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Remote Control To Prevent Aircraft Hijacking
Snad writes "The UK's Evening Standard is reporting that Boeing plans to roll out aircraft remote control systems in a bid to eliminate the threat of terrorist hijackings, and prevent any repetition of the events of September 11 2001. 'Scientists at aircraft giant Boeing are testing the tamper-proof autopilot system which uses state-of-the-art computer and satellite technology. It will be activated by the pilot flicking a simple switch or by pressure sensors fitted to the cockpit door that will respond to any excessive force as terrorists try to break into the flight deck. Once triggered, no one on board will be able to deactivate the system. Currently, all autopilots are manually switched on and off at the discretion of pilots. A threatened airliner could be flown to a secure military base or a commercial airport, where it would touch down using existing landing aids known as 'autoland function'.'"
Won't terrorists instead try and find ways to take over the remote control system? Why limit yourself to simply crashing one plane when you can crash them all.
Basically this turns planes into remote control missiles - and this is a GOOD THING????
I mean to do something like 9/11 you don't even have to be ON the plane???
It seems to make thing MORE dangerous, not less.
-Em
RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
Sorry, maybe next generation. This one isn't even tough enough to get hit with a rubber ball in gym class without crying and suing the school.
ResidntGeek
No remote access allowed to a computer without the administrator password, either.
ResidntGeek
How about locking the f***ing cabin door??!!! Doesn't cost anything, no one gets hijacked. Instead lets make a remote control terminal to fly the plane into a building. Only good old fat government defense contracts can bring us such stupidity. Heck, lets give the contract to Diebold and let the central control program be an Access VBA App on a Windows machine connected to the internet.
Skyhook is a book centered around this concept. The interesting part was that they wouldn't actually deploy this system in commercial aircraft, they'd just have a press release to make people think they had.
(And no, that isn't a referrer link where I get money. I don't know why it has 'ref=')
Autopilot systems that can take off and land large commercial aircraft already exist and are commonly used (they are called "CAT III" autopilots). If a pilot is feeling lazy, all he or she must do is program the flight computer and taxi the aircraft to the runway -- the aircraft will take off, fly, and land at the desired destination without any input from the pilot.
This new system seems to be a way of locking-in the autopilot function so terrorists cannot manually fly the plane after the pilot triggers an alarm. Seems like a good idea to me.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot as always.
Hijackers simply start shooting passengers until they remotely fly him where he wants to go.
Fanatics are irrational by design...
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Successful Hijackings? I guess people are more cowardly than I thought, these days no weapon would keep me in my seat if someone tried to hijack a plane I was a passenger in, I'd rather die fighting than strapped in my seat.
I think the invisible hand of the market has its middle finger extended
--A wise old fart named SC0RN
If we weren't such pussies we would have done what Israel did to Lebanon when Hamas took two guys hostage.
We aren't pussies. Our fearless leader just had other priorities. Rather then rally the country behind him ala FDR after Pearl Harbor he decided to try and use it as an excuse to take down Saddam. Days after 9/11 Bush and Cheney were looking at ways to tie Saddam to the attacks.
FDR desperately wanted war with Nazi Germany but he didn't try to blame Pearl Harbor on them.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
We don't need this. If anything genuinely good came out of 9/11, it's this: passengers will *NOT* sit idly by while a hijacker goes and tries to seize control of an aircraft, as they know that their lives would likely be forfeit anyways if they did. It was a very costly wake-up call, and although I would never go so far as to say it was worth it, I think it's safe bet that no hijacker will ever be able to take control of a passenger aircraft ever again... at least not over USA soil.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
With your idea:
"One passenger dies every minute until the door is unlocked".
Duh.
With the new system:
"One passenger dies every minute until the fancy auto-pilot is turned off".
Another duh.
Any questions, Einstein?
Al Qaeda may prefer to use planes as missiles, but many other terrorist groups still hijack planes the old-fashioned way: They take over the plane and force the pilot to fly them somewhere else. In the US, we are now (since 9/11) far more likely to assume that a hijacker is of the kill everyone, Al Qaeda type, because we have recent and very memorable experience with that sort of hijacker, and no recent experience with the old fashioned kind. This may not be the case in other countries.
Hours, eh? Knock out the hijackers, probably a few casualties, turn off the jammer, remote control reactivated. :)
Boeing has "secretly" patented all sorts of classified technology, as have most companies working in the Defense/Intelligence industries. The classified patent system has been in place for a while. Just because something is patented doesn't mean it's publicly available knowledge.
Our president's intentions to take down Saddam after 9/11 don't change the fact that we, America and probably most of the first world, are pussies. Have you ever been in a fight? I've never been in a fight. I was a gigantic asshole for the last two years high school and never found myself in the slightest danger of receiving even a single punch.
And what's the point? If the powers-that-be had decided to glass Afghanistan do you really think they wouldn't have been able to rally the American people behind it in the days after 9/11? Throw some propaganda in the mix, make the Pearl Harbor comparison (though 9/11 is inherently worse -- Pearl Harbor was a military target) and demand nothing less then total victory. I think you'd be surprised by the American people.
That said, it was all for naught, because from day 1 of being sworn in this administration wanted to go into Iraq.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
They do have "nicer" hijackers over there. Most hijackers don't want to kill themselves and everyone else. As is true for most things, 9/11 didn't change that.
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
United flight 93 would disagree with you, 9/11 happened because up to then almost all plane hijackings led to few if any casualties. If you cooperated then you'd all likely leave alive and if you didn't you'd likely be causing the death of 200+ people due to your own stupidity. As its been pointed out in other places, the problem is that there is a big difference between stopping terrorists in a plane and regaining control of the plane as again flight 93 illustrated. Contrary to some people terrorists aren't idiots (or geniuses) and its downright stupid to assume they'd even attempt to hijack a plane now instead of simpyl crashing it the first chance they get.
This system would be a lot more effective than a passenger attempt to stop the hijackers.
Couldn't this system make hijacking more likely? Say terrorists take over a plane. Knowing they don't need them, the terrorists kill the pilots. The remote system turns on, and the terrorists say "control, take us to *insert Middle Eastern or African country here* or we start killing hostages every 10 minutes until you turn to heading 180 or what have you... maybe the developers should look into being able to control the displays in planes, but then the terrorists could also carry compasses and maps... it just doesn't sound like a very good idea to me. p.s. -hey terrorists, i have just trademarked that idea so you can't use it.
Why just "terrorism"? Cockpits are at the pointy end of the plane for obvious reason. Which means things like Bird Strike as an example off the top of my head are a real threat to airline safety. Or for some reason the cabin has depressurised and the crew have all black out. Surely such a system could be brought online in any number of situtations where the crews capacity is effected? Sure nothing beats real people for doing the job, but nothing wrong with having back-ups
"Call us when the New age is old enough to drink" Beck
And what's going to happen when certain computer savvy individuals decide to play the Boeing Flight Simulator? AKA. hijacking the control signal to the plane and lock eveyone else out and having fun seeing how many passengers they can make sick... or worse
Who needs progress when you have profits?
wouldn't jump a hijacker with any sort of impressive-looking or effective weapon
Doesn't United 93 kind of prove you wrong there? I still think you are underestimating Americans.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
300 people on a large jumbo-jet vs. 3000+ in an office building in manhattan. I would have taken the 300.
You're not alone in making that calculation. The passengers on the fourth 9/11 hijacked jet came to the same conclusion - even though they themselves were the collection on the light side of the balance.
(IMHO they deserve a posthumous award of the Medal of Freedom.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
If we weren't such pussies we would have done what Israel did to Lebanon when Hamas took two guys hostage.
You mean start a war they were bound to lose/not win and not even catch the original bad guys? I think we're doing a pretty good job of that already.
I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
Is "pussies" another word for "civilized, decent human beings"? If so, then I'm glad that we (and most of the world) are pussies. Violence is an ineffective way to solve problems.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
As a passenger ... and a pilot I think this is a VERY dangerous idea. More so than dealing with the terrorists in other ways.
Let me qualify myself -- I am a hobbyist when it comes to flying. Single and dual engine props are the largest I've ever flown myself, but I know a damn good landing when I see / feel one. Flying "runs in the family" as my brother does it, my father, my grandfather [did, passed away], and my Uncle is a commercial pilot himself. Growing up it was common to go and visit grandpa (or more often have him fly over to us) in the rent-a-plane type club -- why drive and deal with all the traffic? When we wanted to go downtown to the city -- just fly in. I was flying when I was six... Anyway, I digress...
On a recent commercial trip to Hawaii I can remember two specific landings that took place. One was in bad weather and the landing impressed me so much that I waited around to find out who landed the plane. The pilot proudly introduced me to his co-pilot and informed me it was his first real landing as such [flying passengers and not testing / in a simulator]. The other landing scared the hell out of me and within seconds of touching down I looked at my white-knuckled scared wife and said "somethings wrong, we're going off the runway". The weather was calm and clear -- and at the gate the pilot apologized to *everyone* over the PA system and informed us that the landing that took place was done by the emergency autopilot landing system [a scheduled test -- WITH PASSENGERS]. THANK GOD he was able to dis-engage said system and go with a hard left rudder when he did...
Due to that last landing it has been the _last_ commercial flight I've taken (or plan to take). I'll fly myself, thank you.
What do I do for a living? Ironically computer [programming] -- and I know all too well what can (and does) go wrong with these types of computer programs. There is NO WAY that all the bases and/or possibilities could be covered with our computer knowledge today.
I think a bat would last longer when you're beating the shit out of a terrorist. :) Maybe if it was a rubber snake?
There's a far simpler (and less risky) solution - two doors between the flight deck and the main cabin, so that the flight crew can always have a closed door between them and the cabin when they have to leave the cockpit. El Al's been doing this for years, and IIRC, United is on track to do so. If the cockpit can't be stormed, the airliner can't be used as a weapon.
Autopilots malfunction. That's why there's a big red button on every yoke or sidestick (not just on the flight guidance panel) - an autopilot disconnect switch. The thought of having an autopilot that you can't disconnect on every flight of every airliner is just plain scary, probability-wise.
Here's a more likely use for it: The FAA wants to raise the pilot retirement age to 65. You'll need it to land the airplane after the old geezer pilots fall asleep.
Never shake hands with a man you meet in a fertility clinic.
No one cares if a plane is diverted to Algeria. They care if it's flown into the ground or a target, which is of course something the pilots will never do no matter how many passengers are killed, for obvious reasons. Seperating pilot from passenger accomplishes only one thing, but its a very important thing. Namely, it prevents the class of hijackings in which all passengers die, and those are the ones we care about.
Relax I just want some peanuts.
For something *that* secure, I'm sure they're using Vista. I can see it now, "It looks like you're trying to let someone take over your aircraft by remote control. Allow or deny?"
But more seriously, how could a system like that EVER be trusted? M$ spend lots of time and way more money trying to make Vista secure, and it's already cracked. Same for HD-DVD DRM. And if terrorist really can't think of anything better, they can do this:in this case the solution is a social one not a technological one. the most powerful force on a plane are its passengers.
--And what precision! To be able to accurately target a building which is so far away that you can't even see it is amazing. These were guys who couldn't even pass flight school. Sounds like a computer assist to me.
-FL
So what happens if the remote control station gets hijacked?
You're a dumbass. A complete dumbass. If you want a third-party candidate to enter office, vote for a sodding third-party candidate. Don't vote for the lesser of two evils, you're just agreeing to submit to that level of evil.
ResidntGeek
There should be a scale, like the Richter scale for earthquakes, for dumb ideas.
This one would be 11/10.
Hijacks are very, very rare so the effectiveness of this stupid idea is dominated by the failure modes. The obvious failure mode is accidental activation. This will occur much more often than an actual hijack.
So rather than being a solution, it will be just another cause of flight delays.
I think you're underestimating "average" people, especially people who have every reason to believe that their plane is going to be flown into a building (and that they will _all_ die) if they don't do something.
The people on Flight 93 were just "average" people, but when they fully realised the situation they still fought their captors. I don't think that the character of the "average" person has changed that much between now and then.
The US have NEVER been interested in 'heroic' type military actions, of the kind that European nations value. I think it's something to do with the different histories - Europe has a tradition of feudal battles which emphasise 'valiant last-ditch stands' (probably to encourage the knights and house-carles to fight to the last!), while the US looks back to the Indian Wars, where technological imbalance and slaughter were the order of the day.
n refers.
The net result is that for much of its history the US has been an oddly peaceable nation. It has only been interested in fighting wars where it was sure it would easily win. When it does fight a war, US doctrine is to bring overwhelming fire power to bear, and eradicate everything in the vicinity from a distance, while preserving the lives of its own soldiers.
Compare that approach with, say, the British action at Goose Green in the Falklands War, where 600 British soldiers assaulted a well dug in force of over 1000 elite Argentinian troops, in defiance of conventional military practice. Both sides showed extreme bravery - Lt Col H Jones' death while leading a direct charge over open ground up a steep hill to silence machine gun posts was only one of a number of such incidents where soldiers on both sides took actions involving almost certain death. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Goose_Gree
This European ethos looks good in the cinema, so good that Hollywood frequently takes European fighting occurances and transposes them to a US setting (which causes a lot of bad feeling) But I do not think this indicates a 'lack of moral fibre' on the part of the US. It's just a different way of doing things, and, I think, the US can argue that it has a more sensible approach.
If I were to be asked to join an army where we only fought where we had an overwhelming superiority over the enemy, compared to one where we were expected routinely to engage with inferior weaponry, numbers and tactical position and still win, I know which army I would prefer!
Why would they bother disabling it? Threats are for more effective for coercing 'favors' from the authorities and we would be handing a lot of easy hostages to determined terrorists. How would it look for the FAA to allow gruesome death (and worse) to befall little girls on board the flight?
Sounds like a variation on "Die Hard 2". Which is the problem with all these attempts to address "movie plot" senarios. If you don't guess right then the system is utterly useless. The newspaper really needs to talk to someone like Bruce Schneier before running this kind of story.
That leaves the terrorist with a simple question - How do I get hold of the pilot's gun?
I have never understood the American belief that arming people is the royal road to health and sanity. It is universally understood that, if someone is intending to attack, they are overwhelmingly more likely to succeed than someone who is not intending to defend. Arming people just ups the ante in the death stakes.
Incidentally, the moronic partnt poster bendodge is wrong on all fronts - the FBI did a study a little while ago and found that, comparing a man with a holstered gun and a man with a knife ten feet away, the man with the knife won 9 times out of ten. And that was with participants who knew what was going to happen.
Americans live in a little world of their own where movies are more real than reality. You can see that in their foreign policy. The reason Iraq is such a mess is that they really thought the film ended when the white hats won and rode off into the sunset!