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MPAA Violates Another Software License

Patrick Robib, a blogger who wrote his own blogging engine called Forest Blog recently noticed that none other than the MPAA was using his work, and had completely violated his linkware license by removing all links back to the Forest Blog site, not crediting him in any way. The MPAA blog was using the Forest Blog software, but had completely stripped off his name, and links back to his site. He only found about it accidentally when he happened to visit the MPAA site.

39 of 297 comments (clear)

  1. Maybe they should be investigated som more by viking80 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am quite sure MPAA would fail in many similar regards if someone would take the effort to investigate.

    --
    don't cut it off www.mgmbill.org
    1. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by daknapp · · Score: 5, Funny

      Wouldn't it be nice to send the friendly folks from the BSA to do a complete software audit of the MPAA?

      Maybe an auditing circle-jerk could be set up: the BSA investigates the MPAA, who investigates the RIAA, who invesigates the BSA, etc. ad nauseum, and they could just leave the rest of us alone.

    2. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by eskayp · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Maybe an auditing circle-jerk could be set up:..."

      Their circle is already a bunch of jerks.

      --
      I didn't desert Windows; Windows deserted me: BSOD
    3. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Mistlefoot · · Score: 5, Interesting

      While I hope this is true - it would look good on the MPAA

      1) The screencaps show very little detail
      2) "Dan Glickman Forum" from the screencaps turn up nothing in Google.
      3) The line provided http://www.mpaa.org/blog_default.asp doesn't exist, isn't found in google OR the wayback machine and the home page back in September 06 looks very much like it does today - I don't find any obvious links to this.

      If the MPAA accuses me of stealing files they had better produce some evidence and I damn well expect (not that they desterve it) that evidence has to be provided on this.

      Of course my Google skills might not be up to snuff - but come on community, find the evidence while it still exists - if it did at all.

    4. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Peet42 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The third screenshot is of an article that was published by Glickman in "Variety":

      http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117931921.html?c ategoryid=9&cs=1

      Now, it's possible that he was lazy and just dumped an article he was paid for straight into his BLOG, but it's equally likely the screenshot was faked using data that was already out there. :-/

    5. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by heroofhyr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have a strange question: why is the article he supposedly took a screenshot from dated September 29th, 2006, but the calendar for the archive of posts is February 2007? I thought perhaps the calendar in this software might display the current month regardless of which post you're reading, but if you look at this link to the author of the programme's own site, here, you'll see that the calendar does indeed change with the post you're reading. Which means the article on the MPAA blog is supposedly from over 3 months ago but the calendar is showing this month. Either the screencap is faked, the web admin who set up the software doesn't know what the fuck he's doing, or the software needs work. There's also no mention of the blog ever being there in Google or the Internet Archive despite the former surely having a copy and the latter already having an index of tens of thousands of pages from the MPAA site, and not a single one of them matching a search for this blog. Maybe the guy just wants to do some viral marketing, maybe he supports the MPAA philosophically and wants a bunch of overhyped, gullible nerds to get upset so he can make them look foolish later. Or maybe it is legitimate and he just happens to have stumbled upon the site, the link just happens to be taken down, and all mention of it from the face of the Internet has disappeared forever. That seems really likely.

      --
      brandelf: invalid ELF type 'KEEBLER'
    6. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Chiaro+Meratilo · · Score: 5, Informative

      If you see his latest post, here, you'd see the MPAA's response.

    7. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Patrick+Robin · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm the creator of Forets Blog and, obviously, the author of this article so its only right that I respond to your queries.

      1) The screenshots show as much detail as possible, I can/could only view the output of my system and not the source.
      2/3) I came across the blog through my website referals when they accessed the RSS feed from my site. The site was live and online but I'm unsure whether it was ever linked to or if it was spidered by google, but it was on a live web server that was accessable by any member of the public. It has been removed from their web server since the article was written after some dialogue between myself and the MPAA.

      I have been in communication with Paul Egge and Richard Kroon (Director of Application Development) at the MPAA and have copies of all of the emails that were sent.

    8. Re:Maybe they should be investigated som more by Patrick+Robin · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think you are getting slightly confused, the calendar isn't there to access archive posts but to view events that the blog owner has entered in to the system and the calendar operates independantly of which ever page is being browsed. When you are viewing the events for a given date, such as you have linked to, the calendar will change to show that month. If you are just browsing the site it will show the current month/year by default. If you look at my update on the site (http://www.patrickrobin.co.uk/default.asp?Display =5) you will see why the MPAA blog is no longer visible.

  2. Well, not anymore... by rwven · · Score: 4, Funny

    Apparently they're hiding now. I get a "Page cannot be found" on the MPAA blog...

    1. Re:Well, not anymore... by zCyl · · Score: 5, Funny

      Don't worry, after they pay for the Forest Blog software, they'll ... um ... they won't be able to buy a corporate lunch. Not bankruptcy I suppose, but something.

      Note, at present exchange rate, the permision to remove the links is $97.

      No no no. It has nothing to do with the cost of the albu^H^H^H^Hsoftware. You see, since they didn't pay initially, they should have had a link. And if they had placed a link, then there would have been more users of Forest Blog, and thus they are liable for each user who did not use Forest Blog because they were missing the link. Therefore their liability should be $97 times everyone who has visited mpaa.org, and thus was a lost customer, plus punitive damages of $150,000 per page that should have had a link.
    2. Re:Well, not anymore... by David+Horn · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually, £97 is about $190 thanks to your tumbling economy... ;-)

      --
      PocketGamer.org - For the gamer on the go!
    3. Re:Well, not anymore... by Hektor_Troy · · Score: 4, Funny

      $193. Talk about speedy ...

      --
      We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
    4. Re:Well, not anymore... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As much as I'd love to see the MPAA get nailed for this, they won't. They don't play by the same rules one of us would be forced to play by if we were nailed for something. They will be liable for nothing.

      Corporate criminals are clever enough to distance themselves from all crimes they oversee. They're going to release a statement about how this page was handled by some lowly contractor, who takes all fault, they removed it as soon as it was found, and walk away clean.

    5. Re:Well, not anymore... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      ---------------> Joke
      O
      /|\ --------->You
      / \

  3. Not the first time by Ydna · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is not the first time the MPAA has been caught pirating the copyrighted works of others. They got caught making and distributing copies of This Film Is Not Yet Rated without permission (and after they claimed they did not make any copies).

    --

    "The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once." -me

    1. Re:Not the first time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I don't know why your post is modded as "informative," because you haven't provided any information about the incident to which you are referring. Maybe if I post that the MPAA were caught red-handed drowning kittens and leaving the toilet seat up I can be modded "informative" too?

    2. Re:Not the first time by great+throwdini · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't know why your post is modded as "informative," because you haven't provided any information about the incident to which you are referring.

      Should you happen to rent or buy This Film Is Not Yet Rated the "incident" discussed in-thread is detailed during the audio commentary (by the film's director and producer) and again within a deleted scene (the phone call from an MPAA lawyer that informed the director of unauthorized copying was filmed, though the MPAA's half of the conversation was not directly recorded).

      In a nutshell, the director had submitted the film to the MPAA for ratings review and was told that no one other than the raters would view the tape provided. He was also told that no copies would be made of the supplied materials. It came to pass that members of the MPAA admitted to not only screening the film for several non-raters but also to making at least one complete (and unauthorized) copy of the supplied tape.

      Wikipedia covers this same ground though that summary is about as lacking as mine in terms of substantive references.

  4. How hard is it to check the license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    At least *I* make sure that "grep GPL /dev/dvd" gets a match before I copy a DVD.

    1. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by SirSlud · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Thats not the issue really. The issue is that strict copyright law is basically unenforcable. This isn't 10 rich guys and 30 lawers going, "Muwhahaha", this is some web team figuring that they're no different from the thousands of other coders like us that break the occasional license unbeknownst to our bosses.

      If anything, this is like the futility to pointing out that MPAA or RIAA heads' family members pirate content. At the end of the day, what are people against the copyright lobby fighting for? Some say downright incorrect prosecution, which obviously happens, but underneath it all, its the result of a lack leniancy and less strict laws. The only reason that breaking a "Linkware" license is news is because of it highlites that copyright laws are, in the end, only selectively enforced, not because of some organizational hypocricy. The hypocricy basically is unintentional, and to me, thats really what the problem is. Its not some blatent flogging, its just the old adage of the impractibility of ensuring that those around you practise what you preach. Getting onto that soapbox and being adamant about how you live your life is in no way an argument against an organzation that is hypocritical for the very reason that it is not one single person but a large organization of people. Its like some company saying that j-walking in all cases, always, everytime, hurts their bottom line; it'd take you less than 10 minutes if you had full access to everyone at a company to spot apparent hypocricy, but that wouldn't be the time to point out, "Hey, *I* don't j-walk." Its not revelent, because at some point, the eagerness of enforcement is more relevant than the actual law.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    2. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The issue is that strict copyright law is basically unenforcable. This isn't 10 rich guys and 30 lawers going, "Muwhahaha", this is some web team figuring that they're no different from the thousands of other coders like us that break the occasional license unbeknownst to our bosses.
      It's not that strict copyright law is unenforceable, it's the fact that the culture overwhelmingly looks at copyright as a minor violation.
    3. Re:How hard is it to check the license? by kevinbr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "....Stealing a copy of something leaves behind no evidence...."

      Over and over.....copying is not stealing. It is copying. There is a difference. The powers that be LOVE when people call copying stealing. If I steal an object - you no longer have the object. If I copy an object, you still have the object. Copyright is a givernment granted monopoly so what I am doing in copying is ignoring your monopoly. What I actually do with that copy then defne the damage that potentially could occur to your income from that copy.

      I grew up copying my friends albums on tapes. We all bought stuff, but no one bleated then about stealing. We called it sharing.

      How many people out there are buying NOYTHING and only aquiring music via copying. Very few I would imagine.

  5. Civil (not criminal) by cdn-programmer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In spite of the fact there is criminal legislation in place for copyright infringment, I expect the prosecutors will look the other way and declare it to be civil. This will just be another example of the double standard.

    As a civil issue ( the only other legal avenue ), you can only hope to obtain justice through the courts. It will cost $1000's to get a judgment, perhaps $100,000's. There is no justice. All we have is persecution it would seem with the powerful pretty much doing whatever they like with impunity.

    While its not fair, the question any prosecutor is going to ask is if spending the taxpayers money on this is a good idea. Of course, spending the taxpayers money prosecuting a person charged with a traffic incident is always considered a good idea because its cheap (usually) and meant to keep the sheep in line and paying the fines.

    Am I a cynic?

  6. Contact MPAA about piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Here, I suggest contact MPAA about the whole piracy issue and point them to the offending party; themselves.

    http://www.mpaa.org/ReportPiracy.asp
    Please feel free to let them know about their own transgressions.

  7. Here's the MPAA response: by All_One_Mind · · Score: 5, Informative
    From the next blog post on the authors site:

    Well, I must say I'm surprised;to after getting no response to my previous emails to the MPAA about their use of Forest Blog at the tail end of last year I got a result within five hours this time, unless they were just replying to the original email?

    Anyway, thanks to Paul Egge and Richard Kroon the situation has now been resolved and they've removed Forest Blog from their web server.

  8. Re:Middleman? by devilspgd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What if someone else violated the license and made a stripped version of Epic Movie available, without any references to the original author? How in general can one tell whether one is getting the original movie with intact copyright notices?

    --
    Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, but teach a man to phish...
  9. MPAA existential dilemma by mattr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    P.S. Personally I think there is a major problem with the existence of an industry association like the MPAA and it being able to generate limitless lawsuits against customers on behalf of its members. I say Sony or Toshiba EMI ought to be required to do the suing, and see if they really have the stomach to do it and get caught out.

    As it is now, the MPAA appears to exist for the sake of making lawsuits; its profit is based on the success of the lawsuits, and it is presumably paid by its members the startup cash needed to hire all those lawyers, to generate enough income to eventually make the lawsuit engine self-sustaining. Sounds like Microsoft/Baystar and SCO doesn't it? Or a recent RAM patent company?

    When Sony embeds a rootkit they get clobbered with bad PR, and when EMI's copy protection sucks they get clobbered. Conversely, when EMI considers removing all copy protection they get even more, positive, PR. But when the MPAA sues soccer moms, the record companies seem to be wearing some kind of armor. All the bad PR sticks to their stalking horse, the MPAA. (Which like JASRAC in Japan has been the number one impediment to online distribution.)

    I say the MPAA is a menace to the public and serves no purpose other than to make frivolous lawsuits on the behalf of big record companies while insulating them from the media. It does not exist to protect authors at all, but rather seeks to cause enough mayhem to scare people from trying other distribution mechanisms, by grabbing "rights" that never previously existed for music before the digital age. This is remembered well by anyone who grew up with cassettes or 8 track tapes.

    I posted elsewhere in this thread that the MPAA's logic should be used against them to generate a huge award for the theft and performance of the Forest Blog software for a potentially huge number of page views. This model, in which a software author is granted the same rights as a music author, turns software downloading and web page views into something much more insidious than trite torrent sharing, in a legal sense. So I think now is a good time not only to make a legal case against the MPAA, but in fact to start aiming at them with big cannons like RICO and public opinion. Let the record labels do their own dirty work and pay for it individually when their customers get mad.

  10. Update on his site by creativeHavoc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    http://www.patrickrobin.co.uk/default.asp?Display= 5 The MPAA claim that it was in use only privatly and they had no advertising. Good to know. If they ever come knocking, I will tell them I watched the movies and home and never sold them to anyone.

    --
    insight through the mind
  11. Re:Here's the "/." response: by NormalVisual · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In other words when informed they do the correct thing about it.

    How many of the targets of **AA action were afforded the opportunity to just say the same thing - "okay, sorry, I took it down, and it wasn't really meant for public consumption anyway, so we didn't do anything wrong", as opposed to being on the wrong end of a settlement demand?

    --
    Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
  12. No, we get it. by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We want to remind the MPAA that "those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." If the MPAA wasn't complaining about other people's copyright infringment, then I wouldn't complain about its. But it is, so I will. Get it?

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  13. Re:Oh, the sweet paradox for Slashdot. by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not about whether or not anyone supports or opposes copyright law. The MPAA has claimed in public that copyright infringement is immoral and unethical. Their motivation for doing this is obvious: If they inform the public that some action is illegal, while the public thinks there's nothing wrong with the action morally and ethically, then they risk having the law changed to reflect the public's opinion. Convincing people that they have the moral/ethical high ground ensures that they can continue to benefit from the current legal system, or even lobby successfully for stricter measures in their favour.

    Remember their ad campaign:

    YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A CAR
    YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A HANDBAG
    YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A TELEVISION
    YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A DVD
    DOWNLOADING PIRATED FILMS IS STEALING

    The message that they are obviously trying to advance is that copyright infringement is stealing, and therefore is immoral, unethical, and illegal. However, their blatant disregard for the exclusive legal rights of others under copyright law demonstrates the hypocrisy of this claim to the moral and ethical high ground. It shows that even the people behind the MPAA are not themselves convinced that the issue is as simple as "copyright infringement is stealing". How, then, do they expect the rest of the public to be convinced?

  14. Story isn't up to date by Ace905 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just so everybody knows, this story does have a happy ending. The MPAA responded, finally, to his inquiries after a very long wait - by saying essentially that they were only using his software for 'testing' purposes and that the offending site was never made live, advertised on the internet etc.

    The Forest Blog Author retorted, in his update to this story, that he doubts they would have been so kind if he 'borrowed' some movies for 'testing' purposes but never distributed them to anybody. He makes a valid point.

    The entire trial over those dvd-codec software coders was based on them 'circumventing' a DVD's protection mechanism - it had nothing to do with them actually committing piracy, and were it not for the Digitial Millenium Copyright Act the MPAA would have had no case at all. Essentially they sued and won, establishing for the first time in history that you can purchase intellectual property but essentially not have ownership of the rights to even use it, however you see fit.

    Remember that all laws previous to the DMCA were to protect against piracy, (bootlegging, distribution, etc). But now the DMCA actually limits your freedom of use, even for personal use. And it's been proven. If they can do that, why can they abuse fair-use of software they essentially got just by agreeing to it's terms of use?

    I say he still send his case to the EFF and hope that they can use something in this as ammunition against the MPAA.

    ---
    DMCA Doesn't Protect Against This!

    --

    Ace
  15. DMCA by dekkerdreyer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Simply send a DMCA take down notice to their ISP requesting that the site be taken down because it is infringing.

    --
    Dekker Dreyer
  16. Re:so what ? - his theoretical loss is only 25 pou by freedom_india · · Score: 4, Informative

    You are wrong. Here's why and also how a Good Lawyer can sue and win atleast 1.2 million dollars from MPAA.

    First, the fact that MPAA violated his license. According to the DMCA under section 1204 penalties range up to a $500000 fine...

    Next, each visitor to MPAA pages could have been a POTENTIAl licensee of the software. This POTENTIAL was lost by the author since no link backs were provided. Assuming a good lawyer subpoenas' MPAA website administrator and gets a total of number of visitors to the page(s) from date of violation till date of verdict, takes a very conservative estimate that atleast 50% of the people visited could have licensed the software, (same calculations that MPAA uses to send take-down notices and suits for damages), the author can easily claim atleast $1.2 million.

    Now, once the case goes to court, by that time it has been proven MPAA had violated his copyright. The judge would have no qualms declaring MPAA guility under DMCA. The second play is for more damages outside the $5000000 fine.

    If only 1,000 visitors visited the site since the day of violation the fine would stand reduced, however i bet it is more.

    A more serious lawyer can pursue it even further and argue that since the MPAA in its role as a guardian of digital copyrights has ITSELF violated the DMCA (thus a case of fence eating the flock), it must be criminally tried and asked to pay a more amount as fine to the poor author.

    One sympathetic judge is enough to screw MPAA in this case.
    I would say, first get a GOOD lawyer.

    --
    "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
  17. True, but not exactly true - follow up needed by Em+Ellel · · Score: 4, Informative

    After doing some similar research, I came to the conclusion it is either a clever marketing ploy by blog author, or more likely some hidden prototype site their web development team was using and as it was never linked from main page, it was never found by any spiders (yet referrers to authors site showed up in his logs, which is exactly how he found out about it), Turns out the latter is the case

    -Em

    --
    RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
  18. Its sorta legit.... by Em+Ellel · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The article needs update

    short of it is:

    MPAA Response:

    The material has been removed from our Web server.

            * No Web links were ever provided to the blog.
            * The blog was never assigned a domain name.
            * The blog was never advertised to the public in any way.
            * The material on the server was a proof of concept awaiting approval to move into production.
            * The blog was only ever used for testing purposes.
            * Should we have decided to make the move to production, then we would have paid the 25 Pounds that would have authorized us to run a version of the blog without the logos and links.


    --
    RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
    1. Re:Its sorta legit.... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Should we have decided to make the move to production, then we would have paid the 25 Pounds that would have authorized us to run a version of the blog without the logos and links. So, presumably, that means it's fine for me to download films created by MPAA members as long as I say I'll buy the DVD if I like them?
      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  19. Don't fool yourself by QuietLagoon · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Anyone who thinks the MPAA (and the RIAA) are really concerned about protection of the creative rights of the artists is fooling themselves.

    The MPAA and RIAA are concerned about nothing more than maximizing revenues for the organizations they represent. Period.

    The mention of the artists is only to make it appear as if the MPAA and RIAA have some sort of noble purpose. The MPAA and RIAA represent the media content industry executives, not the artists.

  20. Since they've admitted to having done it by symbolset · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The next logical step would be to subpoena every computer, hard drive and backup tape in the organization, worldwide, as discovery in a lawsuit to recover damages.

    I'm certain their own seizure subpoenas could be referenced for precedent and legal justification.

    But I Am Not A Lawyer.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.