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Microsoft Responds to DOT Ban on Vista, Office, IE

roscoetoon writes "From the blog of Mary Jo Foley: What's Microsoft's response to the DOT's charges? A corporate spokeswoman sent this statement, via e-mail: (caution: microbrain double-speak ahead) ... "We respect the customer's decision. As with any of our other Federal customers, it's our job to help DOT maximize the value of its Enterprise Agreement through the adoption of our technology. We are engaged with large, strategic customers across government at every level, and are working closely with them on these products through their participation in our Technical Adoption Programs.""

33 of 218 comments (clear)

  1. Dramatic improvements? by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Windows Vista, Office 2007, and IE7 are widely recognized by independent analysts to offer dramatic improvements in security, management features, new collaboration capabilities and productivity enhancements.
    That's UAC, Ribbons & (still) broken CSS respectively ;-)
    --
    There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    1. Re:Dramatic improvements? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      After the incident on Mars, I will never trust the UAC again.

    2. Re:Dramatic improvements? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Speaking as one of the CIO's in attendance at that event, I was not impressed. Seeing windows try to look like a mac is a wonderful step forward as they embrace the user instead of the function but the UAC is just ridiculous. I can bet less than 20% of our employees will even look at those popups before clicking on anything that makes it go away.

  2. Watch out by Simple-Simmian · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's pr speak for we are going to Congress and MAKE you buy it little man!

    --
    If you don't like what I write don't be a CS and mod it down. Refute it.
    Yea I can't spell. So what is your point?
    1. Re:Watch out by CityZen · · Score: 4, Funny

      Alternate versions:

      -We're going to make them an offer they can't refuse.

      -Once you join the family, you can never leave.

    2. Re:Watch out by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm not sure if anyone should have marked this funny. It seems so close to what is likely to happen that it should be marked insightful (but only because there is no category titled "scary as hell").

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    3. Re:Watch out by rajafarian · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "... it's our job to help DOT maximize the value of its Enterprise Agreement through the adoption of our technology..."

      "You forget, we already have your money."

  3. Really? by zappepcs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    FTFA: "Windows Vista, Office 2007, and IE7 are widely recognized by independent analysts to offer dramatic improvements in security, management features, new collaboration capabilities and productivity enhancements. Ultimately we think we can help DOT understand how these products can help its enterprise organization.

    Q: When did MS start using truly independent analysts? Would that part of the statement be necessary if they had no reputation for using paid shills?

    FTFA: "As DOT goes through the natural process of exploring the new capabilities of these products we expect they will continue to embrace Windows and Office as the departmental standard of DOT.

    Q: Doesn't she mean that "they will eventually be forced to once again drink the koolaid?"

    FTFA: "Overall our government customers are excited about the technology as well as our product pipeline.

    Q: Does anyone else remember that old Chinese curse? "May your life be exciting!"

    FTFA: Just last week more than 500 Public Sector CIOs from across the country joined us for our annual US Public Sector CIO Summit.

    - 500 guests for free food and drink and hopefully cheaper software != 500 new customers.

    FTFA: The Summit offered these CIOs to see firsthand how Microsoft is working to be a strategic partner to government and educational institutions of every size."

    - They obviously didn't spend much time on all the govt. agencies, schools, even countries that are not interested in using MS products anymore. A sales pitch is a sales pitch. I hope they got some good swag!

    1. Re:Really? by JohnnyGTO · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I think thats "May you live in interesting times."

      In a speech in Cape Town, South Africa, on June 7, 1966, Robert F. Kennedy said, "There is a Chinese curse which says, "May he live in interesting times." Like it or not, we live in interesting times..." Journalists picked up the phrase and it has become a commonplace.

      However, the popularity of this "Chinese curse" puzzles Chinese scholars, who have only heard it from Americans. If it is of Chinese origin, it has somehow escaped the literature, although it may be a paraphrase of a liberal translation from a Chinese source, and therefore unrecognizable when translated back to Chinese. It might be related to the Chinese proverb, "It's better to be a dog in a peaceful time than be a man in a chaotic period."

      Stephen DeLong, who has been researching this quotation for several years and details his quest on his own website, has traced the quotation back to a 1950 science fiction story: "U-Turn" by Duncan H. Munro, a pseudonym for Eric Frank Russell.

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
    2. Re:Really? by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 4, Funny

      Did Microsoft actually SAY anything? Yes:
      "We are The Borg, you will comply." It's right there in between the lines.
      --
      Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
  4. Translation... by doormat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We got their money because they're on a subscription. So we really dont care what they do. Random PR speak about how great our stuff is anyways.

    --
    The Doormat

    If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
    1. Re:Translation... by cmacb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Alternate translation:

      "it's our job to help DOT maximize the value of its Enterprise Agreement through the adoption of our technology. We are engaged with large, strategic customers across government at every level,"

      really means:

      It's our job to sabotage this in any way possible, but we haven't adopted a strategy just yet. If necessary we will go to your boss, or your boss's boss, including, if necessary our many opportunities to influence the law in our favor.

      http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117328195388829568 .html?mod=djemTECH

    2. Re:Translation... by ocbwilg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, the statement:

      As with any of our other Federal customers, it's our job to help DOT maximize the value of its Enterprise Agreement through the adoption of our technology.

      Means:

      What do we care? They have an Enterprise agreement, which means they're paying us the same annual fee whether they decide to take advantage of their upgrade rights or not. Eventually they'll get onboard and move to Vista and Office 2007, and after that they'll move to whatever we ship next.

  5. Buzzword Bingo by Ctrl+Alt+De1337 · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...it's our job to help DOT maximize the value of its Enterprise Agreement through the adoption of our technology. We are engaged with large, strategic customers across government at every level, and are working closely with them on these products through their participation in our Technical Adoption Programs.

    Um, Mrs. Foley? Bingo, ma'am.

    with apologies to Scott Adams

  6. Well... by 7of7 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Actually for anyone who's actually tried Vista and Office 2k7 it is clear that there are massive improvements in security, stability, and most importantly ease of use. I haven't shut down my Vista box since I installed it almost 2 months ago and it's still snappy even on a Pentium M with 1GB of RAM. What's more important is that the intuitive interface and time saving features such as searching and sorting significantly decrease the time spent mucking around with the OS and leave you to do your work. As such Vista would have a huge impact in increasing productivity not only through its stability but through the amount someone can get done with it relative to XP, its only real competition. Further, Office 2k7 has similar improvements which allow you to get more things done quicker. Instead of digging blindly through cascading menus the things you need most are there on the ribbon when you need them. The instant preview feature means less guesswork when applying formatting. There are scores of other usability improvements that in total allow me to save a significant amount of time. As a bonus it loads and runs much quicker than OO.o ever did on the same box in Ubuntu. Those are simple facts. Those people claiming Vista and Office 2k7 are somehow not ready for the big time are sadly mistaken and perhaps shouldn't be in charge of making decisions when their decisions will amount to their companies and governments missing the opportunity to dramatically increase their productivity.

    --
    *The most erroneous stories are those we think we know best - and therefore never scrutinize or question.*
    1. Re:Well... by heyyou_overhere · · Score: 5, Funny

      I have also been running vista for two months straight without restarting it. Office 2007 runs great on my computer, and I am especially impressed by the ri- Oooh look! A shiny coin!

    2. Re:Well... by anomalous+cohort · · Score: 4, Interesting

      anyone who's actually tried Vista and Office 2k7 it is clear that there are massive improvements in security, stability, and most importantly ease of use

      I, personally, believe that menus improve ease of use on a windowing application. Many menus appear to be either removed or cleverly hidden in Vista, IE7, and Office 2k7.

    3. Re:Well... by _merlin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You're a troll, but I'll bite.

      Actually for anyone who's actually tried Vista and Office 2k7 it is clear that there are massive improvements in security, stability, and most importantly ease of use.

      Straight out ridiculous assertion. I use it because I have to for compatibility testing at work. It is anything but easier to use. MS had it right as close to right as they ever have with 2003 server. Now they've moved everything around for no good reason in Vista, so we have to re-learn everything. Some things are just silly now, including, but limited to:

      • Some menus drop down and some expand to the right, which is inconsistent. Also, the ones that expand to the right obscure the titles of other menus, making it harder to navigate.
      • Some menu bars are above toolbars and some are below. Irritating inconsistency.
      • Some explorer windows have no titles, so you can't tell what they are when they're minimised.
      • Control panels have been renamed for no good reason making them harder to find.
      • Many views have less empty space, making them look "busy" or "crowded" and harder to find things.
      • Supplied desktop pictures all cause eyestrain after extended use.

      I haven't shut down my Vista box since I installed it almost 2 months ago and it's still snappy even on a Pentium M with 1GB of RAM.

      People said the same things about XP. Anecdotes then are the same as anecdotes now. Just because it's been stable for you means nothing. You haven't said what you actually do with the machine.

      What's more important is that the intuitive interface and time saving features such as searching and sorting significantly decrease the time spent mucking around with the OS and leave you to do your work.

      Searching the start menu is only a huge time-saver in Vista because they've made it completely impractical to use with a mouse. Instead of thinking about improving the start menu, they crippled it and added a search box as compensation. See my previous comments about dubious UI "improvements".

      As such Vista would have a huge impact in increasing productivity not only through its stability but through the amount someone can get done with it relative to XP, its only real competition.

      See above for my comments on stability and usability. Also, Mac OS X, Linux, Solaris and to a lesser extent, AIX are all very real competition. At home I have no Windows PCs. All Mac and Sun, and I'm very happy with them. At work I have a Windows PC for compiling and testing. For everything else (including editing source code that's compiled on the PC), I have Macs.

      Further, Office 2k7 has similar improvements which allow you to get more things done quicker. Instead of digging blindly through cascading menus the things you need most are there on the ribbon when you need them. The instant preview feature means less guesswork when applying formatting. There are scores of other usability improvements that in total allow me to save a significant amount of time.

      I haven't used it enough to comment on this, but if it's anything like the "improvements" in Vista, it probably makes life harder.

      As a bonus it loads and runs much quicker than OO.o ever did on the same box in Ubuntu. Those are simple facts.

      You have a point there. OO.o is bloated and slow. Thing is, I never need most of office or OO.o - HTML and LaTeX/PDF are better for 90% of tasks. I do however use Visio a bit.

      Those people claiming Vista and Office 2k7 are somehow not ready for the big time are sadly mistaken and perhaps shouldn't be in charge of making decisions when their decisions will amount to their companies and governments missing the opportunity to dramatically increase their productivity.

      Another ridiculous asser

    4. Re:Well... by jeevesbond · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Was the labotomy painful?

      Perhaps you'd care to read an article on how Vista is less intuitive than previous versions? Perhaps a simple Google search would sway your opinion on Vista being slow? What about one of the countless articles on the net advising that Office 2007 has no added value, just a steep learning curve?

      No? Didn't think so.

      The reason, Mr Shill (and I hope you're getting paid for this), all these companies are refusing to upgrade is that all this won't actually give them any greater functionality, or improve their workflow (due to the learning curve). Especially when you take into consideration how much this software costs! Even considering the heavy discounts these organisations will doubtless get, Microsoft should not expect money for nothing.

      OpenOffice might be bloated, but at least it uses a file format that's open and supported by many other office suites. Unlike that binary bilge Microsoft keep peddling and trying to force through standards agencies. My hope is that the DOT realise that before they get labotomised and start speaking like Microsoft drones: 'in order to leverage interoperable cross-markets, we're standardising on Microsoft Bullshit Ultimate Shill Server Lazy-Wanking-Bastards Edition'.

      --
      I'm going to transform myself into a mighty hawk. Either that or I'll just go and work at Dixons, haven't decided yet.
    5. Re:Well... by sumdumass · · Score: 3, Funny

      Quite your complaining.

      Did I mention Novell and GPLv3 recently?

      That should keep you busy for a while.

    6. Re:Well... by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Implementing new software (and let's be blunt, new hardware) for critical applications without adequately testing it would be nuts. What's more, governments have these things called budgets, and the hardware demands of Vista likely mean busting it, for little in perceived benefit. I mean really here. What does Vista or Office 2007 offer that's so wonderful that a manager is going to blow his budget and risk the stability of his existing systems?

      Beyond that, this is not the wonderous positive message I'm getting from those who are heavily into MS. They're telling me there's no compelling reason to upgrade, and that the risks of incompatibilities with existing software is still very much real. As a general policy, most IT departments I know err on the side of caution, waiting at least until the first service pack before rolling out the upgrades. As well, where a substantial reinvestment in hardware (upgrades and replacement) is required, I can well imagine many managers are going to say no way. Let's not even talk about licensing costs.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    7. Re:Well... by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As much as I dislike Microsoft- I dislike Slashdot's scummy moderating other times.

      This guy has as much right to express his opinion as anyone and it's shitty and cowardly to mod him down just because he's pro-microsoft.

      I personally am happy with OOO2.1 which finally loads my most complicated documents and I can see the day that I leave microsoft behind entirely approaching rapidly.

      I mean -- come on-- $1300 for full office- maybe $200 for the "discount"- with vendor lock-in by microsoft and a stated preference that they want to go to software as service in the future.

      Compared to ... $000 for the full OOO and $0 for the discounted version and it will continue to be free in the future. AND my bloody documents in OOO are about 1MB smaller on average than in Word 2003.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    8. Re:Well... by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Informative

      http://www.acs.org.au/president/1996/atm/npc/im961 009.htm

      National Press Club - IM Forum
      Speaker: Mr Scott McNealy
      President Sun Microsystems
      Wednesday, 9 October 1996

      "The second big investment is to upgrade your PC. I don't have any reason why we would want to do that, but, think about it - do we really need more spreadsheets? Do we really need more word processors? I just S we did a survey at Sun. We had 12.9 gigabytes of Powerpoint slides in storage on our disk drives. Ha ha ha. It freaks me out just to think about. Do you how many person sentries that is? Of clip-art manipulations? I banned Powerpoint from our company - I just edicted it."

      Earlier in that article, he mentions how he's only ever used word processors with four features: "backspace, delete, cut and paste and print"

      http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-19294279.html
      Chief Executive Magazine
      Date: 3/1/1997
      Computing's second Punic war.
      (interview with Sun Microsystems CEO Scott McNealy)

      "Personally, I got so frustrated with clip art and presentation graphics that I banned Power Point from our company 10 months ago. Our earnings have skyrocketed and our stock price has nearly doubled since that time. I have seen absolutely nothing but productivity gained by banning word processors with more than four features and Power Point-like graphics, or presentations graphics programs."

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
  7. Funny... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    We were just talking about Lice and their hosts...

  8. In other words... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Funny
    ...it's our job to help DOT maximize the value of its Enterprise Agreement through the adoption of our technology...

    We are Microsoft. Lower your Firewalls and surrender your systems. We will add your cultural and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your IT departments will adapt to service us.

    Resistance is futile.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    1. Re:In other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Ah, you beat me to that one. But I have another:

      "I have maximized the value of our Enterprise Agreement. Pray I do not maximize it further."

  9. Even Intel is waiting on Vista SP1 by Taelron · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Heck, even Intel, whom Microsoft laudes as a partner in embracing Vista has publicly stated that they, as a corporation, will not even install Vista on their computers until after SP1 is released... So now you have a technology partner publicly stating they wont be so quick to upgrade either... http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/03/07/intel_wati ng_to_go_vista/

  10. Nothing New Really by jascat · · Score: 3, Informative

    Federal agencies are typically slow to pick up on new versions of Office and Windows. Currently, the US Air Force has a moratorium on IE7 and has since it came out citing security issues. Neither Vista nor Office 2k7 are approved for use on Air Force networks...yet. They have to be certified to be safe and secure to use on unclassified and classified networks. This is normal. Eventually, and unfortunately in my opinion, the moratorium will be lifted and approval will be given. It's more of a question of when, rather than if.

  11. Remember DOT wants broken ie6 by oneeyedelf1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Remember the reason the DOT doesn't want to upgrade is because it needs ie6 compatibility for its websites. So because ie7 is better towards standards they won't use it. And the reasons that Office and Vista are lumped in there is because they upgrade to ie7. Frankly I wish the websites were better so the DOT had the option of upgrading to a better version of windows, or even the possibility of changing to another operating system.

  12. DOT may already be paying for Vista by Animats · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ..it's our job to help DOT maximize the value of its Enterprise Agreement through the adoption of our technology.

    In other words, DOT is already paying for Vista, even if they're not using it. Remember how Microsoft enterprise-level "software assurance" works. You pay by the year, upgrade or not.

  13. Reading Microsoft's reply... by trudyscousin · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...I had to be certain I was not reading the subject of the previous Slashdot story, "The Coevolution of Lice & Their Hosts."

    --
    Those who can, do. Those who can't, write technology blogs.
  14. Embarassed? by ichbineinneuben · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How can they say things like this with a straight face? Saying they "respect the customer's decision" then following it up by saying it's their job to foist Windows on them regardless? Where's the respect in that? Whatever else this statement may mean, it disrespects the intelligence of any reader.

  15. At least temporaraly by Mycroft_514 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We have a total ban on those same products here. And we are a fortune 10 company.

    As for home use, I looked at the upgrade path. I ran the checkout program provided by Microsoft. It tells me: Both printers not supported, both scanners not supported, my external hard drive (160GB) not supported, and elements of my LAN not supported.

    In follow up, I have tracked down that for 1 scanner and both printers, the vender (HP) has ALREADY declared they will NOT be releasing updated drivers. The other scanner, I have to upgrade the software for (Nikon). The other items I have no word on yet.

    Also, I have a Laptop with 2GB of memory and that isn't enough to run Vista well? WTF? And looking at the new feature list from MS. I don't want them wasting all that memory on the file search process. Nor do I want the DRM, so what exactly is Vista giving me besides grief?