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Microsoft Joins OpenAjax Alliance

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the conspiracy-theorists-activate dept.

Kurtz writes "Microsoft has joined The OpenAjax Alliance, which is focused on accelerating the use of Asynchronous JavaScript and XML, or Ajax, technologies. Microsoft said it agreed to join the alliance to work with other vendors to evolve Ajax."

23 of 104 comments (clear)

  1. Only fitting... by Niten · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well it seems only fitting, since they're the ones who invented Ajax in the first place...

  2. Embrace, extend... evolve by subl33t · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "to work with other vendors to evolve Ajax."

    Hands up, everyone who thinks Ajax is now doomed...

    1. Re:Embrace, extend... evolve by kestasjk · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Developers will soon have to pay big bucks to use ajax technologies. It's the Microsoft way.
      Spoken by someone who clearly doesn't understand the first thing about AJAX or where the first functions which initiated it were developed.

      Back in IE 5.0 when XMLHTTPRequest was an ActiveX function commentators, by the logic used in this thread, might have cried "Embrace extend extinguish! This is MS trying to remove competitors and forcing them to play catch up!".

      Years on XMLHTTPRequest is a JavaScript function which is the backbone of AJAX everywhere; Microsoft officially joins an initiative to get a more uniform AJAX platform and people cry "Embrace extend extinguish! This is MS trying to remove competitors and forcing them to play catch up!".

      I'm not saying others wouldn't have come up with it if Microsoft hadn't, but it does say something about calling foul too often and too early.
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    2. Re:Embrace, extend... evolve by Frizzle+Fry · · Score: 3, Funny

      I think the tag was originally embraceextend and then some other group decided to embrace and extend it.

      --
      I'd rather be lucky than good.
    3. Re:Embrace, extend... evolve by hachete · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why is this "interesting"?

      Look at the OpenAjax HUB:

      http://ejohn.org/blog/thoughts-on-openajax/

      This is clearly an attempt to wrest control of Ajax from the spotty oiks out there who made Ajax a success whilst Ms dropped the ball.

      "Open" my arse. Open in the sense of this dungeon door is open, walk right in. Bring your wallet with you!

      --
      Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious
    4. Re:Embrace, extend... evolve by shaitand · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is no question that Microsoft stumbled upon the function that has ultimately become the heart of AJAX. Nobody is denying that.

      Claiming that means Microsoft actually wants AJAX to be the first widespread technology that they don't hook with proprietary extensions is ridiculous. Just because they had a part in the technology existing doesn't mean they want it to be a uniform platform and play well with others. History has shown that there have been literally no instances where Microsoft has embraced an open technology and failed to extend.

      Microsoft has never been interested in making anything truly open. Be it a standard, format, protocol, or anything else. There is fairly substantial historical basis for calling foul the moment they send representatives from the dark empire to join a commitee to develop an open anything.

      The only role Microsoft will play on this committee is keeping the standard conservative and covering only core functions. That way there is plenty of room for them to extend the hell out of it.

  3. How about a link? by Per+Wigren · · Score: 5, Insightful

    OpenAjax Alliance.

    That said, I have no idea why this alliance is needed, even after reading most of their site. We already have Prototype, MooTools, jQuery and other great libraries. I'd be perfectly happy if Microsoft could just make IE fully support CSS instead of joining this buzzword-masturbating alliance...

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    1. Re:How about a link? by kjamez · · Score: 2, Informative

      don't forget the dojo toolkit, http://dojotoolkit.org/

      --
      you can't have everything, where would you put it?
  4. boon and bane by j.metasyntactic · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How could this be bad? It is a good thing that Microsoft is working with an Open Alliance, in that Microsoft will be the better able to contribute to the developments and innovations. That Microsoft money will assist in any Open system. And do it in a way that works the technologies that are already out there, and that the community has already embraced- instead of developing a proprietary system that does things in a Microsoft way, and does not play nice with others. And since it is an Open Alliance, Microsoft cannot steer the technology in a direction that would benefit Microsoft solely.

    1. Re:boon and bane by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How could this be bad?

      Do you remember how they supported Java? Lots of stalling, equivocating and Windows-only Java extensions, all while promoting ActiveX over Java. Eventually, all these actions prompted a lawsuit from Sun which Sun won. After this, Microsoft totally dropped support of their JVM in a fit of spite.

      Let's face it: Microsoft doesn't promote or like standards. What they like are proprietary technologies that only they can effcetively use.

    2. Re:boon and bane by j.metasyntactic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Undoubtedly they joined up to benefit microsoft. Any company would be foolish to throw down for any other reason. However, to assure that the technology works with Microsoft products, and to assure that Microsoft products work with the innovations that are emerging with AJAX, is within Microsoft's best interest- and therefore (in MS's idea) worthy of contributing some money and attention to. Standards are good. If an Open Alliance creates standards so that everyone's software and products work the same way when using it, then it does not matter who is funding the project. As log as everyone agrees. Not like I.E. which in many cases, ignores standards and does things in a completely different way. When doing web development we must already serve multiple stylesheet directives to accommodate inconsistencies across browsers. Miscrosoft being in on the AJAX Alliance will hopefully eliminate the possibility of needing to serve in multiplicity when using AJAX.

  5. Sweet by loafing_oaf · · Score: 3, Funny

    Sweet, now I don't have to learn AJAX. I can't wait for AJAX#.

    --
    Always someone has power over you. The thing to consider is this: Is the power good, or bad?
  6. Control by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Microsoft only seeks to control that which threatens its bread and butter.

    In this case, the concept that AJAX presents is a killer app to the bread and butter business of Productivity Software. With AJAX one can create the software one needs, and there is no restrictions on client OS other than a browser that properly displays AJAX components.

    Combine this with the idea from Adobe on sandboxing this in a wrapper for distribution away from Client/Server architecture which is completely platform independant, and you have a huge problem for Microsoft.

    They are going to try to tie specific implementations to Proprietary products (Windows, IE etc).

    Resistance is Futile.

    --
    Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  7. Re:The hole is getting deep by stratjakt · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe /. should grow up and quit personifying corporations?

    Seriously, this website serves absolutely no purpose, and has no weight in the industry. It's a place for geeks to verbally masturbate.

    Nobody goes to their boss with a proposal or idea that begins with "I read on slashdot..."

    --
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  8. *Raises Hand* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The reason why Ajax took off in the first place is because of techniques and libraries that have allowed for a *normalized* interface that strattles the inconsistencies between IE, Firefox and other browsers.

    Well, okay, mostly IE and everyone else. So count this AC in: I question Microsoft's involvement in anything that attempts to erode their hedgemony over any market space. From www.openajax.org:

    The prime objective is to accelerate customer success with Ajax by promoting a customer's ability to mix and match solutions from Ajax technology providers and by helping to drive the future of the Ajax ecosystem.

    MS is obviously joining to help ensure that IE isn't written out of the future of web applications - how they accomplish that here, especially when most ajax libs steamroll over all browser inconsistencies anyway, is beyond me.
  9. Re:they have a better Ajax by truthsearch · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Microsoft created the XMLHTTPRequest object in IE. Then other browsers implemented it. So AJAX effectively went from being IE-only to a de-facto standard. I think your point of view is backwards.

    Don't get me wrong. I hate Microsoft and they have embraced-extended-extinguished many things. But AJAX probably won't be one of them.

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  10. Corporate rubbish? by Bogtha · · Score: 4, Insightful

    John Resig, lead developer of the jQuery library, has already written about this alliance. Choice quote:

    This is all (hopefully) an overreaction. But the very fact that no non-legally-backed entities exist in the alliance (and the fact that no good corporation would sign a legal agreement ambiguously defining the status of an "organization") leads me to believe that many of today's poplar JavaScript libraries are intended to be left out of the drafting of the OpenAjax requirements.

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    Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
  11. Re:The hole is getting deep by value_added · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... quit personifying corporations?

    They hate it when you do that.

  12. JavaScript namespacing by Darkforge · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The most important advantage we're hoping to get out of OpenAjax is JavaScript namespacing. Prototype, Dojo and others will all too happily clobber each other's functions and objects, rendering them useless when used together. A consistent naming standard is one of the most immediate tangible benefits of the alliance.

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  13. SOAP-ification by hey · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Right now AJAX is pretty simple.
    Just like XML-RPC was. Then Microsoft made it all complicated and called it SOAP. Now you need a library to use SOAP because its so complicated.
    I hope this doesn't happen to AJAX!!

  14. Re:Not really by bberens · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Edison didn't invent glass, didn't discover electricity, etc. but he DID invent the light bulb while standing on the shoulders of giants. Microsoft invented ajax regardless of how blinded by hatred you are. What might infuriate you even more is that if they hadn't created active-x they would never have created ajax. Imagine that, active-x, famous security nightmare, responsible for the great and powerful ajax.

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  15. Re:The hole is getting deep by aeoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Seriously, this website serves absolutely no purpose,
    The purpose is to communicate.

    and has no weight in the industry.
    It has the same weight as any other communication -- no more, no less. When you participate in a group discussion, you are probably going to respect some people and not others. Those that you respect will influence you and that influence will carry through to your day job.

    It's a place for geeks to verbally masturbate.
    Communication venues are what you make of them. Since you say that, I have to surmise that you are verbally masturbating right now. As they say -- don't cut the branch you're sitting on.

    Nobody goes to their boss with a proposal or idea that begins with "I read on slashdot..."
    Nobody goes to their boss with a proposal or idea that begins with "I was thinking in the shower..." or "While I was taking a massive dump..." or "I dreamt about..." and yet our thinking process from dreams, bathrooms, and so on, does influence us on our day job. Of course due to social conventions you are not likely to disclose that to your boss. That doesn't mean it has no weight!
  16. Re:Embrace, Extend, Exterminate by Dog-Cow · · Score: 2, Interesting

    To quote someone or another, "you sir, are an idiot." The AC was perfectly correct in stating that XML is nothing more than an overhyped method for organizing elements of a document and that it does nothing what-so-ever to define the semantics of the elements. A CSV file has 99% of the same benefits of XML for most uses. Just about the only thing you can't do with a CSV vs an XML document is easily transmit hierarchical data.

    The fact that MS can generate an XML document that has no human-understandable elements is a failure of XML, and nothing less.