Slashdot Mirror
Why You Can't Buy a Naked PC
ZDOne writes "A piece up on ZDNet looks at the issue of naked PCs. ZDNet UK phoned around all the major PC vendors and not one of them would sell a machine without Windows on it. IT professionals are being forced to adopt Microsoft's operating systems — even if they tell their PC supplier they want a system free of Microsoft software. On the other hand, even if it's almost impossible to buy a PC without an operating system installed, companies like Dell and HP are now committed to supporting Linux as well. 'Murray believes there is a market for Linux in the UK but is also aware of the issues facing any large supplier who wants to make Linux boxes available. "It means diverting production lines and that is a lot of money and so we have to prove the business case," he said. However, he made it clear that he is enthusiastic about the idea and wants to make it work. "We just have to show it is worthwhile," he said.'"
I don't get it. You get the Win for "free" (or less) due to the nagware installed. Why not just get the pc with linux-capable components, let the advertizers pay for your unused copy of windows, and install your favorite flavor of linux (or whatever you plan on using)?
I have yet to get a new pc I didn't re-image or install from scratch anyway. If I used linux I'm certain I wouldn't like the vendor's setup any more than I like their win installs. Too many custom setting to get these kinds of things to work they way we use them. If the windows is effectively free, and you have to do a reinstall anyway, why not just ignore it?
Oh, right - it's far more appropriate to whine about it.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
I blame Bush, the Religious Right and the Christian Coalition. As soon as you talk about anything being naked, they're hitting the speed dial to call their lawyers...
My blog
If Dell or Gateway won't sell a naked PC, then let that be their folly if such strategy fails. In the meantime, do a bit of research and find smaller vendors that will sell a PC sans OS. Here's a small company that sells many brands of laptops with no OS by default: www.powernotebooks.com. If it wasn't for the Intel Macbook line coming out, I would have gone with something from them.
Put your money where your mouth is, do business with those small companies and they'll eventually become big ones if the demand is great enough. Dell once started out as a small company and selling computers with Windows worked for them.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
You can buy servers from Dell with no pre-installed operating system. I know 'cause I've recently bought two.
Interestingly enough, when you choose the no operating system option, the server suddenly costs $799 less than with Windows 2003 R2 installed.
I don't know how you do math where you are from, but where I'm from $799 isn't free.
Oh, and that's U.S. dollars, just to clarify.
Just be sure to wear the gold uniform when you beam down -- you know what happens when you wear the red one.
Can someone tell me where/how I can buy an Apple-branded computer without an Apple-supplied O/S?
Anyone above the age of 18 should be allowed to decide for themselves whether they want to see a naked pc. Wait...
Dell sells the n series with FreeDOS. That's about as close to a naked PC as you can get. They also sell workstation-class systems (the Precision series) with Linux pre-installed, we buy them at work. You can even download drivers that work from their site, as I found out recently with a Precision 690 running WS4. Their sound drivers went in, and after removing the included non-functional driver everything worked great. I can't complain. HP also sells Linux systems, and we have a few.
Aside from those vendors, and numerous others that specialize in Linux, I build my own systems for home use. Not a one of them has ever come with Windows.
GPL: Free as in will
I think it's a bit more complicated. Sure we know that, historically, Microsoft has engaged in anti-competitive practices like "the Microsoft Tax". But I would think that Dell, HP, and the others are probably equally scared of people like my friend "Joe". He's cheap as (fill in your preferred perjorative here), and if he could save a few bucks buying a PC without an OS he'd do it. Problem is, he is not tech savvy in the least - so he'd get some cut-rate version of Windows one way or the other, try - and fail - to install it, then spend hours on the phone with Dell arguing over "why their computer is broken". I've tried helping him with tech problems over the phone before, and I'll tell you - it's like pulling teeth getting just basic information from him.
When the vendors claim they don't want to sell naked PCs because of the potential support nightmare, I believe them. It's not the Slashdot crowd that's the problem; but there are 100 "Joe"s for every 1 Slashdotter.
#DeleteChrome
It's kind of like lingerie. A lot of the fun is getting it naked. If it just shows up to your door without anything, it just seems too clinical and a little tawdry.
Yep. I'm a geek.
Best Windows Freeware
I think the first thing that must be changed is the concept that you are "buying a naked pc". That implies that without the operating system, the PC is naked! Why isn't a PC without it's case screwed on considered a naked PC?
Basically, vendors don't seem willing to believe that people have the know-how to buy some hardware and then somehow make it work, which kind of makes sense. For example, I'm sure few people would buy a PC without the BIOS installed, and Dell and the like aren't going to cater their huge business to the hobbyists who would flash a PC with their own BIOS, for example.
On the other hand, why they can't make a small stipulation to sell X% of units raw to folks that are DIY'ers, is beyond me.. they could even sell it with a disclosure that they don't support ANY operating system in their contract, however their hardware has been tested with XYZ operating systems.
-6d
Roll your own, or go to a local comp shop, have them roll it, or go to one of a million sites online and purchase it.
Why should Dell, Gateway, or anyone else have to offer you this? How does there refusal to do so "force" IT professionals into Windows?
I really don't get the logic. Maybe they should, maybe if they thought it was profitable, they would There's no money in it. The site you are reading is owned by a failed linux box provider, they should know more than anyone why Dell doesnt promote or sell boxes with Linux.
But why should they have to? Why do you think you have a right to go to Dell and ask them for this?
Should EB Games have to carry Neo Geo titles? I like my Neo Geo. Lots of people do, there's a very active community behind it. Whats the difference?
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Mac: I'm a PC too, just dont tell the elitist douchebags who own me - they shelled out a lot of cash, and think they bought something "high end". Also, I go with your drapes and swing both ways. Let me just pop up my collar and we'll buy some songs on iTunes, I know *ALL* the indie bands.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
You are assuming that the amounts paid by the entities described
are passed on to the consumer in some way. It is entirely possible
that the amounts find their way, in part or in whole, to the
companies bottom line instead.
emt 377 emt 4
Every time I buy a new laptop it has Windows pre-installed.
My solution is simple: the first thing I do is to put up an online auction with no starting price or reserve price and every single time I've gotten 90% of the official OEM price or better even when there are dozens of sellers.
Then I simply remove the license sticker and mail it to the winner - 'problem' solved.
Getting $100 back from a $600 laptop gives a nice discount too.
Is reselling software forbidden in some countries or why this simple option hasn't come up yet?
Capitalization is the difference between "Helping your uncle jack off a horse" and "Helping your uncle Jack off a horse"
I'd wager that there's not enough consumer demand (or business consumers) for naked PC's. but there are other factors as well. one, there is but one windows, and dell, et al., can taylor it to their machines and make it work at least out of the box. no, they don't have the control over it as they would linux, but they have enough. when you screw with the machine, it's you screwing with it. and help is much easier, and cheaper, when there's a single OS. imagine having to figure out the distro, the kernel, etc. it'd be a disaster.
that linux is "free" in all senses for you and me, doesn't make it free for dell, etc. to add an OS would be very expensive and to provide none (for every comptuer), would terribly diminish their product. the OS for dell is a complementary good without which, they couldn't sell their product. not to defend MS or dell, but the truth is, MS is well within their rights to demand that dell sell a copy with every machine to get a volume discount, ability to modify it, etc. but the bottom line is that there just isn't enough interest to justify naked PC's. however, notice Dell's server line. you can get them, which ought to tell you something.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
In 1994 I tried to buy a bare desktop PC from Dell or Gateway. Since it was to replace my old dead IBM PC (dead after 13 months), I didn't need a new OS. But both Dell and Gateway insisted I buy a new license of Windows anyway.
These days when I buy a laptop, it comes with Windows. When the laptop dies, I can't transfer the license to another PC. They simply don't even provide OS or recovery CDs/DVDs.
So much for the DOJ's Anti-trust agreement with Microsoft. Nothing has changed.
For a minute I thought I had to get dressed to buy a PC.
Leave the gun, take the cannoli -- Clemenza, The Godfather
Ummm, no offense intended but you don't need a 'second computer' or 'broadband' to get your hands on an operating system. What in the world do you think people did in the 'olden days' when they bought computers which came with no operating system OR modem.
You can either have your advertising subsidized Windows crapware, or you pay a bit more for the hardware. Why do you want to have your cake AND want to eat it? It doesn't work that way.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
My guess is that the writer could not find any PCs without MS Windows, because he typed the wrong search terms into Google. There is no shortage of 'bare bones PCs' on the web.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
No-OS, Computers without Operating System (for those who want to install their own Operating System):
http://www.abestpc.com/laptop.htm Laptops
http://www.adamant.com/ Desktops Laptops
http://www.avadirect.com/ Desktops Laptops
http://www.com4.nl/ Desktops
http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/ Desktops Laptops
http://www.goldenelectronics.co.uk/ Desktops
http://www.hypersonic-pc.com/ Desktops Laptops
http://www.ion-technologies.com/ Laptops
http://store.madtux.org/ Desktops/
http://www.laptopchoice.com.au/ Laptops
http://www.mtechlaptops.com/ Laptops
http://www.mwave.com/ Laptops
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/ Desktops Laptops
http://www.pcsforeveryone.com/ Laptops
http://www.powernotebooks.com/ Laptops
http://www.rjtech.com/ Laptops
http://www.topmicrousa.com/laptops-notebooks.html Laptops
http://www.unitedmicro.com/ Desktops Laptops
http://xnbs.com/ Laptops
http://www.xtremenotebooks.com/ Laptops
http://www.zepto.com/ Laptops
http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/
You know, you don't HAVE to buy a machine from Dell or anyone else. Someone with enough motivation to learn how can purchase the proper parts and build their own PC or server.
It's really not too hard to do, and if you plan it out and buy some components on sale, you can probably do the same or better on price than if you bought a system... sure there's your time, but it's an investement in yourself..at worst, hobby time.
Then you're free to install your OS of choice.
Any if you really want to, you can keep costs down by cannibalizing parts you already have...CD/DVD drives for example have not changed much in a few years..and are not likely to; keyboards, mice, monitors, etc.
Huh?
I'm suprised no one else commented on this. Don't many slashdotters build their own PC's anyway, thus skipping the problem entirely? What market is there for naked PC's? home users who buy a pre-built machine want it to 'just work'. corporations who buy 1000 pre-built machines typically specify exactly what they want the machines to be pre-loaded with. what's the big deal here?
It's not stupid. It's Advanced.
At some point in every sea change, the big established market makers will make a mistake. That mistake will sometimes allow a new type of business to get a toe-hold. The more the old industries know, the more likely they are to get stuck in their ways.
We're at an interesting point in technology. Interest in non-Windows operating systems is on the rise. Vista happens. Companies want/need an alternative they can get in bulk. People like me...and a lot of you...could easily set up an entire office on Ubuntu, if we could bid the job by the unit we might even be competitive. More people would sell hardware if they could call up and get a room full of blanks and configure a custom OS installation and service local markets.
If HP, Dell or whoever isn't supplying the machines, start a company that only supplies no-OS machines. Microsoft can't whine it encourages piracy after five years of product activation. Publish your hardware specs, coordinate drivers.
Your customers will be geeks, hobbyists and companies where...people like us work. You won't have the AOL crowd trying to buy PC's from you. Give them to Dell and HP and Microsoft. Do you really want to do work for the general public? The best use I've seen for them is Soylent Green. Restore some natural selection in the gene pool.
Work out your configurations with an overseas supplier. Opportunities like this don't come along every day in technology. Take advantage. Start small, don't go into debt. Anyone know Mandrin? Email me, let's try it. WTF?
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
I note on their website that you cannot order a box without a hard drive, which means you'd have to talk to a real-live human in order to get it done. Though, I suspect that whoever I talked to on the phone would have to call their manager over and then collectively scratch their heads on such a request.
--Calling over the manager and lots of head-scratching tend to be common whenever I try to do things in this world. I think this must be the case for anybody who refuses to play sheep at the game of life; there are simply no regular options available for people who are not asleep. Luckily, no matter how much control a corporate body puts into the their systems, I've so far always managed to find ways towards freedom of choice, usually at the expense of somebody's peaceful state of servitude, for which I make no apologies.
-FL
Color me impressed, but IBM took some of the most obtuse and obtrusive things in windows and smoothed them out perfectly!
...
Yes, I think they called it OS/2
Oh, wait, that's not what you were talking about. Nevermind.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Generally though, if someone really wants a naked pc, they are probably capable of building it from parts.
Capable, yes. Able to justify it to their employer in a commercial environment? Probably not. It would go something like this:
"You want to do what?"
"Instead of buying these PCs from Dell, which come with a copy of Windows we don't need, I want to buy parts and assemble them into computers myself."
"How much money do we save?"
"About fifty dollars per machine."
"How long will this take?"
"Including testing, about half an hour per machine."
"OK. What about warranties?"
"All the parts will be warrantied for one year."
"The parts. Not the computers."
"Yes."
"So when one breaks, instead of returning the entire machine for service, you have to diagnose which part is faulty before we can return it."
"Yes."
"How long will that take?"
"About half an hour per incident."
"How much am I paying you?"
"Forty dollars per hour."
"If we ever decided to install Windows, how much would it cost to get copies to replace the ones we'll not be buying"
"About a hundred dollars each."
"Go call Dell."
If you eat the cake, you don't have it anymore. That's the point.
We have a similar saying here in switzerland:
"Du chasch nöd de füefer unds weggli ha"
"You can't have 5 cents and a piece of bread"
What would you translate that to in Hochdeutsch?
"Du kannst nicht die fuenf Cent und das Brotchen haben"
(learning standard German in Bavaria, but briefly exposed to Swiss German at Silvester and understood NOTHING)
In my German boyfriend's Marco Polo guide to Zuerich: do not attempt to speak Swiss German. You will sound like you're mocking them.
Grüß Gott aus Bayern!