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Patent Office Head Lays Out Reform Strategy

jeevesbond writes to tell us that Jon Dudas, the Under Secretary of Commerce for Intellectual Property and Director of the US Patent and Trademark Office has laid out a plan for patent reform. "Speaking at the Tech Policy Summit in San Jose, Dudas said that characterizing the patent system as hurting innovation is a 'fundamentally wrong' way to frame the debate. 'I have traveled around the world, and every nation is thinking how it can model [intellectual property governance] after the U.S,' Dudas said. 'It's a proven system, over 200 years old. The Supreme Court, Congress and policy makers are involved [in cases and legal reforms] not because the system is broken. It's not perfect, and we should be having the debate on how to improve.'"

33 of 253 comments (clear)

  1. Just a few things by fyngyrz · · Score: 5, Insightful
    See any serious problems with this story?

    Other than the fact that this guy is out of his bloody mind?

    Software patents: totally ridiculous, and putting a huge hurt on an area that should be boiling with creativity. Creatively speaking, this time in our history offers more creative ground and lower barriers to entry than ever before in our history. The primary barrier, aside from your own intellectual resources, is the patent system. It is a barrier to creativity, and furthermore, it is a barrier to progress.

    Hardware patents: First guy with the money into the patent system and with the wherewithal to defend the patent wins. Nothing to do with the actual inventor; totally centered about money. Anything wrong with that? Only that it suppresses any inventor without corporate backing, which ought to be a crime in and of itself.

    And oh yeah, the other inventor(s) who worked on this? A second late to file, and they are well and truly locked out. Is that fair? Is that even slightly fair?

    The US patent system is a well of misery, corporate bootlicking, and "let's crush the little guy" methodologies. Sure, everyone else looks to the US system, because it is a system designed to turn over money, not encourage innovation. The fact that it manages to encourage at least corporations to innovate can be considered a side effect. It certainly isn't the main goal of the system, which is to feed the legal profession a regular set of juicy, meaty bones.

    I'll tell you what is "fundamentally wrong"; The US patent system is fundamentally wrong. Why? Because it is a system that guarantees that anyone but the 1st to the gate is hammered; because it is a system that guarantees that anyone without deep pockets cannot actually be protected (read, encouraged) by the system; because it discourages innovation. The number of devices/programs you can actually create without running smack into someone's fool patent is very near zero. So much for encouraging innovation. Now lawyers... they are encouraged. Oh yes. Very much so.

    The copyright system isn't doing a lot better, but that's a different issue, somewhat.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:Just a few things by AndersOSU · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think software patents are a good thing, so I'm not going to argue with you there. But hardware should be patentable - it is a real physical devise, and provided it does something novel and non-obvious, the R&D investment should be protected. In the rare case that individuals independently discover something - tough luck if you didn't think of it first - that is the way it works.

      You seem to be mistaken as to how the US patent system works. The US operates under a first-inventor principle, which means that it isn't the guy who makes it to the office with the money first that gets the rights. Not that first-inventor isn't without problems, but the race to the patent office isn't one of them.

      The US system is most certainly broken, but clearly not in the ways you think it is. I'm looking forward to reading the article, but it appears slashdotted. IMHO the biggest problem with the current state of the patent office is the rubber stamping of obvious and trivial inventions.

    2. Re:Just a few things by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think hardware patents seem to work quite well

      Do you have any reason for this belief?

      Patent law is an economic tweak that is intended to "promote innovation". It's possible to see if it's really doing that, and if it isn't then it obviously should go away. Even if it does promote innovation, that still doesn't mean it's a good idea - like any economic choice it has a benifit and a cost, and the cost should be looked at closely and frequently for any country-wide economic policy decision.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    3. Re:Just a few things by tambo · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Other than the fact that this guy is out of his bloody mind?

      This guy does have some issues. Some of his reform ideas are universally and vociferously panned. For instance, he wants applicants to "designate" a few patent claims that will be examined - and the rest of the claims aren't, so that the patent issues with completely unexamined claims. Very bad idea.

      Then there's this comment: "It's a proven system, over 200 years old..." - Anyone even tangentially involved in the patent system should know, off the top of their head, that the current system really goes back only to either 1836, which re-introduced the idea of patent examination, and that the modern system of peripheral patent claiming (probably the defining element of patent prosecution) only dates to somewhere between the patent acts of 1870 and 1952. What we had before 1836 was patent registration, which was a hideous mess. No one involved in the patent system should be making such mistaken characterizations... let alone the head of the USPTO.

      But the rest of your comments are spurious. For instance: Software patents: totally ridiculous, and putting a huge hurt on an area that should be boiling with creativity.

      Are you seriously suggesting that software isn't boiling with creativity? Look at everything Google is doing, and all of the Linux distros, and all of the stuff on SourceForge. Look at the rapid development of Web 2.0 apps in the last two years. Look at the rate of deployment of software across a huge range of devices, from 64-bit super-pipelined machines to UMPCs to dinky cellphone processors. What part of this is "crippled?" Software development is limited only by the rate of our collective imagination. Patents aren't hampering anything.

      First guy with the money into the patent system and with the wherewithal to defend the patent wins. Nothing to do with the actual inventor; totally centered about money. Anything wrong with that? Only that it suppresses any inventor without corporate backing, which ought to be a crime in and of itself.

      You are misinformed.

      Sole inventors have the power to defend their inventions - all they have to do is to publish them. If they were truly the first inventors, their publications will trump any second inventor's attempt to patent it! Any such patents will be invalidated by their publication - see 35 USC 102(a). True, they will not have the benefit of a patent monopoly - but they didn't pay for that privilege.

      And oh yeah, the other inventor(s) who worked on this? A second late to file, and they are well and truly locked out. Is that fair? Is that even slightly fair?

      Thomas Jefferson certainly thought so. In fact, he thought it was important enough to include in the U.S. Constitution. You are welcome to take it up with him in the afterlife.

      The US patent system is a well of misery, corporate bootlicking, and "let's crush the little guy" methodologies.

      Again, you are misinformed. Patents are too expensive to assert against "little guys." Patents are almost solely used by large corporations against other large corporations. In practice, the "little guys" - sole inventors - are almost never accused with patent infringement. Why bother? It's too expensive, and there's no benefit for the corporation.

      The copyright system, on the other hand, is deeply diseased and deeply in need of reform. The RIAA's antics are proof positive of that.

      - David Stein

      --
      Computer over. Virus = very yes.
    4. Re:Just a few things by tambo · · Score: 3, Interesting
      IMHO the biggest problem with the current state of the patent office is the rubber stamping of obvious and trivial inventions.

      Your opinion is well-founded. I wouldn't exactly call it rubber-stamping, though. The problem is that examiners aren't being given enough resources to do their jobs. In particular, examiners are being hugely pressured with productivity metrics: they have to turn around (x) applications per year, or they get reprimanded or even fired. And one of the key proponents of this system is the very same Jon Dudas. The result is that patent examiners are demoralized and overburdened, so examination suffers - which hurts everyone (including the patentee.)

      A better patent examination system will help everyone. This requires giving examiners more resources so that they can do their jobs better... and, perhaps, some more respect, so that their morale remains high.

      - David Stein

      --
      Computer over. Virus = very yes.
    5. Re:Just a few things by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I was under the impression that patent law was intended to protect intellectual property.

      In that case, you are confused.

      It doesn't surprise me that there are people confused about this topic, because certain special interest groups have been promoting the inaccurate "intellectual property is like real property" view for a while now - with the specific intention of creating this sort of confusion.

      Patent law in the United States has a very clear history, going back to a section of the United States constitution:

      In Section 8, Congress is granted the power...
      To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

      Thus, at least in the United States, patents exist for the express purpose of "promoting the progress of Science and the Useful Arts".

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    6. Re:Just a few things by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My argument would probably start with The Tragedy of the Anti-Commons.

      The fact is, I don't know if patents on physical devices are a good idea or not, but I don't think that assuming that it is a good idea because it hasn't completely stopped the production of new devices is a good place to start.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    7. Re:Just a few things by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Interesting

      What clear standard would you suggest they apply to the system to weed out the good from the bad?

      I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It's really simple. You test for obviousness in a way that avoids false "non-obvious" rulings due to obscurity of the problem. To test for good patents, you send out a description of the patent to a dozen people in the field. If any of them comes up with a solution that is basically comparable to your solution within a reasonable period of time, the patent should be rejected with no possibility for appeal.

      In the case of software patents, outside certain complex algorithmic areas like digital signal processing, almost everything is inherently obvious if the problem is stated clearly. The only thing non-obvious is usually the problem itself. A patent should never be granted based solely on spotting the problem first. It should be granted based on finding a unique solution to the problem that isn't obvious. More to the point, there should be at least one other way to solve the problem. If none of the examiners come up with another way to solve the problem, then they are not sufficiently skilled in the subject area to have solved the problem, and thus are not qualified to evaluate the patent. If there truly is only one way to solve a problem, then it should not be patentable.

      For example, it's a hundred years ago. The problem is that you don't have an eraser around when you have a pencil. Two possible solutions might come to mind: a pencil box with an eraser area and a pencil with an eraser built in. Your typical person skilled in woodworking and making pencils probably won't think of the second one even if you present them with the problem because the alternative solutions are more obvious, though less desirable. There's a third way. Make the outside of the pencil out of rubber. This avoids the eraser-on-the-end patent. So there is provably another solution. As such, the pencil with eraser on the end should be patentable.

      As for patents on algorithmic stuff like DSP, that's really all applied mathematics, and should not be patentable. The law says that algorithms cannot be patented, but these corporations skirt around the law by claiming that it is a "process" for implementing the algorithm rather than an algorithm. Since there is usually only one way to implement the algorithm, however, it becomes effectively a patent on the algorithm. As far as I'm concerned, such blatant abuse of this poorly written law should be abolished outright. The only way to do that is to abolish software patents.

      The biggest problem with the patent system, though, is duration. If you do not abolish software patents, the patent should have a very short expiration date because the field of software is a rapidly growing field which is quite clearly being stifled by patents. A two or three year duration is the absolute maximum reasonable time for a software patent. Twenty years is laughable. Outside of obscure specialty software like banking systems, twenty years from now, no piece of software that is currently in use will still be in use in any identifiable way. Twenty years ago, we had Windows 2.0, MS-DOS, Mac OS System 2, the Apple IIgs was popular, Atari made computers, the Commodore 128D, and the Amiga 2000. Out of all of those, only two are in some small way the ancient ancestors of something we still use, and even those share no real code in common and show only the barest hint of UI similarity to their successors.

      Even in computer hardware, there may be some advantage to shorter patent durations because of the speed at which the industry is changing. However, at the same time, there is little opportunity for new companies or individuals in fields like microprocessor design anyway due to the huge startup costs. In software, where the cost of development is strictly the time consumed, the constant influx of new blood is what keeps the industry innovating, and when you have people saying, "I'd wrote a free app that d

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    8. Re:Just a few things by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Are you seriously suggesting that software isn't boiling with creativity? Look at everything Google is doing, and all of the Linux distros, and all of the stuff on SourceForge. Look at the rapid development of Web 2.0 apps in the last two years. Look at the rate of deployment of software across a huge range of devices, from 64-bit super-pipelined machines to UMPCs to dinky cellphone processors. What part of this is "crippled?" Software development is limited only by the rate of our collective imagination. Patents aren't hampering anything.

      So by your logic, because innovation still occurs, innovation is not being stifled. By that same logic, because I and all of my coworkers successfully drove to work this morning, I can conclude that there were no traffic accidents in the Bay Area, and that driving is completely safe. Am I understanding correctly? I'm sure there's a name for this logical fallacy. Ah. Here it is.argumentum ad ignorantiam. So I'll attack that logical fallacy by simply providing the needed proof.

      Google is a corporation. They are inherently somewhat shielded from patents by virtue of their own portfolio and their ability to defend themselves. Web 2.0 apps are only happening because nobody has started suing in that area. If another Amazon one-click patent bit users of AJAX, we'd see a major chilling effect outside of the corporate space.

      Linux distros? IBM defending themselves from SCO. Microsoft claiming that Linux infringes on their patents. Though they haven't sued, that doesn't mean people aren't getting uncomfortable.

      And then, there are the lawsuits over MP3. Bets on whether either of those impact Ogg Vorbis, anyone? They're pretty broad.... And how many extra years did Vorbis take because they were trying to dodge the patent minefield? How much other software that you use every day either costs more because the company had to license some BS patent or defend against it? How much other software that you use every day took longer to release because they had to spend extra effort to avoid some BS patent?

      In practice, the "little guys" - sole inventors - are almost never accused with patent infringement. Why bother? It's too expensive, and there's no benefit for the corporation.

      While that is true, that doesn't mean that the little guys don't worry about it. And if the little guys are worrying about it, they are avoiding doing things out of fear of getting sued, and that is stifling innovation even if those fears are not justified.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    9. Re:Just a few things by tambo · · Score: 4, Informative
      Something I've never quite understood is how it is determined that an invention is "innovative". ... Is it voted upon? Or is it a single guy, following some guidelines?

      It's guidelines-based - but those guidelines go back to the first patent act, passed in 1790. (This was a short three years after the adoption of the Constitution, so IP obviously held a very high priority for our first federal government.)

      The guidelines are, essentially, three:

      1. The invention has to be one of the statutory classes - according to the first patent act, an "art, manufacture, engine, machine, or device." This summary has stood virtually intact for 217 years: today's version (35 USC 101) reads: "process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter." If it's not one of those, then it's not useful and not patentable.
      2. The invention has to be new - it has to be novel and non-obvious. If it's just a rehash of known technology, then it's not "useful" enough to warrant a patent.
      3. The invention has to be complete, to the point where the description can teach others how to apply it. The used here is that it must be "described in sufficient detail to permit a person having ordinary skill in the art to which the invention pertains to make and use the invention without undue experimentation." (Long-winded, yes, but it's a good concept.)
      So that's a pretty good level of guidance as to what's "useful." The only tweak on all of this is that, according to the Supreme Court (Diamond v. Chakrabarty), these limitations are to be read expansively; i.e., the patent system should err on the side of breadth. In their (unusually eloquent) rhetoric, the Court held that the system is intended to include "anything under the sun that is made by man" in its scope. So you should be able to get a patent on anything that meets, at least basically, these requirements.

      That's the theory. The practice is even more rigorous, because the patent process is onerous: expensive, protracted, somewhat uncertain. The pragmatic answer is that "useful" is partially determined by the inventor's subjective assessment of its value. The inventor makes a value judgment: is the invention sufficiently "useful" to warrant the hassle and cost?

      - David Stein

      --
      Computer over. Virus = very yes.
    10. Re:Just a few things by falconwolf · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Really? I was under the impression that patent law was intended to protect intellectual property. In the same way that real estate law is intended to protect greographical property.

      Patent law may be this way or it may not be, however patents themself are meant to encourage progress:

      USA Constitution:
      Section 8 - Powers of Congress
      To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

      Thomas Jefferson was originally against patents but then his friend James Madison convinced him patents could encourage progress. Once convinced Jefferson sat down with an actuary table and calculated a patent term of 14 year with one 14 year extension possible was the optimum length they should last.

      Falcon
  2. Yes the key debate is like that over here in Europ by MemoryDragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But only because US companies push a lot of money into the political chains to push the broken patent system of gentech and software upon the rest of the world. It is a shame what is going on here in Europe, the affected polticians dont even try to hide on who's paylist they indirectly are.

  3. Try recent evidence maybe? by saskboy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "It's a proven system, over 200 years old."

    Using that logic, we should all be using horses as our primary mode of transportation. Just look how proven and older that locomotion model is!

    Why don't we use evidence from the world since the Internet was invented, and base our new system upon the modern world?

    --
    Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
    1. Re:Try recent evidence maybe? by pavon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In addition, I am very sceptical of the claim that countries are modeling their laws after ours because it is a proven system. I'd wager that it has more to do with being required to have IP laws which are simular to the US and Old Europe in order to participate in various trade groups and treaties.

    2. Re:Try recent evidence maybe? by Red+Flayer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What about our current Constitution? It's over 200 years old and a proven system. Would you replace it and start from scratch as well?
      Yes, yes I would. The Constitution is no longer a living document, and it doesn't reflect the current (in)capacity of Americans to govern ourselves. It is designed for less than 30,000:1 federal governance ratio -- it's the lack of accountability due to massive accretion of power in a few hands that has destroyed any semblance of non-corporate control.

      What we need to do is rebuild the system from scratch, forcing the huge government bureaucracy and the corporate masters it serves to re-entrench itself whilst under REAL citizen oversight*.

      *I know, if wishes were horses, beggars would ride. But I still think that a ratio of 6.*10^5 people to 1 representative is phenomenally oversized. Let alone an average of 3*10^6 : 1 for the Senate.
      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  4. Gamasutra and per-patent fees by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Gamasutra had a good article on this recently. The thing that caught my eye was that the patent office is supported by fees collected for each patent application. They had a signed framed that read Our Patent Mission: To Help Our Customers Get Patents.

    To me, that speaks volumes. Any system with an incentive to do crazy things, tends to do crazy things over time. In this case, the goal is to get as many patents issued as possible, so that more people patent odd things and more money flows into the patent office. Break that incentive and people might start behaving rationally again.

    1. Re:Gamasutra and per-patent fees by AndersOSU · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not a chance. The patent game is being played by major corporations firing volleys of offensive and defensive patents at each other. They are certainly not swayed by the fee structure of the patent office, they spend far far more money on their corporate lawyers. The way to break the cycle is to stop granting stupid patents.

    2. Re:Gamasutra and per-patent fees by Floritard · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This was mentioned in a computers in modern society course I splept through in college. Something about the government shutting off funding to the patent office and telling it to fund itself. I believe this happened fairly recently, as in almost coincident with the widespread practice of patenting software. What timing...

  5. Tiny correction... by muecksteiner · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have traveled around the world, and every nation is thinking how it can model [intellectual property governance] after the U.S.

    should probably read

    every nation that we can strong-arm into accepting our rules is modelling its IP governance after the U.S.

    If he were honest, that is.

    But not being a particularly honest person was probably a job requirement for his position, though.

    A.

  6. Yah, right by pembo13 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    'I have traveled around the world, and every nation is thinking how it can model [intellectual property governance] after the U.S,' Dudas said.

    Nice spin. I think he means nations are afraid of not modeling their system after the US since the US has proven time and time again that whatever needs to be done to have their way will be done.

    --
    "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    1. Re:Yah, right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Have you ever considered the US may be right every single time. Its for the best. Wait till we get you off the metric system.

  7. Well... by C_Kode · · Score: 4, Insightful

    'I have traveled around the world, and every nation is thinking how it can model [intellectual property governance] after the U.S,' Dudas said. 'It's a proven system, over 200 years old.

    Just because it's a proven system over 200 years old, doesn't mean it still functions today the way it was intended 200 years ago. Hell, I don't bank the way I did five years ago. Times change and a huge part of why it doesn't work is that almost everything has changed along with it.

    Life's parameters change. When that happens the algorithm that governs it sometimes must change too.

  8. Bullshit! by judd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "every nation is thinking how it can model [intellectual property governance] after the U.S"

    Other nations are thinking about it because of heavy pressure from the US to comply with the US model. That pressure comes in turn from lobbying of US govt by US businesses. In no way are other countries spontaneously saying "Hey, what a neat model!" Absent US pressure for trade agreements etc we would keep the status quo, or even free up current regimes.

  9. World = Where exactly ? by CmdrGravy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have traveled around the world, and every nation is thinking how it can model [intellectual property governance] after the U.S Aparently he hasn't visited the UK or the EU lately then who, as read on ./ earlier this week, are moving to specifically prevent software patents.

    If I were a betting man, and I bet you I'm not, I'd say he's spoken to people throughout the world who already agree that much tighter intellectual property laws are required who may coincidentally talk a lot to large corporations, many of which may be US based, who would like to protect their profits and don't have any reason to consider the social side of intellectual property legislation.

    Also to say that the rest of the world is currently so awestruck with the benefits brought by US intellectual property legislation as it currently is wouldn't appear to be a good reason for suggesting changes to that legislation.
  10. Correction by organgtool · · Score: 3, Insightful

    'I have traveled around the world, and [every corporation in] every nation is thinking how it can model [intellectual property governance] after the U.S,' Dudas said. 'It's a proven system, over 200 years old.'
    There, I "truthified" what Dudas was trying to say. Regarding the part about the patent system being proven for the past 200 years, software has only been involved in that system for a few decades and it has hardly been "proven." Maybe by "proven" he meant flooding the courts with frivolous lawsuits over patents that should never have been granted in the first place.
  11. 200 years? It's closer to twenty. by Jaywalk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's a proven system, over 200 years old.
    You might want to check up on your history. Parts of the patent system may be a couple of centuries old, but software patents aren't in that class. Until 1980 the Patent Office didn't allow software patents at all until it was forced to do so by the Supreme Court. Even that wasn't really a "software patent" in the sense that Amazon's one-click patent is; it was just a computer program that was part of a larger invention. Unfortunately this bone-headed decision has blurred the long-established principle that ideas can't be patented. Since computer code is basically just the instantiation of an idea, software patents make ideas patentable. That has led to further deterioration by allowing things like business methods to be patented. So now you even have these clowns claiming that story plot lines can be patented.

    The "200 year old" system he's bragging about worked fine. It's the recent introduction of changes to that system which have caused the problems.

    --
    ===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
  12. Favorite Quote FTA by paladinwannabe2 · · Score: 5, Informative

    With the more open environment, companies and individuals could more easily game system, loading up examiners with more and more information from friendly or unfriendly parties. "We certainly can't allow having more information come in and harrassing the applicant, and we can't hold up the timing of application processing," Dudas said.
    Because when you're trying to get a patent approved, the last thing you need is people pointing out the prior art, or people double checking your 'facts'- those things are harrassment and hold up the timing of application processing!
    --
    You are reading a copy of my copyrighted post.
  13. Drug Patents by TheWoozle · · Score: 3, Interesting

    While we're at it, maybe we can also deal with one area where patents work *too* well: drug patents.

    The problem with drug patents isn't that they stifle innovation: it's that they encourage the *wrong sort* of innovation. After the patent on a useful and effective drug expires, it is quickly manufactured as a generic and profitability drops (which is exactly what the point of a patent is in the first place). Great.

    The problem comes in when drug companies spend their R&D on creating new drugs that treat the exact same conditions as already existing drugs - just because they'll have another patent and therefore another (however short-lived) monopoly on the drug, which equals large profits.

    --
    Insisting on "correct" English is like saying that there is only one, definitive recipe for chili.
  14. Hardware is't really that different by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Why is hardware really different? These days so much hardware is designed in a very similar way to how software is designed.... You get an idea, sit at a work station, pull up part specs etc and draw schematics. You then run suimulations -- pretty much like how you'd test code. Then once you have a design that appears to work, send it off for a trial build. No real stuff "hard stuff" involved so far.

    Sure, when you get the hard stuff back, you have something tangible.

    Here's the kicker though. If you get a patent, then you're protecting the **idea**, not a physical board. At the stage in the process when the ideas emerged (ie. design), there was no "hard stuff" involved. I don't really think that there is a case to treat sw and hw patents differently.

    The biggest problem with software patents is that they are examined badly. Being able to spot really novel software is very difficult, but the same applies to, say, a hardware motor driver circuit.

    And, for the record, I design both hardware and software.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
    1. Re:Hardware is't really that different by PitaBred · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But hardware requires much more of an upfront materials investment. They both require time, but only one is infinitely easy to replicate.

    2. Re:Hardware is't really that different by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you get a patent, then you're protecting the **idea**, not a physical board.

      Nope. That absolutely is not how the Founders intended the patent system work. You're confusing concept and implementation. Put it this way, there was a damned good reason why the Patent Office used to require a working prototype of any device that for which a patent application had been made.

      In the past, you could have an idea, but you could only patent a particular realization of that idea. Others could take the exact same idea, implement it in a sufficiently different or novel way, and receive an equally-valid patent. That worked very well (for a bloody long time) and it encouraged inventors to look beyond the obvious and find other (often better!) ways of realizing the same fundamental ideas.

      The key to that, however, is specificity, narrowness. It was never, ever intended that anyone or any company could control every possible realization of a single idea. That, unfortunately, is exactly what the U.S. patence office allows, if it is true that other countries are modelling their IP laws after our present system, well, that's good. They'll be just as screwed up as we are.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  15. Let me tell you what I know... by Kadin2048 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I know a guy who worked as an examiner at the patent office. It's basically like working on a factory assembling line. Everything is based off of how many applications you can process. I think that new examiners are expected to do 2 or 3 patents a week, if you want to stay ahead and get promoted. Don't do your quota, you don't get promoted, and maybe eventually you get fired (but it's a government operation so let's not get too ridiculous here).

    But basically, 2 or 3 patents need to cross your desk a week, and either be accepted or sent back. That means you can give each one maybe two days. That's two days to do all the research, and look for all the prior art, and make a judgment call. That's nothing on some of these patents, which can be hugely technical, particularly when the people filing them can take all the time they want to obfuscate their intentions and tweak the language to make them as broad as possible.

    And here's the best part: if an examiner rejects a patent and sends it back to the applicant, and then the applicant sends it back in with updates, that updated application doesn't count towards the examiner's quota. So there's an obvious advantage towards accepting applications, because that's the absolutely sure way of getting it off your desk and making sure that it's not going to come back to haunt you later.

    Anyone see anything wrong here?

    --
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  16. patent terms by falconwolf · · Score: 3, Informative

    Once convinced Jefferson sat down with an actuary table and calculated a patent term of 14 year with one 14 year extension possible was the optimum length they should last.

    I'm pretty sure you're confusing patents and copyright. They're different.

    Yes copyrights and patents are different however they both had the same length of duration, 14 years: "a Patent Law (1791) gave inventors exclusive rights to their inventions for 14 years."

    Falcon