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More Videogames, Fewer Books at Some Schools?

A News.com article highlights a plan that may please word-weary students: more games, fewer books in some educational settings. That's one plan put forth by some educators who feel that current learning plans don't fully engage today's classes. By offering real-world dilemmas in a virtual setting ('discover why fish are dying in a park'), teachers hope that games will turn kids onto the idea of learning, and eventually lead them back to books. The article covers several of the projects geared towards exploring this idea, as well as research on the subject. "A game designer, Salen is working with a group called New Visions for Public Schools to establish a school in New York City for grades 6 through 12 that would integrate video games into the entire curriculum. 'There's a lot of moral panic about addiction to games. There's a negative public perception, and we know we have to deal with that. But teachers have been using games for years and years.'"

9 of 252 comments (clear)

  1. I object. by sakusha · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I strenuously object to the hasty, ill-concieved rush to computerize education by turning everything into a video game. Pretty soon, everyone will think science only takes place inside a computer. Let me give an example.

    One of my favorite childhood memories was going to the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago. Up on the second floor, there was a permanent display of historic scientific apparatus, like a Wimshust Generator about 20 feet in diameter. I went back to visit it about 10 years ago, all those exhibits were gone, replaced with computer kiosks. Really BAD computer kiosks, uninspiring, ill-planned junk that had all the bells and whistles, but little educational content. I thought about the tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on developing and deploying those horrid, amateurish kiosks, and how they replaced a whole museum wing that represented the technological development of America, and I can only consider it the greatest educational tragedy I ever saw. I remember being inspired, as a little child, seeing those monuments to science, but that will never happen again. And it's a damn shame.

  2. Re:My take on this... by ClaraBow · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I agree with many of your assertions, but as an educator, I see too many students in middle school and high school who lack basic reading and writing skills. It is extremely important for students to have a strong foundation in cultural literacy and in the "basic skills" or it becomes extremely difficult for students to succeed. It takes hard work to become proficient in reading, writing, and arithmetic. It seems to me that too many young people today want everything to be fun and easy.

  3. Re:My take on this... by LBArrettAnderson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I agree. I would say that this would be a "subject to subject" thing. In English and language classes, the students should be reading and writing. In math and science classes, I think the "gaming" principal would apply better. Perhaps that would make them hate their language classes even more, but their problem solving skills would imrpove greatly. I don't know if there would be a way to incorporate the "gaming" into math and science and still allow the students to have an interest in reading and writing for their english class.

    I agree that reading and writing is much more important than math and science in the real world... unless you are going to work alone. Communication is vital to being successful, and if people think you're stupid because you can't spell, you're screwed (please don't point out any spelling errors in my post; it would be funny, but I know I'm not perfect... I'm working on that as well).

  4. Why are we doing this? by SavedLinuXgeeK · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This seems like a never ending cycle of catering to attention deficient children. Western culture is so much more media driven, than ever before, that attention spans are dwindling. There is a reason we didn't need jazz up science 100 years ago to get people interested. That is because science is interesting. If we start catering to an inability of focusing and building desires by yourself, we are more hurting the children then helping. They will get to a point where they expect everyone and everything to cater to them, especially if they show a lack of interest about something. It just seems like a bad idea. It almost seems like dropping computers altogether, and getting back to basics in a way that forces them to focus would be of utmost benefit. The only downside is the lack of information sharing that the internet brings, simulation capabilities that computers offer, and disability services that computers give.

    --
    je suis parce que j'aime
  5. Language skills are still key by Infonaut · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Reading and writing are *so* passe, but if you look at Information Age jobs, these skills are absolutely critical. Beyond jobs, literate citizens are key to a functional democracy. The diminishing of information literacy in America proceeds apace, and our cultural and political life suffers as a result. We expect less and less of ourselves, and we pass that on to the next generation.

    Games are great. I grew up playing them, and I still play them. But games aren't a replacement for the tried and true combination of reading, writing, and hard work. Wrapping learning in a sugary coating may make it taste better, but that won't make it nutritional.

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    Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
  6. Mod as Funny, not Insightful... by Pollux · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It may sound humorous, but the parent makes an important point that these educators don't seem to understand. Kids see games as entertainment, and they will only engage themselves insofar as they remain entertained. In Oregon Trail, there was always that option to "Talk With People," where you would learn historical facts and viewpoints, but that only slowed me down from getting to Oregon. The point I'm sure the parent post was trying to make was that kids only absorb information in a game when it's directly a part of gameplay, and even then, they're only snippets of information. (To be absolutely honest, I still don't know exactly what dysentery is, even though I can attribute probably 500 character deaths to it over my lifetime of playing Oregon Trail.)

    I think many educators do not understand that engagement in a game does not mean a child will be learning anything from it. Here's the difference:
    • When a child is engaged in learning, learning is the goal they set upon themselves, and they seek information to further their understanding of what they are studying. Since learning is the goal, information they find on their research brings them further to their goal.
    • When a child is engaged in a game, winning the game is the goal they set upon themselves, and they seek information to further their understanding of what they are playing. Since winning is the goal, information they find during their gameplay brings them further to their goal.

    The information you gain when playing a game is very fragmented, because you only absorb enough that you need to get you closer to winning. As the parent poster noted, you don't know what dysentery is, you only know that it's bad and it kills your characters.

    Teach these kids how to learn, not how to play a game. (Perfect example: MadTV Hooked on Phonics Parody)
  7. I object for a different reason. by khasim · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Games are written. Just as books are written. And the writer has his/her own biases.

    If you read a book, you can read two books. You can read a dozen books. You can find the biases.

    If you play one "educational" video game, you've pretty much played them all. There aren't very many. So you'll be stuck with whatever bias the person who wrote it had.

    That's not education. That's programming.

  8. Games have their place in education by Canordis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Games are a media, like books and film and images, and each media has its strengths. Books are good for teaching because (Besides touching on literacy skills), they can be read over again, at the reader's own pace; films are good for teaching because they compress information relatively densely, and are much better at giving a sense of scale or displaying events than a book (What's better? Telling people about the size of the universe, or showing them Powers of Ten?).

    Games are good for helping students understand complex systems by interacting with them. Being able to play with a historically accurate strategic wargame is more interesting, and provides a deeper insight, than just reading what happened during a war. Being able to watch small simulated lifeforms reproduce on a screen is a stunning display of natural selection. There are some subjects which are better explained through a particular media.

    --
    I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it.
  9. Re:My take on this... by miskatonic+alumnus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I agree that reading and writing is much more important than math and science in the real world...

    Your employer does too. That way he can pay you for 30 hours when you work 40, and you'll never know the difference. And let's not EVEN get into telephone bills.