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When Your Homework is to Make Good Games

Posted by Zonk on from the learning-is-fun dept.

Over on Wired's site, Chris Kohler has up a great pair of features on the growing role that game design is having in education. He had the opportunity to sit down with Mr. Henry Jenkins, one of the foremost authorities in the US on games and learning, to discuss the future of game-creation education. Schools all over the country are adding game design, art, and programming courses to their curriculum, and the article also mentions several high profile foreign programs opening in the near future. While the article is primarily about education programs, Kohler also had the chance to do a one-on-one interview with Mr. Jenkins. The piece has several interesting insights into how games and learning fit together as well as they do, as well as more details on the proposed Singapore/MIT game lab. Says Jenkins, "Some have said that the games industry has become so risk adverse that only a Miyamoto or a Wright can break through the formulas and generate truly original approaches to game design. Many observers have said we need to step outside of that system and provide some place where interesting new game prototypes can be incubated."

24 comments

  1. Goes both ways by Fried-Psitalon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Fair enough, but it's awful hard for people to make games that step outside of the typical when people are very, very shy of BUYING games outside the typical. Seriously - look at the top ten best selling games in the last few years; most of them are part of a series.People don't like taking risks on new games that could rule or stink at the prices involved in that kind of gamble.

    People will mindlessly spend money on a game they are pretty sure is good, rather than take a risk on something that might not be. We all play it safe with our cash. Want proof that anything with a sequel on it will be bought, regardless of how much crap it is?

    Mario Party.

    'nuff said.

    --
    The ability to communicate well does not directly correspond to the ability to communicate intelligently.
    1. Re:Goes both ways by robbiethefett · · Score: 1, Interesting

      or, how about an example of the exact opposite? like the wii. i guess the fact that its selling like hotcakes means no ones willing to spend money on it since it's new and unproven. i guess the ps3 is selling so well because of it's a member of a series.. oh wait.. its not selling, i forgot.

      --
      "Luke, you've switched off your targeting computer, what's wrong?"
    2. Re:Goes both ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Both Sony and Nintendo have standing reputations that correspond nicely to their sales figures.

      Sure, I'll buy a new Final Fantasy game because I trust Square/Enix to make a quality game. The same game released by anyone else I might be a little cautious about. This has nothing to do with Square/Enix taking risks and experimenting; I simply trust the brand. I have limited time to play games, so I try to make sure that games I play will be worth the time I spend.

    3. Re:Goes both ways by spun · · Score: 1

      It doesn't help that there aren't any real unbiased sources for game reviews. The whole industry is so incestuous, no one can trust what anyone says about a game. People would take more risks if they had better information.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    4. Re:Goes both ways by jlf278 · · Score: 0

      My first game system was pong, and I've had a system every generation since. Right now I'm seeing the more successful innovation than anytime in the last 15 years. With the nintendo Wii and DS, I'm extremely impressed with their creativity and direction. I could list dozens of games like trauma center and brain age, but I don't have to because they ARE POPULAR. People want games that are new and inventive rather than rehashed sequels. Yes, quality franchises exist where gamers can buy sequels without worrying that FFXII is broken, rushed and glitchy. Those games have EARNED their top-selling status, and when they disappoint, like Sonic, then they lose that status. Yet, those franchises are being created all the time, and the first games in the series sell like mad. This is because people are MORE likely to try the new game that got a 9.5 review by 7 websites than in 1988, when I had to rely solely on Nintendo Power and box art.

    5. Re:Goes both ways by Tronster · · Score: 2, Informative

      look at the top ten best selling games in the last few years From some reading on a (hopefully accurate) Wikipedia page. Top 10 PC:
      1. The Sims (16 million)
      2. Diablo II (15 million)
      3. StarCraft (9.5 million, includes StarCraft: Brood War)[3]
      4. Half-Life (8 million)
      5. World of Warcraft
      6. Myst (6 million)
      7. The Sims 2 (5 million)
      8. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind (4 million, including Xbox release)
      9. RollerCoaster Tycoon (4 million for the original in North America alone)
      10. Half-Life 2 (4 million)
      That's 4 out of 10 that is a sequel. But on the console it's a different story.
      1. Super Mario Bros. 3 (NES - 18 million)
      2. Super Mario Land (Game Boy - 14 million)
      3. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (14 million)
      4. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PS2 - 13 million)
      5. Super Mario 64 (N64 - 11 million)
      6. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec (PS2 - 11 million)
      7. Grand Theft Auto III (PS2 - 11 million)
      8. Gran Turismo (PS1 - 10.5 million)
      9. Super Mario Bros. 2 (NES - 10 million)
      10. Final Fantasy VII (PS1 - 9.8 million, includes Final Fantasy VII International)
      Pretty telling. I suppose there is some truth to the statement.
    6. Re:Goes both ways by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

      "People don't like taking risks on new games that could rule or stink at the prices involved in that kind of gamble."

      The problem is not with gamers, it's with how much games cost. Games have not seen any significant cost reduction at all at RETAIL when they are first released. THIS is the barrier to why "games don't sell", games cost too much to make and are in fact to expensive to buy unless it is a killer AAA title, if you wnat people to buy more games. 1) Figure out a better business model 2) Outsource.

      This is the real world, not fantasy land. Game developers in rich countries have to face the fact that: They cost too damn much and inflate game prices beyond what they are worth. That is a fact. The guys at EPIC know this, I remember reading an article from one of them saying that games really have to come down in price and new business / deevelopment models have to be found and to stop blaming gamers, they are trying to force a development and business model on a market unwilling to accept the price tag, so either you evolve, suck it up, or die.

    7. Re:Goes both ways by Fried-Psitalon · · Score: 1

      Come now...
      The Sims (16 million) - okay, probably not a sequel, but Maxis didn't put "Sim" on it by mistake
      Diablo II (15 million) - sequel
      StarCraft (9.5 million, includes StarCraft: Brood War)[3] - you mean "Warcraft in Space?" isn't a sequel? Granted, great game on its own right, but it was originally purchased because of the "Craft" and Blizzard's name.
      Half-Life (8 million) - not a sequel
      World of Warcraft - See "The Sims." Blizzard named it what they did for a reason.
      Myst (6 million) - not a sequel
      The Sims 2 (5 million) - sequel
      The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind (4 million, including Xbox release) - sequel
      RollerCoaster Tycoon (4 million for the original in North America alone) - how many Tycoon games are there again?
      Half-Life 2 (4 million) - sequel
      I'd put the count at 8 of 10, myself. Deliberately grabbing your company's predecessor game titles in order to assure yourself of brand reliability is really not very different - people will buy it for the name, not for the ingenuity.

      --
      The ability to communicate well does not directly correspond to the ability to communicate intelligently.
    8. Re:Goes both ways by AikonMGB · · Score: 1

      The parent brings up an important point about a user's tendency to avoid risky game purchases, but just a thought to add to that.. I would venture that a large number of gamers out there wouldn't hesitate to download the latest <insert genre> game just to see if its any good; if its not, they don't buy the game. But if it IS good, how many of those gamers are then going to turn around and buy the game now that they've already downloaded it? Barring, of course, subscription-based games like WoW or other features that require you to actually buy a legit copy.

      Just something that caught my attention while reading your post.

      Aikon-

    9. Re:Goes both ways by __aaqvdr516 · · Score: 1

      I don't believe it is "enuf said". I'm not a Mario Party fan...but to call them crap is just not true. They're just not YOUR personal cup of tea. They're not doing much in the way of innovation in that series either, but they do tweak them a bit every release.

    10. Re:Goes both ways by bovilexics · · Score: 1

      While this may have some small amount of truth to it, there is much more to it than that. It's not the case that unbiased reviews don't exist. Problem is that people don't pay attention and still by the same recycled titles that they are comfortable with. Don't blame the press for people being sheepish. There have been quite a few instances recently where MANY review sources were raving about a given title and no matter how much they attempted to get the word out it just didn't do any good. So don't tell me that there is an "unbiased game review" syndrome keeping people from being people. That's just not true.

      - Okami? Anyone?

      - Psychonaughts? No, nothing?

      Those are a couple of the recent titles that come to mind. Really made an attempt to do something unique that the critics loved, but the market did not. There are others. Look for Hotel Dusk for the DS to suffer this same fate.

      --
      Are you bovilexic? Moo!
    11. Re:Goes both ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You might want to double-check your sig...

  2. RIP Clover Studios by DarkJC · · Score: 1

    It's true that the industry is very risk averse. Besides the big names (Miyamoto and Wright), every once in a while a studio comes around and creates some very fun and very unique games. Clover Studios for instance, their most recent title of note being Okami.

    Unfortunately it appears that making great games isn't enough for the industry, as Capcom shut them down just recently. At least TeamICO (the ones behind ICO and Shadow of the Colossus, arguably two of the best games ever made) is still going strong. I head they're working on a PS3 title now. Let's hope it lives up to the reputation they've created for themselves.

  3. brain age? by smthngcrprt726 · · Score: 0, Troll

    brain age anyone? what better way to teach kids than video games, as nintendo has shown they can do... maybe we'll see more out of this genre in the future? we can only hope so, given the state of today's children

  4. Might need to change the attitudes, not process by BShive · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm taking some game design classes at my local college (totally unrelated to my 'real' job). This semester we're actually developing prototypes, and everyone submitted proposals for ideas (over 20 in all) that ranged from the 'been done' to unique to zany.

    The overwhelming favorite idea?

    A destroy everything FPS with "BIG EXPLOSIONS". Oh, and hell is involved too.

    To me the whole process just highlighted everything wrong with the industry. If the folks IN the industry (or at least want to be) aren't even interested in other ideas, what hope is there? You couldn't get any more cliche, yet they're willing to devote large quantities of time to adding this to their portfolios.

  5. Games for homework by totallyscrewed · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I do skasoftware.com, and I'm also a student at SUNY IT doing an MS in CS, and I always try to make up creative ways of turning projects into games. It makes the semester go by a lot faster. On my site, Supreme Earth Champion, Dead Pako, and Zomberman were all homework assignments (that I got A's on, mind you!)

  6. No wonder the average American is a moron... by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

    ...growing role that game design is having in education...


    Yippee - like physical and health education continue to have a growing roles in education? No wonder the average American is a moron...
    1. Re:No wonder the average American is a moron... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yippee - like physical and health education continue to have a growing roles in education? No wonder the average American is a moron...
      ...says the smelly fat guy
  7. The continued dilution of higher education by kmweber · · Score: 1, Insightful

    American higher education is turning more and more into nothing more than a series of vocational schools with fancy buildings.

    People are going there just to learn skills to get jobs rather than to learn for the sake of learning--which is what it's supposed to be all about.

    I blame the G.I. Bill. It wasn't until after WWII that this started to be a problem.

    --
    "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
    1. Re:The continued dilution of higher education by reanjr · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you but I can't afford $72,000 for the "sake of learning" (average cost of a bachelor's in the U.S.). The internet is free and has much more available. If I am going to drop that kind of money I need to be purchasing something more than lectures amongst 300 other students.

    2. Re:The continued dilution of higher education by praxis · · Score: 1

      You are correct, the internet is cheap and is a good resource for learning. I will disagree with you that your college tuition only gets you lectures with 300 other students.

      Given that you go to a respected school, you get a lot more. Those other students become your colleagues in your field. The professors that teach those classes are respected members of their fields. The social networking possible at a university is one of the biggest oppertunities you will have of your life. The other big take away from a university is the knowledge on *how* to function in your field, not so much what to do in it. Yes, those skills can be picked up from theoretical and practical knowledge, but the density at which you are exposed to theory and practice at the university is phenomenal.

      Say you want to be a bio chemist. You can read all the material you want on the web and learn a lot. When you apply for a grant, or to work for a company, you'll not look as good a candidate as a student who spent countless hours in an actual lab, handling the samples and doing the research.

      Say you want to be a novelist. You can read all the novels you want, write all the novels you want, and you will develope your style and skill. You'll do it much faster if you are studying in person under a Nobel winning novelist who gives you personal feedback on your writing and talking with other students about their work and feedback.

      Say you want to be a computer programmer. Well, that's one where the internet is a pretty good source on. Working on open source applications will ready you for many future tasks. None the less, having a Knuth or Rivest teaching your class can give you better oppertunity. You might show them a new algorithm you've been working on but haven't quite figured out what to use it for, or how to make it efficient. They can take your work, share it with other thinkers in the field, and figure out that you've had that breakthrough idea that's been holding up something they've been thinking about. Next think you know, you've co-published a paper with them and had your name bandied about the web as a repsected source on that topic.

      Not saying college is necessary, but don't fool yourself that the tuition is a waste, there are some vast oppertunities to be had there, regardless your field, so long as you are there with the right mindset and open to them.

  8. So what's it all about ? by Romwell · · Score: 1

    I have taken a game-making course in SUNY Stony Brook. To put it simply: it was great. All the instructor needs to require is, literally, make students do a good game. They do the rest. With a little pressure, a lot of cool things are created (also, that's the idea of a make-a-game-in-12-hours contests, isn't it ?)

  9. *Henry* Jenkins? by TheObruniSpeaks · · Score: 2, Funny

    It was my understanding that *Leroy* Jenkins was one of the foremost experts on games in the US...

  10. Shareware by MikeFM · · Score: 1

    This used to be addressed through offering programs as shareware. Make the first program free and easy to get and then make money by selling new installments.

    --
    At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.