Slashdot Mirror
UK's Blair Dismisses Online Anti ID-Card Petition
An anonymous reader writes "Prime Minister Tony Blair has responded personally via email to 28,000 online petitioners opposing the UK's planned identity card scheme, and has closed the online petition. The email reads: 'We live in a world in which people, money and information are more mobile than ever before. Terrorists and international criminal gangs increasingly exploit this to move undetected across borders and to disappear within countries. Terrorists routinely use multiple identities — up to 50 at a time... ID cards which contain biometric recognition details and which are linked to a National Identity Register will make this much more difficult.'"
Link to the actual petition -> here
Slaves,
When your masters gives you something, you take it. I'm giving you a nice
new collar so you can't hide or run away. The global plantation has
grown to such a size we just have to have smart chains and collars.
"The petition calling for the Government to abandon plans for a National ID Scheme attracted almost 28,000 signatures - one of the largest responses since this e-petition service was set up. So I thought I would reply personally to those who signed up, to explain why the Government believes National ID cards, and the National Identity Register needed to make them effective, will help make Britain a safer place." Translation: "Sod the petition. We're not listening to you. You are all wrong." No need to read any further really. I didn't really need to read the rest.
Much like a European way of looking at the world doesn't adequately appreciate how the modern USA came into existence and operates now, your way of looking at Europe is coloured by where you come from and as a result isn't as valid as it could be. Europeans do not concentrate on 'freedom' as much which will be so contrary to your beliefs that you won't understand the ramifications, and you'll dismiss that way of thinking without giving it further thought.
The camels are coming. I'm in love.
The point of the petition was that we don't care that the 'Terrorists' COULD POSSIBLY use our ID details to accomplish their nefarious schemes. However, we do object to the DEFINATE invasion of our privacy in order to prevent something that MIGHT happen.
Note the difference.
Ninjas use italics.
The anti-congestion charge one has racked up over 1.5 million signatures, and that too is going to be ignored.
:(
Last week I created a petition asking the government to actually pay notice to the petition service that *THEY* set up, and not just give it lip-service when it suits them... That petition request was rejected.
So much for democracy
Sig out of date
"Prime Minister Tony Blair has...... closed the online petition."
There was a deadline for signatures and it has passed. Blair has responded to the petitioners after the petition was complete. That sounds more like he was pissed of with it and closed the petition. The fact that the prime minister personally closed the petition was the item in this story that pissed me off the most and that wasn't even true.
There's plenty we can moan at Blair for without making things up.
If terrorists justify everything, terrorists are an irresistible weapon for a dishonest government.
In Italy the communist BR have appeared in two occasions lately. Some years ago they killed two people, D'Antona and Biagi, the second one was working on a law on new type of flexible work contracts. Result, the Biagi bill gets passed with nobody daring to make a discussion. Same kind of laws in france wrecked the government caused unrest.
Ten days ago a police operation finds terrorists who were plotting against berlusconi et al. Media start talking about terrorism again and a national demonstration in Vicenza against the planned increase of american military presence in the nearby base, having a sizable percentage of leftists, becomes a terrorist threat.
People who started protesting because their city, Vicenza, is already too crowded first get commies using the occasion to burn flags, then they are looked upon the police as potential terrorists. Checkmate.
---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
It's really easy to say, "Terrorists routinely do this." I suspect there is some truth to it in this case, but I don't like the whole "Take my word for it. The terrorists are always doing this." being a justification for whatever the fuck rights they wish to trample.
All 9/11 hijackers had a proper ID with no prior criminal record. I don't see how biometric ID would have solved anything besides making airport security more confident in letting them through. Known terrorists like Bin Laden would rather stay in their air conditioned caves and let grunts do all the work.
An online petition has absolutely no effect! Film at 11!
On the face of it I agree with you however there are numerous problems with the scheme as proposed which are why I don't support it.
1) You don't currently have to have a passport and I believe you can travel in the EU without one.
2) You will be forced to have an ID card which you will need to pay for yourself and pay for its renewal every 10 years or so
3) A huge database will be created linked to the ID cards which will be accessible to every branch of government and even private companies such as banks etc. The government refuse to say what kind of information will be in this database but it will be extensive
4) ID cards cannot be shown to help in the fight against a) immigration, b) terrorism, c) crime, d) benefit fraud
5) All of this will be very very expensive, a nuisance to deal with and useless in most practical terms.
No one ever questioned if this could be useful for the governments.
Just like no one ever questioned if DNA registers could at least theoretically be useful.
This is not what the petition is about. It's about the fact that all registers can and will be mis-used "for the better".
And that's an awful lot of lets-be-afraid-of-terrorists mumbo-jumbo. I'd say, let's understand what makes terrorists do what they do. Let's analyze and talk about that. Perhaps is it linked with the gigantic abuse of poor people in poor countries led by todays imperialistic crusades.
We don't need you to patrinise us by attempting to explain why we are wrong My Blair. What many of us are trying to say to you is that we fully understand your viewpoint so you can stop explaining it to us. What we are saying to you is that you are wrong. Wrong because you don't have a very good understanding of security. Wrong because you have no ability to clearly judge the value this scheme will give us. Wrong because you have the terror threat out of proportion. Wrong because you are wasting our money on something we don't want or need.
Your job is to represent our views, not to decide what is best for your self and explain to us why you think it is right.
Honestly, I don't think you have the understanding of security issues to grasp why biometriecs are a very bad choice for personal security, nor do I think you have the imagination to forsee the abuses that could come of this. Combine these two things with your governments record on large scale IT projects and anyone can see that we are heading for disaster.
-- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz
No2ID, the UK's leading campaign against the National Identity Card and the Database State, realised even before this petition was launched that the site exists only to encourage "fire and forget" activism from people. People signing up to No2ID are encouraged to subscribe to a fortnightly e-mail newsletter which keeps them up to date with the latest news on ID Cards in Government and across the country.
The No2ID campaign has encouraged a 30% swing in public opinion against Identity Cards, has encouraged councils and other organisations across the country to oppose the Government's plans, and formed a wide alliance of political parties and unions from all sides of the spectrum in opposition to this scheme. It's unlikely that the Tories would have come out against ID cards (albeit in a half-arsed way) without No2ID's influence.
If people want to make a difference, joining and supporting No2ID is the best way to do so. There are local groups nationwide, which can always benefit from more supporters.
This won't work for two reasons :
So searching for matching biometric data won't detect terrorist keeping low profile and is at risk of harassing innocent people who had the bad luck to very much look alike some criminal idiot at the other side of the country whom they've never heard about.
ID cards proponents should stop pushing it as "the" miracle solution to terrorism, and only present it as what it is : a ID which is marginally more difficult to abuse compared to previous solution, and which will be handy (in countries lacking one before) as a quick solution for everyday usage when you need to show someone else your identity (like giving your age before entering in a night-club, before buying alcohol, while using a credit card, when going to the administration, etc.) A single standarised card is more convenient than having tens of different type of picture ID and seeing the one you handled refused because "Sorry, I don't know the ID. I can't determine if it wasn't tampered with. Do you have any other ID ?". But I'll never magically remove terrorism
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
If you're a UK citizen and can see what a bad implementation of a disastrous idea this is going to turn out to be, please join no2id.org and help in a practical way, as well as moaning about it on Slashdot! :)
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
It's not about the card. Not really. It's the NIR database - an automated system for recording where you go, what you buy, your interactions with officials and (some) of what you do. This takes a lot of smaller databases, many of which already exist, and integrates them into a single database, which (in theory) gives an accurate record of your entire life in a single place. Then the NIR database is updated whenever you use your card (or something linked to it).
Concerns include:
1. Records might not be accurate.
2. People might commit crimes using other people's identities.
3. Records might be used to build criminal cases against people when the police have little evidence (see 1 and 2).
4. Records might be data-mined for "patterns of suspicious activity" to detect criminals. This might produce false positives.
5. People might end up having to prove their own innocence, rather than the onus being on the authorities to prove guilt.
In addition, any database specialist will be able to suggest concerns about the security of the system, especially as it will have a large number of users, throughout the civil service and private business.
>north
You're an immobile computer, remember?
In US terms this is the pork barrel to end pork barrels, and a way to ensure a continued revenue stream to Blair Inc when he leaves office. Because I'm sure that:
He will be "advising" those companies for a fee
She, as a human rights lawyer, will be deriving fee income from (a) civil liberties groups challenging aspects of the scheme and (b) Government departments on the other side.
This is a wonderful earning opportunbity for the Blairs, and they will not let it go without a huge fight.
Pining for the fjords
Blair already plans to misuse the data. Suddenly he regards a measure that was meant only to stop terrorists and illegal immigration as a means to solve every open crime of the last 50 years!
Compared to Tony Blair, Big Brother was a piker.
Some guy has already submitted a petition to reopen the "scrap Id card" petition. [ReopenIDpetition]
The problem is the whole idea of petitions is flawed.
Put bluntly, if I were PM I'd either shut down or ignore such petition sites and try and arrange a decent forum (slashcode based?) for online debate instead. The quality of insight into an issue (and peoples feelings) I derive from discussions on Slashdot is way higher than from reading a random bunch of petitions ... and when I check the facts behind peoples comments I generally find them to be accurate. At least, more accurate than a typical petition justification.