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802.11n Draft 2.0 Approved by Working Group

[Geeks Are Sexy] writes "Yes folks, the 802.11 Working Group has finally approved Draft 2.0 of the 802.11n spec, bringing us a step closer to its final form. 'With the positive vote from the 802.11n Working Group, the Wi-Fi Alliance will now begin officially certifying equipment as being compliant with Draft 2.0. That's an important step, as official Draft 2.0-compliant gear is guaranteed to be fully compatible with the final 802.11n standard.'"

26 of 105 comments (clear)

  1. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  2. ISO efficiency by Excelcia · · Score: 2

    ISO seems to be more efficient at ramrodding through standards we don't want (OOXML) rather than getting out the ones we are desperately waiting for. :p

  3. About f***ing time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It will take a couple of months at least for certified equipment to appear. Having participated in a couple of the working group meetings, I can say that (unfortunately) one of the unsaid goals for any of the participating companies was to make sure that none of their competitor's proposals go through as is. The rationale being that the competitor would have a chip design almost ready to go with that technique and will be faster to hit the market and grab market share...

    1. Re:About f***ing time by mastershake_phd · · Score: 2, Informative

      It will take a couple of months at least for certified equipment to appear.

      For Draft Certified equipment to appear? Isn't that kind of an oxymoron?

    2. Re:About f***ing time by evilviper · · Score: 2, Informative

      It will take a couple of months at least for certified equipment to appear.

      It might take a couple months for the packaging and documentation to be updated. If you can't wait, looking at each vendor's websites for firmware updates and attached notes should quickly tell you which currently available gear is going to be 100% compatible, and full-speed with (future) certified 802.11n gear.

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  4. They need to prioritize by cyberbob2351 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I see that this released draft seems to focus on speed increases, and not enough at all on security. Why is it that the industry is focused on such unimportant aspects of the technology.

    With this speed increase, we will see even MORE packets per second on these networks, which only makes cracking of WEP, WPA, and LEAP that much faster now that the cryptographic sample set increases.

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    1. Re:They need to prioritize by EvanED · · Score: 2, Informative

      The people who work on these separate things are two different groups of people probably. The ones you want working on crypto stuff are your theoretical comp sci people and mathematicians. The ones you want working on the next 802.11 standard are your electrical engineers. It's not like one group is really diverting resources from the other.

      There are ways to reasonably secure your network, so people who know and care will still be able to take advantage of n when it's finalized.

      (This is over-simplified of course, but the overall point remains.)

    2. Re:They need to prioritize by gad_zuki! · · Score: 4, Informative

      >MORE packets per second on these networks,

      That makes no sense. WPA (using TKIP) changes keys every x packets, not x seconds. Usually under 10,000. WPA using AES/CCMP is even more difficult (if not impossible) to crack. WPA and WPA2 are just fine for wireless networks at 108mpbs. Hell, I'd be happy just to see people migrate away from WEP with this new release of products.

      The real vulnerability is still weak passwords. Wireless devices could do more to enforce better passwords and limit the amount of tries per minute per mac.

    3. Re:They need to prioritize by soleblaze · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Doesn't matter about limiting the tries per mac. A majority of tools designed to crack WPA are done via offline attacks. You sniff the 4 way auth handshake, and with that you can use an offline password cracker, such as cowpatty, against it. Cowpatty also supports hashes (rainbow table attack) and the church of wifi released hashes for 1000 of the most common ssids using a ~174k dictionary. (That's the major problem with using a hash attack, the SSID is used as salt with WPA). So in the end, it's just weak passwords that's the problem.

  5. Re:802.11n -- what's the point? by Normal+Dan · · Score: 5, Funny

    Even for gamers, where the multiplayer gaming protocols are optimized for ordinary cablemodem connections (and even dialup still for some), you're still not going to flood that 54 Mbps connection. I disagree. I had a wireless hub hooked up to a cable modem so we did not have to run a cable though the house. The wireless connection did slow me down a bit. It would have been nice to have a faster connection so my ping could be on par with the other player. Those few extra milliseconds can and often do mean the difference between life and death. Because of my high ping rates I became discouraged when it came to playing games and instead turned to my studies and other activities. Now I have a great paying job and I am quite healthy and financially successful. I never meant for this to happen, I just wanted to play games and have fun and I was robbed of such a life by wireless... damn you wireless, damn you!
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  6. Re:802.11n -- what's the point? by Martin+Blank · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You're thinking mostly home. Think full-scale enterprise, like I have to. It takes very little to saturate the links, especially when you factor in how much of the operations are now handled over the network. It's not just a few e-mails; Outlook can consume significant bandwidth (as can any client that keeps at least a copy client-side), and many companies require all data to be kept on network shares. Throw in roaming profiles and group policy-based software installations (even using BITS), and you can eat up wireless bandwidth very quickly.

    The ability to match wire speeds for numerous users is going to be a huge benefit to companies that want to deploy wireless for something other than convenience in the conference rooms. Even when using a proper channel layout, even using 802.11a, you still have bandwidth contention within a channel on a single AP, and it mars the experience for the general user. Splitting higher bandwidth will assist in alleviating these issues.

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  7. Re:802.11n -- what's the point? by DeGem · · Score: 2, Insightful

    not to rain on your case but there is more then just internet traffic on my home network. I stream content and move files around to where I need them.

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  8. N already? by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 4, Funny

    We're more than halfway through the alphabet already. How long until we run out of letters, and have to designate our wireless standards by shapes, colors, or other designations?

    "Guess what! My network is now running exclusively on 802.11blue-dodecahedron-with-lemon-scent-and-sandp apery-texture!"

    1. Re:N already? by MindStalker · · Score: 2, Informative

      well we could just change the 802.11 part to something else. No biggie. BTW h,i,j,k,l,m were all used at SOME point. Some more than others.

      (Don't remember all of them myself I know i was an improved encryption scheme, j was japanesse support k was extra node hopping, etc.. all or most of which is going into n)

    2. Re:N already? by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 2, Informative

      After z comes aa, ab, etc. 802.3 (Ethernet) is up to ay already.

    3. Re:N already? by Nermal6693 · · Score: 2, Funny

      We'll just have to start using LETTERv6 instead of v4. However, it'll take several years to catch on.

  9. for the cheapskates by Lord+Ender · · Score: 2

    Once official N gear starts hitting store shelves in full force, the G stuff is going to go "free after rebate" to clear the shelves.

    Then we will see people buying trunk-fulls of G access points, and distributing grids of the free access points all over their property, providing greater coverage and more (net) bandwidth for the cost of $0 + time.

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  10. 802.11.n by thanksforthecrabs · · Score: 2

    more important than increased speed is the touted additional distance....

  11. Re:802.11n -- what's the point? by paeanblack · · Score: 3, Funny

    Those few extra milliseconds can and often do mean the difference between life and death.

    Perhaps you would be happier with hobby a little less lethal?

  12. Re:802.11n -- what's the point? by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Informative

    I think for most people using WiFi for Web surfing, G is plenty good enough. Most uplink speeds aren't anything close to what G offers anyway, and most people would be hard-pressed to flood a 54Mbps WiFi connection with Web traffic.

    But, people don't only use their networks for web traffic.

    I know quite a few people who have wireless media players integrated into their stereos. If you're streaming your A/V stuff over your network, or copying files about between your computers, bandwidth is *good*.

    I know when I'm backing up data from my work laptop to my FreeBSD file server over wireless, I sometimes wish it was faster.

    Once your wireless runs most of your lan, there are lots of reasons why more local bandwidth is a thing you may want. Some people might have more local traffic that internet traffic.

    Cheers
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  13. Re:802.11n -- what's the point? by gad_zuki! · · Score: 5, Informative

    Wireless gaming is quite the little nightmare isnt it?

    Here are some things you can do. The goal is getting the ping to the wireless router to be 1ms (or less) consistantly. 2-4ms consistantly is okay but past that lots of problems creep in.

    1. Some wireless managers do something stupid every 30 or 60 seconds that causes lost packets and delays. The MS XP SP2 manager is one of these. I use the linksys manager that came with my card now.

    2. Find a free channel in you area. Or the one with the least amount of interference on one of the three non overlapping channels.

    3. Set your router to be either G or B only (pick one). Doing both adds some time slicing silliness that hurts latency. You might want to try both and see which one works out best for you.

    4. Get as close as possible to the router.

    5. Get a better antenna/chipset. You need a stellar connection with no interference.

    I finally got my desktop to ping the router at 1ms consistantly with no lost packets. Well, once in a great while. Its so much more effort than running an unslightly wire and the wireless still 'feels' slow on BF2. Other games that arent as network demanding may fare better. Now I just run a wire when I want to play just to be extra safe and leave wireless for when im not gaming.

    Lastly, an n-connection may not be at all faster in terms of latency. You may still have time slicing problems, weird interference issues, extra CPU usage, etc. Its not really like ethernet at all. Depending on the manufacturer and what the air interface is like near you it could be worse (latency wise) than running an old B router with a decent antenna.

  14. Actually... by DogDude · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Actually, I tend to agree. I can't imagine ever using wireless for anything more important than say, reading Slashdot or Perez Hilton. Slow, insecure by definition, and inconsistent. I'll take wires over wireless any day.

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  15. Re:802.11n -- what's the point? by volsung · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It would be nice if the shift to 802.11n meant that we saw more built-in support for the 5 GHz band. 802.11a seems to have mostly died in the consumer market, while the 2.4 GHz band with its overlapping channels gets more and more congested with b/g devices. Unless you live in low density housing, you aren't going to get anywhere near 54 Mbps to your router, even if you wanted to.

    Unfortunately, since 802.11n allows for 2.4 GHz and/or 5 GHz operation, there are some people who are pessimistic that we'll see many consumer grade devices that are dual band. (A quick check revealed that the Airport Extreme base station does both 2.4 and 5 GHz, which is nice, but I can't tell if the Macbooks with draft-n cards do both bands as well.)

  16. Re:802.11n -- what's the point? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Its so much more effort than running an unslightly wire and the wireless still 'feels' slow on BF2. Other games that arent as network demanding may fare better. Now I just run a wire when I want to play just to be extra safe and leave wireless for when im not gaming.

    I just want to jump in here and say that running a wire is much, much easier than most people think it is. The only time it can really be a pain is when you live in an apartment... in which case you are likely to have neighbors polluting the region of the radio spectrum near 2.4GHz.

    In fact, you don't even need to know anything about wiring to install a network cable. All you need to know is how you're going to run the cable. The connectors have color codes on them (if you buy anything but the very cheapest) and you can just press the wires into the proper areas, matching their color codes, and snap the little crimp connectors on.

    Wireless is indeed the answer in some situations - those situations are all ones in which you're moving around, or a remote site to which you cannot run a wire. For everything else, you owe it to yourself to run a wire. You can run 100Mbps for hundreds of meters...

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  17. That's great, but what I want to know is... by negated · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...will it include priority packet support for Duke Nukem Forever?

  18. Re:belkin? by TechnicalFool · · Score: 2, Funny

    I've got a Pre-N router/card combo, and It's not "basically G". The "Basically G" router I used to have, would be hard pushed to give me a signal at the bottom of the garden. It also had a major problem with DECT phones, and if anyone decided to use the microwave oven, I could kiss goodbye to any data transfer during cooking. Now I'm blackspot-free, there's a clear signal all the way to a friend's house three doors up across the street, through his house into the fields beyond, and my signal is about as likely to get jammed by a leaky oven or noisy telephone as a fly is to knock out a 40 ton truck.

    Mmmm, I like N. Even the dodgy draft versions.

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