Wireless Routers for Congested Areas?
An anonymous reader asks: "I have been living close to campus at UW Madison for the past six months or so and have come across a problem. We, along with everyone else in the area, have a wireless router, both a Belkin 54g and a Linksys WRT54G. We have Charter 3 Mbit down/.25 Mbit up cable and 6 guys in our apartment. Just on our block about 15-20 people have routers. We are constantly plagued with problems connecting to the wireless, staying connected, getting connected after rebooting, hibernating, and so forth. We have to reset the cable modem and the router many times a day to get everything rolling again. I am thinking that the router is the problem, because my dad always told me that's why they have twenty dollar routers up to thirty thousand dollar routers. What router can I purchase that will help my situation and will work well in a congested college area?"
Easy, snarf your neighbor's wireless connection, and dump your router entirely.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
You can boost the signal strength on routers once they're flashed with DDWRT. Do that (up to like 80mW) and use the least used channel and you should be good.
If Bush wants to kill the terrorists, he should jump off a cliff.
There's no real way around it -- assuming you *have* to have wireless -- however there are a few options that might help. Using 802.11a or 802.11n should get you out of the frequencies that are in use by most other people. 802.11n isn't finalised yet, afaik, but plenty of people will sell you it (and it should work ok - as long as you stick to the same brand, anyway).
A lot of people I know run cat5 cabling around their doors to get around this (works well if you're in a drafty house with gaps under the doors)
Global symbol "$deity" requires explicit package name at line 2. - If only $scripture started "use strict;"
Why are you running 2 routers? Isn't that just compounding the problem?
Use Kismet or NetStumbler, and find a channel with no strong signals nearby, and use that one.
Try different antenna orientatations.
Put a metal reflector behind the AP if it's in a corner of the house.
Nothing to see here; Move along.
I've been using a D-Link 524 router for a while in my home setup. It's given me nothing but trouble, rebooting and randomly blocking computers on the network [part of it's built-in security junk, it's blocking logs show it will block perfectly valid computers for random reasons]. Firmware updates don't seem to fix it.
I got tired of that and searched for a router capable of running OpenWRT in case the default firmware sucked.
I found the Asus WL-500g Premium and bought that for about $100 at the time. The default firmware worked fine, but I decided to try openWRT, then tossed that in favor of X-Wrt which had a better web interface.
The router's current uptime is 37 days with no crashes or any oddities what so ever. Last restart was for a firmware reflash.
As for reception, try lesser-used channels. 6 is a really common channel, so try 1 or 11 instead [or any other channel].
Note however, that if you go the path of openWRT or X-wrt, you're going to have to spend some time working out the kinks at first. Mine worked fine, except wifi couldn't access wan, which took a bit to figure out how to fix it; openWRT's wiki and forum were a big help in figuring out that.
Check what version of the WRT54G that you have. You should be able to run "DD-WRT" on it. This read up on doing the flash properly as you can nuke your router if you put the wrong image on first. Basically there is a "first time flash" image to use. And then once you have put that on it, you can flash to the full version that your router supports. Again, it will depend on which hardware version of the WRT54G you have as there are something like 6 different revisions, some more powerful then others and some more friendly for using third-party images (due to having more storage on the device, some have as little as 2MB total space for the OS, others can have as much as 16 or even 32MB of space).
Now, once you have flashed it, you can use additional channel space that is normally unavailable to use as it is reserved bandwidth. I forget which channel ID it is, channel 14 I think is not normally accessible in the USA. Change to that channel and most of your interference should go away from other competing devices.
Now, other things to do, turn off the broadcast SSID. Setup the MAC Address Filter and only include the MAC addresses of devices that you want to allow to connect. You can now even setup your own local DNS and statically assigned DHCP addresses for devices (in other words, your device still does the normal DHCP request, but you always get the a specified address for that device, useful if you have any kind of file sharing or network server).
Other things you can do is boost your antenna gain in the software if you have poor coverage in the house/apartment. You can also try specifying a specific antenna to transmit or receive, which can be useful if you want to upgrade an antenna with one of your own design, or something you purchased. I personally have a 16 dbi omni on my wireless router. I also have a 24 dbi directional in case I ever need to do something like making a wireless bridge. Using something like that could potentially let you connect to your campus's wireless net and use their higher speed pipe that your student fees already pay for.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
Simple. Get any router than you can install DD-WRT from http://www.dd-wrt.com/ on.
Everything is tweakable, the system is very stable, even in high traffic areas, and you will be able to get it to work reliably (mine does, with 15-20 other access points visible). In fact, I have two, and one serves as a wireless bridge, in a very high traffic area. I've had 40 days or so of up-time.
Even better, you get things like forced QoS, a lot of flexibility in terms of services (DyDNS? Check. Local DyDNS? Check. Excellent Port Triggering? Check. An iptables based firewall? Check. 802.11 briding? Check), and a future-proof, at least in terms of encryption, router (WEP WPA WPA2).
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
Go to wallyworld/slows/home despot/etc.
Get a timer switch (the ones people use to turn the lights on/off when they go on vacation. Get a digital one so you won't be plagued with tick tick tick all the time.
Set the timer to turn off at 5am, and turn on at 5:01am. That way, you'll powercycle the router/modem every day and won't notice it because you would be pretending to sleep at that hour.
Grump
Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
.. but you're asking questions, which is good!
We, along with everyone else in the area, have a wireless router, both a Belkin 54g and a Linksys WRT54G.
Why 2 routers? How are they connected? Same SSID? Same channel? One wireless-G router should be enough to cover an apartment. I suspect this is the cause of many of your problems.
We are constantly plagued with problems connecting to the wireless, staying connected, getting connected after rebooting, hibernating, and so forth. We have to reset the cable modem and the router many times a day to get everything rolling again.
You are asking many different questions:
1. Is the cable modem working and getting signal from your ISP?
2. Is the router working and communicating with the cable modem?
3. Is the router working and providing a wireless signal?
4. Are your computers working and connecting via wireless?
To rule out the wireless questions, connect a computer to the router with an ethernet cable and see if you connect to the internet. If you can't, then the problem is #1 or #2.
You say that you are in a congested wireless area due to many other wireless routers. That's a fact of life these days. How good is your signal strength? Can you change your wireless channel to a channel where is less interference?
I am thinking that the router is the problem, because my dad always told me that's why they have twenty dollar routers up to thirty thousand dollar routers.
You are confusing the capabilities of a router with the reliability of a router. Capabilites and reliability do not always correlate with price.
There are many old 802.11a access points available on ebay for very little money.
The Proxim ones can be flashed with a web interface rather than the telnet based one they arrive with.
I have one here and it works great, once setup just plug into your router and go.
Of course you will need an 802.11a capable card for your laptop. I was able to find a minipci intel dual band one for about $20.
Good points:
802.11a has more channels than b/g
802.11a less range and is more effected by walls etc meaning less interference
Its 5.2Ghz so your 5.8Ghz phone is not going to interfere
Reasonablely inexpencive
Bad points:
The Proxim I got doesn't support wpa-psk so only with a radius server can you use wpa
You need a 802.11a radio to use it, although dual band radios are getting to be more common, they are still not that common.
The signal doesn't go as far, you'll need more access points to cover an area.
Here's a stupid idea !
Use aluminum foil as wallpaper. Not only will it will bounce off your neighbors airwaves and block out alien mindreading capabilities but it will protect you in case of a fire !
Your experience is par for the course. Get some CAT5 and your troubles will vanish.
Because of how "channels" work (how they map to the actual frequencies), the only usable channels (that is, channels far enough away to not suffer interference) are 1, 6, 11.
7 8 9 -- all of those will suffer from the same problems from people on channel 6. 802.11[bg] is not designed to work well and play with others.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Some of these tips are a bit "brute force" for those times when you can't coordinate your setups with your neighbours' setups, others require cooperation to work well..
There are a few other tricks you could try in order to boost signal strength but a lot of those really only apply if your signal strength is bad without there being other networks nearby, like if your access point is far from the computer then you might try getting yourself a repeater but I'm guessing you're in a fairly small apartment so that shouldn't apply..
/Mikael
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
7 8 9 -- all of those will suffer from the same problems from people on channel 6. 802.11[bg] is not designed to work well and play with others.
Actually, you will see worse problems. 802.11 is in fact designed to work well with overlapping networks. Devices on overlapping networks will watch all the packets in the air on the same channel, including those on other networks. They will backoff when they see other devices sending packets. You can still get bad congestion of course, but the devices are at least trying to play nice.
If you switch to a neighboring channel, like 5 or 7, then the devices can't play nice any more. Instead of being able to hear and understand the traffic on other networks, it all just shows up as big blasts of noise. I actually did a bunch of testing of this years ago. If I put two AP's on channel 1 right next to each other and ran simultaneous transfers with two clients, the aggregate bandwidth was about 95% what I would get with two clients on 1 AP. But when I moved one AP to channel 2, it dropped to 75%-85%. At channels 1 and 3, it dropped into the 70%--75% range. After that, it climbed, getting back to just over 100% at channels 1 and 5. Channels 1-6 got me up to 180% of the original throughput and 1-7 up to 210% of the original. In retrospect, I had the AP's way too close which explains why I still saw interference at the 1-6 step. But assuming your neighbors aren't putting their access point 2 feet away from your own, this shouldn't be an issue.
So what's my point in all this? Stick to 1, 6 and 11 for everybodies sake. I have actually heard of some sites using four channels with, I guess, three channels of separation. So 1,4,7,10 for example. I haven't testing this and I'm not convinced it's really any better. Because the performance at three channels is about the same or a little worse than the same channel. It only starts to get better at four channels of separation, but then you have to use 1,5,9,13 and channels 12 and 13 aren't permitted by the FCC.
This is easy. Pick up a Japanese wireless router. They come with channels 12, 13, and 14. Get yourself off of everyone else's frequencies and you'll be good to go.
Alternatively, you could set up a small linux box with a wireless card and set it up as an AP on channel 13. Assuming you are using a linux desktop, you should be able to take any buffalo card and drop it onto channel 13 with no problems.
For a windows box... install the japanese drivers and you will be fine.
Almost all buffalo products have japanese equiv. models. Grab the japanese firmware and re-flash your firmware...
"Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
I regularly plug in my laptop when I have a lot of stuff to transfer, such as a full backup. Gigabit Ethernet still beats any form of 802.11.
It may seem counterintuitive, but one good way to reduce your interference to your neighbors' WiFi networks is to put more access points in your own house. This is especially true if you can't cover your whole house with a single access point. Above all, resist the antisocial temptation to get a power amplifier. Use the cellular approach instead.
Get more access points, spread them across channels 1, 6 and 11 and sprinkle them around your house. Set them all to the same ESSID and plug them into an Ethernet switch (if the access points have built-in routers, use no more than one so all the access points will be on the same logical Ethernet segment.) Your laptop will automatically hand off to the nearest access point when you move, just like a cell phone.
Even if you can cover your whole house with a single access point, having several reduces your average radio link distance and lets the links operate at a higher average speed. (802.11g runs from 1 megabit/sec up to 54 megabits/sec, depending on signal-to-noise ratio). Most WiFi transmitters run at constant power, so increasing your average data rate reduces your transmission time and the interfering energy you dump onto your neighbors for each megabyte of data you transfer.
Have a chat with your neighbours. You can all invest in a faster connection and a faster router and you can reduce those hundreds of routers down to a few. Hell, just use a few access points, feed the whole area into a single router.
If you're in that noisy an environment, your best bet is to use signal isolation technology. What it does is provide a focused signal path between nodes on your local network, generally confining your traffic to that path (so it doesn't interfere with your neighbors') and deflecting all but the strongest interference from outside signals. It's marketed under several names and it's available in different specs, but the generic term for it is "wire".
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Wireless has its uses. I will not deny that.
But I can't count the number of people who have asked me for help with their home networks, who have a cable/DSL modem, a WiFi router (often built into the modem these days), and a single PC - All sitting on the same desk (or at least within the same smallish area such as one wall of a room).
And to elaborate on the FP's example, I dealt with a situation two days ago where a friend kept having trouble with his WAP (one client and one laptop connected to it). Turns out he didn't even connect to his own AP! The laptop could see something like 15 APs, half of which had just "linksys" as the name, and only one used WEP. And on the flip side of that, he had about a dozen people randomly using his AP, over time. Really makes you feel confident in the RIAA's John Doe SLAPP suits based on IP address, eh?
The real "problem" here comes from the perception that we all need wireless (a perception not helped by the fact that most broadband providers try to convince their users to buy crappy low-end modem/WAP combos). Well, we don't! Personally, I run a 4-7 machine LAN at home, and have it totally wired for both security and reliability reasons. And for the rare occasions when I want to use my laptop outside, I do actually have a WAP, which I only turn on about four time a year.
Simple heuristic for everyone - Regardless of the number of machines on your home network, do they move? If not - Run a damned wire! Even if you mostly use a laptop while sitting on the couch, it actually takes less time to plug a 6' cable into a nearby wall than it does to connect to a WAP (though the latter you usually don't notice because it just looks like yet another part of the obscenely long Windows boot process).