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Internet2 and National LambdaRail To Merge

An anonymous reader writes "Ars Technica has the story on the rapproachment of the two main US providers of high-speed networks to academic and research institutions: Internet2 and National LambdaRail have agreed to merge. And they're moving quickly, after tussling over the details of such an agreement for more than a year. The two groups have decided to put final merger documents before their respective boards by April 20, with merger completion to take place by June 29."

44 comments

  1. excellent! by User+956 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Internet2 and National LambdaRail have agreed to merge. And they're moving quickly, after tussling over the details of such an agreement for more than a year.

    Great news. So what sort of tubes will they be going forward with in this joint venture?

    --
    The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
    1. Re:excellent! by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 4, Funny

      Who gives a flying fuck about this? What of value is on Internet2 or National LambdaRail?

      Dude, It's Internet2-on-rail. It's a major buzzword and hype innovation. Just look at the good it did to Ruby!

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    2. Re:excellent! by Bender0x7D1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well, I am. Of course, that probably doesn't matter to you. However, there are a lot of things of value on these networks, but if you aren't on a node, then the additional bandwidth isn't going to matter to you.

      Having a ton of bandwidth is great when you have to transfer GB of data between research institutions. For example, the research group I am working in now, Xen Worlds, uses Xen to provide virtual networks to students so they can have their own virtual machines to configure/use/break since root access in a physical lab is a security nightmare. At the end of the semester, we will provide all of the VM images and assignment documentation so they can be used by other universities. Since each assignment is going to require several GB of disk images and other material, I think the bandwidth will come in handy.

      It's also nice when I need to download different Linux or BSD distros. I can usually find a mirror at another university and I don't have to wait hours for the download to complete. If I am using my laptop, the bottleneck is usually the wireless connection. This means I can download and test multiple distros in one day, which keeps my work moving forward.

      --
      Reading code is like reading the dictionary - you have to read half of it before you can go back and understand it.
    3. Re:excellent! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Xen? VM images? Linux/BSD Distros? Yeah right..

      It is okay. You can admit to all of us slashdotters that you use all of that bandwidth so you can download porn. I think the following quote of yours sums up the usefulness of the Internet2 for porn, although somewhat indirect:

      I think the bandwidth will come in handy.

    4. Re:excellent! by bfizzle · · Score: 1

      I was actually looking at the list and I was surprised to find most institutions are one both lists. The university I work for is on both, so I doubt we'll see much improvement.

    5. Re:excellent! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unsurprisingly, that second link goes to http://goatse.ragingfist.net/

      Click if you want, but it ain't safe to do so.

      (posting anonymously so that I don't get shit for being stupid and clicking the link)

  2. In other news: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They were so careful to make sure one group didn't look superior to the other.

    Who gives a **ck about either of these networks?
    Now they can share Kingship of a very, very small pond.

    Wake me in 924329992349 years when this merger is relevant to me.

    1. Re:In other news: by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Who gives a **ck about either of these networks?
      Now they can share Kingship of a very, very small pond.
      Wake me in 924329992349 years when this merger is relevant to me.


      I think it's likely that someone said exactly the same thing in 1969 when Arpanet was created. Look at what it morphed into in a mere 38 years. Given that Internet2 isn't radically innovative like the Arpanet was, I think the merger could become very relevant to you n 10/15 years.

      However, the real question is, how will it grow? meaning, at which point various money-hungry telcos, ISPs and **AAs will attempt to put their greasy paws on the thing and take control of the content and/or delivery methods? Internet1 is more or less free by design, something the aformentioned organization lament over, and you can bet they won't make the same mistake twice if they can with Internet2. That's the real issue, not how fast it will go when.

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    2. Re:In other news: by Dr.+Eggman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Err, I seem to be confused about what the Internet2 is. I had thought it was merely a large, non-profit run, high-speed network among universities. I do not know of any major technical differences that evil organizations could take proprietary ownership and force everyone in the future to use it. What are these differences you seem to imply? How would they keep ahold of it? Really, how 'free by design' is the Internet1 anyways?

      --
      Demented But Determined.
    3. Re:In other news: by daeg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think it's more likely that the telcos will wait for innovation in Internet2 and commercialize it in Internet1 in some form or another. The days of huge network capacity spending, unless it's backed by heavy subsidies and tax breaks, are nearly over. The Telcos in America have little incentive to provide continually higher bandwidth. Their impending defeat with Net Neutrality will hurt their feelings too much and they will punish consumers and the market.

      The Telcos want to scream "I told you so!" regarding Net Neutrality more than any 5 year old could ever want to scream it.

      Unfortunately, there's not a corner big enough to scold them in, or a newspaper heavy enough.

    4. Re:In other news: by LurkerXXX · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Here's a huge hint for you. Internet1 used to be a large non-profit run, high speed (for the times) network among universities and military bases. In a few decades time it now under the looming threat of major telco's who want you to have to pay for both incoming and outgoing traffic, based on who is serving or receiving it, and how much they paid that telco in particular for the service of allowing traffic in/out of their network.

    5. Re:In other news: by aonic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As far as I know, what most people call "internet2" is actually the Abilene network, which is a university/corporate cooperation to build a large backbone network between all of the universities for use with data transfer. this gives the added benefit to students at those universities, because they can transfer data over the abilene network at the same high speeds. it's a standard internet backbone using IP. the reason why people get internet2 and abilene confused is due to the file sharing that students were doing (RIAA got involved, shit met fan).

      national lambdarail is slightly different. it's an ethernet network connecting all of the universities. and by ethernet, i mean OSI layer 1/2 are defined, the rest is up in the air. this means it CAN be used as an IP backbone, but its main purpose is to experiment in large scale networks (researching replacements for IP, for example, or experimenting with WDM over fiber).

      now, internet2 and national lambdarail are kind of intertwined, which is why this merger is rather unexciting. internet2 (the creators of the abilene network) are a part of the national lambdarail project. not only that, national lambdarail and abilene intersect at regional university interconnects such as the front range gigapop (where the university of colorado and UCAR link in) and CENIC/CalREN (where places like stanford, berkeley, and cal-tech link in).

      so really, to joe sixpack, who thinks internet2 is some kind of secret research network, and has never heard of national lambdarail, this seems like some kind of mysterious and intellectual coup on the intertubes, when in truth it's barely newsworthy.

    6. Re:In other news: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My point wasn't well understood.

      There exists an Internet now. Sure Internet2 started out the same way, but I don't ever forsee it or any other new network usurping the place of Internet1 for the exact same reason that we can't replace our current SPAM-prone email system with something better.

      First you have to displace the HUGE pre-existing infrastructure. It's a non-trivial task.

      Everybody is making money and everybody is using Internet1 right now. Virtually any small group of reasonably bright geeks can sit down and design from the ground-up a much better "Internet" but they'll have an impossibly difficult time convincing anybody outside their LAN party members to use it.

      These guys went to so much trouble to merge without making it look like one technology was superior to the other. It's ridiculous considering that they both exist in such a "small pond," i.e. nobody is seriously using these networks or even hardly aware that they exist.

      Imagine if a couple geeks built up two different kind of protocols for their home-grown online game that only about 50 people in the world were using. Now imagine they decided to "merge" and made a big geeky deal about how neither was superior to the other, they just wanted to be able to play with more of their friends... Of course if they really wanted to play with more people so badly, they could just get on the bandwagon with the Internet1 crowd--and maybe then their game would experience widespread acceptance and use... But hell, then they'd lose their status as uber-geeks.

      It's fine and all that they're getting together, but I think they went to too much sensitivity training boot-camp. They should just shut their pie-holes, sign the papers, and merge. No reason to spare anybody's ego because 99% of the world isn't even paying any attention.

    7. Re:In other news: by tsalaroth · · Score: 1

      Actually, they just started rolling out commercial services in some cities (including mine!).

      Fear my fat 10Gb Ether uplink!

      Fear my empty bank account for the next 8 years... :/

    8. Re:In other news: by bockelboy · · Score: 1

      Jesus Christ! You have no idea what Internet2 is, do you?

      Internet2 is a bunch of universities who go together to negotiate a bunch of bandwidth from a single Telco (Level 3, used to be Quest) for a low price. Otherwise, a university wouldn't be able to afford a dedicated 10Gbps line.

      It is then used to research network technologies and to carry experimental data. Sometimes it's used for distance education classes in high-def. Most often, it sits unused and is a penis-measurement between universities (although that will hopefully change significantly when the LHC experiments come online)

      There's nothing to commercialize, unless you are thinking about raw datastreams from particle detectors or improved TCP tuning algorithms like FAST.

    9. Re:In other news: by BeBoxer · · Score: 1

      National lambdarail is slightly different. it's an ethernet network connecting all of the universities. and by ethernet, i mean OSI layer 1/2 are defined, the rest is up in the air. this means it CAN be used as an IP backbone, but its main purpose is to experiment in large scale networks (researching replacements for IP, for example, or experimenting with WDM over fiber).

      At it's lowest level, it's a WDM network. They can provide layer 1, 2 or 3 connections to members. Each member has connection to the layer 3 IP network, which looks similar to Abilene. Members also have a separate physical port onto a layer 2 network. Using this option, you can get a VLAN directly between your site and another members site to do whatever you want on. Finally, members have the option of purchasing dedicated lambda's as well. That costs extra of course, since there is a fair amount of dedicated hardware required to provide a dedicated lambda. I2 was headed in a similar direction with the next build-out of their network, so I'm sure whatever merged entity results will provide similar functionality.

    10. Re:In other news: by daeg · · Score: 1

      I didn't necessarily mean anything from Internet2 in the short term. There's nothing of major note even for educational use yet, other than as you said, some classroom stuff and experimental data.

      I would imagine (and hope?) that will change at some point in the future, either the new stream formats or something new entirely. If nothing else, something fun to read on /. even if no one will ever use it or see it outside of a few penis-comparing universities.

  3. Lick my balls, AC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    You read it. Lick them. Coward. Lick them like you mean it.

  4. Internet2 by TheUni · · Score: 3, Funny

    Internet2? Psshhh... I'm not buying into that. Everyone knows Internet3.0 will be out in 6 months.

    1. Re:Internet2 by Zantetsuken · · Score: 1

      NO NO NO, this merger will make it either Internet2.5 or 3.0. And what does that make "the *other* new Internet" (the one about 4 days ago with Stanford guys doing the "Clean Slate" approach) - does this merger make that project Internet4.0? If thats the case, I'll just wait for Internet360 - cuz everybody knows that'll be like 120 times better than Internet3...

  5. Monopoly by Animats · · Score: 1

    So they're setting up a monopoly. Who did they pay off to get this through the FCC and the "Justice Department"?

    1. Re:Monopoly by Eternauta3k · · Score: 1

      So they're setting up a monopoly. Who did they pay off to get this through the FCC and the "Justice Department"?
      You're assuming it's a commercial service you can buy. AFAIK it's a voluntary network of universities.
      --
      Yeah. Would you choose a neurosurgeon who pokes around people's brains in his spare time? I wouldn't.
    2. Re:Monopoly by Cheapy · · Score: 1

      You're assuming it's a commercial service you can buy. AFAIK it's a voluntary network of universities.

      And you're assuming your knowledge is correct. If anyone wants free karma, now is the time to link to wikipedia.

      --
      Would you kindly mod me +1 insightful?
    3. Re:Monopoly by yabos · · Score: 1

      It's a private network they can do whatever the hell they want.

    4. Re:Monopoly by XnavxeMiyyep · · Score: 0

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

      Oh man, free karma! HERE I COME!

      --
      I put the 't' in electrical engineering.
    5. Re:Monopoly by LighterShadeOfBlack · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Monopoly? Maybe you might remember that "Internet" thing from a few years back. I think that might still be around too. Maybe that's an option.

      --
      Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
  6. Lambda - the ultimate network by Simon+Spero · · Score: 2, Interesting

    SunSITE/iBiblio has been connected to the National Lambda Rail since moving to the MCNC data centre;

    In addition to giving warp speed access to research sites, the National Rail also allows traffic for the regular Internet to be routed via providers in Atlanta at much local cost than could be obtained directly from North Carolina, making it possible for iBiblio to increase the amount of bandwidth to commercial sites to 1/2Gbps.

    When NLR and Abeline combine there networks far more campuses will be able to get to iBiblio without having to bother the real world.

    Simon

  7. Don't feed the trolls?! by frieko · · Score: 1

    Let us know when you finish your quest to locate and tag every piece of information on the internet that doesn't interest you.

  8. Re:ignorance must be bliss... by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

    I think the same can be said about your statement.

  9. Good thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's hard to tell if this is a good thing or not. Funny thing about Internet2 it's not a network. It helps you get connected to a network. Currently there are several to get connected up to. Abilene was the biggest network, and the fastest for a long time. But the key player behind Abilene was QWest. Well, since the Internet2 decided to start providing network access through Level3, Abilene is the way of the dodo now. Only problem is that the Level3 connection is more expensive. This sucks for smaller schools like the one I work for. Now, the NLR provided you with a way to get connected to an even faster network as long as you had access to Dark Fiber. If you could get Dark Fiber and a Wave Division Multiplexor, you could light up multiple 10Gb Lambdas. As many as you could afford. And that all depended on the Fiber you could get access to. Now, with the merger, will we still be able to get that 10Gb connection to the various institutions connected to the network? Will we have to pay more? From what I understood the NLR fees were much cheaper than the Internet2 fees. I personally would have liked NLR to stay seperate and blow Internet2 out of the water. Especially since we have already spent some money to get connected to NLR. Is that money just going to be wasted? It was Grant money, but still, that money could have went somewhere else if this screws up our deals. Oh well, I guess only time will tell.

  10. How Internet-1 Became Ubiquitous by pghpirate · · Score: 1

    When DARPA and NSF put together what became the Internet (merger of NSF-net and ARPA-net) in the National Research and Education Network (NREN) Act -- a.k.a. the "Gore Bill" -- Bob Kahn and Anita Jones (DARPA) and Bill Wolfe (NSF) had the bright idea of setting down some rules (really, "standards") that if other, existing commercial and educational networks (i.e., CompuServe, AOL, MERIT, etc.) played by, they could be part of the NREN as well. Even though the "big networks" at the time used slow, dialup networks, they joined. An the Internet spread with a rapidity that no one involved in the process ever anticipated. Fortunately, the TELCOs were not paying attention at the time and the genie was out of the bottle. This time, the fears that the big, rich guys will try to "divide and conquer" and control is a real threat that I for one hope is resisted. I hope the merger between these two "academic leaders" is followed quickly by appropriate legislation that guarantees open access to bigger, better pipes (bandwidth). The reluctance of the Telcos to give up their highly subsidized analog switches and twisted copper is why the U.S. is 16th in the world (per capita) in terms of broadband connections and is falling behind in networking technology. As to what this greater bandwidth will be used for? Does it really matter? It is impossible to forecast -- but you can bet it will be interesting if it isn't taken over by the advertising/marketing industry in search of more "face time."

    1. Re:How Internet-1 Became Ubiquitous by kilonad · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ummm.... no. This network is for research and education, and for those purposes only. Notice how the first one was also originally for research and education, but that it got swamped by porn, spam, and torrents when the masses came online. Keeping the two networks separate ensures a decent level of service on the research network for the people who actually rely on it.

  11. Internet2 and National LambdaRail To Merge by Skythe · · Score: 1

    Perhaps the internet is actually composed of a series of rails?

  12. Moron Computer Operator by IT073580 · · Score: 1

    How can you tell if you have a moron computer operator working for you? Answer: Find the computer operator using white out on the monitor trying to erase the mistakes.

  13. Maybe one day... by unapersson · · Score: 2, Funny

    all these different internets will merge into just one internet. To stop the confusing situation where you never know which of the internets you should connect to. My modem is always connecting to the wrong internet and I have to keep hitting it until it finds the right one. I think I need to upgrade to a rooter. Maybe a radio one.

  14. internet2 and anonymity by paltemalte · · Score: 1

    I am pretty clueless about what internet2 really is and how it works, and I have a few questions about it. Maybe some fellow slashdotter can enlighten me.

    - There is no such thing as anonymity on internet2 is there?
    - There is a central control that can yank sites they don't approve of, isn't there?
    - Are there any powerful entities that are seeking to replace internet1 with internet2 for regular people?
    - Why could we just not add more bandwidth (as is already being done), use the good old internet1 and hopefully eventually ipv6, and be happy with that?

    --
    Sam has one liberty, which he sacrifices for one security. Can you tell me what Sam has now?
  15. LambdaRail? by Fear+the+Clam · · Score: 1

    What's that, the choo choo ride at the nerds' amusement park?