Slashdot Mirror


Court Rules GPS Tracking Legal For Law Officers

Via Engadget (which does a good job of explaining the case), an anonymous reader passed us a link to a GPS Tracking Systems Blog post. The site, which reports regularly on GPS-related news, has word that on-the-sly GPS tracking is legal for officers of the law. A 7th circuit court of appeals ok'd the use of a GPS device in apprehending a criminal. Though the defendant's lawyers argued on fourth amendment grounds, the judge found GPS tracking did not warrant an 'unlawful search and seizure'. The judge did warn against 'wholesale surveillance' of the population, though, so ... that's some comfort.

31 of 293 comments (clear)

  1. It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by KingSkippus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The summary left out the most important tidbit of information in this case: The police did not have a warrant for their actions.

    If the police have reasonable cause to suspect that someone is up to no good and they go through due process to get a warrant, I have no problem with them using GPS as a tool in their arsenal of crime-fighting weapons.

    However, I have a major issue with the police, with no reason to think I might be doing something wrong and no warrant to back it up, putting a GPS receiver on my car just in case I do do something wrong.

    The judge did warn against 'wholesale surveillance' of the population, though.

    The judge in this case was a complete and total idiot. He can warn all he wants to, but he just set a legal precedent that says they can if they want to. There is now absolutely nothing stopping the police from GPS-bugging anyone at any time for any reason, or even with a complete lack of a reason. Who here thinks that even though the police can GPS-bug people without a warrant that they simply will choose not to do so because the right thing to do, in the spirit of the Constitution, is to get a warrant first?

    Yeah, I don't either. If you give the government that kind of power, it has shown throughout history—including many incidents in recent U.S. history—that it will not only use it, but push it even further.

    If I recall correctly, the rationale behind the original decision was that police can follow people the old-fashioned way—a stakeout—without a warrant or probable cause, and that GPS-bugging them is legally no different, because people should have no reasonable expectation of privacy while driving on public roads.

    Well, I'm sorry, I vehemently disagree. The resources required to conduct a stakeout demand that the police don't just do it all willy-nilly for no reason, and anyone who expects to be electronically tracked when there is no reason or cause to do so is an idiot. I know it, you know it, the police know it, this judge knows it, but with the swing of a gavel, he just legalized the excruciatingly stupid idea that you don't have any privacy on the roads. Some people think that talking about Big Brother watching us is an exaggeration, but when I read about stuff like this, it's really hard to see much of a difference.

    If there's any justice to be had from this, this idiot judge's decision will be overturned at some point.

    1. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 5, Insightful
      There is now absolutely nothing stopping the police from GPS-bugging anyone at any time for any reason, or even with a complete lack of a reason. Who here thinks that even though the police can GPS-bug people without a warrant that they simply will choose not to do so because the right thing to do, in the spirit of the Constitution, is to get a warrant first?

      What's worse, would EZ-Pass or On*Star (I have neither system - I'd rather bleed to death at the side of the road after an accident than lose my privacy 100% of the time) data obtained without a warrant now be admissible in court? I suspect that the cops might not even have to leave the comfort of their offices to attach the GPS bug if they play the game right.

      -b.

    2. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Insightful
      They will probably just put something on the bottom of your car and GPS track you to where you're chop shop is.

      Well, if they have probable cause to believe that crimes are being committed (existence of a chop shop parting out stolen cars), they can tell it to a judge and prosecutor and the judge will no doubt be happy to give a warrant authorizing tracking of the car.

      -b.

    3. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by krotkruton · · Score: 4, Informative

      What's even worse than that, is that a lot of cars come with a black box or other GPS device. If you already have OnStar or other GPS systems installed, then it's pretty clear that you can be tracked. However, many cars are coming with pre-installed GPS tracking in the form of theft protection. I can't find a good link at the moment, but I remember seeing a video (for some reason I think it was on a Penn and Teller: Bullshit! episode) where a guy with a laptop tracked an employee's car as he went to do some errands. I can see how you would want to track your car if it gets stolen, but that really isn't what we are talking about here. The problem is that you can be tracked without your knowledge or consent if your car has such a black box. I'm not sure how that should play out in the legal world if tracking is done without a warrant, and this case didn't seem to take that into consideration.

    4. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by PieSquared · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, because if they get a warrant and they're wrong... there is a record of it. Someone can point and say "90% of the people you bug aren't even accused of crimes!" With no warrant, it doesn't come out if they don't want it to.

      Obviously I agree that they should be required to get a warrant, so that they can be held accountable for watching people for the hell of it.

      --
      Does a line appended to your comment give your post meaning in and of itself, or only in relation to those without?
    5. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by Namlak · · Score: 4, Funny

      What's worse, would EZ-Pass or On*Star (I have neither system - I'd rather bleed to death at the side of the road after an accident than lose my privacy 100% of the time)

      Apparently, you are not aware that On*Star can give restaurant recommendations in times of dire emergency or you'd have never made your comment.

    6. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Funny
      Apparently, you are not aware that On*Star can give restaurant recommendations in times of dire emergency or you'd have never made your comment.

      Has such a case occurred? (Restaurant recommendation instead of calling an ambulance.) Anyway, I suppose it all makes sense. You're bleeding to death. Therefore you have anemia. Nothing a good, bloody steak can't fix.

      -b.

    7. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by HomelessInLaJolla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > I can very much see the police's side of this

      That is a beautiful statement of the common public misconception (which is often well groomed by government whining).

      This isn't about seeing the police side of this. This is about the legitimate derivation of power within a Constitutional Republic. History is filled with dire examples of why it is best for the citizenry to disallow authority for the sake of political or legal ease. At the same time there are no lighthouse examples of why a well controlled government would be a Bad Thing.

      --
      the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
    8. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by JesseL · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Why the hell would you need a warrant for tracking a criminal with GPS?


      You need to back up and reexamine your premise there. In the US nobody is a criminal until they've been convicted by a court. If you think they might be engaging in criminal behavior, what's wrong with having to get a warrant?

      This isn't making a mountain out of a molehill, it's squashing the molehill before it becomes a mountain.
      --
      "Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
    9. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by monopole · · Score: 3, Funny

      Got a cell phone? Most have GPS incorporated due to the E911 requirements. De facto broad surveillance of the population. But they're all terrorists anyway.

    10. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by HomelessInLaJolla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > Most have GPS incorporated

      Yeah. We tried to warn cell phone users about that. Most of them couldn't see past the "Ooh! Aah! New nifty social status gadget!" mentality.

      > they're all terrorists anyway

      Every single cell phone call relayed through a satellite counts as an international transmission and is eligible for government surveillance.

      Even if you manage to post to Slashdot through only American servers the moment someone in Canada reads your post it becomes an international transmission and is eligible for government surveillance.

      Forget the media dog'n'pony show complete with rank'n'file excuses and canned questions. Fact: The US Federal Government is out of control. Fact: They can justify anything they want at any time. Fact: If you notice it you will either be sent on a 5150 as "paranoid", shipped off to Gitmo, or you will meet a brick wall of denial.

      Fact: The only economically viable solution is complete and utter dismantling of the Federal Government. Failure to do so will inevitably result in pi55ing off someone who _is_ crazy enough to start a real war or execute a series, not just one, but a whole string of 9/11 style strategic attacks.

      It's only a matter of time.

      --
      the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
    11. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by CrashPoint · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Fact: The US Federal Government is out of control. Fact: They can justify anything they want at any time. Fact: If you notice it you will either be sent on a 5150 as "paranoid", shipped off to Gitmo, or you will meet a brick wall of denial.

      Fact: The only economically viable solution is complete and utter dismantling of the Federal Government. Failure to do so will inevitably result in pi55ing off someone who _is_ crazy enough to start a real war or execute a series, not just one, but a whole string of 9/11 style strategic attacks.

      Opinions: 2
      Unsupported Assertions: 3
      Facts: 0

      Knock it off with the "Fact:" crap. You're not helping.

    12. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      My girlfriend has a GPS on her car without knowing. Ok, I'm the one who put the GPS on her car. Oh, and she doesn't know that she's my girlfriend.

    13. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by maxume · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not really worried about it, etc., but it is only 'simply too much data to store' until it isn't. That is, how long until technology can easily keep up with the data? A year or two?

      The big cell companies have something like 60 million subscribers; to track everybody once a minute, that's something like 4 billion records an hour. So yeah, it's a lot of data, but figure what, 16 bytes for a record, so 64 gigabytes an hour and 11 terabytes a week. So yeah, I don't think that it is something that they would do casually at the moment, but they could very easily be tracking millions of people several times an hour, and given a few years for that 11 terabytes to become more manageable, and well, there ya go.

      (I wasn't careful with the math, so someone jump in if it looks wrong)

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    14. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by Cerilus · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Just get yourself a GPS jammer.

      I wonder if you were to jam a police GPS you'd be obstructing justice

      Steve

    15. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by HomelessInLaJolla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > Fact: If you notice it you will either be sent on a 5150 as "paranoid"

      This is a fact. I've proven it through personal experience at least three times.

      > Fact: They can justify anything they want at any time

      That is a fact as evidenced in the news over the last two years.

      > Fact: The only economically viable solution is complete and utter dismantling of the Federal Government

      Proof is available here.

      I don't know why the mods knocked the post down to -1:Flamebait. Apparently they haven't been paying attention to their political studies.

      The US is on a crash course to pi55 someone off royally and start a world war. How many paramilitary groups, which are in fundamental conflict with each other (not to mention all the others around the globe), does our own government fund using our taxpayer dollars?

      This isn't rocket science. This is basic (primative) human behavior and no amount of CNN sugar coating can change it.

      --
      the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
    16. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by T-Ranger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      GPSs can under ideal circumstances accurate down to 30cm. On handheld units, perhaps 10m. So WTF, lets go with that number. Further assume that people never travel faster then 1000km/h, which is about half the speed of a Concorde but still significantly faster then any commercial jet today in service. 1000km/h / 10m = 27.77 hz (maximum relevant data collection cycle) - 3 111.27 cycles/day. Say that they are lazy and they store UTM coordinates as 8 bit strings, thats 15 chars; 15 bits. 32 bit timestamps (which would be stupid, may as well be WTF ever GPS uses), and say 50 chars/bits for some kind of UID, we get 97.... call it 100 bits/user/cycle. Or around 40 kilobytes/day. Say I'm wrong, and off by a factor of 10, and they have no DBAs who know about data encoding. 400 k/day, less then 12mb/month.

      12mb/day is nothing, in the grand scheme of things, if "they" were motivated to do it. And assuming that they use a non-brain dead encoding scheme like I have proposed, and only record position if there is movement, then we are likely down to few mb/years. Cycle the data out so we only record ~100m accuracy, every 30 sec/max (fractions of hz), we are down to few mb/lifetime.

    17. Re:It ok'd the WARRANTLESS use of GPS by Bin+Naden · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's called stalking which IS illegal Unless you have a badge

      --
      There should be a "-1:Groupthink"
  2. Re:Officer Safety by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I actually see this as being a good thing. It allows officers to follow a suspect without putting themselves in danger or alerting the suspect to being followed.

    That's all good IF they have a warrant to authorize the tracking. The judge's decision essentially opened the door for warrantless surveillance of "suspects" - lack of judicial oversight over police actions isn't a good thing.

    -b.

  3. Re:Thinking about this... by Lithdren · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Let's say if the cops see a stolen car making its way through heavy traffic and they can't safely chase it
    That makes sense. They're tracking the car.

    The police in this case were using the GPS to track the person, through the car. The car itself wasn't at issue. Thats where this all falls apart. If the car was stolen, then they have an argument.
  4. If I find the bug, can I keep it? by radionerd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the police abandon their equipment by attaching it to my property does it become part of my property? Any good geek would want a nice new GPS reciever with a magnet on it to play with, wouldn't they? I've had run ins with the cops in the past, I inspect my vehicles from time to time. So far I haven't found anything new, but who knows?

  5. What about personal GPS Nav system??? by tillerman35 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Let's say I already have a GPS navigation system in my car which records my progress. Does this mean that the police no longer need a warrant to seize the tracking information? Since I supposedly have no right to privacy regarding the path which I took, how can I have any right to privacy for an instrument that records it, regardless of whether the instrument belongs to me, the police, or some third party? Ergo, the police no longer need a warrant to obtain the tracking information from rental car agencies. No slippery slope here, folks. Just a small step down a well-lit path.

  6. Re:Public Road vs. Privacy of one's home by FredMenace · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are several differences. For one thing, the car is still private property. Do the police have the right to just start messing with and essentially modifying your car without permission (from you or a judge)? I mean, if someone ELSE crawled under your car and attached a GPS to it and started tracking your location, should that be legal? If not, why would we let the police do it without a warrant?

    In addition, the tracking does not somehow automatically stop when the car EXITS public streets and enters private property. This is pretty much the equivalent of tagging someone's actual body with a nano-GPS device. Sure, the police could physically walk behind you when you're in public, but should they have the right to know what room you are in inside your house, at all times? And should they be able to know your location 24x7, from the comfort of their office chair, without even needing to convince a judge you're a likely suspect in a crime?

    I also do think the fact that this makes it much cheaper and easier to do IS significant. It's kind of like privacy on the Internet: lots of things that have always been "public knowledge" have in actually tended to be fairly private due to obscurity. Now, they can suddenly be instantly accessible to anyone in the world, often showing up unbidden in unrelated searches. Such changes in ease of access do indeed call for changes in laws regarding accessibility and privacy of information.

  7. ^BumP by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There's two ways to think of things:
    Crime Control
    Due Process

    The quick version is that crime control means giving police wide latitude to do their job. If they 'know' someone is guilty, they shouldn't have to jump through hoops to arrest & jail them. Due process says what it means: all the i's have to be dotted & the t's have to be crossed.

    Someone who says"I can very much see the police's side of this" is leaning towards the Crime Control school of thought, which is directly contrary to the system of law setup in These United States.

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:^BumP by HomelessInLaJolla · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > Crime Control

      I always assert that the rest is pre-empted by choice of the definition of the word "crime". We don't have too many criminals. We have too many laws.

      If we could refine our system of laws then, in instances such as this story, the appropriate use of power wouldn't be questionable because there'd be no excuse to abuse it in other more borderline situations.

      --
      the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
    2. Re:^BumP by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I take offense with that characterization and would go so far as to say that you're trying to divine a lot from a simple statement. And the statement is pretty simple: the police, by and large, are decent people trying to do a job. They're not power-mad little dictators, they're trying to protect people. Now, that doesn't mean we don't need to check them, because we surely do. But when they request a power with new technology, I'm willing to listen to their reasons with the assumption that they're sincere. I'm not always willing to grant them that power, however. (In fact, I tend to lean the other way. You might want to recalibrate your magic people stereotyper there.)

      All I said, and all that was meant, was that I can see the police's case here. Using a GPS tracker is not, in may respects, different from just following a person around. (Which they are allowed to do, as far as have ever heard.) But, as I noted, there are some differences that make me balk and not really feel that they're quite the same and that the tracker is going too far.

      In short, next time, try reading more careful and *not* leaping to assumptions. You'll save yourself some embarassment.

    3. Re:^BumP by shaitand · · Score: 4, Interesting

      'And the statement is pretty simple: the police, by and large, are decent people trying to do a job.'

      I'm sorry but that is extremely naive. People in general are not by and large decent and no sub-group of them is. If people by and large were good and decent then Communism would be the most effective economic system. People are greedy, mean, and cruel people driven by sugar-coated base instincts for which they have come up with extremely elaborate justifications over several thousand years.

      The position of police officer is an easily obtained position of ever increasing power with very little day to day oversight. For instance, a police officer could pull you over tonight for no reason at all and require you to walk 20 ft off the side of a low traffic road. If you refuse that officer can beat you with a baton and point a gun at you. Once he has you off the road he can sodomize you with the baton because he has a whim. Should you resist at any point the situation will basically degrade into a case of it being your word against his and believe me nobody takes the word of the offender over the word of the good police officer.

      Now you claim that they wouldn't do this because they are by and large good and decent people. After all, the people who are drawn to a position with that sort of power would never be the same kind of people who would want that sort of power. They would be the people who wouldn't want that kind of power, right? I mean really, there are more people who wouldn't suffer from typical human weakness and abuse great power than typical people right?

      The scenerio I listed would be an extreme but the kind of sadistic sexual pervert who would desire a scenerio like that isn't even uncommon let alone unheard of. It would stand to reason that those want to abuse power are more likely to seek out positions of power than those who do not want to abuse it. Even those with honest intentions will take on group behaviors and probably end up breaking rules to catch those they believe are bad guys.

      I have a unique perspective. I am now a business owner in a good neighborhood. I am well connected and highly respected in the community. The police do not usually pull me over because they do not believe I am 'up to something'. Recently a police officer did pull me over to courteously let me know my tags had expired and that I should get it taken care of as soon as possible. He called me sir and addressed me with respect.

      As a teen I was a rebellious youth to who smoked pot and listened to heavy metal. I dressed accordingly. The police questioned, searched, and harassed me and my friends regularly. The searches usually didn't have probable cause and if the police found something they would just lie about the circumstances. Now, usually an 'incident' would involve several police officers but any other officers would just back up whatever was in the report (no matter what really happened). In one case a friend was out past curfew on a bike, he also had a bench warrant for a pipe the police had previously found when stopping him for speeding some time before. The police checked his ID, saw he was of age, and sent him on his way. Just a few moments later the car started to come after him so he fled on the bike, figuring he could get away and carry on with his life since he lived in another state. The police officer chased him a couple blocks and then actually hit him with the car. They refused to let him be examined by the hospital and held him in a choke hold while strip searching him (he did not resist before they began choking him).

      Several officers 'witnessed' him wreck the bike on his own. All his bruises, scraps, and other marks were from that incident. It was also made clear to him that should he speak with a lawyer they would hear of it and his life would not be pleasant after that.

      I'm sure those police think of themselves as being by and large decent people trying to do a job. In their minds those kids are troublemakers and hoodlems and they are doing a good thing

  8. Note to self... by chaotixx · · Score: 3, Funny

    Don't date any daughters of police officers!

  9. Free nations should be tracking the cops by wardk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the cops are on the public dole, how do we know they aren't wasting our dollars messing around on duty?

    track all the cops all the time, record everyting they say or do.

    then track politicians next. then everyone on the public payroll.

    they work for us, it's about time we put the hammer down on their screwing around on duty

  10. Imagine it were a McBain movie by Sloppy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In fact, the judge feels that the police had probable cause.

    Maybe the way to look at it, is imagine if this were a McBain movie.

    McBain's partner, just a week before retirement, has just been shot by Columbian cocaine dealers. McBain runs out into the parking lot, sees his police car is on fire, and a car speeding away. He reaches into his pocket and pulls out a magnetized tracker (presumably there's some backstory about how it ended up in his pocket), and throws it at the fleeing car. It hits the roof of the car, but at a bad angle, and rolls down the side, dramatically slides, and miraculously takes hold.

    Maybe that car has the crooks in it, and maybe it doesn't. But he's just taken his best guess. As the fleeing car speeds off over the horizon, McBain goes back to his bleeding partner.

    "Get Mendoza, and .. *cough* .. and tell .. my wife .. I .. *cough* love he--*gurgle*. [dies]" McBain gets a determined look in his eye, walks back outside, where a guy has just dismounted a motorcycle.

    "Police business, I am commandeering this vehicle," he says in a heavy Austrian accent, and he mounts up and peels off with a powerful screech. It is a very "cool" motorcycle, despite the prominant Kawasaki logo.

    He pulls another electronic gizmo out of his pocket. We get to see the brand name very clearly: it's an HP Pocket PC with a MS Windows CE logo. He pushes a button, and there's an amazingly beautiful 3D movie (took 2 weeks to render on the Opteron cluster) on the little screen, showing just where the car of interest is.

    At this point in the movie, I have to ask you something. Are you thinking, "Whoa, that's not cool! Total abuse of power and violation of the 4th!" Or are you thinking, "Go McBain!" Well, what are you thinking, punk?

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  11. Important key word here: Reasonable Suspicion by Mad-cat · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think a lot of people don't understand just how important the term reasonable suspicion is in the US justice system.

    I am a law enforcement officer in Florida. If I have reasonable suspicion that you are actively engaged in a crime, I have the right to detain you, without arresting you or charging you, for up to 24 hours.
    While detained, I cannot search your person or your vehicle. You cannot give consent to be searched either, as you would be under duress and not free to go.
    What I can do is a cursory pat-down of your person for safety reason (see Terry Stop case law). I can also observe your vehicle from the outside, and if I see any weapons or contraband in plain view I can immediately arrest you and do a full search of both your person and your vehicle.

    Reasonable suspicion gives a police officer an enormous number of tools to work with. People need to learn what it means, and once they understand what it means, lobby for change if they do not like it. Most police officers stick to the letter of the law, and to the letter of the case law to the best of their abilities. If you change the law to restrict cops, all *good* cops will abide by it whether they like it or not.

    The key limit of what we can do under reasonable suspicion is "an unreasonable violation of a reasonable expectation of privacy." The judge probably believed that a GPS tracker placed on the exterior of a vehicle was no more invasive than an officer following the vehicle around to see where it went. We already do that when we do undercover surveillance ops.