their lack of knowledge. let him who seeks eternal life seek it to the fullest of his heart, and the way will be shown to him.
next time someone comes preaching hellfire to your door, get them to read 1 john 2:3,4.
until they realize the blatant fact in those two verses, they are those spoken of by the Lord in Matthew 7:1-5
As others have stated, there's numerous questions about what just went on, the judge squashing the defense, for example, not allowing the rest of the transcript of the conversation involving the missile to be presented.
Imagine an organization that has no problems lying to authorities, as a group, rehearsing their stories, etc...
I use abortion protestors as an example because they're frequently the worst behaved protestors out there and have been known to descend into violence.
In order to match them he'd have to do more than some yelling and handing out pamphlets. Even if he did follow some members home, it's still not to the level that abortion protestors will go to. Heck include PETA in that list of out of control protestors that don't get anything near this level of punishment. They've been known to set up in front of people's houses.
I don't read AC A human right
Never has been, never will be.
I still have the original print of the book, where L. Ron Hubbard himself clearly states that he did not consider it to be a religion, nor did he intend to allow it to become a religion. Gee, did he actually die of normal causes? Or was there some other more sinister event?
Who is general failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
Completely unrelated, but anyway...In a previous life, the "Friday Police" was a term applied to part time officers who were called in for carnivals, traffic, , and the like. Most could not carry firearms for lack of proper training and certification.
As such, accepting Jesus as your personal savior is not enough for the Christian party line. You have to believe that he is three in one, that he is both fully human and fully divine, or else you're a heretic, and you're going to hell.
Or you could be a Protestant, in which case everything you said there is wrong.
Please refrain from discussing something when you have no fucking idea what you're talking about, you'll avoid saying something stupid and wrong like you did there.
Why are so many posts with factual errors modded up?
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
So, what's his defense for stalking?
Gee, when did you stop beating your wife?
Keith wasn't stalking anyone. He was picketing outside the Scientology compound in Hemet, California. The clams pulled out all the stops to shut him up, including lying in court. Keith wasn't allowed to even mention that the clams are trained in how to lie convincingly. Read and learn.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
What Keith did first was mock Scientology by showing copies of their hidden religious texts. The Church of Scientology then bankrupted him by suing him for copyright infringement. Keith then took to picketing CoS buildings, and I believe this picketing is what got him arrested for 'interfering with a religion'. Usenet posts were used as 'evidence' that he planned violence against the church.
The Church of Scientology does have a long history of brutal lawsuits against individuals defaming it, and repeatedly uses copyright law to persecute people who make their religious texts publicly available. I find this baffling- any other religious group wants as many people as possible reading their books. You probably know more about your religion than I do, but I encourage you to find out more about your Church through (non-offical) sources. Look up some of the controversy about Scientology on Wikipedia.
Offhand the only major religion that doesn't condemn anyone or anything is Buddism.
Actually, militant Zen Buddhism was a unifying force in WWII Japan. Much like promises of eternal reward after death helps assuage fears for believers in Judeo-Christian teachings, the beliefs in impermanence and reincarnation assuage the fears of death for Buddhists. Soto Zen has also been criticized for racial discrimination [PDF] in the treatment of the former Japanese lower caste members. You can read a long list of essays about Buddhism going wrong (particularly Japanese Buddhism) here.
Then, of course, there was the White Lotus Revolution which overthrew the Mongol Yuan dynasty and established the Ming dynasty. That was basically a Buddhist nationalist secret society. The ethnic struggles in Sri Lanka are between the Buddhist Sinhalese and the Hindu Tamils, so Buddhists aren't all innocent either.
The problem is not the religion -- it's the people that practice it.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Years ago, the Christian Right had to go through pretty extreme lengths to enforce their will (for example, in the 1920s the prohibition of alchohol needed to explicity constitutional amendment to be enacted), since the role of the federal government was so limited.
That was the Christian Left -- the same radical religious movement that gave birth to unions, trust-busting, and women's lib in America. It was the Secular Right that fought against it mostly. The Temperance movement was very closely tied into the women's rights movement (as drunkenness was blamed for domestic abuse). It's no coincidence that the 18th & 19th Amendments were passed so closely together. It was a major part of the Progressive movement.
It was mostly secular conservatives that opposed Prohibition in its early days. Progressivism and its related policies were very strongly tied to religious fundamentalism back in the day. The tie between fundamentalism and right-wing politics is a function of the latter half of the 21st century and fear of communism.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Please mod this up to make it more visible (or better yet, can it be edited into the main article, Hemos? Thanks)
Simpletoneity, n. -- The phenomenon of many people all doing the same stupid thing at the same time.
Re the "tax-free status." Do a little home work on HOW Scientology got its tax exempt status. (This article doesn't mention if the then President and John Travolta spent time together.)
You are in for a surprise.
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/irs/jeff-irs.htm
And while you're at it, acquaint yourself with Lisa McPherson.
No, the punch line was "straight shooter", which means that he is truthful. That has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
Actually, Fishkill is the town a few minutes down the road from where I live. The name is actually dutch and means "Fish Creek". In this area we also have Wallkill and Catskill (most people have heard of this one). A lot of us laughed when they pulled that crap about the name. I can assure you the town and its co-town East Fishkill (where IBM makes its chips such as the Cell or the old Apple power PCs) have not changed.
can't sleep slashdot will eat me