Gorbachev Asks Gates to Intervene in Piracy Case

An anonymous reader writes to tell us that former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev has asked Bill Gates to intervene in a software piracy case against the headmaster of a middle school. If convicted, Alexander Ponosov could face detention in a Siberian prison camp for his crime.

Comments

do the crime, do the time?

[yagu]

I don't know, did this schoolmaster knowingly "pirate" his software? It's not clear to me from the article. Gorbachev argues the nuance he didn't know he was committing a crime. That to me sounds like splitting semantic hairs.

That said, I believe if someone knowing commits an infraction, they should be able to sustain the punishment. But, I don't always agree with the punishment in light of the crime. The world of software piracy is especially troubling to me.

It seems too much onus is put on the pirate and little on the accuser to carry the final outcome. I know if laws were enforced strictly I would have done some time -- I was once unpleasantly surprised to fire up Excel at a corporate computer to find my name and my license info plastered all over the screen... Someone had pirated my legitimate copy, but how to prove my innocence?

I've heard if you want to change a bad law, enforce it strictly. Maybe a few cases like this could bring more light to the heavy-handed tactics against the little guys (don't know if this one of those cases, but it certainly has the signature).

Unfortunately, I see the outcome of this as a huge PR win for Microsoft, and I think Gates may actually take the bait. This adds to his recent buildup of reputation as world benefactor. If he has Microsoft withdraw the complaint (or offers up some benevolent deal), Microsoft gets a PR coup. And, that would be a shame.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[b0s0z0ku]

Ignorance is not an excuse; you can be done for receiving stolen goods in the UK and simply claiming you did not know they were stolen is not a valid defence.

Depends what crime. A lot of felonies in the US have language that states "... with malice aforthought ...".

-b.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Anonymous Coward]

>Gorbachev argues the nuance he didn't know he was committing a crime. That to me sounds like splitting semantic hairs.

Not really. The courts require Mens Rea before they can convict. No Mens Rea, no culpability, no crime. This is a basic requirement and can't be avoided (unless Russian corts are very, very weird). A bit on the scale of "No body, no crime".

Ignorance of the law actually is a defence when it can be proven the defedant truly could not have known something was either wrong or a crime. It isn't a defence for things that are obviously wrong with or without law, like murder, but for something like taxes, which, if unpaid because someone had no knowledge it was required, it can be. An extremely difficult defence, though. Which is why having a well known person who was leader of the country, like Gorby, on your side is important.

(I'm assuming this isn't a tort case since jail time is involved.)

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[tchuladdiass]

In some states in the US, there is a distinction between "ignorance of the law" and "ignorance of the facts". In your receiving stolen goods example, if a person had no reason to believe that the goods were stolen then there is no charge (althought the goods would still be forfieted). For example if you bought a plasma tv at Walmart that ended up in their supply chain via a crooked vendor then you wouldn't be charged with any felony. However, buying the same plasma tv out of the back of someones van for $50.00 could land you in hot water because a reasonable person should conclude that the merchandise was stolen property (the low price, the circumstances of purchase, etc).

So, if the same principle were to be applied, then this schoolmaster shouldn't have been charged since he aquired the equipment from a seemingly legitimate source. Of course, now we've blended UK, US, and Russian law all in one discussion.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[antiMStroll]

"I don't know, did this schoolmaster knowingly "pirate" his software? It's not clear to me from the article. Gorbachev argues the nuance he didn't know he was committing a crime. That to me sounds like splitting semantic hairs."

How is this different than hard time for stealing a loaf a bread? We've finally allowed a belief in corporate BS-wrapped self-interest almost religious in magnitude to push back human rights to Hugo's time. Siberian prison for using software? What have we become? Incidentally, my understnding is the Soviet system for IP was very much different than the West's. All of it was State owned. Implying that a back water school teacher was in some way acting in a 'nefarious' manner and knew the consequences of contravening fast changing WIPO statutes is almost beneath contempt.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[Anonymous Coward]

In Russia, you can buy pressed CDs and DVDs of various Microsoft products (some are actually MSDN pressed CDs) for a couple dollars at any large train/metro station. I don't see how pointing out a single person for the "crime" has any effect on general state of piracy there.

Re:do the crime, do the time?

[evilgeekgirl999]

I'm a psychotherapist that runs an Adolescent Day Treatment program at a Special Education school for kids that have a difficult time functioning in a regular school setting due to traumas such as severe child abuse that have left them emotionally impaired. I am not school staff, I am assigned there through our county's Mental Health. In this program, all the staff including the other mental health support person and 3 school staff put our personal monies into the program on a weekly basis just to get the kids basic necessities for school. These necessities include materials for academics, athletic activities, art-based activities, prosocial activities, and sometimes even food for kids with special dietary needs because the school cafeteria simply disregards the kid needs or believes that sugar filled cereals and orange juice should be fine for a diabetic kid's breakfast. This is five people from both school and mental health based program putting in personal funds, and the kids still have school books from 2-3 decades ago, and sometimes run out of things like lined paper.

I am very grateful that I am not a teacher because I can't imagine using my personal funds when on a teacher's salary. I am still resentful that I feel the need to put so much personal funding from my own wallet in order to help have the kids a decent school setting, and I make significantly more than a teacher. I truly think that without teachers putting in their personal funds, the school system in this state (California, I can't speak for other states) would completely fall apart. Not that they would have far to go. I am sure that it is much more difficult in somewhere like Russia to provide a decent learning environment for students. I think it is a sad day when Russian dictators like Vladimir Putin demonstrate more generosity than the head of an American corporation. Sad, unfortunately I guess not very surprising.

Re:Rediculous solution

[Nicholas Evans]

Last time I checked, software piracy is a copyright issue, not an issue of material theft. Microsoft is not the 'item manufacturer' in this case; they're the copyright holder. As such, Bill Gates is very relevant to this matter.

Important nuance: small village school

[zpodcaster]

Microsoft's asking for RUR 266000, i.e. USD 8886 according to this. http://lenta.ru/story/ponosoff/. An important nuance: it's a small village school, which would probably not have a budget for this. But I think in any case, they should use Linux.

More the system than the individual

[edwardpickman]

This is more about "Russia" using pirated software than the teacher. The teacher is being made the scapegoat for the system. What he's really asking for is Microsoft to look the other way when Russia uses their unlicensed software to benefit the country. It's a sticky question and should be handled more from a marketing standpoint. The problem is just how big a market is Russia for legitimate copies of Microsoft software? If nearly all is pirated and the Russian government is using classrooms to promote it's use then it's benefitting Russia but not Microsoft should Microsoft stand by and let it happen? The teacher shouldn't be prosecuted no matter what because it's fairly obvious officials were aware he was using and I'm sure many are doing the same. The point ultimately is if Russia can't aford or is unwilling to pay for the software should they still have the rights to use it? Does it create an unfair advantage when they have workers learning to use software on pirate copies that will in turn work for a fraction of the cost of US and Europeon programmers? These type of practices put the west at a massive disadvantage. The company I work with wants to outsource our current joint venture to foreign programmers to save money. I'm against it but I got overruled. I'd rather see people paid properly for their work where ever they are but more and more companies will be taking advantage of cheap foreign programmers. Eventually to compete most will have no choice.

bunch of assholes

[DaMattster]

Microsoft is nothing but one big bunch of assholes. How much money is enough? Go after the big fish. I reported a website selling downloads of Microsoft software and Microsoft did absolutely nothing. The website is still up! Instead, they want to fry a school teacher. What next, a minister or priest?

10K of Kubuntu doesn't scratch the surface

[postbigbang]

Try 10M of Kubuntu.

This presumes of course that there is enough hardware. There is not.

The old koan that states that you can't satisfy hunger by looking at a picture of a fish applies here.

This is actually part of the same campaign that's trying to make Gates, his foundations (and those cute pictures of Patty Stonecipher) all make us think nice things in the light of the disaster of Zune, Vista, and many other things Microsoft.

Mod me down as flamebait, but I'm merely the oxygen, not the spark. Microsoft is the fuel. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Re:Gates just Declined

[DogDude]

I wonder if Mr. Gates gets a stiffy by a brutal demonstration of his powers, by crushing the life of a simple teacher.

Did you read the article you posted? It's a CRIMINAL case, being brought by local law enforcement, not Bill Gates, you dolt. Besides, if MS did call up the local prosecutor to ask them to back down, then MS would be *flooded* with requests for amnesty from people all over the planet. I think that if anybody, Gorbachev is going a bit soft in the head. It was a ridiculous request.

Putin Running for President of PirateBay

[akpoff]

"It's ridiculous to just arrest a chap for using computers," he said.

Re:Gates just Declined

[spiritraveller]

Were he to call up the prosecutor and ask them not to go forward, it would be a clear statement that Russia is a banana republic. A rich guy can just make them fall over and do what he wants? Well, probably it's true, and Gorbachev obviously sees it that way.

But the article you linked mentions that Putin has already said that prosecuting this guy is ridiculous. If Putin can use some pressure to stop the prosecution, it makes him look good. If you make Putin look good, the doors open even wider for you in Russia.

Gates and MS are not dummies. This will end up working out quite well for them.

Re:Don't petition Microsoft

[b0s0z0ku]

It would make more sense to petition the Russian Parole Board if they still have it.

Or just collect to bribe the warden US$50k to allow the inmate to 'disappear'?

-b.

Re:Inspired students

[numbski]

You don't understand how much this annoys me. I wouldn't let the BSA in my front door, let alone comply with any "audit". They aren't a government agency, nor a legal authority. They aren't allowed on my property, under any situation, and I've made all of my staff aware of that fact. The answer to BSA, or "Business Software Alliance" is "Please leave our property or we will call the police. This facility runs Linux and Open Source Software." If they don't leave, call the police and have them removed.

End of discussion.

Prison isn't the place for such people

[gilesjuk]

This is a prime example of big business making out the damage that small scale piracy causes is as serious as murder, drug dealing and physical theft.

Why are people sent to prison for copyright infringement? sure, it can cause lost sales, but the court case should be asked to prove if the accused would have purchased the product otherwise.

When the copyright infringement is on a mass scale, ie. pirate copies duplicated in the thousands and sold, then yes these people have caused damage and should be punished.

Re:In Soviet Russia...

[shutdown -p now]

Oh, a lot of people know they use pirated software. They just don't give a fuck. Mainly because legit copy of Windows costs more than many people's salary is (excepting Moscow - things are a bit different there). They can get an old PC for 1.5x that price, and a lot have to save for that for quite some time; why do you think they should be bothered to save a hundred bucks more to buy WinXP, especially if they can just as well go and buy it for $3?

As for schools, they are so underfunded it's no surprise that most of them run all pirated software. Same goes for universities. The one I studied in, we used WinNT4, Office97, MSVC6 and Delphi 3 on all the ~100 PCs we had - all pirated, of course.

Re:Prison Camp

[Anonymous Coward]

This brings up a fascinating conundrum for Bill Gates. Does he violate his deep seated opposition to piracy (it is after all what made him rich) and support the measure or does he violate his newly purchased reputation as a "great humanitarian" and oppose it?