MS Dirty Tricks Archive Trickles Back Online

networkBoy writes with word that The Register is following up its story about the Microsoft dirty tricks archive going offline. It appears that several individuals have the pieces to the puzzle and are looking for hosting resources. From the latter article: "The 3,000 document archive from the Comes antitrust trial, which disappeared from the web abruptly when Microsoft settled the case last week, is beginning to trickle back into view. A week ago the site was placed under password protection, Microsoft withdrew its own account of events, and so-called internet 'archive' archive.org apparently also pulled its mirror."

Comments

Is there someone at Archive.org we can ask why?

[gurps_npc]

I would love to know what 'excuse' Archive.org gave for removing such essential internet history information. It seems to be there reason for existence.

Re:Is there someone at Archive.org we can ask why?

[cperciva]

I would love to know what 'excuse' Archive.org gave for removing such essential internet history information. It seems to be there reason for existence.

The people who run archive.org aren't immune from copyright law. The legality of their archive is questionable at best, but if the copyright owner for some documents or web sites asks that they be removed, the legality is no longer questionable.

Re:Is there someone at Archive.org we can ask why?

[Shakrai]

The people who run archive.org aren't immune from copyright law.

Isn't anything entered into evidence in a civil or criminal proceeding automatically part of the public domain?

Re:Is there someone at Archive.org we can ask why?

[omeg]

They're not a multi-billion dollar international. They rely on donations from the public and don't make a single dime of profit. As such, what makes you think they have the ability to get into a lawsuit? Microsoft might not have won if they did go to court over those files, but it would have been very costly. That's not something that they will want to do to their donators at all. Additionally, it would be bad press and make it very difficult for people to continue being donators, because they'd never know what their money is going to be (mis)used for.
It was in their best interest to take down those files. This is also a policy that other important free content sites (like Wikipedia) uphold.

Re:Is there someone at Archive.org we can ask why?

[Animats]

I would love to know what 'excuse' Archive.org gave for removing such essential internet history information.

Anyone have the Internet Archive URL involved?

Most likely, though, is that the site added a restrictive "robots.txt" file. The Archive obeys the "robots.txt" file retroactively. If you put one up, the Archive will disallow access to all the files that would have been blocked in the past according to the "robots.txt" file.

The data isn't gone from the Archive, though. Access has just been disallowed. You can ask that it be re-allowed given the legal justification that the information is a public record.

Re:Is there someone at Archive.org we can ask why?

[BeProf]

IANAL, and I'm not familiar with the details of the case, but...

When a case was settled out of court and a common feature of such settlements is that the complainant agree to shut their yaps in return for a large financial settlement from the respondant. And if this was an out of court settlement, none of the material in question was ever submitted into evidence and thus never became part of the public record.

Re:Is there someone at Archive.org we can ask why?

[networkBoy]

Yes it is, unless sealed by the court.
To that end, since the register article says someone has a copy and needs a sympathetic host, I'll host all I can :)
Anyone else have bandwith and space to spare? I'm thinking just torrent the whole tarball or rar and distribute it far and wide. Once the cat's out of the bag and multiplied it's gonna be hard to put back. As long as only one person has a copy though, it will be easy to quash.
-nB

Re:Is there someone at Archive.org we can ask why?

[Pantero Blanco]

Isn't that the tactic that the Church of Scientology uses to shut up its critics? Using copyright law to prevent critical discussion of their materials?

I don't think that copyright is the issue here, though; court records and submitted evidence wouldn't be covered by that, if I understand correctly.

Re:Is there someone at Archive.org we can ask why?

[sabt-pestnu]

Groklaw.com and its viewers have archived the documents and the host is preparing a permanent page for the Comes vs Microsoft trial documents.

agreed. Data in one place is vulnerable to deletion. Data in many places is less so. ... noise might be an issue, though.

Re:Is there someone at Archive.org we can ask why?

[sabt-pestnu]

I believe you are thinking of the settlement details, which are usually not part of the court documents. Thus the "out of court" part of the name.

As other posters note, as soon as it is ordered by the court or submitted to the court, unless it is sealed, it's part of the court (and thus public) record - put into the public domain. Witness the SCO vs IBM, SCO vs Novell, etc. documents published on Groklaw. Those cases are still in pre-trial motions (not necessarily still in pre-trial discovery, even if SCO would wish it so).

Regardless, Comes vs Microsoft was actually in the trial phase. There were jurors and everything!

IANAL as well.

Re:Is there someone at Archive.org we can ask why?

[Jon_S]

According to MathFox on Groklaw (sitting in for PJ during her health break - we hope that's all it is),

"These documents are all public domain materials by order of the judge in the case."

Re:Is there someone at Archive.org we can ask why?

[Animaether]

shhh... quit confusing the conspiracy theorists with things that are logical.

It wouldn't surprise me if a similar policy exists for sites that are put entirely behind passwords, such as the site involved here: www.iowaconsumercase.org .

Re:Is there someone at Archive.org we can ask why?

[BeProf]

> Regardless, Comes vs Microsoft was actually in the trial phase. There were jurors and everything!

In that case they should be public record unless sealed. Feel free to call the court in question and ask them for information on how to get those records.

Re:Is there someone at Archive.org we can ask why?

[jackbird]

The evidence submitted to the court as part of a motion or transcript is public domain, not the items themselves. Otherwise any copyright could be nullified simply by initiating a lawsuit, and any rights holder that sued would automatically nullify their own copyright.

Re:Is there someone at Archive.org we can ask why?

[rbanffy]

We need to MD5 and SHA1 the files so they can't be tampered with (or, at least, we can easily show which ones were).

Better yet, do it with the files themselves and then with the archive, so nobody can spread fake versions.

Re:Is there someone at Archive.org we can ask why?

[burndive]

Isn't anything entered into evidence in a civil or criminal proceeding automatically part of the public domain?

Public record, yes, at least by default. A judge can seal evidence. Public domain, no. Using copyrighted material as evidence in a trial does nothing to the copyright. Imagine the legal mayhem that this would cause if it were not so.

Re:Is there someone at Archive.org we can ask why?

[gojomo]

The Internet Archive's Web Archiving Blog has a post, "Confusion at The Register and Slashdot about the Wayback Machine", which addresses some of the concerns in this article and thread.

[Just a pointer; my posts here are me speaking as myself, and not for the Archive.]

- Gordon

Relax, theres no conspiracy

[Timesprout]

MS were just uploading all their documentation to Google Apps.

As John Gilmore (from EFF) wisely said

[vivaoporto]

"The internet interprets censorship as damage, and routes around it"

MS Dirty Tricks

[rhets]

Is that packaged with Vista Ultimate?

Re:MS Dirty Tricks

[Dr Caleb]

No, it's packaged with "Windows Vista: Total World Domination" edition.

Looking for hosting?

[widemos]

They know what P2P is... don't?

some of archive on piratebay

[wherrera]

Seach PirateBay for a torrent called 'iowa'

Re:some of archive on piratebay

[L. VeGas]

Seach PirateBay for a torrent called 'iowa'


I would, but I would probably get sued by RIAA for supposedly downloading Iowa State Marching Band songs or something.

Re:some of archive on piratebay

[teh_chrizzle]

I would, but I would probably get sued by RIAA[...]

go for it, the odds of getting pinched for a torrent on TBP are about as good as the odds of winning the lottery.

I have 1.6GB of the best stuff

[Anonymous Coward]

where shall i send it, and by what means?

$ du --si
23M ./attachments
11M ./www.iowaconsumercase.org/011207
154M ./www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/0000
108M ./www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/1000
93M ./www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/2000
173M ./www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/3000
265M ./www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/4000
152M ./www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/5000
118M ./www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/6000
126M ./www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/7000
119M ./www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/8000
94M ./www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/9000
1.5G ./www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607
12M ./www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607p2
619k ./www.iowaconsumercase.org/01162007
13M ./www.iowaconsumercase.org/011707
5.8M ./www.iowaconsumercase.org/011807
3.8M ./www.iowaconsumercase.org/011907
1.2M ./www.iowaconsumercase.org/012307
10M ./www.iowaconsumercase.org/012507
1.6G ./www.iowaconsumercase.org
1.6G .

Re:I have 1.6GB of the best stuff

[shudde]

Personally I'd put it on the darknets, Tor and Freenet both have sites dedicated to preserving unpopular/threatened/censored information. I'd imagine that I2P would have similar resources although I'm not personally familiar with it.

While darknet sites aren't reachable by the average computer users, this allows the more technically-minded to repopulate the mainstream net with the content when torrents or public hosts are taken down.

Re:I have 1.6GB of the best stuff

[shudde]

Slight correction: Tor isn't technically a darknet.

Please, for the love of Pete

[vyrus128]

Forget hosting and start Bittorrenting the documents! They're almost certainly public record at this point, so it's not like MS can prosecute you for it. If you're really worried about that, dump them on Freenet. These documents are critical historical records -- they need to be distributed as widely as possible.

is this it?

[metroplex]

This appears to be it http://torrents.thepiratebay.org/hashtorrent/36201 52.torrent/iowa.3620152.TPB.torrent 2.58 Gb rar archive split in 31 parts.

Re:is this it?

[LordSnooty]

2.58 Gb rar archive split in 31 parts.

Haha, it's just a repost from Usenet.

Re:is this it?

[hcdejong]

A bit OT, but..

Why, oh why, do people RAR and split an archive, then offer it as one big download anyway ?

The only upside I can see is that when StuffIt decodes the RAR I get to see its 'estimated time to unpack the archive' of 2938757659 hours (an amusing bug, considering that it then takes a few seconds to unpack an archive).

GrokLaw has it

[HaeMaker]

Groklaw has the entire archive.

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200702200 83801959

MS Dirty Tricks?

[BoRegardless]

That is news? Ballmer blasting companies that say or post things he doesn't like is news?

This is starting to sound like Anna Nicole in a way, but it is neat to see Slashdotters responding with their own caches of materials & Ballmer will not be able to do a cover up.

Managing MS must be a real pain for Ballmer at this point. He & Billy Gates probably spend far more time trying to fend off issues & competition than they ever spend on "innovations".

Re:MS Dirty Tricks?

[calciphus]

Neither of them spend any time on "innovations" - they're in management.

I personnaly think that...

[alexandreracine]

... "MS" and "Dirty Tricks" should always be in the same sentence.

Offtopic - really...

[djupedal]

I've harbored strict disdain for MS's penchant for rewriting history for many years. That's my opinion & I'm sticking to it blah, blah, blah... Who but MS would be behind pushing to take 'dirty tricks' offline? Why is it they retain their stripes and heavy-handedness in today's flash-react internet where a corporations' past is never more than a few clicks away? When will MS learn to stop pulling stunts and take the high road? Rhetorical questions, all, and one of the main reasons behind my brief and opinionated comment.

So I was brief - big deal. Sorry if brevity of opinion ticks off the MS crowd (not), but I see nothing in the rules that says brevity is cause for being modded down - fp or no. Do I feel pain for the slackjaws that need everything spelled o u t? Ummm..not today, sorry.

Mod how you like, but slapping 'offtopic' on something that isn't, is weak...really weak. So go right ahead. Waste your mod points, I'll wear 'em like a badge :)

Re:Offtopic - really...

[kabocox]

I've harbored strict disdain for MS's penchant for rewriting history for many years.

Oh, come on anyone with enough power/money/social status has history rewritten to their benefit when they know that their is an account out their that puts them in a negative light. It's a basic human trait. What's the big shock that MS is trying to do what every human org has always done?

Re:Offtopic - really...

[djupedal]

"What's the big shock that MS is trying to do what every human org has always done?"

Did I say it was something new to mankind? Did I say I was aghast? Talk about rewriting history - thanks for the demo :)

Problem is, MS, uses it as a primary business model, over and over again - steal idea; pose as owner; profit (Alcatel ring a bell?). ...that and the fact that, yes, it is such an old and tiring tactic (as you imaginatively ran up the flag pole), as we all know. Reminds me now as being similar in slime-style to those 'firms' trawling patent databases with rapid-fire lawsuits in the hope a startled target will knee-jerk into writing a check without even stopping to realize they have nothing to worry about.

Ok? All clear now?

Thanks for taking a run at me, but you may need to learn less weak debating skills if you want to have your own little woodie and moment of fame at another's expense (just like MS) - better luck next time.

haven't you heard?

[game kid]

Vista Ultimate comes with everything.

Hell, if I buy fifty of those limited-edition Bill Gates-signed numbered copies, I'd probably get a nymphomaniac Alessandra Ambrosio clone and a pony for free, rush-delivered.

(hey, at the total price, it might even be possible...)

PJ is back

[SpaceLifeForm]

Link

As of this morning.

Watch out now...

[BlueScreenOfTOM]

networkBoy writes with word
See, there's your problem right there... writing about Microsoft conspiracies with Word...

paging Winston Smith

[frankie]

What are you talking about? We have ALWAYS been allied with Redmond^H^H^H^HEastasia. You should hand-deliver these purported documents to the Records Department for proper archival.

Boycott...

[gamer4Life]

Knowing that Microsoft has overcharged me on it's products due it's monopoly, and the fact that it uses anti-competitive tactics to keep it's monopoly has made me insistent on not buying it's products unless it's absolutely necessary.

That's a major reason why I won't buy the XBox 360. The gaming industry is just another Microsoft monopoly forming.

Anyone have the mirror?

[WhiteWolf666]

I'd consider hosting it, at least on a dreamhost shared hosting account. Cost is minimal, and I've got a separate account for my personal stuff, and ~2 TB of monthly bandwidth, which should be plenty for text ;-)

Send me an e-mail at moornblade at gmail dot com

Re:Anyone have the mirror?

[dubonbacon]

These are not text, they are Scanned PDF for a total of a couple hundred MB.

Internet Archive Trust

[Nom du Keyboard]

If the Internet Archive did this, I'll never trust them again as either impartial, or accurate. And I'd surely never give them any money.

Re:Internet Archive Trust

[frogstar_robot]

IA is notorious for whimping out. They let the Scientologists bully them. xenu.net has the dope on that.

ANOTHER OFF-TOPIC -- WGA Notification is BACK

[HermMunster]

Microsoft has rereleased the WGA notification program for XP. It went live yesterday. It is masquerading as a security critical update again. This time it has an installer so you are prompted and can cancel but you'll continuously be prompted unless you flag it as a _never install_ update.

All tied up in knots, that's all I got

[Eternal Vigilance]

I'd probably get a nymphomaniac Alessandra Ambrosio clone and a pony

Whoa, kinky. Apparently Bill's now into more than just *marketplace* Dominance.

Though I guess I should have known from Vista's heavy emphasis on DRM. ("Digital restrictions" is just polite language for "data bondage." Only thing missing from the whole scene is the leather mask, really.)

I wonder what kind of "dirty tricks" Alessandra's clone performs? For that matter...how about the pony?


Wilbur? Wilbur?

Re:(EP?!

[neminem]

shoot blog web comic piss COCK time cube all your base are belong to what is this some kind of saying random stuff I usE a RANDOM number GOD bling [this is a link to some stuff] you should watch utube microsoft can think of nothing yahoo images ?

Ahahahh...TORRENT!!

[bmo]

Here you go:

http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3620152/iowa

I am seeding. Please make the swarm bigger.

--
BMO

Absolutely necessary?

[Mateo_LeFou]

Last time I checked, MS did not produce food, water, or shelter. When they do, it'll probably be awhile before they're the *only source of those things...

Groklaw Down

[irishatheist]

Would I be paranoid in thinking someone stuck a spanner into the back of the server?